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Problems with sluggin? Then finally play with antislug perks
because that's what they're there for….
That is the truth. Yes it is.
There are so many complaints about it at the moment. Use something other than WoO, DS and DH combos. That's what those perks are for, so get out of your comfort zone.
A terrible statement? Certainly not.
Seriously, if someone has a problem with being on the floor for 4 minutes, why are they even playing? ( Don't say anything about time, you're playing a computer game and everyone who plays a computer game has time) It's part of the game.
In my opinion, developers have meddled far too much in the game of killers in recent years anyway.
So I ask: what will killers be allowed to do in the future? Survivors complain about every little thing, and it's gotten ridiculous and nerdy.
Cote would say: go play something else. Civilization for all I care.
That's just the way it is; change my mind
Comments
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People do not play DBD to be on the floor for 4 minutes, just like they don't play DBD to be blinded or stunned for a whole game.
The game is meant to be fun for both sides, not just whatever side you happen to play. It doesn't take a genius to understand why being on the ground for so long might not be the ideal DBD experience.
Likewise, I think people don't want to bring anti-slug perks because they already feel they need to bring certain perks already. It's one of my greatest issues with DBD, which is that through the elimination of variability in both Killers, maps and RNG; the game has forced players to take certain types of perks.
As a Survivor, you NEED to have anti-tunnel perks else you're liable to be removed from the match, but a lot of these perks have negative synergy, ie, you cannot use OTR and DH. You also need a chase perk to help with some of the more oppressive Killer powers, since maps cannot be relied on anymore. You'll also likely need an information perk, either to keep tabs on the Killer or your teammates. That leaves you ONE perk slot of your own choosing, which you are now saying Survivors must give up in order to counter slugging.
As a Killer, you NEED to bring at least one gen regression perk. These perks, unlike anti-tunnel, usually have synergy together, which leads to them being stacked. Most Killers do not need chase perks anymore, due to maps being FAR weaker than they used to be and FAR FAR smaller. Information, however, is still useful; but as I said earlier, with maps being smaller, information is less valuable. Still, Killers usually end up with just two perk slots free in order to have a good experience.
That is less than ideal. I would be interested to see how many of the current Killers play on maps from say, 2019, with some common-sense adjustments, of course.
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Here we go again. "The one and only killer truth". Why even bothering arguing with people that have clearly no intention on good gameplay for everyone.
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That's just the way it is; change my mind
If you want to change your mind, one thing you could try is to actually play survivor. Because currently your whole argument is basically "I only play killer so I don't care".
If you end up trying survivor, make sure to share your in-game name first, so me and others can make sure you enjoy the full extent of these 4 minutes
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'Change my mind' is generally shorthand for 'I feel like arguing for the sake of arguing'.
The problem is that there is an impasse at present. Survivors can do some really gross things on losing games to stall it out forever. The only way to 100% stop a duo who wants to play hide and seek for 20 minutes to be BM, or to try and force the killer to DC is to slug camp. It would be wonderful if it wasn't needed.
On the other hand, anti-slug perks are pretty universally bad. You've got a one use recovery, you've got a situational boon and I think that's about it.
Perks should not be a bandaid for problems like this.
Slugging is on the radar but it's a hard problem to fix. I wish hide and seek was, even if it's only fixing the idiotic number of ways you can bypass AFK crows.
DH is not an anti-tunnel perk though. It's just an exhaustion tool, like Lithe.
Honestly, the only universally effective anti tunnel perk is your teammates spreading hook states.
Maps from 2019…no. Just no. Actual infinites, at least one or two spots on each map where survivors could glitch into doodads or terrain to be unhittable or impossible to pick up.
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Maps in 2019 did not have actual infinites, as someone who played them extensively. They had god loops, yes, but not real infinites. You'll also notice I said, "With some common-sense adjustments, of course".
DH is a perk that allows you to take an extra health state after being unhooked, it is most often used as an anti-tunnel perk, in my experience. Regardless, BT and OTR do not stack, despite both of them being anti-tunnel. Hell, even the basekit BT doesn't stack and will eat any use of DH or OTR.
The only true anti-tunnel is your teammates doing gens so fast that it doesn't matter.
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Haddonfield HOP was an actual infinite against 110 killers (and near as dammit against some others). I'd have to find the video, but…I think it was Ayrun did a demonstration of it. You could break LOS long enough against 110 killers to drop chase so they'd never get bloodlust and there's that one of Otzdarva on Nemesis getting run there for about 5 bloody minutes - it's in his win streak video.
Yeah I see what you mean and there's a good reason those don't stack, as it would turn the unhooked survivor into an unstoppable body blocking monster.
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Change basekit BT to just be intangibility for eight seconds or so.
The only reason that happened was due to Claudette popping a Styptic, which used to be longer AND because Otz messed up and didn't bait out DH.
He also completely dominated the game until that point.
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So anti-tunnel and anti-slug perks are there for fun and as a gimmick, have I got that right?
