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So when's the Oni 180 exploit being addressed?
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Most of the playerbase is on the consoles, and the answer should never ever be "just get a PC" either.
where did you get that information? It really doesn't seem one sided to me and you also can't tell who is console and who is from epic.
Until they support M&K for the consoles these kinds of discussions will keep happening.
as I have said above. There are several killers, where console is worse playing than PC by default. Anything with high precision, or camera movement in general.
Even if you increase Oni's sensitivity by whatever means (devs updated engine, so might be possible now), most console players won't be able to manage it anyway.0 -
Well, many of those "exploits" simply make game more fun on both sides.
I would fix only those really broken, which you can't do anything against and are easy to do. I don't think Oni's flick is one of them.
And definetly with your "fix everything", do some on survivors side too…
I think most exploits are good for the game, beacuse it is simply additional thing you can learn and mess with. Basic DBD would get boring very fast to me.0 -
You mean the breakdown of the players by platform? We cannot ever know exactly numbers due to the various UEA's and such.
As a rough guide though, for DBD there's more players on the various PlayStations than on Steam for instance, say around 25% of the overall total and about 22% for Steam. Something like that. Next would be those on one of the Xbox machines and then those on Switch. Epic Store isn't too large, neither is Steamdeck, and Stadia never had that many players either before dying out.
The game is out on like 8 different platforms not counting mobile. Any sizable game that is CrossPlay is always mostly console. It just doesn't seem that way sometimes as they're less vocal here and elsewhere, generally less sweaty in mindset, and most of the content creators are on PC. All of the Fog Whisperers are on Steam as well, as is the PTB.
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I am fine with making 180 possible by whatever means. Your issue is it will make Oni unplayable for most console players, if you make sensitivity too high, because it would be suddenly way more difficult to control.
that´s the main problem
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generally less sweaty in mindset
so why should we worry about platform where people are unlikely to use something like this anyway?
Oni is simply one of killers, where console players are always going to be worse at. Nothing new in DBD and there will definetly be more killers like this.
For example I don't think Houndmaster is going to be console friendly unless they are going to add for direction swap same thing as Singularity has (so it auto aims for survivor when you switch). That simply something hard to do for console (camera flicks)1 -
Sounds as problem of a platform, not Oni. Precision and fast camera movements are console issues in general. It's not Oni specific, so I don't see a reason to approach it differently.
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It doesn't make sense to design killers most of the community cannot ever use anywhere near their full potential, because of a mechanical issue and not a skill issue.
I'm not asking to dumb down any killer or their skill expression. All I'm saying is it should not matter as much as it does for DBD which platform you happen to buy the game on. That disparity is super exaggerated when it comes to running all killers in general, and glaring for the ones you've mentioned.
The devs should want their hard work in designing and tinkering their killers accessable to all of their players. If that means adding M&K support, fine. It that means messing around with the controller sensitivities again and/or more robust setting options for them, fine.
But often they seem to take the route of changing the killers' kit to limit or outright remove these fun little things our PC cousins are so good at finding. Despite it obviously being the easiest and most resource efficient way of doing it I don't agree with that approach, and I can tell you don't either.
So we circle back to the overall problem. How do most of the players run Oni in an engaging and potent way to bring down very good survs? The devs should not accept the answer "you can't" because of your platform. The community certainly ain't accepting that answer, as this post is clearly showing.
On a side note, your forum name is most excellent! 👌 😊
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It doesn't make sense to design killers most of the community cannot ever use anywhere near their full potential, because of a mechanical issue and not a skill issue.
Well, Houndmaster is next… Realeasing only killers that are managable for console would get boring quite fast, skill cap will be simply lower than could be.
I'm not asking to dumb down any killer or their skill expression.
Removing flicks and techs in general is exactly that.
If that means adding M&K support, fine. It that means messing around with the controller sensitivities again and/or more robust setting options for them, fine.
As I said, I have 0 issues with helping console in general. Just don't nerf killers, because of console players.
How do most of the players run Oni in an engaging and potent way to bring down very good survs?
Well, just explain to me why so many people ask this about Oni, while it is true for several other killers.
Like really, what else can you do to change killers who require precision, or fast camera movement? I bet survivors would love if killers get autoaim, that's simply not realistic to ever happen.
So best bet would be spam devs asking for M&K support.On a side note, your forum name is most excellent!
Did my best
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Well, just explain to me why so many people ask this about Oni, while it is true for several other killers.
Because Oni's 180 was never an intended feature. That's why they made early strides to patch it out. Same with Chucky's 180, which was patched out quickly (except that patch actually worked). Same with Blight's old J-flick (which in the process of patching they also updated him to be playable on controller, thanks again M&M).
