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Looking Back At Patch 6.1.0 ~ Was The "Massive Meta Shake-Up" A Disaster?
Patch 6.1.0 changed a large amount of perks for both Survivor and Killer and ultimately shaped the game to what it is today, however, I would love to look back at the perks and content changed in Patch 6.1.0 and see how well the changes hold up in current DBD compared to at the time.
KILLER
First off, I think it would be really important to analyze how the Overcharge and Eruption changes in Patch 6.1.0 ultimately shaped the meta in the months following Patch 6.1.0.
Overcharge and Eruption were insanely power perks (mainly against SoloQ) after the release of Patch 6.1.0 and could further be paired with other Generator-kicking perks such as Call of Brine or Oppression. The strength of these perks was insanely high compared to the amount of immediate effort needed to use them, you got a lot of regression over time for basically doing very little.
This ended up leading to heavy 3-gen playstyles, later being further amplified with Killer releases like Knight and Skull Merchant that lead to Overcharge, Eruption, and Call of Brine being gutted altogether.
Keep in mind that instant regression effects like Pop Goes were nerfed in Patch 6.1.0 leading to very little options for Killers to use outside of using what was the meta at the time. This unfortunately left Killer in this really weird spot where a lot of regression was really not the same or awkward to use. This is among the many things that I consider to be the biggest failure point of Patch 6.1.0; the Killer meta will always be regression and slowdown, and all the Patch served to do was shift things around without exactly solving the issue.
SURVIVOR
Survivor perks were severely nerfed during Patch 6.1.0. Dead Hard was changed to an Endurance perk and continued to plague matches and was often complained about (I personally had no issues with it though). Anti-tunnel perks like Decisive Strike were heavy nerfed, while anti-tunnel perks like Off The Record were buffed.
Specifically with Off The Record, it was insanely easy to counter just by hitting the Survivor immediately off the hook, and since Decisive Strike was insanely situational or required good positioning, it lead to a higher increase of tunneling since Survivors had no meaningful way to counteract tunneling. With the changes to slowdown in the patch, the game saw a massive increase to tunneling since there was little to no risk in doing it, this would continue to affect the game for months.
Furthermore, there were perks that were nerfed only to have their effects (mostly) reverted. The best example of this is Iron Will and Stridor. Iron Will was nerfed from 100% reduction in Grunts of Pain to 75%, and would be disabled while Exhausted. Stridor was changed to proportionally respond to these changes. Iron Will would later be reverted back to 100% reduction in Grunts of Pain but would keep the Exhaustion effect; Stridor would also be reverted back to its former self.
Likewise, Pharmacy received a buff/rework to make it more powerful but through direct and indirect changes to the perk it became worse until eventually it was reverted back to its original version because the newly buffed/reworked version was just objectively a downgrade compared to the original effect. The perk will (most likely) remain niche but it fills a specific niche that people like enough to warrant using.
Honestly. I think Patch 6.1.0 is among DBD's biggest failures. (CLOSING THOUGHTS)
A majority of the changes were incredibly short-sided and unfortunately has left a lot of perks off in a worse state than before, while the perks that were buffed in the update continue to be niche and dont stand as meta options or picks.
It is also important to note how it impacted DBD's ingame culture by increasing tunneling overall and leading the game to force basekit changes to deal with problematic playstyles because a lot of existing issues were just made further worse or were more more apparent to the playerbase.
Unfortunately a lot of the changes from the Patch also pushed the game towards one of the most hated meta to be in the game, the Generator-kicking or 3-gen meta.
This being said. Failures are important, they shape what we are or what we want to be, what is important is that we learn from failures for the sake of self-improvement… and I think this could very well apply to DBD.
EXTRA STATEMENTS
I know Patch 6.1.0 was forever ago, but I feel like the impact it has had on the game still affects the game today. I personally think it might be the most influential Patch the game has ever received. I would love to see a timeline where the ideas and changes made were never finalized and never came out, just to see how different DBD would be today compared to said alternative timeline, since Id imagine them to be very different.
I also wanted to make this since a lot of DBD Forum threads always talk about the now but often never reflect on the past. Retrospective content can often be hit or miss, but I wanted to give my own shot at it and see how it's taken.
Comments
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You are 100% correct and I already saw this, once 6.1 happen, this game just become what it is today, and not to mention ofc its why dc/quitting has been frequent so and constant on survivors.
20 -
No. There were a few mistakes in 6.1.0 including buffing Overcharge/Eruption to what they were back then and making DS 3 seconds but for the most part it was a good and much needed update.
Almost all of the perks that were nerfed in that update needed some kind of change, even if not all of the changes were the right ones. On an overall scale it was not a failure in any way, it was one of the best updates the game has ever had and most of the issues that did come with it (ie. Overbrine meta) did eventually get resolved.