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found the guy who can only get kills by slugging
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nope, too bad I can't show you my stats
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thats right and a very good point
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Who are you responding to
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This isn't Overwatch. There is no flexibility to counterswap. Limited to 4 Perks and they can't cover everything.
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exactly, and that's a good thing
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It is a comparison of fun. Killers do not enjoy being blinded or stunned the entire game. Survivors do not enjoy being on the ground the entire game. They are both unpleasant experiences that make the player question why they queued up to play. Hopefully that clears it up for you.
I would almost agree, except that in DBD, your opponent often dictates how much fun you have. As a Killer, if you play into a big time "bully" team, you probably aren't going to have fun. As a Survivor, if you play against a Knockout slugging Billy, probably not gonna have a good time.
People will always play to win, because winning is usually fun in DBD, but losing is almost always unpleasant due to the snowball nature of the game. There is rarely a close loss and more often than not, a blowout.
I have no idea what the last point means. There is an ebb and flow to gameplay, that's what makes the game competitive. There is fun in a challenge, else people probably wouldn't play Soulsborne games. There is enjoyment to be found in overcoming adversity.
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I have to agree with you. Who likes to lose? Nobody does. I'm just saying that anti-perks have a right to exist and deserve to be used.
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I think this is fair to say, especially considering killers just do their equivalent without being asked or begged. If they get DS'd too many times, they'll tunnel less. I got sick of taking forever to catch survivors, so I put STBFL/Rapid Brutality on, and even Batteries Included sometimes. Those perks don't really solve that, but they help.
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These aren't strategies that require anything other than base kit to execute for the killer.
So when you say things like
I'm just saying that anti-perks have a right to exist and deserve to be used.
And
That's what those perks are for, so get out of your comfort zone.
Your basically saying that it's the survivors fault for not running OTR, DS, Unbreakable, and Reassurance every single game with no exceptions.
It's a design flaw in the game, which is precisely the reason they had to make BT base kit, because it wasn't a choice: it was a required perk that meant you only had at most 3 perk slots to actually choose.
You're basically just saying that the game is so poorly designed that survivors are to blame for the fact that the game gives them the illusion of perk choices, but they aren't picking the exact 4 perks to make the game function (some of those perks being real money dlc, which is the definition of pay to win).
Blame the devs that the game is designed this way, with perks to band aid the issue instead.
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I don't care about punishing strategic slug. The types that you see twins, Oni and Myers do. I just want to Charlie horse ppl who purposefully slug just to laugh at you and bleed you out. There's no perk for that.
Only Exponential saves you from that.
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If it's a thing you can do basekit, the counter should also be basekit.
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It was still an absolutely ridiculous loop.
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They can be used and do deserve to be a bit better than they currently are.
However, designing a meta in which slugging is so prevalent that people feel like they need to use the perk isn't a great idea, because slugging is such an unpleasant way to have a match go as a Survivor.
Ultimately, even if you did bring the best anti-slug perk, Unbreakable, you can only use it once.
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Which is why I did not say, "Hey, let's just revert DBD to 2019" what I did say was, "Hey, we should try the maps from 2019 with some common-sense fixes"
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It was, but I think a lot of the post-Nemesis Killers can handle what the old maps have just fine.
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If you give Survivors better loops on smaller maps though, you end up with high density of loops.
Larger maps means you can keep the dead areas and the good loops, but you don't have to have the high pallet density.
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Why?
Like…a remastered retro version as an event would be fine, but you'd have to revert so many things to that era otherwise the balance is super borked now.
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Why?
I want to try it. I think it'd help the current version of the game a lot. Plenty of modern Killers can keep up, like Dracula or Houndmaster, for example.
Many older Killers already played on those maps and did fine. Like, old Fractured Cowshed? Probably something we're gonna want to adjust a bit still, but old MacMillan or old Aazarov's Realms? They'll still play fine outside of fixing bugs.
The new maps and tiles are just straight up garbage. I don't even think they can get fixed due to how small most maps are. Having better loops with more/better pallets just raises the density and hurts Killers exponentially.
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I think about this a lot when I play against current Spirit. I used to enjoy playing against old pre-nerf Spirit on 2019-2020 maps (with the exception of a certain pretentious UK streamer who would VPN to NA until eventually being banned for using cheats). And even though she's been nerfed heavily, I find her way more annoying to face now when most pallets are too short to play against her.
Give me strong killers and map resources that I can actually use against them.
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“A terrible statement? Certainly not.”
Certainly yes
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When there's 2 of us left with multiple gens to go, I don't want to keep playing a lost game. Since I, like most people, have limited play time, I want to go to my next match. Anti-slug doesn't help, just hook me please.
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It would be a cute anniversary event or something, but…I dunno about modern killers.
Dracula is strong. Sadako? Post nerfs Chucky? Trickster?
Maybe like a remastered version of older maps with the classic lighting.
