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Will there be Shoulder The Burden changes in hotfix 2?
Will there be Shoulder The Burden changes in hotfix 2?
BHVR already made an official announcement that Thrill of the Hunt will be changed in hotfix 2, but didn’t say if hotfix 2 will have Shoulder The Burden changes?
Comments
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Why would there be?
Thrill's in a different situation to Shoulder the Burden, they aren't linked in any way.
37 -
is this perk actually a problem? I never see any of my teammates bring it and I don’t own the character
10 -
They already nerfed it just before hitting live server by increasing exposed duration to 40s, why should it be changed again?
Post edited by Jacknalls_Paw on8 -
Shoulder the Burden is not a problem like Thrill is.
28 -
don't see it much in solo q. The few times I've brought it I've gotten little value because I end up being chased first, teammates unhook before I can use STB, etc.
par the course for so called 'game breaking' perks that only affect game balance for swf or high mmr, relatively meaningless in solo q
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Shoulder the Burden is a bad perk
Thrill is making the game incredibly one-sided due to how it works with totem builds and screaming interactionsThey are not the same thing
24 -
For what reason? Being unable to tunnel against a 4 man SWF?
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For what reason and what about it do you think should be changed?
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no. shoulder the burden is S-tier perk. it is different league compare to thrill.
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Yes. I’m still seeing many games where multiple survivors are using this perk in coordination:
Sometimes one of the survivors has a bunch of chase perks, and they 100% want you to be tunneling them because they will have the longest chase times. So if the killer tries to chase someone that has zero hook states, the chase perk survivor will start aggressively bodyblocking because they want to take multiple chases, with the knowledge that their teammates would stack STB on them.
SWFs are weaponizing this perk, because the perk can be stacked multiple times on the same survivor.
STB should be a high risk high reward perk, but against many M2 killers it's a low risk perk, because those killers can't properly take advantage of the survivor being exposed.
STB should make the survivor broken instead of exposed, so it can be high risk against these M2 killers.
5 -
As much as I hate this perk, I don't think changes are necessary, at least rn. Definitely not as important as Thrill.
3 -
SWFs are weaponizing this perk, because the perk can be stacked multiple times on the same survivor.
It is with staggering consistency that forum killers say something along the lines of 'anti-tunnel is fine, so long as I can tunnel through it'.
This perk being stacked on the same survivor is only a problem if you constantly go for that same survivor.
25 -
Thrill needs it more, but I think it's stupid you can even bring four of StB, I would like to see it have an activation condition like Dead Hard or at least, deactivate in Endgame.
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Lol what more do you want from it? You can only use it once and you're exposed for 40 seconds? Should it make you hindered and broken for the entire match too? Like we got 1 decent perk in the last 5 dlc's and you want it nerfed into oblivion.
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That's unironically the exact change that should be made. Only one use per round.
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This is the worst design to further widen the gap between SoloQ and PT, so it was never a park that should have been created in the first place. Naturally, it is designated as prohibited in the competition scene without question.
2 -
Why is that, though? No matter the number of times it gets used, there's a hard limit to how far it can stretch the game. Stacking it on one target is only an issue for tunnelling, but if we're nerfing anti-tunnel to protect tunnelling, what's the point?
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I’m not sure what they could even do without completely reworking it.
Like, extending the exposed effect would at some point make it a net negative perk. And the only other option is removing the main functionality of the perk.
It’d be like way back when, when NOED didn’t have its exposed effect until you got it to tier 3.
2 -
No you didnt. You decided to play with friends.
11 -
Just chase the others. —> Dont tunnel one guy. Problem solved. The perk even shows who took the stage.
13 -
it's survivor thing. survivor will defend it saying nerf tunneling. It is unlikely to get any changes. all you can hope is that thrill doesn't get much of change. shoulder of burden set negative precedent for killer because the killer now need to be balanced around 9 and 10 hooks(12 hooking) instead of 7 hooking. Lots of killer are not balanced around 12 hooking. they're balanced around efficient tunneling.
1 -
Of course you can be casual.