4 -
I was a supporter of it way back when. I think in general their intentions were fine - increase kill rates (successful) and shake up the meta a bit (successful) - but they didn't seem to have a back up plan for anything that didn't work out.
It took them several months (9 months iirc) to address the resulting gen kick meta, for example, which I think is a contributing factor to alot of the negativity we see in the game nowadays. Imagine how many players picked up the game in those several months, who had no idea what killer was like before so as far as they knew that was simply the norm. Then it's suddenly taken away. How many now didn't know how to play without it? and still to this day can't get the same great results for minimum effort that they got back then? I imagine they're still resentful. Actually I know they're still resentful, we hear from them still to this day that that period was fine and survivors were at fault. And yes, they likely fell onto strats like tunnelling as a result.
It feels like since that update the devs have had to slap band aids repeatedly over various leaks that have continuously spouted since.
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I have to say I disagree, and I think the disagreement stems from the fact that you're only really looking at perks here when 6.1.0 was a gigantic patch that affected much more than just the perks that were changed.
For starters, just to take care of some low hanging fruit, the prestige and bloodweb changes as well as the matchmaking incentives were great for the game and absolutely weren't a failure. Those don't affect the matches themselves, though, so while I do feel it's important to mention them myself here, fair enough on them not being in your post.
Now, you and I disagree on a few of these points, so I think I should lay those disagreements on the table before I get to the real meat of my argument. First, when you talk about the infamous gen-kick meta, you say all three perks were gutted, but I would genuinely argue that's not true. Overcharge barely moved on its own since it was basically never actually good on its own merits, Eruption is still a strong and worthwhile perk, and Call of Brine was more shifted to an information perk instead of a hybrid info/regression perk. That last point might be splitting hairs, though.
You also overstate the tunnelling changes, in my opinion. You say that perks "like" Decisive Strike were nerfed, but it was just DS, that's the only anti-tunnel perk that was nerfed. The other two anti-tunnel perk related changes were buffs, one of which added a new anti-tunnel perk that didn't exist before, and they were on top of a basekit anti-tunnel system that ensured survivors could no longer be downed as soon as their feet touched the floor.
Tunnelling wasn't fully fixed in 6.1.0 and there was an uptick in tunnelling attempts as people adjusted to their new tools, but I think it's unfair to label that a failure. It's still an improvement over where things were before, even considering that the DS nerf was short sighted. It just took people a little while to figure out the best way to use the new tools so things looked worse for a bit.
So, okay, that was a lot of text for my starting disagreements, so I'll try and keep the meat of my response a little shorter to compensate, ha.
Now then, the big stuff. Basekit stuff changed, not just perks, and the things that changed were significantly better done than the problem perk changes. You talk about how 6.1.0 failed to fix there being a regression meta, and I think that's missing the forest for the trees; players are always going to bring slowdown in some form, but that doesn't mean nothing changed. When 6.1.0 made generators longer, the post-hit sprint burst shorter, weapon wipe animations shorter, and break animations shorter on top of also adding actual immediate regression for gen kicks, it succeeded heavily in making slowdown significantly less necessary than it was before. In the current state of the game, you quite sincerely don't need any slowdown to win (unless you get unlucky with a toolbox squad), and as a result, one or two slowdown perks of lower strength than what we used to have is more than enough for the vast majority of players.
Sure, most players are still going to stack slowdown for as long as the game allows them to do that, but that doesn't mean they need to do it. You do somewhat have to evaluate the game separately from overall player trends in these kinds of discussions.
Next, as I mentioned, anti-tunnel basekit exists now after 6.1.0. Before that patch, if the person rescuing you didn't bring Borrowed Time, that's it, you were just downed immediately after unhook and the only defence you had at all was Decisive Strike. The patch did weaken DS too much, that's true, but it still existed and it now existed in tandem with genuine other options, including stuff that isn't strictly anti-tunnel but synergises very well with the anti-tunnel tools that exist, like new Dead Hard and stuff like Lithe.
Finally, for the weakest but still important point, it's important to remember why this patch happened. People were sick of the exact same perks over and over again for literally years, and that was one of the major issues being addressed. Say what you will about the replacements, but the meta picks changed after 6.1.0, on both sides. Survivor slightly less so, but the old meta build of DS/DH/UB/IW wasn't the dominating combo anymore even there.
In closing, it's true that there were a noticeable number of not so well done changes to some perks in 6.1.0. Eruption, Call of Brine, Thanataphobia, Calm Spirit, and Pharmacy weren't done particularly well. That wasn't all that patch 6.1.0 was, though, and a lot of the other changes were badly needed and seriously welcome.
…So much for keeping it shorter. Whoops.
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My main issue is that the Meta Shake-Up did change the perks but did not changed the perk archetypes that were meta so it ultimately fell flat and simply just shifted the issues into a new position.
