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The real reason devs are scared to make 2v8 permanent
Because they know the vast majority of casuals would never play 1v4 again, which is the mode they spent years working on to "balance" and this would damage their pride that most players prefer the chaotic fun party mode of the game instead of the boring frustration of 1v4.
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No because at least am sure at least 80% of players are glad 2 v 8 gone. Sorry I love to loop and 2 v 8 dont give that when killers wanna double tap like 2.0 knights.
The game play itself becomes stale quickly cause lets admit perks tend to make you want to try new things even if they are niche.
Post edited by buggybug on17 -
Actually, if it became permanent, the bigger worry is that they'd need to somehow attach it to the bloodpoint grind, because then grinding BP becomes even more pointless if all you ever did was play the current version of 2v8.
But I don't think they are worried about 'pride'. They're game devs in an ever changing live service market, change is built into their concept.
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1v4 solo q is unplayable, doubt most survivors are happy to go back.
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As someone who initially hated 2v8… yeah going back to normal matches has been rough.
Cant say I would not play standard matches at all if 2v8 was permanent but I started to really enjoy not having to endure obnoxious perk builds, maps and killers. The only real objection I hear from most killers about 2v8 is the queue times and that it has a negative effect on regular match queue times too
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It's over now, Sinkra. The mode is over. It will come back later. You can stop crusading about it because it doesn't matter now. Bone Chill and then what appears to be Chaos Shuffle is next, then maybe some other modes and then Blood Moon. It's going to be a good several months before 2v8 comes back, and you're gonna have to learn to live with that.
A lot of people actually don't want it permanent, and this holds true across basically every single online discussion place this community has, it's a polarizing mode and it has nothing to do with it being "better" than 1v4 which is objective statement not fact. It has nothing to do with BHVR's pride, either, because 1v4 is simply the bread and butter of the game and if you don't like it, you pretty much just don't like Dead by Daylight.It has to do with the fact that the mode simply screws up 1v4 for everyone who doesn't want to play 2v8 (for various reasons), and it has long queue times for Killer PLUS not much new to do for Survivors. It's 100% due to the queue times - casual Killers exist too you know - that this mode can't be permanent, at least not yet, not until it's 100% ironed out AND Queue times are sorted. We've been over this many times on these forums, and every time you seem to refuse to listen.
If you hate 1v4, don't complain - just stop playing, then come back when your preferred mode is on. That's what everyone else who prefers this mode has done. It's what I did when I got fed up with 2v8, I left. That's also what YOU should do, and I say this as someone worried for you about this because you seem obsessed with being in a cycle of hatred for anyone who prefers 1v4.
The mode is over, and coming back later. Please let it go.
If you do not like 1v4, nobody is holding a gun to your head. Nobody is making you play but yourself. Go play something else if you hate 1v4 so much, you're here complaining a limited mode that messes with the game's wait times on a fundamental level isn't permanent. Or, find a way to make 1v4 fun for you, if Survivor sucks that hard then might I suggest learning a Killer you like and playing without all the perks you find so sweaty? The challenge might even be fun, there's many Killer Mains who like to play that way.
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I don't think devs are scared about 2v8.
The ones who are really scared, are the people who play exclusively killer, especially those on this forum.
Because they finally realize, that for years people have played survivor not because it is "easy", but simply because it's the role that allows you to play with friends.
When the ability to play with friends appears on the killer side, suddenly everyone wants to play killer.
If 2vs8 was permanent, killers would have to get massive nerfs to rebalance queue times. Which is a complete taboo here.
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Obviously I have no official data, but based on what I've seen on the forums, it was more like 50/50 split between people who like 2v8 and those who don't.
I enjoyed 2v8 but I'm glad it's only a special event and not permanent. There just aren't enough players to support quick queues for both modes. Matchmaking is already terrible when everyone is playing 1v4, and having an extra game mode makes matchmaking even more of a disaster than it normally is.
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for me 2 v 8 is like fun for short time like we talking 1 week or so, it was super fun the 1st few days but then i got bored with it because its just not the same game i got addicted to., not even gonna talk about 20 mins queue for killers, im glad its over and im hoping for some new mode i missed in last years !
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If survivors loved 2v8 so much, why are the killer queues so bad? Even after BHVR turbo buffed the survivor role, the queues are still awful. Seems like killer players like 2v8, and survivors don't. None of the changes BHVR has implemented so far has made any real difference to the queue times.
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ppl acted like survivors were flocking to 2v8… if this were true we wouldn't had the killer queue issue… The reason why queue times for killers were 20min long in 2v8 was there weren't enough survivors…that is why the bp incentive was permanently on the whole two weeks on Suvivor bc they needed it to get survivors to play the mode XD The only group that actually liked 2v8 only really wanted to play killer…this why queue times was so bad.