6 -
Considering even high MMR 4-man swiffers don't hit 50% escape rate, it's more like playing swiffer levels the playing field, whereas soloQ is massively disadvantaged.
Also, you can absolutely play 4-man swiffer and be casual because plenty of 4-man swiffer 'comms' consist of incoherent yelling and such quality call-outs as 'He's here, he's here!' and 'yeah boiiii'.
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I’m still waiting for the shoulder the burden buff. It’s ridiculous that it got nerfed. It’s such a bad perk.
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Because Survivors shiuldn't be able to control ALL the things Killers use to pressure. What if there were a perk that did this for Killers and randomly added hookstages to someone with the most stages? Still fair?
It wasn't a good perk idea and shouldn't have come live.
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Because Survivors shiuldn't be able to control ALL the things Killers use to pressure. What if there were a perk that did this for Killers and randomly added hookstages to someone with the most stages? Still fair?
Those aren't even close to comparable, my guy.
It'd be more like transferring a bunch of gen progress from one gen to another, but then making that other gen gain double progress for a while in compensation. Does that sound like a good killer perk to you?
Even saying he's here and knowing what area the killer is, is a massive advantage.
Not if you don't know where your teammate is. 'Here' is a useless descriptor.
Also, you're asking the killer to discern the quality of your communications and play accordingly which is not a possible task.
I am doing no such thing. YOU made the assertion that all swiffer is non-casual, which is obviously false.
Beyond that, swf stats include those not on coms so are fairly useless.
You literally just asserted that there are NO swiffers that aren't on comms.
Not to mention, they DONT hit 50% escape rate due to what? Tunneling as a tactic against them. Remove that and they are hitting probably 65-75% rate.
As evidenced by what?
11 -
How do people still not understand how the perk works?
StB doesn't add, remove, or otherwise alter the total number of hook stages in the game, it just moves it to another survivor. That's it.
The perk even tells you when it activates, tells you which survivor did it, and makes the unhooker an insta down for you for 40s. At this point, do you need an aura or a neon sign?
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it’s amazing how some of you always seem to think that something happening to a killer perk means something should also happen to a survivor peek and vice versa. Thats not how balancing works. Thrill was massively overbuffed to the point of being broken without ever being tested on the PTB first to see what its effects would be. Thats why thrill is being pulled back because it’s broken and necessary. Shoulder was tested on the PTB and nerfed before going live.
Youre not entitled to a survivor perk nerf just because an overbuffed untested killer perk is being fixed.
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Considering DS got nerfed because killers couldn't stop themselves from slamming their faces into it, I think they might need that neon sign, yeah.
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Let's play devils advocate and say that they are on comms.
Does that help a player with 5 hours or a player with 5000h? People with a lot of experience can use extra informal a lot more than people with less. However:
Does it matter?
Peoplw log on to play a few rounds with friends. More often than not these people don't take the game very serious and throw because of that.
They play with friends. They have fun. They have fun escaping and they have fun dying. At least they do it together and that's what matters.
Of course there are people that do not share this sentimentality and to be completely honest here, these people should try to reevaluate their values.
Is the 4man swf on comms, when played at the most optimal level, the strongest thing in dbd? Yes. I'm convinced they are. Are these groups common. Absolutely not. The majority of swf are just friends having fun… in a GAME.
Life is awful enough already. Games bring people together and offer escapism like few forms of media can provide. Playing with a friend in dbd provides this form of escapism.
To end this, because I feel like I derailed a bit sorry, think about why you hit start start button the next time you want to play dbd, or any game for that matter. It can help.
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If a player uses STB and the killer throws them on a hook, it should be fine to tunnel that person because that is supposed to be the "high risk" part of the "high risk high reward perk".
But when a survivor uses STB, then has STB used on them, it massively lowers the "high risk" part of the perk, because their 2nd hook state was removed.
1 -
Okay.
But who's going to take the risk for the guy that used STB on the STB user?
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That already involves two people using it and also means that the 3rd person is taking a risk for the other one. Most people are not excellent loopers.
