Is DBD currently survivor sided?

This is true, and really the only thing that needs tweaking on that front is toolbox repair speed. Then gens should be nicely balanced, perfectly even. Items shouldn't be stronger than perks.

People that play the game in the first ~50-100h - > killer sided.

Regular public lobby - > rather balanced.

"high mmr" - sweat lords and comp people - > survivor sided.

Freddy will struggle to get 1 hook at the highest level. And Blight only wins that much because he constantly gets hits he shouldn't, because of PC sensitivity. Without that, he may as well be Freddy.

Agree. As killer if I go up against a good coordinated survivor team, I will struggle to get 1-2 kills. If survivors are average to poor, 3-4K wins come pretty easily. When I play survivor, even in solo queue it's usually competitive if my teammates are competent with good situational awareness and can last in chase without getting downed immediately. I also regularly get matched with brand new players and horrible teammates due to non-functional SBMM. Nobody escapes in those matches.

If Dead by Daylight had a replay function like Overwatch does, people would be able to put their replay codes up for guidance on what they did wrong. Maybe then we'd see less over exaggerating of people's matches.

You cant point to the "exact same kind of streaks and challenges on survivors side" when that number is not in the several hundreds or even thousands of win streaks(Supaalf).


Go ahead and point us to the win streaks [comparisons] emphasis on sample size and "s" though and it will become apparent there is one side clear out in narnia with several hundred for kill streaks and the other is barely reaching 20 escapes

I never understand why people try to use the "killer potential win streak is higher" perspective when its apples to oranges. Even the best coordinated groups will always be less coordinated than a single killer. Even the best teams are not sharing consciousness like the borg. Killers have a lot for one person to keep track of vs having 4 people to share important data, but they are only limited by their memory and strategy in that case, while 4 people need to both coordinate and play perfectly to reach the same level of consistency potential. One player having an off game or a connection issue or anything is all it would take for the other 3 to lose the streak alongside them.

I get the "big number scary" intention behind said comparisons, but its always important to weigh potential vs actual strength. Very few killers will get anywhere near the records for multiple killers, especially the ones with high skill potential/requirements.

Right, because again, he goes on crazy difficult challenges. My point is that even handicapping themselves they still manage to go on big 30-40+ win streaks. There are survivor teams that have gotten hundreds of wins in the past by playing the best stuff, it exists on both sides.

In addition to this: didn't Otz have a video that his survival rate over a lot of games was basically 40%? I haven't seen it, but I know it gets referenced in a Hens video that tends to come up a lot.
Edit to add: Also, the only really survivor streak I'm familiar with Otz trying is hardcore survivor and they start fresh accounts for that, so they get lots of matches at brand new MMR.

I see, so when we balance the game, we balance around the average survivor player, but the best killer players? Makes sense.

Yup his soloQ test over like ~300 games he got to about 39.X% escape rate.

Theres a chart out there for it let me see if I can find it

Found it:

https:/bit.ly/soloqdata

Not sure where all the discussion is around it, lotta videos and too many channels, but he made videos about it a year ago. Talks about how even trying his hardest it usually ended up in a loss.

You are missing my point.

At the HIGHEST levels of play, the game is survivor sided, at the LOWEST level of the play, the game is killer sided. At the average level, it is relatively balanced but swings heavily from 1 side to the other based on RNG, the map, what perks people bring, the killer played etc.

When killers do these "crazy win streaks" they are playing in matchmade games, against the AVERAGE PLAYER, so a top 0.01% killer is playing against the "average" survivor player. Which is more about the skill differential in the players, not the actual killer role.

Yeah, sometimes RNG factors into play and survivors are 4 players, so there are 4x as many opportunities for one of them to make a game ending mistake for the team. Which is why survivors typically are going to go on smaller streaks, more opportunities for mistakes. But the reality is that the "Average player" is generally pretty bad at this game, which is clear from the data.

When you look at comp matches, they impose a ton of rules to more balance the game and remove unfair elements. On the survivor side, a ton of perks are banned, you can't have duplicate perks, a bunch of item addons are banned, you can't bring the same items, etc. On the killer side, they basically just ban a handful of perks, things like mori, and myers tomestone. They also often create separate scoring systems, and its usually less about kills vs escapes, and more about team vs team (I.E. Team a has a killer player and a survivor team, and they go against Team B, and its about how many escape against Team A vs Team B not, oh well the killer wins because they got X Kills). This often results in things like Team A gets 1 kill because they hard tunneled the guy who didn't have DS, and Team B gets 2 kills because they did the same, and also got a good NOED spawn, so Team B ends up winning. Its an entirely different system.

