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What's going on with babykillers and tunneling lately?
Sounds offensive I know but in the last week there was not a single game where the killer would not tunnel hard and/or proxy camp from the start of the match. These killers (mostly) did not make good use of their killers power but tried to outweigh that by tunneling hard and camping.
And I say babykiller even though Im no beginner (5 years in dbd) because these people actually do have hundreds if not more then a thousand hours in the game but play like it's their first week with the killer (while being p68 or smth).
While some people may be able to pull something off out of this situation, most of the players are not on coms and therefor will not be able to resolve the situation easily.
So basically you play like in a tournament against soloq casual players.
2 things are the result from this:
1. People don't want to play with you and if you start to face good teams they will stomp you and (rightfully) make fun of you.
2. You will win a few matches but your mmr will increase to a level you don't belong to, so if you don't tunnel hard at 5 gens you will loose every single match.
So this goes out to people who cannot play without tunneling at 5 gens:
Go back to the drawing board. Your strategy will only carry you for a little while and then teams will eat you alive. Watch streamers or youtubers to develop an understanding for your killers power and especially develop game sense.
If you need more then a minute for a chase and no gen has popped you are most likely not faceing a team. So stop playing like your life depends on it.
In the end its a win win if you learn how to control your killer and are able to win matches that way, while survivors get a fair match. Trust me it feels a lot better to simply play better then your opponments being a very lethal killer then being an m1 brisket tunneling hard.
Tunneling later in the game is a different topic not realted to this one.
Comments
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What is the point of this post? The game heavily discourages spreading hooks. Average to below average killers already get stomped by not tunneling. Not everyone plays this game like a full time job to be able to win with 12 hooks.
15 -
killer does well one match
killer, does horrible the next but mmr does NOT go down
killer in response uses meta perks
killers mmr is skyrocketed, and hes faced against meta surviviors
and losing over and over isnt fun, so the killer in response will win, by any means necessary(get the joke?)
3 -
Also true, killer gameplay has been incredibly discredited to the point where if you dont notice a frame of a survivior for a second, or fail to win a 50/50 mind game your called terrible despite having countless hours in the game
6 -
If that is your only point go look at my other posts.
Tunneling at 5 gens is pathetic and nothing else. If you don't have any skill, train.
it's like complaining playing more complex music is unfair because you don't get it from the start5 -
…except for the fact, not everyone is like you, Atom. And not everyone wants to train to not be demolished in a game.
Tunneling at 5 gens isnt pathetic you literally have shoulder the burden which nullifies it. Maybe swap one of your 2nd crutch perks with it to cope.
Also, most killers wont tunnel at 5 gens, unless they notice you brought a map offering, 4x toobloxes or to many gens with progress. At that point it is crucial to tunnel for a minimum 2k…
and now you also have altruistic perks that counter hooking, slugging, and literally every single thing a killer can do to win. If you play alturistically instead of perks that benefit only you; maybe youll see a difference.
Its like complaining that someone played a easier music than you, when you also have easier music but decided to criticize instead of also using a easier piece
Post edited by trapners on8 -
Frankly I don't want to have to make a game my job in order to simply not get my teeth kicked in with the Killers I enjoy playing.
Post edited by SidneysBane1996 on9 -
Most of the nice guy killers have been pushed away from the game. We keep getting punished every patch to the point where it's just frustrating. That, and normal hook gameplay just isn't feasible when the devs keep punishing killers for hooking survivors (especially share the burden which affects all hooking, not just tunnelers) , so that just brings in more slugging.
7 -
Trying to tunnel 1 survivor out as fast as possible these days with all the anti-tunnel perks + the extra 20 seconds on hook stages is suicide as killer nowadays.
3 -
Maybe you should just get good…
And not cling to shame tactics using old, salt-borne terms.
9 -
We could easily say the same to those Killers who over-rely on those cheap tactics like tunneling, camping, and slugging.
2 -
to tunnel a camp, etc. you need to win the chase anyway
8 -
Do you mean average to below average killer characters or average to below average killer players?
0 -
This is literally not true and you would know that if you had played solo q in the past few weeks.
I can assure you that most of the killers I faced brought map offerings, played A or S-Tier killers and brought meta builds. Or all of these together.
Your analogy about music doesn't make much sense to me.
If you can't win a match without tunneling hard, then you lack skill. It is that simple. If you don't want to get better at the game, why even bother playing? If you don't want to get better and just play casual thats fine by me. But if you want to win so badly that you cannot do anything without tunneling, then I expect a little commitment from you as killer.
It is well proven that it is not that hard in most cases to have a fair amount of matches regardless how skilled you are. There are always bad matches because of mmr rubberbanding etc but ultimately if you fake your way to the upper league then don't expect to get away with it.
These people brought it on themself, so face they need to it and try to learn from it. As I said if tunneling is your only strategy you will soon learn how frustrating pro survs can make this game for you. And you will not get anywhere from there it is a dead end.3 -
Aah the old "get good" argument.
I am learning to get better at looping and I know I am way better as killer then as survivor. The point here is that playing survivor is no fun if the killer is just an m1 brisket and has barely any clue how to chase or how to use the killers power. Whats the point of having a variety of killers if they all get played the same way?
