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Sacrificial Wards Should Return Map Offerings that are Rejected
Now that sacrificial wards are a common offering, the offerings they reject should be put back into the inventories of the players that used them. Since this rarity change was a band-aid fix to a problem that was really was not as big as many players make it out to be and could only be solved by the devs fixing unfair maps for both sides, the solution is of course showing its ineffectiveness.
There are 15 common items (brown) that can spawn in any killer's bloodweb. This includes offerings and addons. A common node costs 2000 bloodpoints. Common nodes make up between 25% and 33% of nodes in any given bloodweb (50% for low level bloodwebs).
There are 42 rare items (green) that can spawn in any survivor's bloodweb. This includes offerings, items, and item addons. A rare node costs 3250 bloodpoints. Rare nodes are roughly 15% and 25% of nodes in any given bloodweb.
For this example, assume a level 50 bloodweb with 26 nodes. If there are 9 common nodes that spawn, there is a 46.25% chance that at least 1 sacrificial ward will be given to the killer player. If there are 7 rare nodes, there is only a 15.52% chance at least one of a specific map offering will be given to a survivor player.
With these odds alone, it's already unfair for the person bringing a map offering because of the rarity and cost. I have gone on 20+ streaks of level 50 bloodwebs and not finding a single MacMillan offering, all for that to be completely nullified by an offering that now essentially has a coin flip's chance in spawning in a bloodweb.
I understand players have issues with unbalanced maps. Why not fix the maps instead of making a poor band-aid fix?
Comments
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Apparently Sac Wards aren't foolproof. I used one to cancel an Eyrie offering and we still ended up there anyways. Unless my luck is just that bad.
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They don't remove the chance to go to any map, they just remove the influence of the map offering. You're essentially going from a guarantee to a full-odds of the map pool.
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🤌 Do you know what this is? It’s the world’s smallest violin, playing just for the people whose map offerings got denied.
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That's just bad luck. It doesn't prevent you from going to that map if the RNG rolls that way by itself, it just cancels the offering.
Honestly Sac Wards could probably do with preventing cancelled maps from rolling at all, because it kind of feels terrible to cancel a map offering and end up there anyway lol
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Sorry but map offerings are pain. I won't support the idea of allowing them to be used even more. I wish they would be removed entirely.
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Nah. Sac Wards aren't refunded if no map offering is used, so I see no reason why map offerings should be refunded. That's just the risk you have to deal with now that sac wards are more common.
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I don't think that should be done.
You aren't forced to use a map offering. In the old DBD days I saw someone play Mirror Myers without a map offering, if you can believe that.
By choosing to use an offering, you choose to take the risk of the offering being canceled, and I think that is okay.
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I dont care it got denied I was just stating it recently happened.
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The point of what I'm saying is that the risk of running a map offering far exceeds the risk of one person saying no. Someone spending 200k+ bloodpoints to get one map offering of their choice versus someone spending at most 50k to have almost a guaranteed sacrificial ward is not fair in my opinion. The risk is still there for the map to get cancelled, but at least that player would have another fair chance to run the map the next match if it was refunded, instead of having to potentially spend another 200k+ bloodpoints for another of the same offering.
I'm perfectly fine if offerings that have no effect get refunded, that goes for sacrificial wards too. This is part of a larger discussion about how bloodwebs, items, etc. need a full rework in terms of their acquisition, but that's a can of worms outside the scope of this thread.
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its not 1 survivor who can get the offering, and again 1 of a specific offering, almost every high level bloodweb has a map offering or several. There isn't just 1 good offering for survivors, if you play with any frequency and don't bring them every match you will net a ton of them and if you are during an event for more bp you will go net positive even using them every match… as 1 player. You can team up with people to have map offerings every game quite easily.
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But no offering comes with that guarantee. If you used them but didn't get any value, for whatever reason, it is part of the game.
They always have that risk.
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Do you have a 2nd violin I can borrow? Lol
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The risk is egregiously disproportional to any other situation. 200k bloodpoints can be upwards of an hour or two of playing, all for the chance of one offering. You can get a sacrificial ward by logging in with the daily bloodpoint login bonuses that always seem to be running. I'm not begging to bring map offerings every game, all I'm saying is with the current implementation, there is no point to run a map offering because the investment is too much for the risk involved. I understand that was the point of the band-aid fix, but like the math shows, it is completely unfair for those who want to complete map achievements or anything of the sort when their rare offering is countered by a common one.
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Which, again, is all countered by a 2000 bloodpoint common offering that has a 50% chance to spawn in all bloodwebs. I have never in my thousands of hours playing this game seen a group of 4 survivors cancel a sacrificial ward by all running the same map offering, but even if that were the case, the killer still has the option to alt+f4 on the loading screen with no penalty. How is that fair for anyone?