Who said that its supposed to be high risk high reward? If that where applicable, then the risk is that the person using the perk has to be a good looper and that the others have to be aware enough to use the time, in case the killer focusses on the STB - user.
This being applicable to every time the perk is used. Thats sounds like a risk to me.
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They should remove the Exposed and maybe the Perk would be usable. I don't know about this high risk, high reward fantasy. I'm sacrificing a Hook State to save someone else. Exposed isn't going to help the person I'm saving remove the aggro off them.
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lol. Not even close. Being in a 4 man SWF means exactly nothing. 99% of SWFs Killer players encounter are just chill people who want to play with their friends.
The big issue is that most Killers think that SWF = comp, and it cannot be more far away from true at all.
It really isnt. The times I encountered it were rare and even then the value was not really good. Granted, I dont usually tunnel, so it does not affect me that much as people playing with their "strategies". One time a person died because they decided to give up a Hook Stage despite the Killer not tunneling (the person unhooked with Shoulder the Burden was not even on Death Hook).
And when I played against it, a Lara indeed escaped due to it because I hooked her 3 times. But it doees not matter since the Taurie died while only being hooked twice (since she gave up a Hookstate). So the result for me was the same, one of them escaped, the other one died.
There are some streamers who are hyping the Perk up, being the next MfT. And granted, if going against very, very good Survivors, it might indeed be really strong, but it still applies what I have written before - most people dont encounter those teams (and people who think they do are just worse than they think they are…).
And I even think the MfT-comparison is not really good, since using Shoulder the Burden efficiently is harder than just being injured by MfT, even if with both Perks a better player will get more value out of it.
12 -
What? You literally can only use it once per match? and very rarely will you see more than one survivor in a match bring STB.
"Once per Trial, and while you are not on Death Hook, press the Active Ability button while standing in front of a Hooked Survivor to unhook them and trigger the following effects:"8 -
It would be fair if the kill rate wasn’t 60%.
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Mate, last time I played with a full 4 player SWF we spent half the match talking about food because I was trying to eat dinner and play the game at the same time.
You definitely can play casual with a full team. In fact, most people do.
13 -
Shoulder the burden give me a hook state as a killer. I'm glad people run that perk.
2 -
Many survivors in my games are doing this, so they do exist.
There are many coordinated SWFs in this game, and the perk should be balanced with them in mind. They get too much value out of stacking and daisy chaining this perk, which is why that perk of the perk should be nerfed.
This whole "what about uncoordinated solo q survivors that don't want to risk themselves" argument doesn't work. I'm specifically talking about coordinated SWFs, and how the perk is too much when they use it.
1 -
There's no current plan to change Shoulder of Burden, it was adjusted from the PTB - Live, and it is something that will be monitored on our side, if we see it behaving problematically then it's of course something that we can change, for right now we're happy with how it's performing.
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Many survivors in my games are doing this, so they do exist.
It's not about whether or not they exist, it's about what the value is.
Stacking the perk is only relevant if the same person is getting hooked over and over, in which case it's an anti-tunnel perk working against tunnelling.
Daisy-chaining it has no value, it just shifts the risk around from one person to the next. It's just using the perk for the sake of using it.
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Do you have any plans for future changes to Chucky after the latest patch?
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I still never get anyone on my team using it, goodness I must really be unlucky and its been what 2 weeks of release?
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It'd be more like transferring a bunch of gen progress from one gen to another, but then making that other gen gain double progress for a while in compensation. Does that sound like a good killer perk to you?I probably shouldn't, but I'm trying to actually think through ideas of perks that could actually kind of work like this:
Scourge Hook: Divide and Conquer - The most progressed gen has its charges divided evenly among all other non - completed gen. For the next 60 second the gen that lost its progress aura is shown and gains double progress. If the gen is blocked by the entity, the 60 second timer is paused.
Or potentially another way
Grounded - After hooking a survivor, if you kick a gen within 15 seconds, it's progress is set to 0. Survivors gain double gen progress for X seconds, where X is the amount of charges the kicked gen had.