And if you cannot win any matches without hard tunneling, well hate to break it to you but you lack skill then.1 -
You will get humiliated either way. It's just a matter of time. And can you really say you had an intense good game if you do nothing but the cheapest tactic available? Can you reall feel good about it and be proud?
That's like going for mush potatoes because chips are too hard and spicy. You have teeth, so use them.0 -
Agreed.
The most frustrating thing for me in dbd is not losing a match. It is having no chance from the start. And that includes a nurse tunneling at 5 gens or survivors on coms tbagging at the exit gate.5 -
so basically you're crying because killers tunneled you recently
6 -
I dont know if you don't really read my post or any of the answer given but it doesn't look like you understood the topic
1 -
tunneling at "5 gens" doesn't exist, it's a made up term made by highly inefficient soloQ teams where:
- players last very short in chases;
- teammates are completely allergic to gens;
- teammates rush for the unhook when first chased survivor gets hooked.
If it happens to you, it's pure failure of you and your own team to be efficient at all, and killer just took advantage of it, because if your team fails to do any gens by the time first chase is finished, that's a serious problem of your team (or you if you lasted extremely short in chase)
6 -
if they are baby killers you shouldn't have difficulty beating them
8 -
You are not wrong.
Most problems survivors face in this game are caused by their teammates. While there are some cases of killers playing in manners worth complaining about, I myself rarely ever think much about what a killer did past the end screen (unless they were really cool, then I never forget). But my teammates? Oof. Don't touch gens, go down within seconds, rush in for a save or run in circles around the gen we almost had done or spend all their time in lockers and behind rocks. Get slugged under a hooked survivor and stay there. Every misplay they can make they do. And I just know that some of them are griping about the killer and how toxic he was when all he did was play killer.
If players would recognize this and complain about SBMM instead of their opposition's playstyle, maybe people's attention would be directed where it's warranted. Us vs Them is a form of misdirection that is unfortunately effective.
4 -
Because it's the most efficient strategy and the game incentivises kills over hook states. Before many gen regression perks were nerfed, killers could afford to go for more hooks, because more hooks = more regression. This is no longer the case, so, for as long as the game refuses to encourage going for hook states over kills, killers will go for the most efficient strategy to get kills, which is tunnelling, slugging, and camping.
6 -
SBMM is a huge problem for quite some time due to the fact that it's terrible and soft cap is way too easy to reach (meaning accuracy at matchmaking once you hit it is really low because any MMR score hundred s of points higher than that also falls in matchmaking with people that just reached it.
On top of that, survivor role is dependent on having all 4 teammates that actually are capable of doing something and having basic macro gameplay knowledge. The reasons why i think BHVR doesn't want to change their SBMM system and at least raise the soft cap are:
- they don't want people complaining about any kind of longer queues since dbd community is basically hungry for instaqueues;
- the game is pretty much balanced around current matchmaking system, meaning overhaul in SBMM will have to result in significant balance changes in order to actually make it fair.
Basically, for now we are all victims of a curse where scrims are basically the only way of having an accurate and fair matchmaking with fair balance rules.
4 -
This isn't a player problem, and it shouldn't be expected for players - who have varying levels of skill - to fix it.
This is a game design problem. If the Devs make these tactics useful, appealing, and a way to win, because they demand winning means a 3-4k or you're garbage, then they need to design the game better.
Just because you have teeth doesn't mean you know how to use them or that the hunt you're in is designed to be able to let you use them. Especially when using them feels more detrimental than just falling back to brute force. if you really can't chew the chips, and the game is demanding you chew the chips, then why wouldn't you just give up and go for mashed potatoes? You're hungry after all and your goal is potatoes.
There should never, never, ever be a case in this game where ANYONE is able to get humiliated in a one-sided stomp. Ever. So why wouldn't Killers and Survivors play this way? Why not genrush and tunnel? After all you want to not be humiliated, you want to win, so why not use the easiest thing available? There's no incentive not to except pride, and pride is the first damn thing to go out the window in a situation where you just do not want to be humiliated.
Because humiliation is painful. There's actually studies on how repeated feelings of humiliation and shame, in any setting, can cause emotional and mental damage to people. It ends up feeling similar to your body as if you have been having your heart repeatedly broken or been repeatedly stabbed in the gut as you learn NOT to go easy on anyone to avoid that negative stimulus. That's normal and that's literally actually how your brain reacts to repeated rejection and humiliation, it sees it and parses it as PAIN you're supposed to avoid.
So why wouldn't you, when gamer culture tells you winning is everything, go hard all the time and choose mashed potatoes over chips if it means avoiding pain? The chips are sharp and hard and can cut your gums, the mashed potatoes might make you look like a baby but they at least give you a break from gum laceration. Being told you suck due to how gamer culture works is all about shaming the other person for not being good enough. It's stupid, it's cruel, but that's how it works. Gamer culture is BASED on abuse and humiliating people.
And that's really sad.
4 -
Finally someone says the truth. It's almost never just Killers being sweats. Both sides sweat, pretty hard too.
It's mismatches and teammates being useless. 9/10 times my games are lost not because the Killer was being a jerk or sweating or wants to be cruel, but because they want to win and my teammate thinks I "didn't do enough" and leads them to me, or misreads a situation, or isn't anyone else's similar skill level against an equally competent Killer, or is there to grief me, or just doesn't like my face, or is more comp than me when I'm goofing around with my friends.
