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Toxic slugging
Is it just me or does anyone else get games with killers that have extremely fragile egos and if they don't get a 4k it's like their life is over because this game is in a disgusting state game after game after game being left to slug around for 5 mins or more while killers desperately search for last there needs to be some sort of penalty for this as people come to play dbd not slug simulator it is pathetic how many times this goes on the way i see it if they are wasting peoples time letting people slug for a while bleedout bar then if thats the case the time those survivors spend on the ground killers should receive a time penalty for the amount of time said player was slugged because it happens near enough every game
Comments
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You can’t be slugged for more than four minutes since that’s how long the bleed out timer is.
And no, Killers should not be punished for making the best choice in order to secure a 4k. You’re free to bring in an ant-slug perk to counter them.
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My slugging games have greatly increased and it is making me not want to play anymore. Unbreakable is only good once and if you have a slugger if you get up by any means your going right back down so it's useless imo. I sincerely feel slugging like this is greifing for the simple reason there is a hook, there is no reason a killer can't hook and wait it out. Slugging to draw out another player is useless as many don't even attempt to rescue anyone because it's a common tactic. Also hooks now regenerate so there is really only rare cases where slugging should take place.
Problem is this is the easiest way to secure a 4k and this has spiraled out of control. With all these perks out there you don't need to slug every game and every player. Another issue is that slugging is more prominent and people just don't want to waste their time anymore bleeding out of the ground. Less survivors are out there but that's on the devs for allowing it.
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I agree that slugging just for the heck of it is toxic, but slugging for the 4K is not. Killers have every right to try to secure 4K just like survivors have every right to slam out gens as fast as possible and get their whole team out. Both sides do things that are toxic and unnecessary. Killers leave survivors to bleed out when they could hook them, and survivors sit in the exit gate and teabag or spam vault noise notifications to BM the killer until the last possible second in ECG.
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Personally I think they should add base unbreakable as a thing because it is out of control I don't swf I play as a 2 at most so what th randoms that have no idea what to do it does feel the game is slightly unplayable unless you are a swf.
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Those problems are still here and people must deal with it… if you don't like how things are going i suggest you to change game, and no, i'm not saying this in a mocking manner but genuinely speaking because things won't change here… The devs had a lot of time to fix the problems of this game but after all those years people keep talking about the same issues since the game came out…
Post edited by Rizzo on3 -
It's fine to complain about those things from both sides. Toxicity in online gaming is a problem, and a lot of gaming communities seem to have a lot of people who are unnecessarily hostile to each other. And if we don't bring these things up, it is an absolute certainty that they won't be addressed.
I will say that we're fortunate to not be as toxic as certain other gaming communities...
Edit: This comment was in response to one by another user, but that original comment has been removed. So context may be unclear.
Post edited by smurf on0 -
yep ever since that cringe ‘finisher mori’ which in imo should have never came, they slug so much more then before all to see that lame 6-7 sec mori.. really annoying but oh well BHVR is well known for adding things nobody asked for so 🤷🏻 i always bring Unbreakable but it doesn’t help when the killer keeps slugging
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A few fixes that would easily cut back on slugging would be to bring back the depip system, where if you just chose to slug at 5 gens to get an easy 4k, you would depip from not enough hooks. The second being, make Unbreakable base kit but only it only activates if you've been down for 60 seconds.
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No BS Unbreakable, slug is ok, you shouldn't punish a killer for winning the chase
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Im not sure what some people don't understand, slugging isn't toxic when it's for 4k. It's a legitimate tactic to counter survivor tactics like pallet saves and sabo builds. They had a trial of base kit unbreakable and it lead to survivors abusing it. Key points that indicate slugging is part of the game...
1.mori update does encourage slugging
2. Hatch system encourages slugging
3. Prevention of hooking via sabotage or bodyblocking.
4. Slugging has a timer like being on hook or egc
5. Its not reportable in any way.
6. There are perks designed for slugging such as knock out and perks designed to counter it
At this point people really need to accept slugging is part of the game and that's not likely to change. so my advice is get used to it and learn to counter it or simply don't play the game.
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Yea getting slugged so the killer can get a 4K is lame.
I throw #3 on the hook and run the 50/50 for hatch with the last survivor. 3K is a win so 1 more would be nice but it’s not life or death.
After so many hours in DBD, I imagine a lot of us do not have the patience for this nonsense.
