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Global hook stages to solve tunneling

MrChoppa
MrChoppa Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3

I think i have a pretty good idea how to change the game in order to adress tunneling. Here's what I think we should do:

How would it work:

  • Instead of hook stages being counted for each survivor individually, they are counted globally for all survivors in match
  • What happens to survivor put on hook depends on global counter of hook stages before that occures:
    • 0-3 hook stages: hooked survivor goes into Summoning Phase (one where you don't need to struggle and can attempt to self-unhook)
    • 4-7 hook stages: hooked survivor goes into Struggle Phase (one with skillchecks)
    • 8-11 hook stages: hooked survivor is sacrificed
    • hook stage progress (timer) of survivor hooked works as it does now
  • What happens when hook stage duration runs out (due to timer, self-unhook attempts or failing skillchecks):
    • another hook stage is added to counter
    • hook stage progress is halted and survivor is given option for automatic self-unhook regardles of phase – similar to anti-camp mechanic (this is made so a single survivor won't burn through all available hook stages on a single hook)
    • if current hook stage counter (after adding one) is greater than 7, then survivor is sacrificed instead

Pros of this mechanic:

  • killers will be unable to eliminate one survivor early by tunneling (targeting a weaker link in a team is still possible and viable, but would have much lesser impact on the team of survivors)
  • camping also takes a hit, as survivor can stay on hook for longer and eventually have certain self-unhook option at the cost of extra hook-stage, allowing team to focus on gens if they figured out killer is camping heavily
  • slugging somewhat takes a hit, as even if you slug 4 survivors, at least some of them can be given self-unhook option at cost of extra hook-stage
  • this mechanic should help solo queue and low to mid mmr survivors propotionally more than swf and high mmr, as it requires less coordination than protecting survivor on death hook
  • rather easy to implement for devs

Things to consider:

  • this mechanic would be a big buff for survivors, so killers might need to be buffed accordingly to keep balance
  • new Taurie Cain perk – Shoulder the Burden would need to be completly reworked, but other perks and mechanics should work as they do now
  • killers might be more likely to try to bleed out survivors as it would be the only way left to eliminate them early from Trial, so BHVR might need to think of someway to nerf this strategy
  • troll survivor might „farm” hook stages, but it should still have less impact than troll survivor killing himself on hook early
  • might need some mechanic to limit the time a survivor can willingly linger on a hook

That's my proposition. I think it would be fun and healthy change to DBD, as tunneling would be pretty much solved, swf would have more fun as teammates would not need to wait so long for their friend that was sacrificed early. Killer would probably be more fun too, as instead of trying to bully one survivor, you can focus on chases and maximalizing hooks.

The idea of hooks becoming deadlier the more hooks already happened can be explained as The Entity becoming more powerfull/hungry/greedy with each hook. As for UI, we can just give survivors the hook counter that killers currently have. Maybe slap some colors on it to indicate which hook stages do what - for example yellow for early 1-4 Summoning hooks, orange for mid 5-8 Struggle hooks and red for late 9-12 Sacrifice hooks.

Comments

  • MrChoppa
    MrChoppa Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3

    Being sacrificed on your first hook is exacly what happens when killer tunnels out people early and you're left alone in trial. With global hooks the game shouldn't be ending early, as chasing unhooked survivor will much often not be worth it, especcially with all the protection for unhooked one that are in the game.

    And Shoulder the Burden will just feel awfull to survivors when they don't take in that one match when they needed it, and will feel awfull to killers when in that one match when you need to tunnel someone out and another survivor just happens to bring it.

  • sanees
    sanees Member Posts: 653
    edited November 27

    Yeah, let's cut tactics instead of starting to encourage handing out hooks

  • buggybug
    buggybug Member Posts: 470

    Wow just seriously wow.

  • CrossTheSholf
    CrossTheSholf Member Posts: 316

    Ah yes, that won't make things Sweatier at all

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,883

    That would only cause more issues. Getting killed on your first hook would feel way worse than having your teammate tunneled out, so this isn't a good solution.