9/10 times it's not the Killer humping me on the floor and bleeding us all out, it's some salty SoloQer telling me to get cancer and delete the game because I DARED to be the guy that got targeted by a tunnelling Chucky, or I waited a tad too long behind a tree with my stealth build to come save my friend from a hook so therefore I deserve to have Bubba led to me when I'm one of the last two, or they think I'm a baby with 50 hours despite clearly knowing how to play because they believe THEY'RE the main character.
BHVR was right on that Reddit thread about SoloQers. Y'all are selfish. Y'all play selfishly. Y'all don't care about your team, or you're so incompetent it doesn't matter. Y'all only care about your precious escapes, adepts, challenges, etc. and it creates situations where nobody has any fun except the Killer who gets free kills on the rest of us and easy wins. And it makes me really not want to play Survivor outside of a full SWF at all, because at least as Killer my successes or failures are mostly up to my skill, who I got matched with, and RNG.
The game isn't ruined for me as Survivor by sweaty Killers. It's ruined for me by crappy Survivors. Shame on literally all of you SoloQers, be better.
6 -
I agree that bad survivors do have a huge impact on your match. There is no questioning that.
But I still have seen far too many matches with killers proxy camping the first survivor andthen tunnel hard if he ever gets off the hook.
You can blame it on skill but I think there aren't a ton of people who survive a chase with nurse with barely any distance for long. I even think the majority of players do not survive for long if they get tunneled. That may be because the other teammates dont take hits but that is also not very easy to coordinate in solo q.
Solo q players don't have the information needed to deal with these situations. After a while you will know the pattern and can assume what to do to make the best of the situation but the majority of the playerbase does not and there is nothing wrong with that.
It is very hard to anticipate what to do or where your teammates are in solo q and that makes it a lot harder to win the match.1 -
I agree that it is the most efficient strategy but I don't feel like this is sportmanship.
If I play a game that challenges my brain and my skill why do I do everything to bypass the challenge?
Yes it is hard up to impossible against comp teams but to be fair those are not as common as people think.
It was the same in Lights Out.
The challenge was no scratch marks and low vision.
People played legion to bypass it. It is smart on the initial thought but bypassing the challenge invokes the question of why even trying the challenge.1 -
Just curious, if there was 3 generators remaining, 2 of them are at 0 progress and 1 of them is at 80% do you start calling the survivor a skilless pleb if they go do the generator at 80% progress?
4 -
It's nice to see more people coming around to this realization. I've been complaining about my teammates for sooo long. Some of them are just new, so I don't blame them, I blame the terrible matchmaking. Others, however, are ridiculously selfish or purposeful trolls.
I've had some amazing solo queue games where my teammates played like they gave a damn and so we all took care of each other. Decent teammates are unicorns, I talk lovingly about those matches nonstop for a week and reminisce regularly forever after. When I play duo, if we have a good teammate who's in trouble, I'll go the extra mile and even tell my friend "I'm going to die for this unhook, make sure this guy gets out." It's nice to escape, but outside of challenges it's not important. I just want to have some fun. It feels good to do something risky and altruistic, and there's no actual danger because it's a video game and not real life. Then there are my teammates who hide on the outskirts of the map all match because apparently if they die in the game they die in real life. And I'll skip talking about the intentional sandbagging, throwing, quitting, trolling, etc.
Killers mostly play to win. Some will do things that have nothing to do with winning for no other reason than to make others miserable (lol, how pathetic, like anything they can do compares to solo queue teammates), but that's not the norm at all. If playing to win isn't fun for either the player or the opponents, that's either a flaw in the gameplay design or a sign the unhappy person is playing the wrong game. The playerbase likes to try to instruct others on how to play to win, often not to help them win more but for the advice-giver's benefit. Telling opponents "Don't play efficiently, lighten up because that's more fun for your opponent" is strange.
Anyway, I'm rambling. My bad.
Ah, now you're talking about flaws in the game's design. I agree that the game is very flawed. When the game throws serious and casual players with varying degrees of skill and possibly conflicting playstyles into the same lobbies, we end up with a lot of matches full of friction between four people who are supposed to be teammates going against a killer who probably doesn't share their opinion of just how casual or competitive the game is.
I'm glad solo queue has gained so much info. It doesn't replace the power communication provides SWF, but that's at least partially user error as is proven by the number of teammates who teabag incessantly demanding to heal me when I'm broken.
3 -
I see a logical error here. Also, a misunderstanding of your opponent.
I never understood what kind of skill I should use to kill a survivor? Do a triple somersault before killing. Why? If a regular club is enough for me to kill a survivor. Here, the survivor clearly needs to become a better player. After all, the survivor has problems, not the killer. The killer is doing well.
I would understand if the survivors always ran away from me. Yes. Here, I need to become a better player. There is just one nuance that is not being talked about. Over the course of the year, we have received many buffs to make the hook disadvantageous for the killer. Have killers become better players? Yes, but not in the way that survivors would like to see. You do not take into account the character of the one you are up against.