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Survivors don't have the option to alt+f4 in the loading screen with no penalty?
Its fair because map offerings aren't fair and giving BOTH sides the option to choose not the deal with them (its not a killer exclusive offering) makes for a more balanced game of rock paper scissors.
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You can't say "I'm not begging to bring map offerings every game" while your entire point was you want to keep the offering so you can -checks notes- equip it until it works. Map offerings were already countered before this change by bringing another map offering. Those map offerings were not refunded either. The 200k you keep mentioning is not the value of a map offering. It's the total value of every offering and addon you got.
In short... keep burning your map offerings until they're all gone. Maybe someone will let one work. It sure ain't gonna be me, lol. I'm running sac wards every match.
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The Sacrificial Ward should have never been lowered. The Devs baby Killer Mains too much. They focus too much on making Killer good but Survivor gets left in a poor, unenjoyable role.
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there is no point to run a map offering
Then… don't.
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Sac Wards benefit me as a survivor. I'm tired of teammates sending me to Eyrie or whatever the flavor of the week is; there's always some en vogue map that becomes a monotonous slog as it burns itself into my retinas. It's great to have the option to say, "No more."
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Im personally fine with them burning and wasting Map Offerings, it gives Map Offerings more weight, they are strong enough to completely change the outcome of a game but also can be completely nullified if ran against the right counter-offering.
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Stop SWFing and you won't have that problem.
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Did you reply to the wrong person? I never mentioned SWF. Or did you mean to tell me I won't have that map problem if I start playing in a SWF and so choose my teammates? I'm really confused.
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Oh no! You mean you can LOSE the chance you just burned to go to a map that overly favors your side, ruining it for whatever poor sod or sods get matched with you? The horror! You lose an easily renewable offering you can get by blinking at the Bloodweb enough times!
We don't need map offering refunds. You shouldn't be able to stockpile a bunch of offerings that tilt maps in your favor; it's just one more thing the sweatiest Killers and SWFs like to abuse when they were intended to just be used to help with the map cheevos. They're dumb and IMHO need to be removed from the game entirely, or make it so you DON'T go to that map.
I am more than willing to lose the ability for me to play Ghostface of the Lery's or Jumpscare Midwich Myers if it means this obnoxious use of map offerings to sweat all over others by making the game favor your side goes away. Making this offering Common was the best thing they could have done without removing or altering map offerings entirely.
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You… you do realize Survivors run Sac Wards as well, right? Like you realize the offering is not mutually exclusive? The us vs. them was completely unnecessary, this isn't "Devs babying Killer Mains", this is Devs realizing map offerings are overused by both sides to tilt the game heavily in their favor because map offerings on either side are that powerful.
It is unenjoyable for BOTH roles to be sent to maps that favor one side to the point it becomes a sweaty slog. This isn't just a Survivor issue, never was never will be. I do not want to be sent to Haddonfield as Survivor. I also do not want to be sent to Coldwind as Ghostface or Lery's as Huntress. It feels bad.
Anyway I am running Sac Wards both sides, to counter people who just want to use them to sweat all over some poor baby M1 Main with Eyrie or some group of new players who just wanted to have fun and learn. Again. Because I'm sick of people ruining the game for others with map offerings just because they think they have something to prove against the other side. It's sweaty, it's obnoxious, it's borderline griefing, and everyone in the community hates you a little bit more when you offer a map that heavily favors your side.
Shame on you. Shame on you for the us vs. them. I'm so sick of the division in this community and people insisting the Devs "baby" the side they don't play as much, the Devs do not baby or favor either friggin' side and they have said as much multiple times. Empathy, especially for the other side playing, is more than just a Claudette Morel perk.
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You are missing the point of the post. Why have the offering at all if the risk is too high to run it? You wouldn't spend 1000 dollars on a lottery ticket if it was the same odds as a scratch off. I know the simple response is "well just remove the map offerings." Why wasn't that done instead of this?
The risk of being countered needs to be toned down if they still have the map offerings in a pool of 42 rare items. Having a band-aid fix like this is poor game design.
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It wasn't. And yes 200k is the net value of the addon if all someone is looking for is a specific map offering to complete an achievement. Half of the green items in the game for survivors are never used: green keys, the green bloodpoint offerings for the individual categories, the maps that are extremely killer sided. Most of the bloodweb's items are junk and it really needs to be reworked.
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I'll agree to that. In the meantime though, go ahead and keep tossing those SURVIVOR sided map offerings in the fire. You could be using BP offerings but you choose to try to skew the odds in your favor at the main menu. I'm overjoyed that it only takes a brown offering to kick your toe off the scale.
