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There shouldn't be any "give up" option
Why so many people are talking about "give up" option when killer slugs whole team?
Like, what do you think would happen if BHVR introduce something like that?
- Killers would stop slug, because ????
- Slugging would skyrocket because it would be the fastest and most efficient (countering anti-tunnel perks, unhook beneficial perks, endgame perks, flashlight/pallet saves) way to end trial.
If you want slugging to stop, killers must be penalized for this, we won't stop it by giving survivors options like "hey, if you want, you can go next rn, ggs". This would literally burnout a lot of players instantly.
I don't think basekit Unbreakable would even be good idea as there are some killers (Nurse, Blight), that can ######### out of spite and even basekit Unbreakable won't help in that case.
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Why not make hatch more reliable and earlier in game?
Trigger endgame collapse the moment last remaining survivor is downed. If someone would like to slug 4 man out of spite, then when 4th survivor is downed, hatch (or even 2) should spawn to actually penalize such killers.
"but someone might abuse it and go straight to the killer" - then make some prerequesites with match duration, finished gens, not activated via plot twist or sth.
If there is no hope to win, players don't want to play such game. And there is no hope when 2 gens are done & 4 people are slugged on the ground.
But concede is not a good option, because it won't penalize such playstyle.
Comments
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Slugging for the 4k is possibly the most common form of slugging. Letting the slugged survivor move on from an already lost match is simply respecting the players time at that point.
It doesn't impact the outcome of the match (the killer already won, and the survivor dies). And it doesn't give some kind of abusable mechanic like base kit unbreakable (like you said is flawed).
There isn't a perfect solution to this problem, but here's the thing:
At this point we'd take just about anything BHVR would give out, since this issue has been a much larger problem since the hatch rework, and currently they've done nothing about it.
Even giving concessions like just make the bleed out faster, and only if there's one survivor standing, and only after hitting the "find help", and it's doesn't change the outcome of the match, etc, etc... Even with all of that we can't even get acknowledgement that there is an issue.
This is literally the tiniest, least impactful way to even say "hey, this might be complicated, but we hear you" and we can't even get that far.
There isn't a knock down, one size fits all solution to slugging. But let's at least do something, anything, to help lessen the burden and start somewhere.
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Slugging itself isn't the problem, its the result of slugging. Just being trapped in a game for 4 minutes is really silly. If I get slugged for 40 seconds and then picked up, that's no different than being on the hook for 40 seconds.
If the killer wins the game via slugging, great, good for him, no problem with that compared to being hooked, IF I don't have to just be stuck on the ground the whole time.
Whether slugging itself is too powerful or not is one question, whether it makes the game unfun because of how long you're stuck in place is different question. Most people advocating for a give up option are discussing the 'fun' factor.
"hey, if you want, you can go next rn, ggs"I can't think of a time I've seen anyone advocate for instant death on slug. It's like hooks, many people don't have a problem that you can sacrifice yourself hook, its that you can do so in any circumstance.
If the 'give up' option didn't appear until one or two survivors where already eliminated, it would be an improvement on the getting slugged experience.
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Slugging for the 4k is possibly the most common form of slugging. Letting the slugged survivor move on from an already lost match is simply respecting the players time at that point.
Hey killers, if you want fast back-to-back matches, just slug.
What do you think would happen in such case when sth like this is introduced?
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"If you want slugging to stop, killers must be
penalizedfor this"NO. Stop demanding more and more penatlies to killer gameplay. Slugging is getting more and more valuable BECAUSE YOU KEEP PENALISING KILLERS FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.
You improve things by incentivising other methods, most notably stop making hooking such a huge detriment. Not giving survivors yet more options to make killer gameplay worse.
Unfortunately almost every suggestion that involves actual gameplay will get weaponised and abused to hell and back by survivors the moment they are given anything that prevents a killer from doing their objective or applying pressure.
We're at the point that survivors are their own worst enemy and frankly just need to play better. Slugging is barely even a problem anyway and its exaggerated to push a narrative.
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You seem to be not reading my entire post, so let me help you:
Let's let survivors either bleed out faster or outright give up on the ground when:
- At most one survivor is left standing, and at least 3 are dead, hooked, or slugged already.
- The slugged survivor has reached "find help" stage (so at least 30 seconds have passed).
To answer your question then, what I think would happen:
The slug gets to move on without wasting an additional 3.5 minutes for no reason.
The killer would still win the match, however wouldn't get any benefits from hooking the last survivor. (Bleed out reduces the blood point value of the kill, effects like BBQ do not trigger, etc.)
The primary reason for slugging for the 4k is to give the killer time to hunt for the last survivor. That largely goes away, since 30 seconds doesn't give much of any time to hunt, and the killer loses out on the BP and scoring of a hook kill.
A killer who is going to hook in that case will still hook. A killer who is going to slug, may continue to slug, but at least the survivor isn't stuck in the match for 4 minutes for no valid reason. Or the slugging killer may decide to hook instead.
Again, I'm not trying to target every single, possible reason people might slug. Let's start with the most common one, or really anything at all, and try to get the devs to work on that first.
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What do you think would happen if BHVR introduce something like that?
Here's what would happen:
- Survivors that would be quitting anyway by going AFK or holding shift will bleed themselves out and go next. No issue.
- Killers that want to BM or be toxic would continue to slug, but would only be able to waste 1 minute of their time (excluding any pickup/mori/hook) instead of 4.
Killers would stop slug, because ?????
I don't think anyone expects killers to stop slugging. That's what a basekit UB change would do, and not what these arguments of self-bleed out expect or ask for. You're not hindering the killer in any way with this change and only allowing people who are being BM'd to get out of that match faster.
