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Victor shouldnt down
So the twins isnt a very good killer, i will admit that. The devs made an attempt to change the twins but it wasnt implemented because it made the slugging problem worse.
so my soultion is….
just activate deep wounds or something. That way it would give slow down. Make it so a second or third pounce debuffs the survivor until healed.
im just so tired of bleeding out against them. Just had a 4 man bleedout. even when victor was destroyed and they were ontop of us...no hooks.
At least basekit unbreakable. I want to have fun and not lay on the ground for 4 minutes doing nothing.
Comments
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Yes, it always happens against good Twins, this killer is too punishing for attempt of basic altruism
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So make Victor absolutely useless and the Twins - which is already pretty bad - even worse? Also, we should never see basekit unbreakable.
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forcing the survivors to mend and debuff them is useless? already better than the legion like that
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So making an interessting killer a slightly better version of legion that is horrible on himself is a good idea for you? Don't we have enough killers that are worthless to play?
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Making a game that is fun for EVERYONE is objectively a good idea. I challenge you to enjoy survivor, when the only thing you can do is crawl. you can try it out as killer even, if victor gets crushed by a survivor, you are now not allowed to do anythign besideswalk incredibly slowly. set a timer. EVERY single killer has had aspects about them updated and changed to make matches more fun for each player, it isn't the end of the world. And i also said DEBUFF the survivors upon hitting them. make gens hella slow, healing hella slow, etc. there are so many options outside of "bleed out for four minutes".
and i was using legion as an example because they also can injure multiple survivors extremely quickly. like victor. Would you like me to use other killer that also have a mend mechanic as well?
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You know what people would say when you change them how you proposed? "Mending simulator, gens take too long, medkits are useless against her, she does too many things at the same time", I'm sorry but ether you'd have to change her completely or get used to it because your idea is simply horrible like this.
Besides that I played against them and I got slugged too but how many twins do you ever see? I saw maybe 3 in the last months lol, no one plays them because they are mostly horrible enough to play, they don't need to be even worse.
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mending simulator is infinitely better than slugging simulator. at least after you mend you can play the game you paid money for. And i am not attached to my idea, that is why i said "or something", meaning i am open to whatever idea there is to make the game more enjoyable for EVERYONE. I really don't understand this communities aversion to mutual enjoyment and healthy change. "I suffer therefore you must suffer". or ya know, make changes as needed to promote entertainment as well as a healthy community and if a killer is lacking after said changes…give them a buff. You could make victor pounce further or faster. make it so survivors cant hold him hostage. you could add AI to victor so when you're not controlling him he can scout survivors for ya. There are options outside of "slug. tis the only way".
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Well then you're one of the people that don't have a too big problem with legion (never understood it, sure you can't do much besides mending but who cares, he can't get you anyways).
Now to the things proposed:
faster and further pounces don't matter if you can't down, hitting with victor isn't too hard.
Holding hostage is a necessary evil, I'll explain it after the rest.
Ai doesn't work on any killers that have it until now, nemesis zombies, knight slaves and houndmasters dog all bug out once in a while to consistently at one point in the match. Also who cares if you know where they are, would this alone be a good ability doctor would be played more and ranked higher, yet again doesn't matter without the ability to down them.
Now to the explaination I've talked above. They tried to do what you proposed (kinda) by making them more like legion: twins were all of the sudden stronger than nurse in some cases lol. They did it like you said basically, you could injure everyone without hostage holding or the ability of being kicked and you could only down one person per victor (the main difference), the only way you could kick him is if he missed you. The lack of cooldown between injures or the ability of being kicked made him increadible lethal, so much so that it wasn't really possible to do anything at all anymore. While you could change that he can be kicked after a injure that would make him useless, making him able to only down one person and leave the rest like it is would make them to weak.
I'd rather have a killer that is at least playable in some state than one that's another skullmerchant or completely op. Twins power has just too little room between madness and uselessness, it's just increadible hard to make any balance in it. They are just slightly annoying and not too strong at the moment, so that's okay for now.
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More enjoyable for everyone except the Twins player. She just has to deal with it I guess.
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so….
if it isnt fun to play the twins
and…
it isnt fun to go against the twins
would it not make sense to rework them to facilitate an enjoyable experience for both sides?
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The problem with twins is victor is too cheap and easy to use. He's a little baby gremlin that moves at like 200% speed across the map. High mobility, looping is impossible, and his pounce is pretty much impossible to miss when he's hugging you.
If we could kick Victor while he was charging his pounce, at least that would leave some incentive to keep his distance and actually make some skilled pounces and get rewarded for it, rather than survivors punished, punished, punished, 4man slug on the ground inevitably because Victor is so OP.
Houndmaster also seems to have been a good take on this theme. Imagine if Victor could leap out of Charlotte's chest, and then you could control him for a few seconds before he disintigrates or something. That would probably be a lot better than the slugfest we have currently.