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They aren't scared to make it permanent, they just don't want to destroy their own game.
A LOT of people enjoyed survivor for a very limited time. It has no variety, gets boring and samey extremely quickly and there's simply no way supply of survivors would keep up with the demand caused by killers. Then all queues are messed up again. Then there's no grind, the licensed fees for killers they've paid money to get can't be used and there would be no point spending money on auric cells. Would be an insane decision.
As for the argument of it being a casual mode. It wouldn't happen. Would be full of people sweating to stomp lobbies and just as bad as 1v4 for meta tactics. Was already happening often the last couple of days that killers would just cross map to the predictable cage spawns.
Every PvP game I can think of that tried "casual modes" has had the same result. Fifa tried it about 10 years ago with a no coin rewards mode with the idea it would be a chill game mode. It was full of people bronze benching (putting really low rated players on the bench) to bring down team ratings so they could use all the cheap meta players, sweaty meta tactics and destroying people playing casual. Was a complete mess and removed and never came back.
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Im very happy 2v8 is gone. 2v8 is fun like the fist 20 games and than its just borring and stale. The match making is none existend so the mates are even worse than in solo Q. As Killer normal and 2v8 its just 20min lobby sim and than I just kill noobs everywhere thanks ^^ In Solo Q I had very bad mates yes, but also rlly rlly great players. If you die very often in solo Q mabye its because of you and the mentality if you go in thinking, that you lose you will lose.
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This ^
Also I give another example of a PVP game that has "casual mode" OW2 quick play is filled with comp players playing matches like their rank is on the line. Always counter-swapping and using "meta" heroes to get easy wins on players who are there just to have fun and maybe learn a hero. There are even some arcade modes in ow2 that can get pretty sweaty. The fact is no matter what ppl will sweat in a pvp game bc they want to win even if winning doesn't reward them anything.
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2v8 is fun for some time but then it gets annoying with the double taps and Wraith hook rushers. (Also Huntress is insanely annoying too)
It has to stay limited time.
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2v8 is fun for a week or two but it gets old quickly and I'm glad it's gone so that queue times can back to normal and I can get back to my usual perks and characters.
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It has nothing to do with BHVR's pride, either, because 1v4 is simply the bread and butter of the game and if you don't like it, you pretty much just don't like Dead by Daylight.
Literally this.
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Here is the thing there simply is not enough people playing survivor. Majority play soloq and it's miserable. 2V8 was fun because you couldn't have dead weight teammates, it was easier t handle the killer, and it was pretty even in winning vs losing. Survivors can't be camped or tunneled (mostly) in 2v8 and even if the killers didn't they still won. My wait time in 1v4 killer was easily over 15 minutes during this time.
People don't want useless teammates, to be camped, tunneled and bodyblocked for the kill. It isn't game mechanics it's the players. I came back to soloq today and it was miserable enough to want me to quit and never look back.
The majority across forums and boards are majority of killer mains so of course they don't want 2v8. More people play killer because it's easier and they can get away with more and be lazy as well. All of you saying don't play fine we won't and then come the survivor buffs and you all cry.
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I play 75-80% survivor and am certainly not a killer main, I don't want 2v8 as it is at the moment and can see the very obvious problems with it. It's nothing to do with survivor vs killer or easier games or not.
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If 2vs8 became permanent, you'd never catch me on 1vs4 again LOL. But I can only speak for myself on that. The amount of pressure that gets put on you being on a much smaller map with only 3 other players and a killer is immense. In a way, I'm having to relearn how to do stuff again because for a while I was playing on a huge map with lots of other people to take the pressure off me and I wasn't being constantly driven off gens every five seconds. Or having to constantly go in for saves because my few remaining teammates might not.
I love 2vs8 because I just want to have less pressure put on just me to win or carry my three random teammates if they're having a hard time. I'm not team captain material or endgame warrior, I'll just put it that way.
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Sometimes I'm just mindblown by this forums ability to make every thread no matter the content, topic or context an instant "them vs us" thing.
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BHVR will do whatever makes them £££. Simple as. Your gameplay experience and enjoyment is of secondary importance. Nor are they fussed about what the community thinks/wants since overall they have a poor understanding of their own game - chaotic at times much like a game of hockey
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this is a ragebait for sure
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I agreed until you added the pointless us vs. them at the end, please don't do that. I had a rotten time both sides, personally.