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Alt-f4 still burns the offering of the player who disconnected. So no, if a survivor sees a sacrificial ward, they don't have the option to alt-f4 because the result is the same: the offering is still consumed. This interaction only favors the sacrificial ward player because not only is the chance of all 4 other people using the same offering borderline non existent, but sacrificing an offering that costs 2000 points and spawns in 50% of bloodwebs can be found almost instantly after the fact.
I'm not arguing whether or not map offerings are fair or not. I'm arguing that a sacrificial ward has too much power for being a common item. At this point, it should be cancelled if two of the same map offering are brought to pull its power in line with the rarity.
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I mostly use them for either variety or achievements. The fact that RPD and nostromo feel like they have increased pick rates is half the reason I cycle my map offerings since the game's RNG doesn't seem to want to do its job.
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Works out well then since your not looking for a PARTICULAR map. It sucks getting the same map over and over and you get map offerings on just about every high level bloodweb when you arnt looking to be picky with them. I'll just leave it to RNG though. Got something to toss into the fire? Lol
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When the rarity for a map offering is rare and the rarity for a sacrificial ward is common... yes. Higher rarity implies greater influence or power on the match. If that is no longer the case, a complete rework of the bloodpoint system should be done (I think it should be done regardless). That was why I suggested at the very least only two of the same offering should cancel a sacrificial ward. It still has its intended effect, but it isn't as powerful as it used to be due to its new rarity (if returning the offering is not an option).
Also, I would appreciate if you were less condescending to me. I don't see what I've done to warrant that.
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- Find me posts where a Survivor complains about being sent to Treatment Theatre with Shape or Ghost Face. You won't. Only Killer Mains complained about Map Offerings. You kinda did it in your own reply.
- If you're complaining about a disadvantage you are also a sweat and want to win badly. If you're as casual as you think you are, you wouldn't care.
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Nah, I don't think I will. Since when was the rarity of something an excuse to allow anything busted to exist. I'm pretty sure we've seen PLENTY of Ultrarare offerings and addons get nuked because they were seen as unfair.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
Survivors don't typically complain about a map offering in itself, but rather the combo of killer+build+offering. Nobody really cares if a Huntress uses a Game map offering, but if it's an impossible skillcheck Doctor that's different. Same with an aura read build Nurse on Midwich. The map offerings amplify the unfun part of specific builds.
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Another definition of "rarity" is the frequency or how common it is. This definition seems to fit more as another rare offering, the bloody party streamers, don't influence the match in a way map offerings do.
We ask why should 2 offerings override it? Any swf or chatty group of solos can already override it by placing 4 of the same map offering. Killers don't even get that luxury as sacrificial wards are something both sides use. We see it as fine as is.
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Nah, map offerings should just be removed from the game entirely. Being able to choose a map and bring an optimal build for it is obnoxious and neither survivors or killers should be allowed to have that much influence on a match before it even begins.
Convert all existing map offerings in players' inventories to Bloody Party Streamers and retire them.
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Team coordination pregame will always allow for the cancelation of a sacrificial ward. If the survivors are cooperating, it doesn't matter if it's two, three, or four offerings. Having it be two only helps with the implication that the rarer the item, the more powerful it is. This is upheld by the power to rarity ratio for killer addons, item addons, items, etc. An easy solution would be for 4 tiers of sacrificial ward. Common can be cancelled by two offerings, rare can be three, very rare can be four, and ultra rare can be a guarantee. Also this is assuming that the players can communicate. Console players cannot see chat with PC players.
Also, bloody party streamers absolutely influence a match. A player using one will try to acquire as many bloodpoints as possible to maximize the offering. They will play differently for sure. If a killer sees enough bloodpoint offerings, they may decide to play a farm game. Or they could decide to play a completely optimized game to prevent the survivors from benefiting from the offering. Long story short, yes even they influence a match.
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I would prefer this over the band-aid fix we got.
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Converting them to Bloody Party Streamers does nothing because we know Killers are selfish and use Survivor Pudding.
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Item rarity does not equal Balance it doesn't matter its a brown addon countering a green addon
And kicking the stone further down the road for people who don't bring sacrificial wards every game isn't fair, bringing the offerings should come with some risk because with any amount of saving / swf you can bring them every single match and most of the time get easy wins from them. Saying the easy win button shouldn't have a risk associated with it like being eaten by the better odds of a fair map button is something I don't understand.