Yes, every killer is more difficult on controller by virtue of controller's input nature, the lack of modern settings, and certain design quirks (like Wesker's sensitivity being artificially slowed during a dash + no single digit frame flicks making followup dashes harder). But not every killer has an exploit that drastically changes the way they play that only works on one input method. Oni is the standout in this regard.
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Because Oni's 180 was never an intended feature.
So several other techs in DBD, whole looping was not intended.
Oni is the standout in this regard.
That's not true. PH is same and his flick is better than Oni's.
It's not like Oni is too strong killer, because of it.0 -
So several other techs in DBD, whole looping was not intended.
Total false equivalency. DbD wouldn't exist today if looping never took off. I think DbD would be just fine if Oni was updated.
That's not true. PH is same and his flick is better than Oni's.
Better is overselling it, and controller has (or at least had, haven't played him in a long time) a slight flick. And besides, playing him the safe way (zoning & animation locks) is hardly affected by the ability to flick harder. It's not nearly as fundamental as a shift as intended Oni is to 180 Oni.
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Better is overselling it
I am pretty sure console can't get even close to real flick on PH. If you do it right it makes it basically unpredictable, because you don't see any animation.
But that is definetly enough, so Oni is not really only killer with high DPI flick.
Total false equivalency. DbD wouldn't exist today if looping never took off. I think DbD would be just fine if Oni was updated.
But Oni would not be fine. Oni would be very bad killer, if he was capped at 90 degrees. It would be so easy to avoid on most loops.
Funny to say it's not equivalent, simply because it doesn't affect you. I am sure survivors would be fine without all techs, they would just be way more boring.
All techs in DBD are not intended features. Your difference is only with how many players fix would affect.0 -
But Oni would not be fine. Oni would be very bad killer, if he was capped at 90 degrees. It would be so easy to avoid on most loops. Funny to say it's not equivalent, simply because it doesn't affect you. I am sure survivors would be fine without all techs, they would just be way more boring.
Hence the care I put into word selection in the title, and my first reply to someone in this thread stating I wouldn't mind if they made the 180 a basekit feature that also works on controller.
I don't care what they do to it. I care more about them fracturing any illusion of consistency they have with regards to addressing killer power exploits, especially when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now (given that their powers behave very similarly on an end-user level). Nerf it, buff it, add MnK support to console, add a flick stick option for controller that bypasses the intended turn cap…I don't care. I care that BHVR has ignored the topic entirely. For years.
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Hence the care I put into word selection in the title, and my first reply to someone in this thread stating I wouldn't mind if they made the 180 a basekit feature that also works on controller.
And I have stated several times, I don't mind that, or M&K support.
I basically don't care as long it doesn't affect the killer directly. Simply don't nerf killer, because of console players.I care more about them fracturing any illusion of consistency they have with regards to addressing killer power exploits, especially when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now
Nooo, it's not just killer power exploits. If you want to care, then do it properly and complain about ANY exploits. But for some reason people like to cherry pick a lot.
when a direct comparison can be made with Chucky now
I mean, Chucky can still get those downs, because he is 3rd POV killer, so he can look directly into the wall and 90 degrees is enough when you reach corner. That's not true for Oni, because unlike Chucky, you can't see anything in that situation.
Also Chucky has access to his power whole game (low cooldown), has undetectable and 3rd POV is bascially additional power. So how did you say it: "Total false equivalency".0 -
Nooo, it's not just killer power exploits. If you want to care, then do it properly and complain about ANY exploits. But for some reason people like to cherry pick a lot.
Yeah no, nobody in their right mind is that anal about DbD in 2024 unless they've got an extrinsic motive or they're new enough to not be jaded. I certainly don't have the time, energy, nor financial inclination to sit here all day complaining about every little exploit in DbD. People are allowed to choose their talking points, and talking about controller related issues in DbD is enough wasted time for one lifetime considering it only ever bore fruit (directly) once.
And I can see what you mean about Chucky, the 3rd person thing is a fair point in terms of balance, but I doubt they even considered it as a reason when they were patching the 180 out. I've already said what I needed to say about this before. Said about all I needed to in this thread on the first page come to think of it.
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It would be good to see a world where you could actually get chased by oni and it be a back and forth/skillful encounter. Right now if you are a decent oni, its virtually impossible to get looped when ur in your power. That being said, I tend to agree with others that perhaps he would need strength somewhere else in his kit to compensate. He is currently a great killer, but not op by any means. I think this problem would require a handful of rebalancing changes to implement.
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I certainly don't have the time, energy, nor financial inclination to sit here all day complaining about every little exploit in DbD.
Nah, but you can make generic post, listing all exploits on both sides asking to remove them. But for some reason almost all posts I see are asking for specific killer, so I guess people just die to it and go complain on forum.