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This is a honestly question I have for most ppl who are saying that survivors prefer 2v8 over 1v4. Do y'all really don't understand how queues work? 2v8 for both times it's been in the game, killer queue have been terrible (20 min waits). This is because there are more killers than survivors who are playing the mode. If what you are claiming was true where killers prefer 1v4 over 2v8 and survivors prefer 2v8 over 1v4 then why the hell survivors queue are almost instant and the BP incentive was exclusively on survivor for the whole two weeks the events they ran? To me it seems killers are the one who enjoys 2v8 more.…
As killer myself I can only speak for myself. I personally prefer 1v4 over 2v8 for few reasons and easy wins isn't one of them. One, I don't want to deal with a random teammate, you think solo survivor is bad in 1v4 well solo killer in 2v8 is pretty much the same experience. I didn't play 2v8 this time around but doing it's first run, I had so much useless killer partners that matches wasn't fun at all. I rather be by myself at that point. And two, killer queue times...as I mentioned earlier killer queue are always around 20min during 2v8...this meant I could only get maybe 3 matches in a night. This wasn't worth for me and decided this time around to not even try killer in 2v8.
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I think they keep removing and adding 2v8 back to test gameplay features and changes.
They would have put it on PTBs but the issue with PTBs is that the player pool is way too small and niche; more people play on Console than PC, and the people who play on PC are not always playing the PTB.
So the only way to meaningfully test a full-time gamemode such as this is to run it on Live Servers. Each iteration messes with queues since they dont permanently keep it up and making sweeping changes to how the gamemode functions leads to a lot of appeal for checking it out, even if for a few matches.1 -
Id think the biggest reason is terrible que times would stop people from playing over time.
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Just want to drop my casual thought:
If they make 2v8 permanent without any adjustment to killer q-times - it will be the easiest uninstall decision of my life.
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So have I but it was subtly directed at those that tell people to stop playing until our mode comes back. That's an absurd thing to say.
I have miserable experiences on both sides too.
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the queues were also 20 minutes long for killers in 1v4 FWIW
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They will continue to play 1v4 and complain about killers like Wraith and Pig being too strong, just as they did before. The devs don't want to make 2v8 permanent because that would mean having to balance it and the main game at the same time, which I'm sure they're capable of. But as with the main mode alone, they simply will not or cannot. And of course, queues would be split, and 2v8 killer's queue would never be down to an acceptable level, no matter what they did.
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I agree. As a solo survivor, 2v8 was the most fun I had in years
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As main survivor (loved Dwight), I enjoy and want more of 2v8, (I like the bigger maps with more people), but honestly, more than having the mode back right now or having it as permanent mode, I'm wishing more updates that can provide more variety to the gameplay.
I've got the same complaints than with the 1v4, but in 2v8 we have less gameplay choices, and over that, there is the issue of the hatches that I find quite anoying (many times, 4-5 partners just hiding and waiting for the hatches, and I think, if instead of hidding they were helping we could just finish the last generator and escape more than 2 people… ???)
So that's it, what I really want are more enhacements in the gameplay.0 -
This so much
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This. I would hate it, I love this game. but I would regretfully and reluctantly do it. BHVR would 100% lose me and probably a lot of others as a customer.
I do not wanna wait in 20 minute long queues to play either a downgraded stripped-down mode, OR a sweaty sweatfest of the sweatiest players alive EITHER side.
The game cannot handle both. Time to admit that even if you love lovelovelove LOVE 2v8. It cannot be permanent.
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The problem with this is that OP is all over these forums and constantly:
- Keeps begging for a mode proven to be BAD for game queues not only comes back but becomes the permanent preferred mode (subtly implying "screw you if you want to play 1v4 or any Killer aside from 8 characters, I don't care about YOUR fun only mine").
- Keeps subtly implying in those same threads that anyone who doesn't want the mode back is a Killer Main (and thus is using that term to insult and call people sweaty for no reason, creating an us vs. them situation), doesn't like fun, or just doesn't care. This despite the fact people like this mode and surprise, Killer is more popular when you can play it with a friend, because Killer is the biggest draw to this game, because Survivor gameplay is kinda boring and samey after a while.
- Insists the reason is "Killer Mains don't like fun" and "BHVR doesn't like fun they're too proud" when no, the real issue is the queue times and lack of anything for Survivor to do because 2v8 is quite simply a stripped down arcadey DBD experience. Always has been, always will be.
And that's why I directed at them. Because they're complaining about a mode that doesn't exist, is proven to be bad for the game, and prioritizes the fun of people who like this mode over the fun of anyone else who doesn't or simply just wants to play with Killers or the perks they paid for.