It did not solve regression being basically necessary, it only changed what perks you were required to run every game. In a similar sense, it didnt shift the Survivor meta that much either, and Dead Hard still became one of the most used perks even after the update.
If you look at is solely "did the perks that were meta shift to other perks?" then yes, it was "successful" in that regard. But in the greater picture of DBD, I feel like it ultimately negatively affected the game in the long run.
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6.1.0 was a gigantic patch that affected much more than just perks that were changed.
To be more specific, Im talking about the meta shake-up… Im going to be talking about the perk meta changes.
Patch 6.1.0 was full of a lot of good changes and QOL updates, and the Prestige rework was really, really damn good in my opinion. But the point of my post is to not talk about those, it's to talk about perk changes… since it's about the meta shake-up specifically.
Also for the sake of brevity I cant really go into a super high amount of detail or talk about every single specific or small change; in fact the original post was longer but I had to trim and change a lot since it was incredibly long and I dont expect anyone to reasonably read it.
5 -
Well, to a degree, there's only so much one patch can do.
Patch 6.1.0 certainly created the climate for the meta to shift considering how much less necessary slowdown perks are specifically because of it (and a little bit 6.7.0 too, that one helped a fair bit), like I said, but then the question becomes… how much is the patch responsible for players still seeking the path of least resistance? If the game changed such that you don't need to run slowdown perks anymore, but players still do, what should be gleaned from that? I'm not so sure myself, I think it'd be a mistake to look to one specific thing here as our answer.
There's a degree to which Eruption and Overcharge/Call of Brine being way too good affected perceptions, definitely. I still think it'd be a mistake to look directly and solely at the patch like that, though.
It's also only looking at killer. For survivor, the meta just flat out changed.
2 -
Alot of complaints from the playerbase were about seeing the same perks every game. So in that regard, I'd say they were successful at shaking things up. I recall DH practically disappearing for a period of time, before slowly starting to slink its way back in. Re regression, the devs did increase gen times by 10s, so an extra 50s total to complete 5 gens. So they may have felt that would address the need for gen regression perks at the time.
3 -
For Survivor, the meta just flat out changed.
Not really… when you look at archetypes of perks, things just shifted like they did for Killer.
Dead Hard as an Exhaustion perk continued to be meta; players who wanted distance just swapped to another Exhaustion perk, but the Exhaustion archetype has and still continues to be meta.
Anti-Tunnel shifted from Decisive Strike to Off The Record. Granted Off The Record had a lot of issues and could easily be bypassed by the Killer, but there was not a strong enough alternative. Either way, the Anti-Tunnel archetype of perks still remained meta. In fact, this was the only significant shift in the meta.
Perks like Adrenaline, Resilience, Unbreakable, Deliverance, etc. were already meta before, got no immediate changes, and remained meta before/after the Patch 6.1.0. A lot of perks were buffed to shine more, I think Lightweight is an amazing example, but they even after the buffs making them really good, they are having to compete against meta perks, and people will often opt into the meta over them, which is why the previously mentioned perks still remained meta.
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I think that's where we kind of have to circle back around to your expectations being way too high to be reasonable for any given single patch.
Even a big shakeup patch like 6.1.0 isn't going to fundamentally change ingrained player habits like that, nor is it going to change the fundamentals of the game such that certain kinds of perks aren't going to inherently be pretty appealing. That doesn't mean nothing meaningfully changed and it definitely doesn't mean there were no successes.
Meaningfully, the gameplay surrounding Off The Record is completely different to the gameplay surrounding Decisive Strike, and that's just one example. If we look at last year's top ten survivor perks that BHVR shared - admittedly outdated now but iirc the significantly less reliable Nightlight doesn't show them being tremendously different - they paint a picture of gameplay that's considerably different to old Dead Hard used in conjunction with old offence-oriented Decisive Strike shored up by Unbreakable.
There is a degree to which the specific perks changing really is a meaningful meta shift even if they're the same perk archetype as before. That on top of all the other successes surrounding the overall state of the game is, I think, a better indication of what patch 6.1.0 was fundamentally going to be capable of than the game and its players radically changing overnight.
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I think that's where we kind of have to circle back around to your expectations being way too high to be reasonable for any given single patch.
Sure. I can agree with you on that at least.
But you also have to understand the amount of advertising and hype they were building to this patch. The developers were saying that they spent months and months working on it, only for the impact it left behind to definitely not live up to the expectations, or at least my expectations.
In the current day, and not my past-self, Idk. I really disliked this patch and I feel like the effects of it has negatively impacted the game. I would personally love it if BHVR went back and took a look at the perks changed to just improve or touch things back up again.
3 -
Yes, I would say.
I don't think that patch had anything positive to contribute. It wasn't the worst one we have ever seen, but the game probably would have been better if it had never happened.