    This would also mean, that killers would always go after the weak link because even if they don't die their teammates will not get a chance to delay them. Another issue is that hooking already becomes less of a thing because many killers more focus on slugging. That might actually become worse, if they ever did something like this.

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 380

    Tunneling does not need to be "solved", It is one strategy among others that exists in the game. That's it.

  • CrypticGirl
    CrypticGirl Member Posts: 709

    People need to start asking themselves WHY the killer feels the need to do those strategies, and I will tell you right now that its not as simple as "they're just bad".

    WHY do Killers need to tunnel? You're right, they don't do it because they're bad. They do it because they can. That's it.

  • BugReporterOnly
    BugReporterOnly Member Posts: 622

    Yes and no. There are times when it is a strategy like 2 or less gens left but right at the start? That's the issue and that should be addressed but not as the OP is saying it should.

  • Anti051
    Anti051 Member Posts: 691
    • Killers are pressured to "tunnel" because they're under a strict time crunch.
    • Killers are pressured to risk "slugging" to create more time and/or because hooking is more detrimental than beneficial to killers at this point.

    This goes double for the weaker killer kits.

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,273

    I hope bHVR adds a perk at some point that causes all Survivors who have it share hookstages. That is all.

  • coldflame
    coldflame Member Posts: 45

    i guarantee you that if you got what you wanted you would nevver see a hook again when matched with a competent killer

  • MrChoppa
    MrChoppa Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 3

    That is also a strategy that is really unfun for the other side. And also one that makes balancing in DBD bad coz you either get an early kill to gain massive advantage, or you don't get it and you're kinda screwed.

    Slugging, sure, is also a problem, and could get somewhat worse with what I propposed, but it's an issue that needs tackling on its own. Let's fix one major issue with the game at a time.

  • Valimure
    Valimure Member Posts: 125

    ...this encourages tunneling even more.

    If I absolutely must get every single hook state to have a chance at winning the game, why would I bother spreading out those hooks when I can chase the same terrible looper over and over?

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,979
    edited December 4

    Can ask the top players in the world as well as tournament rules - sometimes tunneling is necessary. Survivors have a LOT of power over killers. The game is designed where if hooks are evenly divided, a LOT of killer selections will lose (especially m1 killers without map traversal abilities).

    Want to see ONLY nurse/blight/spirit for the rest of the game's life? Remove tunneling entirely.

  • Oputeeva
    Oputeeva Member Posts: 154

    Dear, all we need is teleporting hooks from 2v8 (but sabo saves should stay) and catch up mechanic from there, this will solve 70% problems

  • Hanuka5
    Hanuka5 Member Posts: 162

    I think thats an interesting idea,

    This is an interesting Idea, if i can add something to it:

    Reduce the maximum Lifes of the survivors to 1 (so dead at the 2nd hook), the first 4 hooks are "global hooks" and doesnt count to a specific player.

    So the first player dies earliest after 6 hooks, latest on the 9th hook.

    given option for automatic self-unhook

    Not a fan of "self-unhook" since this removes an important element of the game: the Teamplay.

    camping also takes a hit

    Is camping still a thing? I play mainly killer and i thought it would be dead after the anti-camping mechanic and increasing the hooktimer to 70sec, so he needs to be at least 15m away or you can wiggle yourself out. And alone while guarding the hook you loose at least 3gens, maybe 4. If you need a bit longer for your chase you might loose all 5

    this mechanic would be a big buff for survivors, so killers might need to be buffed accordingly to keep balance

    The Question is do we want that? Thats allways the question because DBD will fix the winrate (around 60% killer) and keep the balance. Lets imagine for a moment that Survivors could not heal themselfs anymore, how big do the buff have to be so they still escape 40% of the time?

    Same with here, do we want a killerbuff that even without tunneling the winrate stays the same?