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I don't know about anyone else....but if I'm one of the last two survivors in a match and the other person is slugged by a killer looking for end game moir....I will hide and evade. Sorry BHVR....you made your bed. When I play in a group and I'm the person down ...I tell whoever I'm playing with the same thing. The last survivor moir is horrible and I won't feed I won't feed into it. I've even been known to hide and wait out the end game timer just to waste their time like they've wasted mine.
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Slugging for 4k is a cheap play, practically guaranteeing the last kill when the last survivor should be getting a hatch race. By circumventing hatch, slugging for 4k literally creates exactly the situations hatch was designed to avoid; it puts the last survivor in a nearly impossible scenario where they're almost certain to be sacrificed, and at the same time creates a long dawn-out hunt that can last for several minutes. At the same time, slugging for 4k forces the third survivor to just sit and wait on the ground during that time, literally wasting the time of a person who'd probably like to just get to their next game. And slugging for 4k isn't even about 'winning' since the game is considered a win by the MMR system at a 3k.
That act of forcing the last survivor into a situation where they have no realistic chance of escape, and forcing the third survivor to waste several minutes just doing nothing but waiting for death, all to get something that doesn't make a difference between winning and losing all seems like very bad sportsmanship. I'd say it's not wrong to call that toxic since it makes multiple players wait in a pointless situation for several minutes, essentially just wasting their time.
Having said that, I agree with many of your other points. Someone sabos the hook you're carrying a survivor to? Drop the survivor and chase the sabotager. Down someone and have to chase people off gens? Leave the slug and run straight to the gen. But slugging for 4k has a very different set of effects than tactical slugging in such other scenarios. It's incredibly easy to pull off and is wildly tilted in the killer's favor while forcing survivors into a game of hide-and-seek that can draw out the endgame for several minutes.
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I do exactly the same thing. I feel like it's a win to keep the killer from getting a 4k even if I end up dying to the timer.
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If you tbag or emote, you're getting bled out. The killer's showboating on you while in a winning position beyond your control, because that's what you did to him.
Otherwise, he's just being a jerk.
But you're talking about strategic slugging. There's nothing wrong with that. Kills are the killer's objective, and slugging to get the 4th survivor is more kills, more objective. I'm sure survivors would do the 2 more gens (after the 5 have powered the gates) for more points and satisfaction.
I'm not even against a CoD/Battlefield style "coward's way out" option to speed up the dying progress on the ground, because I just want people to stop complaining about this. Your position and solution, like many others', puts all the burden of reasonable doubt on the killer.
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Base unbreakable will be one time use and the perk unbreakable is a second time. Let say you go down again then what?
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Oh don't feel bad at all if am the last person and if they do hook the third and hatch is found , I hide and let egc kill me to deny their stale out of date mori. It seem to makes them very angry since they come into my stream to qq about it. The best part is spamming fast vaults just when entity proc as the revengeful hahahaha you didnt find me.
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slugging itself is not toxic, its necessary strategy when you know someone will come get you from hook or there are only 2 surv left… it become toxic when killer is putting you down just to leave it here and let you bleed out or picking you up to walk few meters and put you down again until you die
i won one game by slugging whole team just because they were always camping on hooks and i couldnt hook anyone so i just put them all down and let them bleed out as a punishment2 -
should be getting hatch?? no… if you cant survive by yourself without killer's mercy then you dont deserve hatch
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Please elaborate. It's not clear what those words mean.
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Like it or not, the Devs have basically all but confirmed that not only is slugging not toxic, it's a-okay and intentional gameplay. If it was anything other than a-okay strategy intended by the game, they'd remove it. Like it or not, it's part of the game and here to stay.
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I think some people, for some unknown reason, have a difficulty understanding the difference between slugging someone just to leave them there for no reason when you could hook them with no downsides (such as letting people bleed out when all 4 survivors are slugged and they could finish the game by hooking but they refuse) and slugging as a tactic.
You'd think it would be pretty easy to understand, but apparently not.
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I think "strategic slugging" as many in this thread are calling it is simply bad game design. A couple scenarios mentioned like "someone sabos hook with person on shoulder... drop person and chase sabo person" and a couple more make sense... that person can be picked up by other teammates if the other can loop well enough.