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Just going to leave this here.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/251068/the-sacrificial-ward-offering-should-also-be-cancelled-if
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As we've implied before and suppose have to clearly state, rarity does not immediately imply strength. If you want more cases of this look at iridescent add-ons for some killers. Since the survivors are cooperating already why should it not be a group decision with 4? If they can't all communicate why should the group of 2+ dictate the map? What we is an over complication of things if adding more types of wards.
Streamers don't influence the trial the same way a map offering does. One affects only player mentality, the other affects the mentality and what the player can do. Examples: Mirror Meyers or Huntress at rotten fields vs lerys institute. Despite also being a rare offering the streamers dont have the same impact do they?
Also on a slite side track, to play an optimized game wouldn't you need to prepare before the trial with builds and such? Sure you can play more viciously but not more "optimally".
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I kinda thought this too when I first understood the use of the sacrificial ward. It kinda makes sense that players would get their map offering back if someone used a sacrificial ward, but it doesn't work like that sadly. Maybe it would just be difficult or pointless to have separate code for just a singular offering unless we get more offerings that reject others
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I've been away for a few weeks but boy does it feel good to come back to good news like this.
As a map offering hater, all I can say is that I'm absolutely delighted by this change. This is nothing but a quality of life improvement. Getting sent to your opponent's favoured map always puts me in a bad mood, so being able to burn sac wards more often will eliminate yet another source of frustration for me. Previously, I could easily exhaust my supply of sac wards in just a single play session.
I'd rather let the entity choose our map regardless of what side I'm playing as (though exceptions can be made for a scratched mirror Myers or burning the Haddonfield offering on Halloween).
I suppose you could say this is kind of a shadow nerf to swfs, since swfs have 2, 3 or 4 times as many potential map offerings to burn, but I don't see why anyone else should really care about this change.
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Item rarity does imply balance. Look at a yellow flashlight versus a green flashlight. Look at any killer's iri addons versus their common addons. Case and point spirit. To say that item rarity does not imply balance is just factually incorrect.
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See above comment. They have been shifting away from iri addons being directly overpowered like with what they did with Dracula, but look at spirit or huntress or clown. Their better addons are greens or above.
A party streamer(s) absolutely affects the match. I never said it was to the same physical degree a map offering does. It's all a part of the mental game. People play differently if they are in play.
Playing optimally in terms of core killer skills. You don't need 4 slowdown to play optimally. You can play optimally with what you have equipped.
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Item rarity implies …. Rarity, not strength, how often the game wants you to be able to run something does not directly equal how strong it is. Sometimes rarity matches up with strength but that's not really the guidelines by which they choose rarity for items, addons, and offerings.
There are plenty of useless iri addons compared to brown addons, plenty of killers have only 2-3 good addons and usually they are yellow / brown. Survivors have a green commodious toolbox that almost universally better and more versatile than the 2 purple toolboxes that come after it at doing what those specialized toolboxes want to do but better because it has more charges. Green medkits used to be some of the best medkits because even though purple had more charges back in the day it just healed yourself faster.
One of the best bloodpoint offerings is yellow, and the best group offering is green, while there are 4/5 (depending on side) other green bp offerings that don't even hold a candle to them.
Just because they changed a formerly green offering to a brown offering so that people could access it more often doesn't mean you need to buff the strongest offerings in the game.
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Why would the devs want to limit how frequently an item is used if not for its implied power or effect on a match?
Arbitrarily puting rarities on items without any rhyme or reason does not logically make sense, and it is simply not true.
To your addon point, the addon rarities are the dev's own internal power rankings before the community uses them. We have seen many instances of addons changing rarity based on their effectiveness, look at Billy's new iri after his rework or even soma family photo on singularity. The fact that knight used to run only a common and uncommon addon (map of the realm and dried horse meat) is purely because of the reliability those addons brought. His other addons are still very good, but also knight on release after his massive buff patch didn't need much more to be an oppressive killer. That's why addons are a similar yet separate topic from offerings.
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- You aren't paying attention if you don't see people complain about this. Haddonfield is currently the most Killer sided map in the game, everyone complains about it.
- Maps HEAVILY disadvantage the other side to lightly inconvenience them depending on the map. It's not a case of not caring. It's a case of some maps still to this day being too sided. It's a problem. Sweating has nothing to do with it, you can be casual and not want to face the sweatiest players alive. I sure don't want to see tunnelling Chuckies on Swamp any more than I do sweaty Survs on Eyrie.
- You will not listen to me, your mind is made up and I'm not going to argue. Have a lovely day. :)
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Novelty, less is more
It happens all the time, look at status effect addons, they go in every single rarity with no rhyme or reason besides exposed addons
We've seen ~6 instances of addons changing rarity and its usually off the tail end of a rework not a response to something being good / bad on its own.
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