And the data that BHVR releases clearly shows this. Unless you are going to look at the data and honestly tell me that nurse is one of the worst killers in the game, and needs to get on a much high level like killers like freddy and pig. And that is looking at the "high mmr" stat that BHVR releases.

When i talk about "high level play" i'm not talking about whatever the hell BHVR thinks "high MMR" is. Because obviously their idea of "High MMR" is not looking at the best of the best players, otherwise it would clearly show nurse being the best killer in the game.

The main point is. If you took the best survivor team in the world, and put them against the best in the world for each killer and had them each play 10 matches. Most killers would struggle to break the 50% kill rate, with the exception of maybe nurse and blight. With many killers probably never winning any games, and probably only getting a number of kills you can count with 1 hand.

You are being so disingenuous at this point. I literally said they exist, Team eternal has done major win streaks before. I'm pointing out that the argument of win streaks itself is just a bad argument anyway. I would like you to make some counterpoint to what i just said though and stop strawmanning. Otherwise if you are going to be disingenuous i'll just disengage because no point in having a discussion with someone who wants to argue in bad faith.

You even proved my own point, by arguing that the people going on those win streaks are survivors with comp experience and 10k+ hours. Which is literally what my point is, but ok.

Also, this entire thread is literally about "balance" its asking the question, is this game survivor sided. By definition that is a question about balance.

Its not they are just changing topic since their original point held no weight and was a bad comparison and trying to distance themselves from it.

Its talking points that they hope people know 0 specifics about and just accept, but unfortunately I do :D. (its not like this stuff is not on the internet)

Best to just move on as there really is no point and they know it.

Because you are comparing win streaks in matchmaking, which is a different thing. Please take a look at the comp discord. There are tons of rules and bans for specific killers. Like you can't bring a ton of stuff against clown for example, or must play on certain maps. Then look at the killer perk ban list, and its so much smaller compared to the survivor one. There are reasons for that.

When killers go on big win streaks, you'll see they often will play matches and say "oh my streak is paused right now because i'm playing more chill" and they "unpause" the streak at various times. Streaks are meaningless. Please look at what i said.

At the HIGHEST LEVELS OF PLAY this game is survivor sided. At the LOWEST LEVELS OF PLAY the game is killer sided. Nothing you have said attempts to refute that, you just keep bringing up win streaks in matchmade games which have nothing to do with what i'm talking about.

At the highest skill level the game is survivor sided, except against similarly skilled folks playing meaner killers (Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc). The type of person to care a lot about the balance in the game is generally the highly skilled competitive type, so… that's why the shorthand answer is usually 'the game is survivor sided'.

It's not such a simple question, though. And outside of those circumstances it's quite a toss up, depending on what killer we're talking about, the skill levels, the maps, whether players have comms, and to a large degree what strategies are 'on the table' for each side (genrushing, tunneling, or more specific killer tricks like basement trapper).

Unfortunately, I think the more apt question is which side has more 'un-fun' moments or strategies that are miserable to the other side.

Y'know. Things like getting slugged for 4 minutes because the killer wants a 4k/mori. Downing someone in an area of the map where you literally can not carry them to a hook in time (cough badham's basement cough). Going up against a full SWF who are all running exponential, flip flop, break out, and boil over. Playing against a ghost face utilizing knockout whose intent from the start is to win via bleedout. Trying to finish a game against the last two survivors who are both hiding and playing for hatch. Playing against Chess Merchant. Having a Legion Moment. Getting put into a match where your entire team intends to throw from the start for tome challenges. Getting flamed in the postgame chat by 3-4 people who were in a bully squad.

Honestly I'd say soloqueue puts up with the bulk of that. Easy as it is to write it off as nothing but a temper tantrum, It's why there's such a 'gg going next' mentality. Killers get their fair share, but their equivalents are either less miserable or at least have a chance for counterplay or flashy turn-arounds.

I care less about balance and more about this.