There is no reason to nerf a killer when Nurse exists

how come nurse doesn't receive 50%-75% movement speed decrease on her blinks but chucky receives -50% m/s on his slice & dice? The scope of the type of changes matters here. either way they silently nerfed chucky.

You cant nerf her any further than they have though, as she would literally not be able to catch so as I said in the last part of my comment, I would like to see her reworked as she literally cant be nerfed any further and for the record I think making blink attacks special attacks etc was fine as she is incredibly strong

I don't get the logic of 'she has been the strongest for as long as she existed so she should be nerfed', it is similar to how BHVR seems to want to make every perk meta and it's creating a whole new set of obnoxious metas as a consequence. Some perks should be garbage, not all killers need to be buffed and just because one is the top does not mean they have to be gutted either.

Am sorry to say but ill take a nurse over many other killers and chucky was one of them. Rip to that annoying ######### talking pipsqueak.

That is why I do not follow tier list crap on pvp games, even if said tier list is accurate it all about how one feels toward a character.

Back on topic she has gotten nerfs honestly, the biggest one was her blink is consider a special attack so she cant use expose builds like star struck and noed like all other killers can and why I say so is ofc her 3.8 speed. Some of her add ons I believe the range ones was nerfed too?

I accept nurse oddly cause they either very bad or very good and ngl doing well even vs a good nurse feels satisfying for me.

I find it wierd that even killer players want nurse nerf or change but gets mad if any other killer is complaint about.

@Xxjwaynexx thanks for tagging me on this, as i usually post in these.

There is a fundamental problem with nurse, that i usually respond to when these threads come up. It is a simple question, that most refuse to answer or deflect, but i'll try and ask it of you.

Should DBD be balanced around the highest skill players, or average skill players? I'll tell you my own opinion at the end, but i want you to really stop here and think about it before you keep reading. How should ANY game be balanced really, not just DBD.

Every time BHVR releases data around kill rates, nurse is usually at the bottom of the pack in terms of kill rate. Devs balance for a 60% kill rate (you can disagree but thats what the stated goal of the devs is, mathematically it amounts to killers winning 50% of the time, but that is a different discussion). Anyway, 60% kill rate is the goal. But when devs release their data, it shows nurse usually being around 49-50% kill rate. Even at high MMR her kill rate is often only around 50-55%, usually the lowest or one of the lowest in the game.

Here are just some examples:

Even looking at UNOFFICIAL data, if you look at nightlight RIGHT NOW and sort by kill rate. You'll see that nurse has a 52.97% kill rate. When you look at averages for killer as a whole, that is currently at 54.66% kill rate. So it stands to reason that, when looking at most players, even the "high mmr" ones that BHVR classifies as "high mmr" nurse is actually BELOW the average in terms of kill rate. This would indicate that nurse is completely fine.

But, and i think most would agree. Nurse is objectively the best killer in the game. When played at the HIGHEST level, not whatever the hell BHVR says high mmr is, but the HIGHEST level of play, she is clearly the best killer. As someone who is a nurse main with 4k+ hours in this game, i can truthfully tell you that legitimately, i cannot remember the last time i lost a game as nurse, like i literally cannot. Occasionally i get a draw, maybe a couple of times a week, maybe if i'm memeing around, or going for a tome challenge, or honestly just go up against a good team that puts up a good fight. But a loss? No. My "no loss streak" with nurse is probably well over thousands of games at this point, unironically, but i don't bother counting.

I don't say this to brag, i say this to agree with you, that nurse is a "problem" in the sense that, someone who dedicates the time and energy into playing her, into maining her, is going to be able to exploit her to her fullest potential, and when judged at that level, she objectively needs massive changes.

So, lets say i agree with you, and that nurse needs "nerfs" so to speak (personally i think she needs a total rework, but that is again, a different discussion). Well now you need to contend with the reality of what you just said. You want a killer who, for all intents and purposes, at average level and high mmr is below average, to be nerfed, because of what a few VERY high level (like top 1k or even less) are capable of doing with her. So now, you need to own up to the consequences of that decision.

And what are those consequences? Well, the fact that when you look at things at THAT level of play? Nurse is pretty much the only viable killer. Arguably blight and hillbilly could maybe compete as well, but its probably an uphill battle. At THAT level of play though, with the best of the best players in the world? Nurse is basically the only viable killer to play a "fair" match.