Like there are exploits that should be fixed, but Oni's flick is not one of them imo. Basically exploit needs to be really gamebreaking (without counterplay) and easy to do to be removed.People are allowed to choose their talking points
my talking point is don't be a hypocrite. Quite simple…
I can see what you mean about Chucky, the 3rd person thing is a fair point in terms of balance, but I doubt they even considered it as a reason when they were patching the 180 out
Most likely not, but that fix simply didn't affect his overall performance that much, so it didn't need additional changes with it.
I don't think that would be true for Oni at all. His performance and pickrate would drop and changes to "balance" would simply make it worse for both sides imo.
Main reason is simply they tend to fix techs(exploits) only on killers, where they are doing additional changes anyway. Which are usually new killers. I don't really think Oni needs any changes, so he should be safe.0 -
(Something Cool Exists But Only For PC) ⇒ "Wow, this is an exploit, we should remove it."
VERSUS
(Something Cool Exists But Only For PC) ⇒ "This should be added as a feature and should be made possible on all platforms because it is cool."
(It goes without saying, I obviously support adding this as a feature, not everything is "le bad" and needs to be removed since it makes the game stale and removes fun aspects from the game.)5 -
A reasonable take.
You're not demonstrating that you really understand what my stance is and my interpretation is that you brought a lot of pre-conceived notions and biases into the convo from the get-go so I don't even know how to respond. If you think having a particular focus when I've said nothing substantial about other exploits is hypocritical then call me a hypocrite I guess.
I won't be responding to the next reply. It's a waste of my time.
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I like this as well.
The problem arises when cool or useful things cannot be ever done with a controller in DBD. Then we run into the issue of fairness not only to console but to our PC cousins possibly losing the thing because of those forced to use controllers. The PC players have done nothing wrong in these instances themselves.
Post edited by JPLongstreet on1 -
Having your whole team go from full health to 4 slugged in under a minute by an uncounterable-in-chase insta down power isn't "fun" to play against in the slightest.
If you're afraid of his skill expression being ruined, then keep the extra turning but shrink the 180 degree hitbox. Full turning control and giant hitbox is a broken combination (see Victor) so pick one or the other.
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this is not about PC vs. console, this is about mouse + keyboard vs. controller. So maybe instead of complaining about a tech that raises skill ceiling of the killer, you should be complaining about dbd not javing keyboard + mouse support on console :D
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Been asked for many many times over the years, and every time the answer is sadly they have no plans to.
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It's not about either, it's about a bug that hasn't been officially noticed in years. And as JP pointed out, we have been asking.
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creepers in Minecraft came out as a bug.
Combos in fighter games came out as "unintended features" and people developing those decided to keep them and expand them.
Bunnyhopping and surfing in CS games came out as bugs at first and they eventually became features.
Spy class in TF2 wasn't intended at first.
It's really a time to hop off the train of hating some "unintended" features exploits and asking devs to patch them out simply because "console fellas can't do it", you are simply asking for removal something that unironically gives more depth into the game and adds another layer of skill expression, compared to literal exploits that actually shouldn't have been in the game at all, like locker exploit, Oni's lunge while carrying a surv etc.
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Dude just read my other replies in the thread to understand my stance, I don't have time for this.
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dude, it's not an Oni doing 180s that makes your team ending up getting slugged as a whole, it's you and/or your teammates giving him first hit literally first minute into the match and usually not resetting at all.
Having your whole team go from full health to 4 slugged in under a minute by an uncounterable-in-chase insta down power isn't "fun" to play against in the slightest.
If you're afraid of his skill expression being ruined, then keep the extra turning but shrink the 180 degree hitbox. Full turning control and giant hitbox is a broken combination (see Victor) so pick one or the other.
again, Oni has one of the strongest powers in the game overall that is bottlenecked by requirement for him to earn it. You are not getting stomped because player knows how to 180, you are looking for a coping mechanism to make up for mistakes you and your team made to lead him into a position where he can consistently use his power and snowball.
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i've read whole thread, it's basically just a "if it's not possible on console, disable it on PC" rant. And by your logic, Oni as a whole would need to be tweaked because he is overall very difficult to play on console
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With maps being in their current state, "just never get m1'd for the entire match" is not reasonable counterplay.
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Fomo, I guess. All these people saying a killer is strong, but when you play them they're weak, because of your choice of platform, not because of your own skill. In a way, yeah, it'll be fun when nobody can do it. That way, a killer will take actual skill, and not be nerfed over and over due to their power on PC. Or give consoles better sensitivity, yeah. It's silly they haven't just done that.
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who said anything about not getting M1ed whole match? All you literally have to do is have a good first chase and either force him to overcommit or leave. If you manage to give him 1st hit less than 20s into the chase + your team is allergic to gens + nobody resets at all/resets at the wrong place in wrong time, ofc yall will lose
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A few years back they doubled the sensitivity using a controller, and then stated that's the limit for DBD. Hence the continued requests for M&K support.
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