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Win criteria for survivor and killer
This might seem like an obvious thing as it has generally been considered a win for survivor is escape. Hatch is draw death is loss. Killers win is 3/4k. 2k being a draw and 0/1k being a loss.
However I think many people are slowly realising that these "win" criterias are only wins based on MMR. People can't see MMR and some believe it's all fabrication anyway because MMR system is so broken. So people are not actually caring about MMR or the win criteria associated to it. It seems to me that a win for survivor is escape via gate or hatch. Win for killer is 1 to 4 kills but the scale of the win increases with each kill.
Some people have different win critereas such as BP scores, 3k, loop the killers successfully for a certain amount of time so others can do gens. The point I'm making is your win/loss might not be the same as others win/loss so when people say about killer has already won at 3k, not everyone considers that a win. It's all very subjective and it's intentionally kept that way. That's why there is never a "you win" or "you lose" after the match. It's just simple "you escaped" and killer gets varied messages such as "the entity is displeased"
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My win condition is either to have fun, learn something new, or try to get better. Trying to game an invisible number is literally pointless when the matchmaking often relaxes search restrictions in favour of queue times.
Some of my most miserable matches have been 4ks, and I've had plenty of nail biting 0ks. I could play in a way to get those 4ks. But how you act affects how others act, and tbh I couldn't care less about proving how good I am If it means sweatier games
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MMR exists, we know because all the info has been data-mined. Whether it works efficiently is really the question, and most would probably say no. But yes, most people base their win conditions on the way SBMM functions. Per SBMM, hatch is null and void (does not affect MMR at all), while killers increase their MMR with both 3k and 4k. A survivor will increase upon leaving an exit gate. Other factors, such as your opponents own personal MMR or whether you were part of a swf, will affect how much you increase or decrease by. This is all data-mined but has also been mentioned previously by Peanits. People absolutely have their own win conditions but you'll find other players are unlikely to care about personal goals.
Also I know it matters little in terms of the point you made, but I'm pretty sure "entity is displeased" was retired awhile ago because it made people feel bad. I think it's more to keep in line with the lore, hence why we don't see a "you win/lose" message
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I'll add that content creators contribute to win conditions too, as you'll notice win and escape streaks are based around 3K/3E. This tends to influence the playerbase as well.
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The MMR has those as its win conditions because they were already the game's win conditions, not the other way around.
There has been some ambiguity in the past in some areas, but the game's basic mechanics are all geared towards one specific goal on each side. There's basically no way to interpret that as anything other than the win condition for that side.
Sure, the ambiguity as to exactly how many kills you need to win existed - it's logical that you need to get more kills than escapes, but should three kills count, or only four - but even hatch wasn't ambiguous a while back, it just was an escape.
People can care about other things than winning, of course, I'm one of those players myself, but that doesn't change what the game's win conditions are. MMR being explained only confirmed those things as the win conditions, it didn't suggest them as the win conditions.
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For me more than two dead or more than two out are wins for me.
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I think is generally true and is the way BHVR designs games (Deathgarden felt even stranger).
The one thing I'd add is that from an MMR perspective the game really cares about degree of victory. 4k / 4k / 4k / 2k /1k compared to 3k / 3k / 3k / 2k / 0k - look like the same win / loss / tie ration (3, 1, and 1), but from an MMR perspective have a much different result (a 75% MMR increase rate vs a 55%, presuming no hatch). The game thinks the former is outperforming the latter, even if the community 'generally' gives them the same win rate.
whether you were part of a swf, will affect how much you increase or decrease by. This is all data-mined but has also been mentioned previously by Peanits.On the SWF part, what's the source for that? Not saying you're wrong by any means, I've seen others mention it before, though it disagrees with what I thought Peanits had said. I thought the MMR impact on survivors from whether other survivors escaped or not was always true, not just related to SWFs.
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Listen, as long as I get the equivalent of enough to pip, or I reach a set goal, I'm happy. Sometimes that means a 4k. Sometimes that means 8 hooks. Sometimes that means doing BP stuff to boost it. Sometimes that's just doing a daily, doing tome stuff, or going for an adept/cheevo.
If my entire goal is to TRY and reach a set goal for myself, I always win.
I just wish BHVR would put equal value on NOT going for total dominance versus going for it, because it unnecessarily encourages a comp mindset if you emphasize that. This game is competitive, but it doesn't need to be an e-sport, and shaming people for not escaping/not killing anyone or worse, not rewarding them for trying is discouraging and encourages sweating. If you HAVE to 4k to pip, or HAVE TO escape to pip, of course you're going to sweat if your goal is to pip.
I just do not think a tag based game should be designed this way. it feels awful to try your absolute best, and be told you're not good enough. Maybe that's how the game's wincon was in the past, but should it be the only wincon? I don't think so. I think other wincons should be portrayed as valid, too. Why does the game seem to demand perfection in escapes or kills? It seems overly stressful and pointless, and this game can be stressful enough without also being discouraging. If the goal is to have a fun chill party tag atmosphere, then lean into that, don't punish someone for not always doing their best. Sometimes I don't wanna play to my best, sometimes I just wanna vibe or learn something new or be silly. But the game punishes me for losing, so I am discouraged to be silly and encouraged to sweat.
Why is not sweating punished, exactly? Why is MMR emphasized by the pip system? Why not decouple that or allow alternate ways to pip so MMR is brought away from the forefront and into the background as intended?
Post edited by SidneysBane1996 on1 -
Pretty much like me, but I tend to think 3/4k is a win, if it's vs a very good swf then I take a 2k as a win. As survivor I go for BP and challenges. If I get a nice chunk of points or get my challenge done then it's a win for me regardless if I escape or not.
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Honestly depends for me. Sometimes if I am very chill I go for no more than 2k as a general rule, but even then I still want to 2hook the others. Just give me those 2hooks, and I'm happy to let half of you go. :)
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My life depends on getting the 4k. I need the 4k. Anything except a 4k is a crushing, devastating loss to me, and an unrecoverable blow to my ego. Stakes are high, and stress is through the roof.
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i usually consider 3k+hatch or 4k a win, while 3k+ gate is a loss for me (and everything else), while as survivor, i consider 3men through gate as a win
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Well, if the recent post is any example, apparently the killer can 4k with 5 gens still standing uncompleted, but still lose the game because the survivors cleansed one hex totem.
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