Now this is the part where someone usually says things like "But killers like ghostface and dredge also win matches in comp". But, what most fail to see is that comp usually balances things differently for different killers. Different killers have different perk bans for survivors and killers, different killers get played on different maps.

Ghost face for example, is played on Lery's a very good map for him, that makes him much more interesting. Similarly dredge is played on Midwich, another very good map for him. And different killers have different things that are banned for them. Effectively, comp balances things on an individual killer level by trying to change perk bans and maps and such perk killer, rather than overall.

To conclude, if you think nurse needs to be nerfed because of what the highest level players are capable of, per the data, then you must also content with the fact that at that same level, she is the only viable killer, and nearly every single killer either needs MASSIVE buffs, or survivors need MASSIVE nerfs, to come at the same time as these nurse nerfs.

Now, i said at the end i would answer the question i asked of you, should the game balanced around average skill players, or high skill players? I think the game should be BALANCED around high skill players while DESIGNED around low skill players. Keep in mind that BALANCE and DESIGN are 2 different things. What i mean by this for example, is lets look at Nurse, as you have. Nurse is very OP in the hands of a good killer player, but really BAD in the hands of the average player. This is why she needs a total rework, she needs to be designed in a way that new players can play her and have a good time, but BALANCED in a way that she is fair at the highest level of play.

There is a video i like posting that explains this idea for TF2, i linked the relevant timestamp, but the entire video is a good watch:

This often happens in games where maybe a character is really really good in low level play (a noob stomper) but actually bad in high level play, so the devs need to do some redesigning that "nerfs" the character in a way that makes them less of a problem in lower level play, while also buffing them for high level play. And vice versa is also possible, where characters can be really really bad in low level play, but way OP in high level play, such a thing also probably needs to be redesigned in some way. Maybe not totally, but certainly some better design decisions need to be made.

The perfect example of this in DBD type of decision IMO is the original change to Hex: Ruin. If you weren't around back in the day, the OLD Hex: Ruin did this:

This perk was basically taken every single game by every single killer. It was in like 50% of games or some crazy thing at one point, because it was very effective at slowing the game down. Not only did it make great skill checks not give a bonus (which at the time i believe was 5%, and this was on 80 second gens), but it made it so good skill checks actually REGRESSED the gen.

People who were bad at hitting great skill checks would often resort to "gen tapping" which made a gen take around 100-110 seconds depending on how often you did the tapping JUST to avoid the skill checks. If you were bad at skill checks, this was actually faster than just doing the gen. Lower skill survivors have a hard time with skill checks, and finding totems.

Basically, every single game was "find the ruin before you do gens" and if you found the ruin in 60 seconds, great, the game was an even playing field, but if you didn't, survivors probably lost. And if the killer lost ruin as soon as they spawn because survivors spawned on it? They probably lost. However at the HIGHEST level of play, what did this do? Well, those kinds of survivors can ALWAYS get great skill checks, so all it really did was remove the bonus, they could just ignore ruin completely and fly through gens. On top of that, ruin "just worked" there was nothing the killer needed to do to get its effect unlike pop for example which requires a hook. Its slowdown just worked by nature of bringing the perk

So it was OP in low level play, and very weak in high level play. So it was completely reworked, in what i think is BHVRs greatest balance decision they have ever made.

Now, ruin sucks because 100% is not nearly enough, but that again, is a different discussion.

This ruin was GREAT from a design perspective. It required the killer to push survivors off of gens and pressure them in order to get the effective regression it provides instead of it "just working" this means that the effect of ruin is proportionally effective to how good the killer is at pressuring survivors. So in low skill play, where killers are not able to pressure gens as effectively, ruin was much weaker, but in higher skill games, where killers can often pressure multiple survivors at the same time by juggling the different gens, they could get MUCH better regression, making ruin a real threat. It wasn't long before high skill survivors were always cleansing ruin, and lower skill ones could ignore it a bit for the first few gens and maybe stumble upon it.

It wasn't much longer where we got undying, which made it even stronger in the high level game, while only making it slightly better in lower skill games.

So anyway. BALANCE the game around high level players, and DESIGN the game around low level players, and the game will be in a much more fun and fair state for everyone.

Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

She needs a rework. It's clear that the devs are not doing the path of least resistance, which would be buffing other killers until they're Nurse level or near Nurse level. So instead, we should just take her down. Other killers have to do so much more to get the same amount of reward she gets, because she can just go through walls and floors. Maybe when all killers are "decent," none will be, and then we'll finally get some long-awaited killer buffs.