Post edited by GeneralV on11 -
6.1.0
Killers got Overcharge/CoB/Eruption meta → A lot of easy kills and giving up leading to higher MMR for the killers → BHVR did absolutely nothing for almost half of the year → Eventually problematic perks were nerfed, but survivors adapted and made all games about genrush → "omg I'm so miserable nowadays killers have to bring full gen regression build to win :((("
Literally games before this patch were about destroying totems and doing silly goofy things, after 6.1.0 it was pure genrush to even have a chance to escape.
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Im still salty about the calm spirit nerf. Why make a weak perk worse by making it take 30% longer to do totems
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One thing that is rather remarkable about 6.1 is that it made a change that made the game worse for both sides, which is really difficult to pull off, and on top of that, it laid the groundwork for another 'worst of both worlds' decision further down the line.
The move from DS to OTR was awful. DS losing half its effective value despite, to my recollection, nobody asking for it was mindboggling. With OTR becoming the new anti-tunnel perk due to the endurance inclusion, it became clear to me, pretty quickly, that this was a really bad change. Where DS was very controllable and really only punished killers that were intentionally tunnelling and playing into it, with its aggressive use hamstrung by slugging, OTR simultaneously did not work if the killer tunnelled hard enough, and was significantly less punishing to use offensively if the killer didn't want to tunnel.
Taking a hit with DS meant laying on the floor for an extended period of time, costing the survivors more time than it gains them. Taking a hit with OTR just means one mending action and you're done.
In that way, OTR was worse than DS for both killers and survivors, and I want to know who at BHVR racked their brain trying to come up with a way to frustrate both sides and more importantly, why. Such genius could be put to much better use.
The second change were the changes to Ruin, which kind of mirrored DS. It's a perk that was overall fine and didn't, as far as I can recall, garner that many complaints. But when 6.1 rolled around, just like DS, Ruin got one good nerf (For DS, this was the EGC disable. For Ruin, it disabled upon one survivor getting sacrificed), and then it got its power cut in half.
And then like a year down the line, BHVR finally rolls up to this perk with a revert… And they revert the 'disables when a survivor dies' part.
So they keep the perk in a comparatively weak state, but reinstated its effectiveness when tunnelling. Again, this decision was the literal wrong-est decision possible in this scenario. It's not killer-sided or survivor-sided because it's the worse decision for -both- parties.
I just think it's fascinating that they managed to get it this horrendously wrong.
And of course, with BHVR's 'mistakes are forever' policy, we're still stuck with the fall-out that any more responsive company might've fixed a few months in.
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Yeah it was quite terrible. Many changes were done just by looking at an Excel sheet. Popular perks were nerfed just because they were popular, without considering what impact they actually had on the game.
This resulted in many absurd changes like this:
which made killers tunnel more.
Or this:
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That's a good point too: The butchering of BBQ & Chili's and WGLF's 'side quests' made the whole game significantly worse. Before, both killers and survivors could equip these perks to create an alternative win condition that wasn't contingent on the other party losing. Getting four stacks of WGLF would not cost the killer the match, and getting four stacks of BBQ & Chili would not guarantee a 4K. But both were 'wins' in their own right since the BP gain would be incredible.
That whole concept getting removed was awful, and it's really bad that BHVR hasn't thought to re-implement them in some way.
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For survivor, Survivor just got free 10 seconds of extra hook timer, free borrow time and all their anti-tunnel and game-delay options are about as strong as before. The main nerf in survivor patch is dead hard.
killer's got 10 second of extra gens. that's it. to get 10 second for gens, their game-delay perks are significantly worse than before. it is like killer got nothing and survivor just got free omega buffs with like… basically no downside?
i wouldn't say the patch was failure, more so that it went in right direction for both sides but not enough was improved for killer compare to survivor.
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Unnecessary nerfs to Calm Spirit, Botany Knowledge and Pharmacy
"Meta shake-up" is a faulty system, what we only need is buffs to weak perks. The more strong perks in the game, the less obvious meta will be, therefore no meta will exist
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Anti tunnel which is only ds and otr is not strong. They both are already useless because of this conspicuous actions put on them and they dont work end game. If they was strong then there am sure there wouldn't be one billion tunneling complain topics.
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The extra hook timer came way later, and DS lost half its power in 6.1, on top of getting deactivated in end-game.
On the killer side, you're forgetting the reduced on-hit cooldown, the reduced on-hit sprint, and the increased speed of bloodlust stacking.
Also, those game delay perks aren't significantly worse than before, and they certainly weren't worse with the launch of 6.1.
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The butchering of BBQ & Chili's and WGLF's 'side quests' made the whole game significantly worse.
This.
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I think you're getting your updates confused. DS deactivated in endgame after 6.1, which is when it was most strongest. So no, anti-tunnel perks were not as strong.
And killers got reduced hit cooldown, and survivors got less distance after a hit. One of the primary goals of 6.1 was to increase the kill rates from 50% to 60%, which they achieved within 2 months of that update as a result of the aforementioned killer buffs.