I think new maps are a mixed bag. Borgo is still fairly strong for survivor I find. Ditto Toba. Nostromo is a mess - it feels huge and mazey but tiles are mediocre. Vecna's map is just ick for everyone. Reworked Midwich feels okay. Eyrie is an abomination for killer but it's better than it was (old Eyrie was one of the most miserable maps ever made). Haddonfield is very killer sided…mostly, but GoJ still has a defacto infinite possible with that one god window in main where you can always break LOS. Greenville…I still don't know but I get absolutely pantsed there as killer sometimes. Ditto the new MD.
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I try to hook you. Your buddy has BGP and drops a perfect sabo on me. Now both of you hide.
What do I do to prevent this?
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Midwich has one of the highest kill rates, same for both borgo maps. Nostromo might as well be a walmart parking lot. its just big and empty. if you want to win on greenville as killer you just never leave the area around shack since for some reason 40% of the map usually contains 70% of the gens.
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Sadako teleports and plays a pressure game with Condemn.
Chucky has more issues than maps right now. He got dunked on for some reason.
Trickster is insanely lethal in open spaces and low walls. If you play on certain maps with him, you just die.
Almost every map you listed is straight up cheeks
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I agree.
Not just because 2019 DBD before Freddy's rework was peak (a fact, not an opinion), but because you would completely eliminate the problem of maps giving you almost nothing to work with.
Especially Coldwind Farm. I really miss the time those maps weren't a death sentence.
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The funny thing is back when the roster was pretty small and m1 killers with no mobility were common to face, maps were in survivors favor. But now when maps are smaller, deadzones and swiss cheese tiles… we have a lot of killers with powerful kits who can decimate if they sweat.
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Yep! Well said, friend.
If we were to revert the maps, some characters wouldn't even feel the difference.
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I play solo queue. Let's see what I should do to make sure I have a fun game:
- Run a perk to see my teammates, so that I don't run chase to them and know who is rotating for hook in odd instances where gen HUD can't help me with that.
- Run kinship so I don't get proxy camped.
- Run anti-tunnel so killers don't tunnel me.
- Run shoulder the burden to help a teammate getting tunneled.
- Run unbreakable so I don't get slugged.
- Run a perk to pick up teammates faster so they don't get slugged.
- Run reassurance so my teammates don't get camped.
what else should we add to the list? I shouldn't have to run any perk to avoid getting bled out on the floor for 4 minutes.
Seriously, if someone has a problem with being on the floor for 4 minutes, why are they even playing? ( Don't say anything about time, you're playing a computer game and everyone who plays a computer game has time) It's part of the game.
"Seriously, if someone has a problem with waiting at your monitor for 120 minutes, why are they even playing? It's part of the game."
this would have been you several years earlier when hatch standoff was a thing, your take is just as insane now. The entire argument is that 4 minutes of nothing is not something that should exist in the game. It serves no functional purpose when the killer chooses to bleed you out solely to waste your time. It is not a good part of the game, you cannot argue that it is.
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Players of any game should not be bound to running only specific perk loadouts because some people cannot play the game like a civil human being that takes into account how their conduct may affect others.
We should not have to accommodate the lowest common denominator
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"""It serves no functional purpose when the killer chooses to bleed you out solely to waste your time."""'
You die and the killer is happy. Its simple because sluggin is Part of the Game.
"""It is not a good part of the game, you cannot argue that it is."""
Of course, it's not a good part of the game, but like it or not. You will have to accept it (as we all do at the moment).
There are only 4 perk slots and you won't be able to cover everything, and that's a good thing. Incidentally, this applies not only to killers, but also to survivors.
Come to terms with it
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Considering I've never been in a situation where someone has successfully used BGP to save me when there's 2 of us left, followed by us both hiding, I don't know what you do and honestly i dont care. I doubt you have to worry about it too much when it happens in that 1% of your games. Meanwhile, I'm slugged for the 4k in majority of the games where I'm one of the last two. So i honestly don't care what you do in your niche situation when I'm sharing my common experience.
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Off topic, but I just want to say: it's great so see you back in action. I missed your input.
On topic: absolutely agree.
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Slugging should be tackled at a game-level basis, not on the basis of having to run a perk. That said, seeing people twist now be against this argument, while countering other arguments with "Just run X!" is a little ironic. Not that that is happening in this thread, but I've seen this argument used far too often for one side, while not applying it to the other.
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Ah yes, the strongest tech in the game: 20/20 Hindsight Tech. Always bring the specific perk to counter the optional mechanic you didn't bring a specific perk to counter. Works every time.
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Infinites were removed LONG before 2019. Only exceptions maybe being Haddonfield houses with BL, but apart from that they were long gone by then.
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Still think they should revert Balanced Landing back to what it was, now that Haddonfield is no longer an issue.
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You die and the killer is happy.
So make the survivors able to skip the bleedout and die instantly after X seconds on the floor. They still die.
Of course, it's not a good part of the game
good, so we agree, then let's change all the not good parts of the game so that the game can improve, yeah?
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this is a terrible take
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