Why do some people try to scare me with some kind of retribution? Maybe we are waiting for them. I like to collect strong trophies. The more meta perks and prestige the survivors have, the better.
In addition to solo friends, I would like to draw attention to another issue that is usually overlooked.
Why do only camping, tunneling and slug killers find the current DBD interesting?
Where did the 12 hooks and chase killers go? I only see them on the forum, but not in the game.
You probably just judge everyone by your high knightly standards. Perhaps you are that talented person for whom everything comes easy. You just can't understand people who had to snatch victory and constantly fight for every kill. Let's say this leaves its mark, which acquires a not very pleasant character. You can call it a cynical outlook on life.
Below I will duplicate my message so that you better understand what kind of person you want to address.
He's used to constantly fighting. It's literally a fight against the entire balance, survivors and the attitude towards himself. Thanks to this, the average killer player is more adaptive. The downside is that in the process you acquire a not very pleasant character. I would say a more cynical view of things in general.
I would give a simple example in how the perks of killers and survivors are nerfed. Any fun killer build that gains popularity gets nerfed. While any difficulty that survivors get is destroyed by buffs and basic kits. As a result, the killer is constantly improving, and the surviving side has no motivation to get better because the balance of the game will do everything for the survivors.
He cares about the benefit. He will not play to his own detriment. You have different value systems. The killer wants to kill. Everything else is secondary. The only way out for you is to make it so that you enjoy being killed. No matter how strange it may sound. You will not be able to bribe him with blood points and ideas of fun. They are not interested in such things. They mostly have a lot of addons, offerings and other things to worry about blood points, and they can find fun in killing. By the way, rank is just a number that killers have already outgrown.
Killers have great patience. I mean that the basic Unbreakable will not help you. I guarantee you that you will only prolong your 4-minute agony by constantly getting up and falling. Hasn't the experience of 3 generators and the Skull Merchant chess taught you anything? Understand that what you perceive as a waste of time for a killer is more like an exciting hunt. We are literally used to wearing down the enemy, which leaves its mark on the concept of the value of time.
3 -
Im not sure I understand the comparison here.
Anyways it is not the best move because the killer will most like not go far from the last gen being that high progressed. If someone lures him away from the gen, you can try but killers with high mobility will likely come back to it fast.
Splitting gens would be better because the killer cannot be at 2 places at the same time. So (depending on how many are still alive) having someone hovering the progressed gen to keep the killer in that area while others do one other gen far from it is the better way. If the killer goes for other gens the survivor hovering can then complete it.0 -
The question of skill here is that you know how to use the power of your killer to it's max.
For example:
Chucky can do incredible mindgames because hes small, you got third person view and stealth.
Skill is knowing the max range of your slice and dice, or knowing when to use it for mobillity.
Skill is keeping track of where you saw survivors, which gen was progressed and where survivors might run according to your position and the gens left.
All these microtasks you have to wrap your head around in a match is what ultimately enables a killer to be more lethal. Of course it also depends on the experience of the survivors or how lucky they are with winning 50/50 gambles.
You can use the best build and the best add-ons (though I doublt double iri is the best for chucky but I don't know it) and you can tunnel, slug and camp. But it kind of depends on how you use this if you want to be respected.
As I said. Tunneling one survivor out early is the most efficient way but also the cheapest because solo q players often cannot counter the loss of 1 survivor. The chances of winning a match on the survivor side drops by a huge amount if one player dies at 3 or 2 gen's left.
So you can call it a day if one goes out on 5 gens.
Respect needs to be earend. And nobody will call you a good killer if you don't know how to micromanage your time in a match and just do the same thing everybody else can do.
The most lethal killers in dbd are not the one tunneling at 5 gens. The most lethal killers are those who mastered their killer and have a good game sense. Like a huntress throwing the hatchet across the map because she anticipates your movement. Or a demogorgon placing portals well, surprising survivors and having quick downs with precise dash attacks.
If you have comp teams against you, do whatever you want. I despise comp teams playing event queue and I actually think if 4 people always play together the killer should get a hint because then he at least know what kind of game hes up against.
I am not sure what exactly you are on about with the rest of your text0 -
At a certain point in my life, I realized that I'm not a sweet candy for everyone to like. I'm past the age where I not need someone's respect. I'm not a child asking to be praised for being a good killer. People who will respect me will not care that I do camping, tunneling and slugging. Their opinion will be important to me when they point out that I've overdone it in some aspects. I have some of those in my life.
I want to ask you a question: are you sure that survivors respect you and aren't shouting "Nerf, Nerf, OP, OP" on the forum right now? Are you absolutely sure that they don't perceive your displays of nobility as weakness? I think Chucky mains could tell you a lot today, especially with the new patch. I prefer playing as the Doctor.
As for the rest of the text.
Just tell me what are your character traits as a killer? Are you kind and compassionate? It's honestly hard for me to judge more noble people, but I can say for sure that camping, tunneling and slug are on the minds of killers.
To negotiate with someone, it's good to know how he thinks first. How can you negotiate with a person who is used to constantly fighting and has enormous patience. The only argument he will consider is the question of profit?
If the killer's priority is killing, and the survivor's is fun. Will they be able to negotiate if they don't understand what the other side is talking about?