And their game delay perks are worse now because when they were buffed in 6.1, they were used by alot of killers to stall games out to an hour. Killers shot themselves in the foot with that one.
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I disagree. I saw just as many DC/AFK survivors pre 6.1.0 in losing matches. Only difference is that killers won a bit more post 6.1.0 so it technically increased in frequency.
I agree and disagree.
Pre 6.1.0 DbD was a way worse place. Survivor queues were absolutely insane because playing killer was a misery so much of the time. The balance definitely leaned more towards killer for a bit, due to stupidly powerful regression perks that could allow a snowball or stalling the match forever.
However, there were several things on the survivor side that were incredibly strong, such as CoH that turned the game into something of an arms race, where whichever side brought the most broken stuff won.
3gen kicking was never a meta. You saw it intermittently at best, as it was also unbelievably boring and tedious for the killer. Stacking the best regression perks, often with a single info perk was (and honestly still is) the meta - which has a lot to do with how few solid lethality perks killers had (STBFL was pretty much the only game in town for a while).
I think the patch was a step in the right direction. Of course balance is an ongoing example of Achilles and The Tortoise in action, but a lot of things were done since then to tone down killers. Regression perks were nerfed hard for the most part. Survivors got a lot of really impactful buffs and the occasional absolutely broken perk (MFT is one of the most irritating things ever added to the game).
This.
So much this.
WGLF was whatever, but BBQ was one of the healthiest perks in the game.
No. Just…no. Saying OTR is useless is flat out wrong and flies in the face of just common sense.
Having second chance perks not deactivate when doing certain actions was an absolute hellscape (DS…oh boy DS). It's anti-fun for the killer. Having them in the endgame generally denies that 1k which…why would you want to do that?
They are incredibly strong, especially OTR.
Tunneling has always been a thing, and is an essential tactic at the higher ends of play. The counter to it has always been your teammates.
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Why should a killer who was bad and fail their job to catch someone be awarded a pity kill via ds or otr not working when exit gate power up? They should learn when to drop a chase and stop tunnel so much then qq swf bullies, common sense.
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You seem like a nice person.
Why should a survivor who was bad and fail to escape a chase get anti tunnel perks and baseline unbreakable to help them escape more? Hell, why are killers expected to give hatch?
Same answer.
Yes, I'm making a point here.
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The BBQ BP bonus should've been made base kit. They didn't want it tied to a perk? Fine, just make it always available and give it it's own new UI element.
Nothing about BP incentives like this should be controversial in any way.
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Dcing and giving up has been a problem for years, as long as ive been playing (since 2.6.0) survivors have been showing themselves the door at any minor inconvenience, it was even done more back then before the dc penalty came around to the point where people would jump in a locker and when the killer goes to grab them dc. You know its bad when people go out of their way to find comical ways to dc.
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Yes it was there but I felt far before 6.1 it was a lot less frequent than today.
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Here is the aftermath of the 6.1 update
Pop was killed and to compensate we got Eruption and Overcharge, which were good for a while… Before they got nuked.
On the survivor side, Dead Hard got reworked and it is meta. DS got nerfed too, was still strong, and it got buffed again in the future. Iron Will shares the same story. OTR which was a stealth perk became a "give the survivor superpowers, Mega Decisive Strike" perk, and it is still untouched today.
So, out of the update, if you are a killer you ended up at a loss, and if you a survivor, you ended up in a profit.
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90 second generators, healing perks nerfed, self care, boon, medkits. Killers not having to worry about DH first chase, smaller speed boost time after getting hit. DS nerfed to 4s and not working in endgame, prove nerfed, mft nerfed, buckle up nerfed. Map nerfs.
Killers have received tons of buffs to their basekit.
OTR being buffed is a profit for survivors after all those nerfs? Don't make me laugh, you hit the survivor after unhook and the strength of the perk is pretty much gone.16 -
That's a little skewed, don't you think?
The user above already detailed all the other things killers got that haven't yet been changed, so I'll point out that the basekit changes and perk changes from 6.1.0 were supposed to make slowdown perks less necessary, and they succeeded. The fact that slowdown perks are weaker (kinda, we still have Pain Res as a powerhouse) is fine because you don't need them to be anywhere near as strong.
Also, Eruption is still a good perk.
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Also 50+ hooks neck to neck on every map, great wiggle skills checks does not speed up wiggling no more. Endurance stacking removed.
5 -
+10 seconds when old Pop used to buy you 20...
Healing perks nerfed? Botany was buffed that patch, which you should use with Self-Care anyways. Pharmacy also got buffed, and WGLF got reworked for the better.
DS got nerfed to 3 seconds, and was still a meta perks. Then the devs decided to make it 4 seconds and it is still an S tier perk.
Prove Thyself and Buckle Up weren't even touched that patch,. MFT didn't even exist at that time, what are you talking about?