Slugging for a 4k at end game though?! Oh, you've lost me.... it's literally anti-game. Anti-agency. Your best version of a gameplay loop forces a player to be option-less for upwards of 4 minutes? Which is roughly 26% of what I suspect is the average length of a match of 15 mins... crazy work. I
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Indeed slugging for the 4k or mori might seem toxic or bad sportsmanship but as long as bhvr allows it and actively encourages it then many killers will do it and I don't see it changing any time soon. Personally I don't think slugging for the 4k is cheap, I think the hatch is cheap. Mainly because a killer still has to do something to get 4k, has to chase and down the remaining survivors. The hatch requires the survivor to do nothing all match, potentially throw your whole team under the bus getting them killed so that 1 person can get a hatch escape...such an anti team mechanic. That's a cheap escape
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That's what the hatch does. It rewards the losing team with an almost 50/50. Survivors can get absolutely stomped but the last guy standing will have a rough coin toss chance of "winning". Participation medals come to mind. It's nonsensical of course, but sadly necessary because otherwise people would grief the match hostage for 40 minutes ++. As they used to.
The killer has the logical best path for his role (which is to kill, by the way, in case people forget) aka slug for the 4k to try to counter the nonsense. A lot of people don't mind. A lot of people do. A lot of the time I alt tab when the 3rd survivor is killed. But guess what? Even alt tabbed it takes a long time sometimes because the survivor NEEDS me to show up to see them enter the hatch and won't enter otherwise. And then they come here to complain when some killers slug. You have to laugh.
Anyway, necessary evil because people are trolls. 4 minutes on the ground as someone is playing their objective is nothing compared to 40+ minutes as no one is playing anything and are just trolling.
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it wasn't removed, as always a mod modified my comment without the necessity to doing so -_- … Anyway, slugging par se isn't toxic, but it could be annoying for the survivors… Most of the times it's a necessary evil in order to gain more time and it's a gameplay mechanic… Even certain killers base their gameplay on this mechanic (twins and oni respectively). it's like finishing generators under the killer's nose or bodyblocking with basekit bt: the killer will found those actions EXTREMELY annoying (and some people will find this even toxic), but in reality it's optimal gameplay… in order to change those things the devs should stop to punish killer for everything that survivors found unfun and concentrate of making the game more balanced toward chases and mixed hooks rather than kills, but this is pure uthopia since facts proves that they care more about muh stats rather than actual gameplay
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if you cant survive on your own to get chance to use hatch without killer's help you should be sacrificed like others because there are many ways to survive until hatch is open like bill's perk to get up on your own to counter slugging.. because why would killer help you
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Slugging isn't toxic, its necessary strategy or last chance to get something, since killer's don't have any ways to play little comfortable. Because devs treats survs like a babys: Camping is toxic here for you anti-camp system with perks, gen's regressing is too much ? Here for you nerfing killers perks. Tunneling is toxic ? Anti-tunneling system with perks. And every time this happens, killers became a clowns because of such complaining. Now only things you do is walking and hitting, slugging or playing nurse
There is no outplays there's no strategies left, and that's sad because there is no fun anymore to play as killer
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The killer isn't helping you by not slugging for 4k; they're following the expected gameplay loop.
Not only that, but slugging for 4k causes two people to wait for up to several minutes in a nearly impossible situation. The last survivor has essentially no hope of escape as soon as the third survivor is slugged. Forcing such a situation in a game is already unsportsmanlike. But beyond that, the third survivor has to wait on the ground for up to several minutes. It is astonishing that a person would think it's okay to do that in a game that's supposed to be fun for the people playing it.
What you're suggesting is that every game should end in a game of hide-and-seek that wastes the time of two people unless one player decides to 'help' two other players.
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the question is why shouldnt he leave you on the ground until he gets last one??? hiding can let last survivor escape, perks can let survivor escape when 3rd is dying on hook… why should killer let that happen and risk losing
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The answer to that question is already written in both of my previous comments you've responded to. I'll copy/paste the relevant part here again:
"... slugging for 4k causes two people to wait for up to several minutes in a nearly impossible situation. The last survivor has essentially no hope of escape as soon as the third survivor is slugged. Forcing such a situation in a game is already unsportsmanlike. But beyond that, the third survivor has to wait on the ground for up to several minutes. It is astonishing that a person would think it's okay to do that in a game that's supposed to be fun for the people playing it."
The game is supposed to be fun for all players. But by slugging for 4k, the killer forces the last two survivors to literally waste their time in a situation that nearly guarantees that the other players have a poor outcome. And that's not even being done so the killer can 'win' since the game is already considered a 'win' when a 3k is achieved.
We are playing this game with other people, so it is necessary to consider the experience of those other people when we play. That means that survivors shouldn't be teabagging, and killers shouldn't be tunneling, camping, or slugging for 4k. I'm not saying that anyone is forced to act well toward other people, only that they should.