(If you have comp teams against you, do whatever you want. I despise comp teams playing event queue and I actually think if 4 people always play together the killer should get a hint because then he at least know what kind of game hes up against.)
Survivors don't have any indication in the lobby whether they are playing solo or with friends. I just don't have time to figure out who is playing with whom. Any delay will cost me the game. Yeah. I agree, that's a pretty cynical approach.
My philosophy is that we have 3 sides to the conflict. Killers, solo players and SWF. Every time the game loads, one side will suffer and be in pain. I just prefer that someone else suffers, not me. I don't want to be a martyr.
5 -
You are but another tree in the vast forest of people who have no idea what's going on in DbD.
"Tunneling," "Camping," and "Slugging" are scrub-terms that came from survivors being salty about losing.
Ignorantly perpetuating this sort of bogus nomenclature in a feeble attempt to control how people play killer is the only real problem.
4 -
This is a mischaracterization. All those actions are extremely cheap moves that make the game almost pointless to play from a survivor's perspective and which generally take almost no skill to perform.
Put yourself in the survivor's position and take tunneling as an example: Is it fun at all to not get to participate in any way other than to be chased for your entire match and eliminated with no realistic chance of escape? What's the point in even playing survivor if that's what's going to happen?
2 -
For the team. Isn't it honorable to be the sacrificial lamb who saved his friends? At the end of the day, the survivors are the team. Well, what if the tunneled one's mind is "better him than me". The other 3 survivors aren't busy with the generators at this time and are thinking about how to make sure that only I survive. I have bad news for you.
It's not a pity to die for a good team. I would gladly die for survivor 26 if the other three escaped. I think survivor 26 was happy with the result.
3 -
But does the tunneled survivor usually get to enjoy the match? I know I don't find it fun in any way, and I suspect a lot of people feel the same. Maybe we should do a poll on this in the polls subforum; I don't want to assume I speak for everyone.
In any case, if the tunneled survivor isn't incredible at looping, the killer is going to have them out pretty fast, even while they spread some pressure on gens as they wait for the unhook. With a bit of slowdown, this can make a 1v3 pretty effectively, causing the match to become nearly pointless for the rest of the team. I personally play a decent amount of killer, but I would feel awful doing this to anyone outside of a bully squad. The opposing side should get to enjoy the game too :)
Either way, I appreciate the genuine comment (rather than the typical "But it's the killer's goal!")
3 -
It really does make no sense to complain your opponent is going too hard when their only goal is to eliminate you. Killers have one goal and it's to kill Survs. Survivors have one goal and it's gens. I am MORE than willing to offer my kill, offer hooks, let some people go, purposefully tie, or let people get some gens if you're struggling.
But I want to be treated like an actual human being with thoughts, feelings, and a desire to simply play the game. Not like fodder or like a horrible person just because of who I'm playing. I just. Want. To play. The game.
And the game says as Killer I have to kill you, and as Survivor I need to do gens and get out. There is nothing sweaty, problematic, or unsportsmanlike about doing whatever the game allows me or anyone else to do in order to reach that goal. This entire community has GOT to stop being babies whining about "my side my side my side" and start seeing the other side's issues, because they're substantial on both damn sides. I am so damn sick of the entitlement in this community and the NEEDLESS Killer player slander that keeps. Happening. Killer players are people who want to play Killer in the video game, not actual villains cackling behind screens out to ruin your chance at a win by using tactics the game allows them to do in order to eliminate you in the elimination game.
I think MOST Survivor Main players REALLY need to hear these, so all of you pay attention:Nobody. Owes. You. Mercy. In. A competitive. Minded. Game.
Killer. Players. Are not. Themselves. The problem.
IF YOU ARE WILLING TO BRING THE TOUGHEST PERKS, ITEMS, TACTICS, A FULL SWF, MAP OFFERINGS, ETC. TO WIN, THERE IS
N O
REASON NOT ONE TO COMPLAIN IF THE KILLER SLUGS, TUNNELS, CAMPS, AND DOES EVERYTHING IN THEIR POWER TO ALSO WIN.IF YOU PLAY THAT WAY, YOU ARE
N O
BETTER THAN THE SWEATY BLIGHT WITH FOUR SLOWDOWN WHO BROUGHT YOU ALL TO COLDWIND.The fact of the matter is this: Killer is the serious mode where you can choose mercy; Survivor is and always has been the party mode. Sweat goes both ways. If as Killer you're pushing super hard with the toughest things all the time and you care THAT HARD about a damn winstreak, you are a sweaty Killer and you are what's wrong with the game, NOT Survivors trying to have fun. If as Survivor, you care THAT HARD about escapes, genrushing, escape streaks, or doing anything other than trying to survive and succeeding/failing with your friends in a party atmosphere to the point you are telling people to off themselves for playing meme builds and griefing them for not being as serious as you, then you are a sweaty Survivor and you are what's wrong with the game, NOT Killers doing what Killers do.
And nobody likes or wants to play with you for a reason.
Post edited by SidneysBane1996 on6 -
You don't actually want more skilled Killers.