And if you think that OTR isn't a problematic perk, might as well make Resurgence give 100% healing progression, and Second Wind activate instantly, since OTR is also a free health state after a hook.
Also, for this conversation, I suggest reading the patch notes of 6.1.0, you can find it in the wiki:
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Gen defence is still as needed as ever. Eruption is basically a useless perk, as the only benefit it gives is 10% regression, which is... A missed skillcheck as a survivor. Pain Resonance on the other hand is good... If you compare it to everything else that is crap now. It only saves you 18 seconds per hook, only 4 times.
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Gen defence is significantly less needed than before 6.1.0, specifically because of a combination of factors including the total generator time at base going up, chase times overall going down, self healing being significantly reigned in so pressure from injuries matters more, and methods of speeding generators up being toned down. Most, albeit not all, of those things happened in 6.1.0 or very soon after.
Eruption gives 10% on multiple gens at once, which is why it has a slightly lower number than some other perks. It's the same idea as Surge, which has a low number but can hypothetically affect multiple gens- except Eruption has a bigger number and can realistically affect more gens. I'll happily grant that Eruption is a little killer-specific, but on the killers who can use it well it's perfectly serviceable.
Pain Res isn't only good compared to everything else, it's just flat out very good. Eighteen seconds off a gen on top of the slowdown that you get from spreading your pressure off a hook is very nice, especially since Pain Res is guaranteed to affect the generator that you'd need it to affect the most.
Remember, gen defence perks exist to support your basekit slowdown, not replace it. They always operate in tandem with the slowdown you get from playing well.
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Bet you complained about 5 seconds bt too
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Absolutely not true. Yes, gen speed got nerfed but only 10 seconds, that does not compensate the fact that basically every gen defence perks that mattered got nerfed hardly. The only gen defence that was never nerfed were Surge, Oppression, and Dying Light, which are all underwhelming when compared to old Pop, and Pentimento, which needs another perk to function. Also, gen regression got nerfed by imposing a limit on 8 regression actions per gen, which severely hinders Eruption since it consumes 2 actions on usage. Also, the fact that you have to kick gens to make it work really hinders you since, as killer, you have to really measure your time and kicking a gen really slows you down. Overall, Surge is vastly superior to Eruption and is not even that good.
As I said, Pain Resonance is good, just when compared to everything else. OG Pain Resonance was much better, since it allowed you to get 15% regression out of every hook. Pop Goes the Weasel, OG Ruin (the skillchecks one) were also much more effective as regression. Call of Brine was also better, not to mention Eruption, which made the survivors do no gens for 25 seconds. Current Pain Resonance does basically nothing compared to the old regression perks.
Gen Defence is still needed because base gen protection is basically non existent.
5 seconds BT is fine. It is strong and became basekit. What isn't fine is 80 seconds BT lol
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I mean, it was incorrect to nerf several of those meta perks (so much) like DS, Iron Will, Ruin, Pop etc. simply because they had to buff them back later anyway.
If you nerf meta perks and buff others, you just created exactly stale meta as before, just different perks…1 -
It's not just the gen speed, it's the gen speed on top of everything else.
Less time spent wiping your weapon and staring at the pallet/wall/gen you're kicking means you can get back into chases quicker, overall. Not by much, but it adds up.
Actual immediate regression from kicking generators gives you more freedom to regress those generators without perks, since the time you spend kicking can be refunded with a direct benefit in more scenarios.
Shorter post-hit sprint from survivors means they can waste less of your time by just getting hit and holding W, shortening chases overall and strengthening the value of deadzones since they're harder to escape. Shorter chase times means more pressure from hooks, which means the gens take longer overall.
Certain survivor perks being considerably weaker, especially Dead Hard, also contribute to this shortening of chase times for skilled killers and loop into the benefits from the above point.
None of these things are standalone bullet points that are supposed to radically alter the killer experience on their own, they're all part of a layered set of changes that shifted more power towards killers who know how to leverage the slowdown that's present in the game's basic mechanics.
Add in to all of that later changes like 6.7.0 reigning in totally busted self healing, and you have a state of the game that really doesn't require slowdown perks anywhere near as heavily as before. They're still good, so there's still plenty of reason to run them, but you aren't completely boned if you don't have them anymore.
Gen protection may be minimal basekit, but gen slowdown basekit can be extremely potent if you're on the ball.
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It's crazy how simple verifiable statistics debunk every single sentence in this message.
The killrates directly increased from 50% to 60% following 6.1. This is literally a statement from the developers themselves. Wow very survivor-sided, almost 1.2x less chance to escape. And they stated that their goal was to make the game killer-sided with 6.1.
Pop still has the 2nd highest pickrate (17%) which is almost double of DH (11%), OTR (7%) and DS (9%). So much for a "killed perk" and so much for "Mega Decisive Strike". Lol. It's not even in the top 10, while Pop is top 2.