Slugging would skyrocket because …
It would not. If the self bleed-out was mandatory, then sure. But DCs have been in the game for years and you do not see killers playing to try and make players DC for free wins because it's the "most effective" way to win. I can't claim it never happens but I can confidently say with all my experience I've never seen or heard of someone trying to get the other side to DC for faster wins, ever. And I don't think this will be an exception.
The reason the endgame mori test caused slugging is because it forced all survivors to die if they were all slugged. This self bleed out is only an option.
If you want slugging to stop, killers must be penalized for this
Sure, but now you're just misunderstanding why people are proposing a bleed self out option. No one thinks it will stop slugging. They want it because it is a change that doesn't negatively interfere with killer while making slugging less of a time waste in scenarios where the killer wants to waste your time.
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Both sides honestly need a concede option.
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if we actually want to talk about giving up vote being a "bad" option, we should actually see what the core of problem with slugging is instead of looking for new ways to reward slugged survivors and punish the killer slugging:
- slugging for 4k is literally result of hatch mechanic that is extremely outdated and kinda pointless nowadays, i don't see any reason for it still existing
- slugging im general is more rampant because hooking has been tremendously discouraged by mechanic changes and perks that literally discourage killer from hooking.
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I don't care if killers stop or not, I just don't want to have to waste 4 minutes of my time on the ground. Most people want to actually play matches, it is a minority of degenerates who play like this and want to ruin other peoples fun. So if they want to do that then they should have matches where everyone can leave and they can verse bots instead.
Or you know, BHVR could fix it so this doesn't happen in the first place?
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I think they could test out a lite version of this mechanic, maybe just when there's 2 survivors left. Since that's when I feel slugging is the most prevalent, and it wouldn't take away from killers who feel slugging is the most efficient way to play (ie Twins). And the game is generally over when it comes to slugging the last 2 for the 4k, it literally just becomes an ego thing at that point for one person while the other two have no choice but to cater to it when they'd rather be loading up their next game.
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The game can't function without 5 players.
The people are advocating for a quit option are noble, and are able to list the genuine times a quit option would be good... but unless you lut an insane number of restrictions/conditions on it, we all know that there are too many immature and selfish people who would quit on a dime for all kinds of silly things.
It's the same problem as the SoH problem, it is extremely hard to discern player intent.... so I'm against a quit option, because therr are simply too many people who can't be trusted with it.
Unless BHVR add a method of reporting people for quitting the game, where too many infractions come with tangible bans or a "regular quitter queue", such an option can't exist.
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The problem with adding a report for quitting option is players will just be more subtle in how they quit rather than outright going next. You can throw the game and get out fast without looking like you want to and in fact many already do this as killers will often slug you if they know you want to leave.
You really cant force people to play matches they don't want to, I would like to see an incentive for versing certain killers as personally I would wait 10 minutes for a game to NOT have to verse Chucky or Knight etc. But if there was a 200% incentive to queue with killers some will do it (I would not as no BP is worth versing Chucky to me).
Matches you don't want to play and slugging toxic killers just adds to the misery you are forced to endure
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NO.Stop demanding more and more penatlies to killer gameplay. Slugging is getting more and more valuable
BECAUSE YOU KEEP PENALISING KILLERS FOR EVERYTHING ELSE.Oh really? In what way?
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Yeah that's a fair point.
I'm more just highlighting the problem really than offering a concrete solutions. Suppose it's kinda a case of making it more trouble than it's worth to quit, there comes a point where if you have to jump through enough hoops to quit, it becomes easier to just play, but a report system has all kinds of issues such SWF abuse, player targetting, spite reporting, and striking a balance between being a strong enough deterrent but also not being trigger happy and hitting mostly innocent people.
Killer being lame goobers is ofc a problem I understand, however the issue is for every scenario like this... there are like 3 scenarios where the killer just exists and is playing the game normally and a baby still throws their bottle out of the pram.
Ofc maybe it's just my level of play, but 95% of my DBD problems are survivor inflicted, not killer inflicted. I operate on the idea that you should assume the killer will do things like tunnel, camp, slug, etc, and it's up to you as a survivor to make doing all those things as punishing as possible...
Camping as an easy example, 70s is a loooooong time to waste camping. If survivors are reading the game, doing gens and forcing the killer to choose between leaving to hold an important set of generators or camp, the camper gets punished hard… but that doesn't happen if all 3 survivors comes off gens to go for the unhook and trade 2 people in the process though... which I see far too often. I try to operate on a "1 person should be repairing at all times" soloQ principle. If no one else is on a gen, I am, no matter what.
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I’ve commented multiple times in multiple threads that a give up option isn’t the answer and will only incentivise slugging further.
There needs to be a variation of basket unbeakable that kicks in when 50% or more of players are downed for ‘x’ amount of time and gives a chance to one random survivor to get back up. This means it cannot be abused as both survivors and killers do not know who will be able to get back up and it incentivises hooking. If a killer wants to continue downing and leaving people on the floor they’re wasting their own time at that point.
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So, when a killer is slugging all 4 people for 4 minutes, or slugging for the 4k, your answer is to prolong an already lost game for the survivors?
Some killers are already claiming that slugging is "to prevent the 4%" self unhook chance, so you just want to allow that all the time?
Or if a killer is camping the 3rd slug to bait out the last remaining survivor you think that letting the survivor stand up and immediately get slugged again is some kind of solution here?
Unbreakable is a terrible answer to this problem in some cases.
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