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It would. Just not in the way you're suggesting. Having Victor essentially be useless when a survivor is injured wouldn't be very fun for the Killer.
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Why the terrible suggestion? Just say "I want the three twins players to stop playing the twins"
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Mending is 12 seconds. There are usually 4 times as many Survivors as Killers, so time is 4 times as important for the killer as the Survivors. So unless you can unleash Victor, find a Survivor and hit them in under 3 seconds, in a way where just hitting with Charlotte was not an option, it will make Victor absolutely useless against injured Survivors.
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Suggestions like this is why we have SM and few other killers in the state they currently are.
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I agree that making the game fun for everyone is a great idea (even tho that's almost impossible to achieve), but with your suggesstions you would make Twins so weak to the point that playing them would make them misserable, so kinda going against your point of making the game fun for everyone.
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so do you not view killers as part of the "everyone"
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I truly am sorry for all people that do this. Whenever I play the Twins I do the more fun thing which is trying to use both of them as much as possible. I don't slug 4 people or something I maybe will leave one person on the ground if he is across the map but everyone just gets double trouble from me. Victor is on one side I am on the other. Instead of a slug fest I give the survivors a more enjoyable experience while also not intentionally screwing myself over. Sadly people tend to slug with her too much. Which again I am sorry to hear that. Also most of the time survivors just dont let victor go I guess they think it is a good idea has not caused me too much trouble but it does happen as a strategy I guess
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so Im just gonna quote you but refer to the others with a similar sentiment. IDK if you read my other posts but i openly state that playing the twins is also unfun. I repeat i openly said that playing the twins is unfun. I openly state that the twins should be reworked to be enjoyable for both sides. if i say that playing as the twins is also unfun…i think it should be clear that I am also requesting improvements for the ones that play them.
So let me reiterate. I say "twins are unfun" and I say "twins should be reworked for everyone". By that I mean the slugging that comes inherent with twins is an issue for both sides. An issue that can be addressed in a rework which has many different ideas and potential solutions.
Now people are stuck on the mending suggestion. I offered several other suggestions including a "literally anything" meaning i do not care about my idea or other ideas what i care about is finding one that suits everyone's needs. That being said. Simply saying "No" isnt offering any meat or feedback to how you would improve the twins so killers enjoy playing them and survivors aren't on the ground for 4 minutes. So unless you are here to offer a real suggestion, a way to improve the gameplay, or why you think the twins should stay exactly how they are. Dont comment. it adds literally nothing to discussion.
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comments like this is why discussions never go anywhere. Add something meaningful or don't comment just for the sake of sarcasm and rudeness. I had several suggestions, if they are bad explain which one is bad, why they are bad, and how you would change them. You could add your idea for the twins as well.
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You can say that you find current twins unfun, but I don't see how any of your suggestions actually make playing as Twins more fun.
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The core problem would be the slugging playstyle. I wouldnt say its the twins fault they just have an ability for knocking down injured survivors. But against some playing them normally, there wouldnt be much of a point in using victor if the person you are chasing is alredy injured because they will gain distance/time on gens/ and a free kick to victors face while you gain 1 injure survivor slightly more injured lol.
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I think an AI victor that scouts and I can also swap too would be really fun. But that is my opinion, and yours is the opposite. So what is your opinion on how to make them more fun for both? Try to come at it from an unbiased "killer main" mindset please.
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The slugging is a huge issue. Your right that it would make victor kind of useless for people who play normally. What if instead of an instant down there was a time limit to get victor off before it downed the survivor. So they would take the initial damage and if pounced on again, they would be clawed at by victor and unless they get him off via help or ani in match item, they would go down.
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Twins is a weird case where they aren't very good unless you play them comp effective. Playing Twins comp effective means slugging hardcore with Victor and ruining everyone's good time, there is zero strategy and thus it feels unrewarding.
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The last sentence was absolutely not necessary, shame on you for us vs. theming in a balance discussion to benefit both sides.
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yeah it was uncalled for, youre right. I just lost my patience with all of the comments in every post just being passive aggressive, rude, people ignoring large swaths of discussions, or offering nothing to the discussions outside of being accusatory and meaningless. Thats all on me though, shouldnt take it out on the community cuz that just adds fuel to the fire.
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So is Twins the next killer y'all want to Skull Merchant'd now ? Honestly kinda surprised, I didn't think they were enough people playing them for survivors to get their panties in a twist over them.
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Understandable but please know: People do not have the spoons to respond to every single post in the thread, people have their own opinions on things that could have nothing to do with your opinions, and most critically - Tone is really hard on the internet. It could be nothing more than people being bad at discussing stuff online.
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I don't think it's a good idea, it would basically be another useless Legion that only gives mending and has nothing else after that.
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at that point they would just be a legion copycat . The fact that you can down and then chase someone is kind of what separates twins from the rest . Maybe make victor stay with a survivor he dows so he can't just down the entire team in a minute if they're injured.
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