Now I'm just wondering if you somehow are not aware that statistics like these exist - which mean you basically never read anything BHVR publishes - or if you just lie and hope people can't read themselves. In the latter case, that'd be quite bold, because we're literally on a forum.
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The less time spent on wiping your weapon and breaking pallets was absolutely inconsequential, as even with those, survivors can still get to the next loop. I mean, if they just hold W like bots and ignore any loop for the rest of the game, maybe these buffs do something. These things save you half a second at best.
The immediate regression is kinda nice, until you realize that it only gives you half of the regression that a survivor gets when missing a skillcheck. It still something, but considering that a survivor's time is less valuable than yours, considering there is 4 of them, gen kicking is essentially a waste of time in most scenarios.
Dead Hard is not weaker by any means. It is harder to use, but is far stronger if you menage to get usage out of it. Old Dead Hard used to either reset a loop or help you get to a pallet, which is now the role of Dramaturgy. New Dead Hard gives you a speed boost if you parry the killer, which is arguably stronger.
Finally, even if self healing was nerfed, overall healing suffered very little changes. Mangled nerf was a big one, making the status effect basically useless on most killers. Also, being injured imposes no penalty to repairing gen speed, so if healing was really slow, seeing survivors go for gens injured would be much more common. But survivors are still healing really fast and doing gens still very fast. There are games that last only 3 minutes.
Gen speed is just as busted as ever.
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Like I said, none of those things are supposed to be individually massively impactful. They're supposed to add up and operate in tandem with one another, which is what they do.
Though, I do have to point out, Dead Hard was so disgustingly overpowered that what we have now is nowhere close. It's still a good perk but it's completely fair now in a way it never was before.
Overall, the game's changes in and since 6.1.0 have been aimed at strengthening the killer fundamentals; occupy survivors and force them not to do generators by giving them other things they have to react to, like hooks. In that vein, killer got a lot better in pretty much the exact way that the patch presumably wanted.
If you play to spread your pressure, gen speeds aren't busted. They're only fast if multiple survivors are being left uncontested for a serious amount of time, OR if the team brought toolbox builds. The latter is unbalanced and needs changes, to be clear.
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The immediate aftermath of 6.1 was positive. Thanatophobia, Eruption, Pain Resonance, Call of Brine, and Overcharge were still excellent at that time. Nowadays, these perks, with the exception of Pain Resonance, don't exist anymore.
Also, if you have followed BHVR statistics for a while, you should very well know that the stats don't really represent the reality of the game. Skull Merchant was the top killer in kill rates for a looooong time. Freddy and Pig are still top killers according to the stats, while Nurse and Blight have mediocre or low kill rates.
The stats don't really count for survivors giving up, messing up because of altruism, or just being absolute potatoes. If the devs based everything out of stats, Nurse would still have 5 blinks.
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Skull Merchant was the top killer in kill rates for a looooong time
Because she actually was. People were literally killing on hook every game against her.
The stats don't really count for survivors giving up, messing up because of altruism, or just being absolute potatoes.
These don't affect Pop or DS pick rate. You claimed that Pop was killed and DS super meta. Prove it with something, or just admit you ignore stats because you don't like what they say.
Freddy and Pig are still top killers according to the stats, while Nurse and Blight have mediocre or low kill rates.
Wrong. Did you read the full stats BHVR shared in the article in question, or only the part that fits your narrative again? They shared average and high MMR stats. The average MMR part did indeed confirm what you say, Nurse and Blight were low, as expected since they are free killers and hard to play on console. For the high-MMR, absolutely not, Nurse was very clearly the best killer (with Wesker and Blight).
BHVR stats do often represent the reality of the game, it's just that BHVR don't share much of them, and then people constantly "omit" half of what that we're getting, depending on what they want to prove. The Nurse example is even more absurd that the high MMR stats were shared in the SAME article as the average MMR stats, yet I constantly see on this forum people quoting only "average" part and ignore the "high MMR" part that directly contradicts it. You're AGAIN hoping people don't know how to read, but this time you're hoping they know how to read half the article, but not the other half.
I'm not saying I'm never biased myself, or that it's easy to tell who's biased and who's not. But in your case, you are actually claiming the OPPOSITE of what the stats show.
As for Pig and Freddy, this is a basic statistics phenomenon known as Simpson's paradox. When you look at pickrate and not just killrate, you realize there are 4x less players of Freddy and Pig than Nurse, because Nurse is free, and so she will be more commonly played by new players who will decrease her killrates, while only experienced players will afford to buy and play M1 killers like Pig and Freddy. This problem goes away when we look at high MMR stats since the player experience is no longer a variable.