Skilled Killers that learn their characters well are a menace. Skilled Killers learn things like Urobending, how to hide and juke the Reveal mechanic as Ghostface, how to bump logic as Blight, how to use the Blink properly as Nurse. Skilled Killers learn little tricks that make you go, "HOW DID THEY GET THAT HIT THEY MUST HAVE CHEATED" but all they did was learn the game and their Killer well. Skilled Killers learn what perks work with their powers and playstyles, how to adapt, and what to do against certain strong Survivor tactics. Skilled Killers learn when to drop chase, how long to chase, when to go where, game sense, when and how and where to do tactics you consider "extremely cheap" because they're the right move in a situation… and they do those things VERY WELL.
Skilled Killer are Skilled Killers who use tactics you don't like very, very well, but also don't need to always use those. Skilled Killers adapt.
We've heard it all before.
You don't want more skilled Killers. No trueblooded Survivor Main actually does, because Survivors just wanna win these days. Kinda like they've been accusing Killers of doing for years. You don't want stronger more skilled Killers. You actually want Killers you can easily beat, so weak their powers mean nothing. Easily looped, easily beaten, not a true threat, more "fun" for you but less enjoyable for the person playing. Well, you're GETTING Killers like that with the nerfs going on recently. Now you have Killers that fall back more and more and more and more on these unfun tactics nobody likes, including Killers, and people wonder why that's happening.
When will it be enough?
5 -
Using fancy words doesn't mean your're right. It just shows that you feel like you know better even when you're factual wrong.
So take off the monopoly hat and try to view the situation from other peoples perspective.
Just because you invent names for situations doesn't mean they do not matter. Well I can tell they do not matter to you because you don't care about good games.
Saying I have no idea what's going on in dbd, yet saying survivors are just salty is the most ignorant thing I heard in this forum in a while.2 -
Well as you said yourself "good team" most of the players are in solo q or at least don't play in a squad of 4. So they lack information that would enable them to escape.
If the one getting tunneled is not that good at looping (which is not a shame because everybody starts somewhere) then you simply don't have enough time to do the gens and open the gate because this survivor will die at least at 3 gen's left.
So the whole strategy of tunneling only falls apart IF the survivor being tunneled is good at looping and IF the other survivors know what to do out of the situation and IF they can coordinate.
A lot of times people try to take hits or trade stages but this then also leads to nothing because they just get slugged and that means only 1 person is left to do gens. How many survivors can pull off a 5 minute chase?
Yes I agree that having on surv die for the others also can feel nice. But if you go out at 3 gens your sacrifice had no meaning and the match is pretty much over.1 -
But dbd is NOT a competitive minded game.
At least not for the majority of the player base.
So you with your "I do everything to win mindset" will go up against people who just got back from work and want to chill a little in the game.
BHVR never could decide wether it wants dbd to be casual or competitive and that splits the playerbase a lot.
I agree that Killers have to kill and Survivors have to survive. That's why it is called the main objective.
But by your logic we should award players with a trophy if the spawn camp in CoD and therefore have a lot of kills, because killing the other players was the main objective.
Do you see the flaws in your logic?0 -
If we put aside some points. We essentially want the same thing. The question is only in the methods and the price we are willing to pay for it.
I agree that it is not fun for a tunnel survivor, but if you play for 12 hooks, it will not be fun for a killer. The question is who will suffer? The survivor or the killer? I will tell you for sure that one will definitely suffer. Not me. Nothing personal, just business.
True, now, first of all, so that we understand each other better. We must understand what kind of killers we are. The same question as for the author. What kind of killer are you? First of all, before the introduction, we understand that we have different value systems.
The introduction will be on my side.
1 Constant struggle
2 Patience
3 I am looking for an advantage
4 I will not play to the detriment
5 I want to kill
Constant struggle - I fight with everything in the game balance, survivors and prejudice with witch hunt. The game literally hates killers. You take a killer that you rarely play. The game deliberately sends you to a map that is unfavorable for you with survivors who understand how to play. You take a killer that you are good at every game survivors spam you with offerings of Crow's Eye, Jigsaw Piece and Damaged Photo. I want to take cakes, not Sacrificial Ward which was accumulated in such quantity by 100 prestige. Now in this matter it is better, but not much. Let's add to this that it is not written on the survivors whether they play solo or with friends. When you want to win, you just preemptively hit any lobby of survivors as a SWF squad. Naturally, in such an environment you physically cannot relax and play lightly.
Patience - I've had games where I literally didn't go from the start. Only unlike the survivors who like to kill themselves on the hook, I didn't give up, but fought until the very end. You can see an example in GeneralV's thread where we talked about Skull Merchant and 3 generators. I posted a video with Freddy from 2022, where I literally killed survivors with 3 generators by sheer force of will and the old Tinkerer. I don't regret the 30 minutes it took me. I have a lot of experience in protracted battles, where I can literally wear down my opponent. I'll have fun during the process. After all, I've acquired my own concept of time that's different from the surviving side.
I'm looking for profit - Let's take slug as a tactic. I literally like a trader compared all the pros and cons of hooks and slug. As a result, slug just turned out to be much more profitable and fun. After all, now I don't have to drill survivors on the hook with my eyes. I'm constantly chasing the most fun part of DBD.
I will not play at a loss - Playing on 12 hooks gives me a maximum of 1 kill with a normal team. While camping, tunneling and slug allow me to kill survivors. However, I do not mind playing on 12 hooks for the corresponding price (kills). I admit that drilling a survivor on the hook with my eyes is not fun for both parties. Only with one nuance, you would rather die than run. Your arguments about fun and the number of hooks have zero value for me.
