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Entire Sections of Maps Are Just blank

ChuckingWong
ChuckingWong Member Posts: 432
edited December 20 in General Discussions

Legitimately no reason to paly survivor anymore these tiles are hilarious.

I dont know how many have noticed but there is just NOTHING for 1/4ths of maps. Sometimes there IS something in that 1/4th but guess what kind of pallet you get ?

You get these new silly useless things they have added to corners that are SO BAD that holding W gives you more time and chance to survive. Can get a screen and post it here if I really feel like loading into survivor again but Fs sake this is terrible

This game has turned into "hope the killer is an idiot" to have any semblance of a match time.


What are you doing BHVR?

Comments

  • jajay119
    jajay119 Member Posts: 1,095

    my biggest pet peeve this year has certainly been the massive uptick in unsafe loops.

    I’d rather there have been a general reduction of pallets but have more effective ones.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 16,357

    I am of the opposite opinion - mainly unsafe Pallets, but lots of them (and no Bloodlust, since this makes fair unsafe Pallets unfair).

    The problem is if you have effective pallets, but not many of those, one bad Survivor who throws them fast can basically kill the entire team. But if you have loads of unsafe Pallets, a good player can get more out of them and a bad player will not kill their team by throwing them early.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,851
    edited December 21

    Yes this is one of the reasons I no longer play outside of events. One or two maps I can reason that maaaybe the map balancing team went a little bit overboard that day. But as time goes on its happening to more and more maps, unannounced of course, and it's become evident that this is intentional. There's nothing more disappointing than loading into a map and running the length of one side and realising it's just a massive deadzone. No resources.

    I'll add that those useless edge map tiles on newer maps are a big part of the problem. If they've programmed it so only a certain amount of pallets spawn, then what happens when RNG spawns them mostly along the edge? Game is over before it's even began

  • zarr
    zarr Member Posts: 1,032
    edited December 21

    I think both approaches have merit, and some maps could follow one and others the other. Hell, they could even have more static procedural generation of pallets on some maps, where one half of the map spawns few but strong pallets, and the other plenty but weaker ones.

    But I do definitely want to see more of the "lots of unsafe pallets" design approach. Greenville is one of the only maps where this is the case, and I think it plays really rather well for both sides. As you say, bad players don't ruin a survivor group's chances by throwing pallets willy-nilly nor do they ruin the killer's since even despite the amount of pallets they have available, they are unsafe and require good mechanics and thinking to actually prolong chases with.

    In general I think a lot of BHVR's tile design would instantly become much more interesting and worthwhile were these tiles to spawn much more densely. Even very weak tiles like corn filler pallets or edge map Z-walls or edge map filler pallets could become really rather engaging and compelling to play if they spawned in clusters such that they can be combined. This is easy to understand if one just thinks of placing two Z-walls directly adjacent to one another: these are some of the rock-bottom weakest tiles in the game, to the point where they are a meme in the community, and yet, if you have two of them side-by-side, well, lots of cool things can happen. And then imagine a Z-wall next to a bracket pallet gym or 4-wall or the like. The double-pallets on Greenville (and Lake Mine) also demonstrate this: very weak pallets in their own right that are basically guaranteed hits, but if you use both in combination the tile becomes rather good and interactive.

    Same goes for the many other unsafe tiles, be it weak filler pallets or those new weird maze tiles they keep plopping on maps, LT walls, … - spawn these in conjunction with one another (as well as next to standard maze tiles) and they instantly have much more merit, but without becoming OP because it takes a good player to actually make good use of them and they still offer more outplay potential for killers than strong tiles. Them still being weak in isolation is also relevant for good players, for one thing because Bamboozle/Crowd Control/Dissolution/etc. or depleted pallets can simply force the chase into the isolated tile without the ability to chain it, and for another because various killer abilities also make this chaining of multiple tiles much less feasible. So even if two weaker tiles combined could be just as strong or stronger even than one good tile for a good player against an M1 killer (in theory, anyway), this changes drastically if the killer has a potent chase power.

    In general with regards to the original topic I'll say that while maps have shifted drastically from what they used to be years ago (most maps used to be very survivor-favoured, with a select few killer-favoured maps and a handful of well-balanced maps; these days, there are just as many (if not more) killer-favouring maps as there are survivor-favouring ones, fewer that skew horrendously toward either side, and many more maps are reasonably well-balanced), I don't think it's as bad as the original poster makes it out to be. Yes, there can be very unfortunate deathzones of seas of rocks and trees, and some maps are egregiously killer-sided (Haddonfield, Sanctum, Forgotten Ruins, Thompson House, Abattoir, Temple), but overall it has gotten much better than it was when they initially started messing with the pallet/tile budget. I think BHVR has a decently consistent handle now on basic layout and structuring and a fairly consistent safety rating. There are still notable problems even on the basic level (e. g. Coldwind), but apart from few exceptions I never load into a map anymore as either role and feel at a stark disadvantage just because of it.

    It would be more productive to share screenshots and clips of these deathzones, as that can help BHVR idenitify possible issues in their spawn algorithms as well as perhaps let people share tips as to how to play certain tiles in certain areas.

  • GeneralV
    GeneralV Member Posts: 11,715

    Honestly, I want Original Chapel.

    Whatever that design entails, because it was the perfect map.

  • Rogue11
    Rogue11 Member Posts: 1,483

    Yea I don't get the infatuation with filler pallets. They aren't any more interesting to play as killer either. Just loop around the short side once and get a free hit.

  • Lixadonna
    Lixadonna Member Posts: 324

    Even the pallets left are junk that you can't even play around with. Survivor get locked in animation which is time for Killer to react and hit anyway.

  • OnryosTapeRentals
    OnryosTapeRentals Member Posts: 1,088

    Loading into any maps like this as survivor is just an immediate killjoy. Like what am I actually supposed to do on Lampkin Lane? There's maybe two usuable pallets in the middle of the street (if RNG is favourable). It's such a joke. Any half-decent killer will win EVERY time against an average team on Haddonfield.

    Same goes for the nonsense that is Rancid Abattoir and new Cowshed. Like there's just nothing to use. DbD map design pains me to no end.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,445

    Agreed. There's a certain level of unsafe where the pallet becomes a free hit every time if the killer player is any good. There's a fine line between too safe and a free hit.