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there was tunnel complaints with 5 second decisive strike with no conspicuous action.
placebo changes that accomplished nothing. the difference between 24 second hold-w and 20 second hold-w is as long as before. if you get to nearly same loop as before change as after the change, the change effectively didn't help. STBFL is where buff happened and than it got nerfed. now it is like worse than before. What change addressed is that speed boost and hit recovery were SO LONG that survivor could run forward break line of sight and you would DROP chase because survivor was too far away. this more of quality of life change than something that radically impacts the game.
Also, those game delay perks aren't significantly worse than before, and they certainly weren't worse with the launch of 6.1.
aren't significantly worse? Like what?
Pop goes weasel was 25% on-kick regression perk. 20 second regression. Current pop is like 5%-10% regression perk. even if we account for base-kit kick, you average like 8%-12%.
Dead man switch was a perk that blocked every single generator for 45 second. today's version of dead man switch blocks 1 GEN for 50 seconds. super abusable perk for swf or even someone that understand how the perks by just going to any gen 1% gen, tap gen, let go. perk gone.
Pain res was 15%, unlimited usage perk with information. today's version is 20% with 1 time usage per survivor. Supposing an almost near best case scenario, where you hook and trigger the perk all 3 times in early game, you get 60% regression. the near best case scenario for old perk was that you hook 6 times on scourge hook and get 6x15% for 90% regression. even if you get 0 pain res after that, it was significantly better perk.
Ruin was 200% regression.
Sloppy was permanent mangled. now it is some useless timed perk that goes away by time you get unhooked and than some.
My simple opinion is that the patch was used as an excuse to nerf overall killer. Your post doesn't convinced me otherwise.
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You're wrong about Sloppy Butcher. It's still good.
It's 90s of mangled, which is longer than a hook state + It still counters medkit self heals, forcing survivors to either waste loads of time healing through it, finding a teammate and making them heal or sitting on a gen injured making them an easy target for killers
And that's by itself. There's other options to run with it to further increase it's potency like Leverage for example.
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If you are having this much trouble with OTR and especially with DS, then you are doing everything in your power as killer to maximise the value of those perks and you are exactly the reason why they had to be buffed back up.
Dead man switch was a perk that blocked every single generator for 45 second. today's version of dead man switch blocks 1 GEN for 50 seconds. super abusable perk for swf or even someone that understand how the perks by just going to any gen 1% gen, tap gen, let go. perk gone.
8.3.0.
Also, the original perk would block gens for -up to- 30 seconds, depending on how quickly the killer could force a survivor off a gen. The new perk -always- blocks a gen for 50 seconds. The old one would only be better if the killer is able to force two survivors off two separate gens within 5 seconds of hooking, otherwise the new DMS has more value.
Basically, old DMS was only better for camping crow.
Pain res was 15%, unlimited usage perk with information. today's version is 20% with 1 time usage per survivor. Supposing an almost near best case scenario, where you hook and trigger the perk all 3 times in early game, you get 60% regression. the near best case scenario for old perk was that you hook 6 times on scourge hook and get 6x15% for 90% regression. even if you get 0 pain res after that, it was significantly better perk.
6.7.0.
Also, it's four charges, so 80%, not 60%. Or 100%, if you go by 6.7 numbers, since it was 25% at that point.
Ruin was 200% regression.
Already addressed that one.
Sloppy was permanent mangled. now it is some useless timed perk that goes away by time you get unhooked and than some.
7.6.0.
Also, offset by healing nerfs.
Pop goes weasel was 25% on-kick regression perk. 20 second regression. Current pop is like 5%-10% regression perk. even if we account for base-kit kick, you average like 8%-12%.
Basically leaving only this one as genuinely being worse off by being considerably less effective on gens that have less progress on them.
Of course, off-set in part by being made partially basekit.
Ironically, the maximum value lost on this perk (That is, kicking a gen at 20% progress, not counting the basekit Pop) is less than:
placebo changes that accomplished nothing. the difference between 24 second hold-w and 20 second hold-w is as long as before.
So I guess we could call this a placebo change?
STBFL is where buff happened and than it got nerfed. now it is like worse than before.
Do you know by how much?
0.036 seconds.
Dreadful nerf, really.
What change addressed is that speed boost and hit recovery were SO LONG that survivor could run forward break line of sight and you would DROP chase because survivor was too far away.
Hold up, wait a goddamn minute: First you're complaining that it was a placebo change and now you're trying to claim it was a change of vital importance?
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i think sloppy is garbage. you can believe it is good and i won't argue against it.
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Also, the original perk would block gens for -up to- 30 seconds, depending on how quickly the killer could force a survivor off a gen. The new perk -always- blocks a gen for 50 seconds.
the original perk was obsession perk that had same functionality of blocking gen for 45 second after letting go. Look i know your survivor bias and your trying correct me but please stop. The version your talking about is nerfed version post 6.1.
Hold up, wait a goddamn minute: First you're complaining that it was a placebo change and now you're trying to claim it was a change of vital importance?
my point is that killer changes were quality of life changes.
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