I want to kill - I am a man of the old faith (August 20, 2016 in DBD on achievements). In my time, killing survivors was not something shameful. You would be surprised by some videos from the developers on the release. Where they offer you a quote. Put them on a hook and them you let them die there or you stick around wait for their friends to come and help and them you grab them too. In private messages I can give that video as proof.
Now let's say I agree that the survivor in the tunnel is not having fun. In response, I ask, how do you want me to kill you so that you enjoy it? The main thing here is that I want to kill you. I understand that you don't want to die, but I still want to kill you. It's just that in case of disagreement, I will do it in other ways that you do not like.
Next, we trade that 2 survivors should die, and the other 2 escape. Then we explain to the 2 survivors that they are dying so that the other 2 survivors can escape. Taking into account the arguments that you are a team that plays for the common good. Then we complete the deal so that the killers do not play for 4 kills, being content with 3 kills, and in return, when all 5 generators are started, the survivors go to the gate and do not engage in rescue actions, giving the kill to the killer. Well, how do you like the plan?
I think it should work like this.
Let's take another example. The hatch question and 2 survivors.
You say I want the basic Unbreakable. I'm fine, but it will only prolong your 4 minute agony. You will rise and fall until all or one dies. Because my patience skill kicks in. Your waste of time is just an exciting hunt for me. Some people like fishing simulators. Here is a similar case.
I want a "die faster" button. Fine, but I will use it for strategic purposes by forcing your teammates to let you down. You will make the slug tactic even stronger. This is where the skill kicks in, it is to my advantage.
True, my hatch solution is like this. I came to the conclusion that we need to shift the endgame collapse. We make fixed gates on two different edges of the map so that it is difficult for the killer to control them. We delete the hatch. When there are 2 survivors left, the endgame turns on. Here is your 50/50 situation. Although I would go further and turn on the endgame after starting 5 generators. Or give me a perk that can remotely open the farthest gates.
In conclusion, I suggest you take these 2 statements as truth for at least 10 seconds. See the positive logical core in the cynical view of these statements. Then you can again consider them terrible and unacceptable actions.
1 By camping and tunneling, I make survivors stronger. Call it tough love, when a mother bird pushes her overstaying chick out of the nest. Because survivors will have to become stronger or delete the game. As a result, when I go to play solo survivor, my team will consist of strong survivors raised by camping and tunneling. Instead of ballast that gets all the buffs in the world, but does not become a better player.
2 Defending 3 generators forced the killer to shift all attention to the generators. In a sense, we defeated camping and tunneling hooks, because the killers did not care what the survivor on the hook did. He only cared about the generators. If we continued moving in this direction. Survivors received less camps and tunnels.
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Like in those anime where the main character is still weak, bursts into tears and thinks about how to become stronger to protect those close to him. After all, becoming stronger over time plunges evil into horror.
As much as I don't like SWF. I have to admit that this is a filter from survivors who can't hold M1. Even 4 solo survivors are capable of a lot if they understand how to play. Another thing is if everyone thinks about themselves, is he better than me, someone else will do it. Naturally, the case will be doomed to failure. A solo survivor who got into such a team will think about what to do with this ballast.
I'm telling you seriously, give me survivors with the same thinking as I have in solo. I guarantee that the killer will run away in horror or make 1-2 kills.
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I don't think there's a need for getting 12 hooks, just that people won't want to play the game when they face things that make the game pointless to play. There's very little someone can do if they are tunneled; they don't get to participate in the game except to be chased and eliminated, which isn't the expected gameplay loop.
The devs may have originally supported camping before realizing how little fun it is, but the introduction of anti facecamp shows that they understand some things will make the game worse. The thing is that survivors have very little they can do to a killer to prevent them from playing as expected. The killer always has the ability to pursue survivors. The best play survivors can generally make is to spread out on gens. Even bully squads are typically ineffective at stopping the killer. But the killer has multiple actions that make gameplay rather miserable for survivors, and tunneling is probably the one most able to do that.
Also, tunneling won't do much to make survivors better at the game. I'd suspect tunneled people are much more likely to give up on hook and just quit caring about any match where that's happening. Also, tunneling is likely to take place alongside the killer running straight to the unhook, leaving the targeted survivor unhealed. So unless an auto-heal was used, the survivor will get less time in chase this way since they're still injured. So they even get less practice looping than they should.
And don't get me wrong, there are times whe these things are likely to be reasonable. Have no kills and egc is triggered? Probably camp a hook. And I think most survivors aren't going to complain about tunneling if it's only done during egc. They've gotten to play a full match at that point and will recognize that exit gates are 99ed, so an unhook can easily mean an escape. If there are flashlight saves, flashbangs, hook sabos? Slugging might get more reasonable since you'll pobably down two people instead of one. And if there's a bully squad? Probably a slugfest...