Or to make it more directly comparable to Shoulder the Burden.
My Favorite Gen - Target a gen that has been completed. This gen becomes uncompleted and progress set to 0, and the gen with the least amount of progress on the map is instead completed. This gens aura is then shown and it gains double progress for the next 90 seconds. This gen may not be kicked or targeted by a regression event for the rest of the match.
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Stacking the perk is only relevant if the same person is getting hooked over and over, in which case it's an anti-tunnel perk working against tunnelling.
This is not true though and that's the problem.
There are cases where you can use StB even if the killer is not tunneling.
For example if the hook stages are 1-1-1-0, then 2-1-1-0, the killer is playing fair. But the 4th survivor can now go for the rescue and use the perk against him, making it 1-1-1-1.
Stacking the perk is only relevant if the same person is getting hooked over and over, in which case it's an anti-tunnel perk working against tunnelling.
Daisy-chaining it has no value, it just shifts the risk around from one person to the next. It's just using the perk for the sake of using it.
I'm afraid it's a lot more than that. The perk as it is now can be used to force the killer to go 3-1-1-1 before their first kill. Basically, it can punish every killer who doesn't go for 1-1-1-1 not just the ones who tunnel. Of course, solos will not be able to achieve that, but a well-coordinated SWF could, effectively making the solo-SWF balance even worse. As much as I hate tunneling as a game mechanic, it is not reasonable to force the killers to get 6+ hooks against a good team, AND at the same time still allow them to tunnel solo players.
Don't get me wrong I agree that people exaggerate the strength of this perk, and it kind of makes me happy that tunnelers will get their butt kicked for once, but I also think this is indeed a bad perk for the game long-term. Here's why:
- Solos will throw the game more often than not while attempting to use this perk. Many times the killer will be tunneling and you go for the unhook with StB, but another teammate steals the unhook and denies it, so you effectively just wasted time. Then next game, you will be scared that someone steals the unhook again, so you rush the rescue and unhook too early, which actually helps the tunneler. This perk is just too difficult to coordinate for solos, and can be too easily ruined by teammates who think they do the right thing (unhook). This will lead to frustration towards teammates, especially new players. As said I don't have any issue with anti-tunneling mechanics, but the problem is the perk as-is gives this anti-tunnel ability to SWFs and not to solos.
- Tunneling should be fixed with basekit mechanics, not perks. We now have 3 perks to counter tunneling and still 0 basekit mechanic. Encouraging this perk will reinforce BHVR in their stance that "tunneling is part of the game" because SWFs now have tons of ways to counter it when in reality it keeps getting worse and worse for solos.
4 - Solos will throw the game more often than not while attempting to use this perk. Many times the killer will be tunneling and you go for the unhook with StB, but another teammate steals the unhook and denies it, so you effectively just wasted time. Then next game, you will be scared that someone steals the unhook again, so you rush the rescue and unhook too early, which actually helps the tunneler. This perk is just too difficult to coordinate for solos, and can be too easily ruined by teammates who think they do the right thing (unhook). This will lead to frustration towards teammates, especially new players. As said I don't have any issue with anti-tunneling mechanics, but the problem is the perk as-is gives this anti-tunnel ability to SWFs and not to solos.
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in solo Q this does nothing, but in SWF the killer stands no chsnce...
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I'm afraid it's a lot more than that. The perk as it is now can be used to force the killer to go 2-2-2-2 before their first kill.
Only if you're an absolute walnut, playing the game on total autopilot and really, really, really want to kill one survivor in particular, no matter the cost!
If you're at 2-1-1-1, if any of the 1s use Shoulder the Burden, they immediately put themselves on 2 and will be dead on the next hook. So if you are so dead focused on that one survivor that all other survivors use StB twice, I am sorry, but you absolutely deserve to get utterly wrecked by this perk.
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Is the team aware of the bug where shoulder the burden will randomly NOT apply exposed?
0 -
Hah I hope so. I hope they buff it and remove expose.
Edit: Oh and I hope the scream part of it gets removed too.
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