Realistically, BHVR should be finding ways to police those behaviors enough that they almost never happen. Personally, I know that I'm playing less now than I used to because I see the game stuck in a place where people keep doing things that ruin the experience of other players. When I think of loading up a match, I also wonder what the point of it will be because of things like this. But I've held out some hope that they'll make it better, hence still staying a little involved in the community.
Post edited by smurf on3 -
A 3k is definitely not a loss.
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I see what you mean about survivors who don't contribute to their team getting a decent chance of escaping at the end. In almost all games I've played as survivor or watched, this almost never occurs, but it definitely feels undeserved when it happens. I've had scenarios as killer where I've watched a survivor actively sell out of give up their teammates. In those scenarios, I've slugged the third, hunted the scoundrel and gone back to pick up my slug to give them hatch or gate.
It would be reasonable to make the hatch mechanic a little skill-based to make it somewhat earned in the eyes of people like yourself who dislike the RNG nature of it. Some people have proposed to make a last chase where the survivor has to last a certain amount of time, but I think that would be unfairly biased between high and low skill lobbies (low skill lobbies will see the survivor never escaping, but high skill lobbies will see the race outcome depend on skill and which killer is involved - a la Nurse). I think the challenge there is to make such a race fair. Personally, I like the current hatch mechanic, but a well-balanced somewhat skill-based hatch rework that gives the last survivor a reasonable chance to escape across all MMRs would maybe be better.
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I know it's not a popular opinion but I think hatch mechanic should be replaced by a simple button that both killer and survivor can press somewhere on the map to activate egc. It would remove the free escape option, remove the need to hide in 2 v 1 situations as they wouldn't be waiting on the hatch and it would still fulfill the purpose that the hatch was supposed to do which is prevent a never ending match by activating egc.
No matter what happens survivors always have and always will have the option to hide for eternity but when they do this it's mostly because they want the hatch escape. Remove it as an option and it reduces the need to hide. Even reduces the need for killers to slug the 3rd knowing there isn't a hatch the 4th could sneak out of.
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I get slugged maybe 1 in 20 to 50 matches lol
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your goal as killer is to kill survivors, not let anyone escape.. the game is designed to encourage killers to kill every single one
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eh.. youre still ignoring how the game is designed.. its only your problem as survivor if you cant win, rly.. the killer's job is to kill every survivor before they escape.. 3 kills is not win
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So you're saying that since people can make their time easier by making other people have a bad time, they should do that?
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Speed up bleed out or give an auto bleed out button at two survivors left or if all survivors are slugged and UB, Exponential and Plot Twist aren't in play.
There's no inherent issue with a Killer going for a 4K by itself. Making another player do nothing for 4 minutes is quite rude and an issue and the Killer's already won; the issue is a player or players not being able to do anything for four minutes straight.
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ddfg
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what? xD bleeding out is basic mechanic, why youre so mad at killers for using it to get 4th kill?? 2 survs already have almost 0% chance of wining together anyway
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Regarding the low chance of the last survivors escaping: Hatch was implemented to do two related things: prevent a long drawn out hunt, and give the last survivor a reason to play out the endgame. The last survivor should have a reasonable chance at escape or else the match should just end as soon as the third survivor is down.
Slugging for 4k forces the third survivor to wait on the ground for several minutes unable to do anything while the killer goes to get their nearly guaranteed fourth kill during some long, slow hunt. And now, the killer can top that off by doing a victory dance over the slug once they've finished their hunt.
Also, it doesn't matter that bleedout is a basic mechanic, the question stands: Are you saying that since people can make their time easier by making other people have a bad time, they should do that?
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AGAIN… it's not killer's problem that last survivor left you behind and won't help you.
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That doesn't answer the question. If I can make my time easier by forcing other people to have a bad time, I should do that?
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If a survivor bleeds out all the way, the game doesn't count it as a kill. Why do something that the game doesn't count as a kill if all you are going for is kills?
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dead is dead. Pressure is pressure.
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That in no way answers the question I asked, but ok. Made up rules is made up rules.
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It does answer it. As a killer we dont care how you die. As long as your dead. What difference does it make. We just want the survivor out of the game by any means necessary. Who cares if you bled out.
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This is like the only game I can think of where one side can remove 95% of the others game play with just the click of a button for 4 minutes straight. while I'm not going to ask for a base kit unbreakable its an outdated mechanic that's the equivalent of watching paint dry and needs a tuning pass.
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Oh I see, you don't understand how the game scores kills and you are doubling down on it.
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