Most people who do like this mode and prefer it don't come here to complain about a limited mode going away (and coming back later), they simply make the logical choice to just not play until the mode they main is on, or they go back to 1v4 and deal with any sweaty games until the next mode like the rest of us. If you want to main this mode, fine, but you have to accept it won't be permanent and isn't going to come back for months, so if you truly cannot stand 1v4 you won't be playing for a while and should probably find another game.
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People like OP just prove they don't actually like DBD at its core and want to warp the game into something they do like at the expense of everyone else. It's an incredibly unhealthy mindset to have towards a game, the most literal best advice someone can give is to go and play something else they do like instead of pushing for their preferences/demands to be met where they shouldn't be.
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It's super true and then when someone comes in and goes "maybe the game isn't for you anymore and it's time to move on", rather than do the healthy thing and take a break or move on, they come here to whine and complain and continue to play a game they so obviously hate.
The Devs cannot, should not, and will not change the game to cater to your hero fantasy as Survivor, or your power fantasy as Killer. Nor should they. Questionable decisions aside, thank Entity they're more rational than some of their playerbase.
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Personally, I think if there was a mode that should be permanent, it should definitely be Chaos Shuffle. Not only do you get a random experience, where you don't have to face meta perks every game, but it is also a great casual mode, that builds on the standard 1v4 mode.
I would like for it to have a randomizer element for items and add-ons as well, as it could make things even more fun, where you really have to play to the strengths of the perks and items/add-ons given to you.Random characters could also be a thing to consider, making this mode fully random.
2v8 is fun and all, but there are some major drawbacks to it, such as killer queue times, little variation when people find the best killer combo, and so on.
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This is a honestly question I have for most ppl who are saying that survivors prefer 2v8 over 1v4. Do y'all really don't understand how queues work?Just looking at queues doesn't really answer the question because of how the game needs an 80/20% split in its player base.
If a new mode came out that attracted a million new players, and half wanted to play survivor, and half wanted to play killer, queues would break for killers even though on an objective number count the mode is popular and BHVR would be thrilled by the new players.
And because of the huge need for more survivors than killers, even a relatively small percentage wise tilt toward players wanting to play killer more can really unbalance things. If queues were roughly even, for every one survivor who switches to playing killer, four killers need to switch to survivor, and for every new killer player that enters the game, four survivors have to enter.
I have no idea what BHVR's data actually indicates, I'm just trying to point out that the queue times don't really answer this.
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"which is the mode they spent years working on"
You answered it for yourself. They've spent years creating a successful game and I doubt they would want to permanently split their time, money, and resources into maintaining two separate modes. It would be to the detriment of the successful 1v4 game they've spent years developing.
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I completely agree!! I would love Chaos Shuffle to be made permanent. I think it is the safer and easier mode to make permanent since it doesn't affect the main core of the game at all but it also offers the casual experience since both sides wont have to worry about going against meta perks every single match. Also, I think they totally should lend into making everything random, random items and random addons would further make the mode even more casual-friendly while also keeping the core 1v4 idea of the game.
In my opinion, Chaos Shuffle is a better casual mode than 2v8 bc everything is random unlike 2v8 where survivors and killers still have a choice in what they run and will pick the most powerful options given to them.
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You are into something...
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This. Jesus christ the base game mode feels HORRIBLE as a solo player after 2v8. Most killers just resort to camping, tunneling and/or slugging when there is a slightest hint that the game isn't going their way.
Of course the players who want to win will use tactics that give them wins, no matter how unfun they are/feel. The devs have had 8 years to fix this crap and they haven't.
So, when's 2v8 coming back?
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100% accurate. I would never ever ever step foot in 1v4 ever again. Once the event was over it was like....ah forgot about this miserable experience. Amazing....fewer perks...more fun. Who would have thunk it
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Because you need the double amount of killers and survivors when you already have the standard 1 vs 4, that makes 10 people in a match. Also there were killers who wanted to try it alone and a lot of them were paired up with a friend so those in solo killer would need to wait until another solo killer was available too.
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Personally I loved playing 2 vs 8, as survivor and killer. As survivor, it helped me to realize how important may be to see which perk the other survivors are picking, so they can play at their strtenghts and distribute better their roles.
As killer, it´s nice to know that someone will do another job with you as in, you don´t need to worry about breaking pallets, another killer will do the job for you while you focus on chasing and hooking.
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I don't think it's meant to be a 'them vs. us' situation. Some people primarily play Survivor, while others mainly play Killer. What I've noticed is that when people ask for unrealistic buffs or nerfs, they often use terms like 'solo' and 'SWF' to justify their requests. This creates a divide, with people aligning themselves on either side of the issue, based on their preferred playstyle.