And its at high mmr too from the published stats. I'd argue that nightlight is showing "higher than average mmr" because in order to be someone who posts on nightlight, you probably need to be someone who knows a bit more about the game and what is going on to know the site even exists to post to, and then also have the mentality of wanting to post there.

Which makes it even funnier.

Nurse can't be meaningfully nerfed, not without changing her into completely different. Her power itself is the problem. And a ground up rebuild won't happen because it would render the thousands of hours many have put into her totally worthless.

And the reason her killrate is low is because her skill floor is relatively high and most nurses suck. And lots of new players who hear she is the strongest killer try her out thinking it'll be easy, get fed their lunch for a while and then move on. However. the ones that are really good are basically uncounterable killing machines.

I don't have a huge issue with her, as many Nurse players are bad, and while she essentially becomes a cheat code with enough experience, I don't lose any sleep about the occasional 5 minute beatdown.

Its a good vid, but please ignore the entire post i made and comment on that video again. I think it would be very productive.

I am actually okay with that, auras on Nurse can be completely broken but I still think perks like BBQ are fine as survivors will still be out of direct blink range and I think BBQ is a healthy perk for the game as it encourages leaving hooks.

But many aura perks can be broken on Nurse for sure and they remove all skill as there is no mind game.

That being said, I think a complete rework would be better in the long run. Nurse was my favourite killer but I feel like I cant play her as it feels cheap and I know people hate her (strong survivors don't seem to but they are the minority, sadly).

I like to play her with no perks, or crap perks or a selection of perks that mess with terror radius.

I also used to like sending myself to Lery's and using the matchbox, though tbh even that can be quite strong as you can pretty much just walk them down and blink on them anyway.

I would like to feel like I can play her again though, so my motivation for a rework is somewhat selfish

If people talk about Nurse-Nerfs, they mean significant Nerfs. And this did not happen.

Yep. I'm tired of people pretending she got anything more than a light slap on the wrist. Like you said, she's always been #1 on the tier lists by a MILE and the nerfs she's received over the years moved her a couple millimetres down at the very most.

Her skill is also really exaggerated.

As an ex Nurse main, agreed. This is one of the main reasons I stopped playing her. A power as lethal as Nurse's should take an extreme amount of skill to use. But it just doesn't.

Blink to last known survivor location → correct with second blink → hit survivor

The only thing you really need to learn as her is her blink distances. Once you've got that down (which should really only take a couple days playing her at the most), then you just play by the above flowchart. It's so cheap. Especially when you slap on aura perks and then you don't even need to correct with the second blink.

It's a huge pet peeve of mine when people justify Nurse's existence with the whole "but she takes so much skill to use" line. It's just not true and never has been. A mediocre Nurse will beat the average team of survivors every time.

If people talk about Nurse-Nerfs, they mean significant Nerfs. And this did not happen

Every single one of her nerfs were giga significant, but they're not enough to make her weaker... she's just that overpowered, a rework would do the trick (but we would see a lot of people saying something like "omg they killed her identity! Survivor sided game! Buuuh!")

Give survivors a third health state when going against her. There you go. She keeps her identity and power and survivors won't want to give up at the mere sound of her first screech anymore.

This pretty much hits the nail on the head - but I think that's exactly the problem. Survivors want Nurse dumpstered because, at a high level, she's the only Killer that can reliably get wins, provided you're good at her. Plenty of "Nurse pros" in here claiming Nurse is easy after having played 5 matches at rock-bottom MMR

I admit i hated it at first, but as i started to play more and more i realize how good of a change it was.

Me too friend, glad am not alone lol.

What do you think they should do to "balance" nurse?

I have played around 20 games over last few days, kinda out of spite for nerf to Chucky…
You can easily create big difference in how effective and difficult she is.

Trust me, if I say, she is not hard if you use several aura reading perks. There is no guessing, you don't need to know map, or predict how survivors run.

So I would do only two things to Nurse and I think she can take both:

• remove grabs from blink (it's not basic attack anymore)
• give her blidness while she charges her blink (just disable aura reading perks)

This way survivors can try to dodge her to lockers (less risky) and try to double back while she charges her blink.
Nurse would finally stop to gatekeep all aura reading perks in DBD.

I agree

She rally need a big rework but we all know that isn't in the cards for her ever. Tho i'ld like to see her blink to 1 charge at 175% the current range, .2-4 seconds longer on the full charge for the new range to lower skill floor some of not needing to learn the blink chain for newer players. then change her blink chain addons to range or faster charge.