But beyond that, I don't think we should be trying to get people to delete the game. People play games for fun, so we should probably pursue a game state where all players have a chance to enjoy their match, even when it doesn't go their way. I know that personally I never say gg to killers who tunnel, camp, or slug for 4k because they've taken actions that make the game easier for themselves at the cost of the enjoyment of the other players. But against killers who play without those tactics, I'll almost always give a gg and even compliment their gameplay and have a nice post-game chat, even when I get sacrificed or even in a 4k because everyone got to play an enjoyable game.
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It's okay, being angry at the truth is part of the acceptance process.
Well from the way you're responding, it seems like you don't actually possess the most basic understanding of what a PvP (player versus player) game is, you're sort of trying to hover in some kind of non-existent grey area.
Since the dawn of time, the object of every PvP game has been for the players to try to beat each other.
If somebody wants to "chill after work" in a game, then why would they try to do that in a PvP environment which is naturally competitive? Why not choose a single-player game which is designed for you to go at your own pace?
It's like trying to put a cubic block into a triangular hole and getting mad that it doesn't fit.
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That's why the survivors are doomed. I'm a winner in any case. Even nerfs can be used to your advantage, like in 2020 ;) A jar of spiders won't suddenly become funny killers.
You judge by yourself, but you don't take into account that the game is filled with people like me on the killer's side. This is where all the problems and misunderstandings lie. I only see people like you on the forum, not in the game. So we will continue to suffer without a solution to the problem...
(Probablycampahook. And I think most survivors aren't going to complain about tunneling if it's only done during egc. They've gotten to play a full match at that point and will recognize that exit gates are 99ed, so an unhook can easily mean an escape.)
There's only one problem with your equation. It's profitable to eliminate the survivor as early as possible. Nothing personal, just business.
All the current killer has to offer.
It's tunneling the first survivor and playing 9 hooks. Sometimes it's double tunneling and finishing off the 2 remaining survivors.
4 minute slug without hooks. After 4 slugs, everyone gets 4 hooks instead of 12. One hook per survivor if they survive. I've met strong survivors who chase almost the entire 4 minute timer of their friends.
I tried Babysitter on myself during tunneling. It helps a lot with tunneling. I could feel the power of Babysitter. It's a shame that survivors are so selfish in this matter.
(But beyond that, I don't think we should be trying to get people to delete the game.)
Have you played fighting games? To fit into a group, you'll have to train hard because all your opponents are more skilled than you. Otherwise, you'll just be a punching bag. Deleting the game would be much more merciful. I didn't say that out of malice. I just don't want people to suffer. It won't get any better.
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Which fighting games do you mean?
Also, I play a bunch of killer; there are some of us who play the way I describe. Though I'll admit that bets are off for bully squads… they get approximately the treatment you describe :/
Generally, I think that a perk shouldn't be necessary to counter a basekit ability of the opposing side. Once items, perks, and add-ons are included, then yeah, perks can be a good counter. But tunneling is very effective in removing at least one player from the game in almost every instance. And it still makes the match awful for the targeted player a lot of the time. I guess the question comes down to whether the person doing it cares about how their target feels.
But you're right about tunneling for multiple gens. Tunneling executed poorly can be a mess against a good looper. But I have to say I rarely see a survivor loop well enough against me that I think they'd keep me occupied for more than one generator duration. Though that can mean three gens pop against a very good team. So it's really critical to end the first chase before a gen finishes, or at worst, as the first one is finishing.
Oddly enough, normally I feel a little jaded talking with people expressing the same opinions as you're currently expressing. But for some reason I like your posts. Maybe it's because you're explaining in a very non-confrontational way, or you're taking the time to really express yourself. Anyway... 🙂
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Honestly I try to play for the 12 hooks and only ever go after the same survivor if they make a mistake and run into me or if im down to 2 gens and have only 2 hook stages (this rarely ever happens).
Idk what your normal game looks like and at what mmr you are. I can't tell what mine is either but considering I win 7 to 8 out of 10 matches and the way survs play I think its pretty high.
If I know I go up against comp teams I have to play different, more aggressive and more locked in. But if im up against solo q (which you will notice after a few minutes into the game what your up against) I don't really feel the need to take the easy route.
So in 5 out of 10 matches I go for 12 hooks and only in 2 or 3 I have to soft tunnel and it is very rare for me to ever tunnel hard.
Maybe I would win more often if I'd tunnel hard from the start but I don't like playing like that and I am good with the amount of matches I win.1 -
UNDER NIGHT IN-BIRTH II Sys:Celes, Granblue Fantasy Versus: Rising, GUILTY GEAR -STRIVE-, TEKKEN 8
Any of these fighting games can cause certain problems at some point. The first two UNDER NIGHT and Granblue have a small player base, which consists of people who played the previous parts many years ago. They have a huge advantage over you. You literally have to jump on the release of the game before newbies like you stop playing the game. Otherwise, your learning will be very painful. Unfortunately, this is not the topic where we can go into depth about fighting games. I think you get the general idea.
I did not come here to fight. To solve problems. To negotiate if possible. To study and teach slug. To point out how some mechanics can be perverted by killers. To remember the sins of survivors. To make pictures in Paint. To make the game better to the best of my ability.
I am interested in questions from a practical point of view, since everything else will not bring any benefit. It will end literally in nothing. I am too old to burn with hatred 24/7 towards the other side. I can do it for the theatricality of course, because our whole life is a theater, and we are actors in it.
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