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Fair points and I'm willing to agree with both of you on these points but this further pushes me to the idea that 2v8 can't become permanent. If what you two are saying is true then it kinda tells me that maybe dbd doesn't have the player base to support the ratio 2v8 requires and support both 2v8 and 1v4.
At the end of the day if 2v8 did become permanent it most likely led to me uninstalling the game bc how will affect the game as a whole for me. My reasons why I would most likely stop playing if 2v8 became permanent:
1: Queue times will continue to be 20 mins for killers across the whole game and even if they would get better over time we most likely looking at MONTHS for that to happen. Im not going to sit in a queue for 20min for a 5min match in 2v8 or a sweaty unfun match in 1v4. This leads to point 2.
2: Now this is based on what others have said since I took a break from Killer as a whole this time around but I heard from streamers and other ppl that 1v4 became even more sweater doing the time 2v8 was around. As someone who honestly really dislikes Killer in 2v8 since I don't have a friend to play with and I don't like having to work together with some random person who most likely won't pull their weight. I would opt to play 1v4 more since killer was the main reason I got dbd in the first play(being the 1 with no teammates) but if 1v4 is nothing but swfs who wants to sweat then I not going to have fun there either. So there would not be a place for me to just have a fun time since I don't like killer in 2v8 and don't want to play sweaty in 1v4.
As you see this is why I don't want 2v8 to be permanent bc it will GREATLY affect my fun of the game and Im sure others feel similar to myself in this fact. This why I think chaos suffer is a better mode to put into the game over 2v8 esp with you also randomizing items and add-ons. It has the same feel as a causal mode bc you wont have to go against the meta builds every match (or addons or items if they added those to be random as well) and keeps the core ideas of the game being 1v4. They could even add things like the cages to stop camping if you worry about that. I know what someone may say tho "Well we could have both 2v8 and chaos suffer" but I honestly think dbd can't handle 3 different modes and having all 2v8, 1v4 and chaos suffer would only lead to longer queue times.
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For years people have been asking for a casual mode separate from the competitive players rather than everyone being put into one queue. 2v8 is definitely casual friendly, new player friendly and is a very popular mode - it's why they have extended it both times it came out and why they brought it back so quickly after the first iteration. Based on just the comments here there are plenty of die hard 1v4 players so that mode wouldn't die if they added 2v8 permanently.
There are plenty of players for both modes, the issue isn't that there isn't enough players for multiple game modes - if they felt like it they could probably do several different game modes. The main thing that will keep 2v8 from becoming permanent is the queue times, it has nothing to do with the devs being scared. The queue times during 2v8 really highlights how unappealing survivor is when the moment people can play killer with a friend the flock to it.
Either the devs don't think they need to make survivor more fun/appealing or they don't care. I already thought it was a weird decision to only give the killer role new options in 2v8 when the first iteration made it clear they needed to attract more people to the survivor role. Now in 1v4 changing Thrill so it takes 46 seconds to cleanse a totem - sitting waiting for a bar to load or a countdown to finish isn't very fun or appealing gameplay so either you play more efficient/sweaty to counter or stop playing all together. So when 2v8 is available you have survivors leaving 1v4 for a more casual gameplay experience and you also have alot of survivors switching to killer but no killer wants to switch to survivor.
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If what you two are saying is true then it kinda tells me that maybe dbd doesn't have the player base to support the ratio 2v8 requires and support both 2v8 and 1v4.So its not the player base size per se, there are plenty of players. The problem is that they need to keep the players in roughly equal proportions. You could have a massive player base, but if you move far away from that 20/80 split queues will slow down.
Imagine there were a hundred and ten players in the game. 30 of them wanted to be killer and 80 of them wanted to be survivor. Let's say you are killer 30 in the queue. The first twenty killers will get a game, all 80 survivors will get a game, but then you have to wait for 36 survivors to finish their games, queue up again, before the next four finally give you the game you want. You could multiply those numbers by a billion, as long as you have an imbalance on the sides its going to create issues.
Looking at the history of other assyms, I think BHVR just kind of got there through a combination lucks, bribing the players, and many years of trial and error.
At the end of the day if 2v8 did become permanent it most likely led to me uninstalling the game bc how will affect the game as a whole for me. My reasons why I would most likely stop playing if 2v8 became permanent:1: Queue times will continue to be 20 mins for killers across the whole game and even if they would get better over time we most likely looking at MONTHS for that to happen.I'm not sure if it would be months. I suspect if it was permanent the luster would fade quickly on the rush to play killer and/or killers would eventually drop out of the killer role and play survivor.
However, it definitely would be an issue. Whether that would be times of a minute or two or ten+ is just guess work.
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