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Gen repair needs to get longer for real
Title. Bringing up the issue because it's ridiculous
Comments
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I made a Gen build video where we popped all 5 gens in 4 minutes flat. Averaging 50 seconds a Gen. very easy to do, the killer didn’t stand a chance and we could’ve taken a 4 man out but ended getting greedy and all dying trying to get the 4 out but yes Gen speeds are very problematic. All gen speed perks need to be changed and toolboxes need to not work on gens and I think that would fix it.
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Hard disagree, gen times are currently perfectly fine.
The issue this game has with gen speed (that exists outside of poor decision making for the killer player, that is) is exclusively tied to toolboxes. They're the only thing this game has that pushes gen repair speed far enough that it becomes legitimately problematic.
Toolboxes should be reworked to provide a different benefit than gen repair speed, and the problem would then disappear.
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80 seconds gen time → BHVR decided to increase gen time to 90 seconds → Killers instantly bring powerful thana (it was literally nerfed next hotfix because of how obnoxious it was) / slapped 4 gen slowdown perks to make this even more miserable for survivors → For like a half of the year almost every match was vs CoB/Overcharge/Eruption → Those perks got nerfed, but survivors still have PTSD from it and are more efficient in doing gens.
If you want someone to blame, I'd blame greedy killer mains & the fact that BHVR was so hesitant to balance that meta, back in the day (~patch idk, 4.something) in my SWF there was literally dedicated person for destroying totems and one dum dum that run around the killer trying to blind him, now 1 person is chased and 3 are slapping gens.
Also survivors are doing gens because invocation perks are trash and with absurd downsides, teamwork perks doesn't exist, boons are nerfed and not worth even bringing to the match - once again, killer mains got what they wanted 🙆♂️
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Keys are useless, medkits are way worse than they were (and for self-heal it's same time across all medkits with dedicated nerf to Bothany Knowledge), lets make another survivor item trash.
Coming next patch: let's make flashlights useless without some kind of battery addon, why not?
Post edited by vBlossom_ on8 -
Framing it like this kind of misses the fact that toolboxes are too strong, though.
The correct takeaway should be that we should buff keys and maps to meet the same benchmark for balanced strength that flashlights and medkits already sit at, while nerfing toolboxes down to reach that level too. This is something I've supported myself elsewhere, my position is consistent.
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Defending old circle of healing somehow
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yes and while we’re at it let bubba teleport around the map too. Oh and make the survivors start injured as well. That way the game can just be handed to me.
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They arent too strong, they serve their purpose. The problem is as mentioned 3 people on gens is currently the meta rn no reason to interact with anything else because gens have been nerfed that hard.
Not to mention every FUN perk to use gives no bloodpoints, meanwhile farting as killer gives you bps atm for the most part.3 -
No, they're definitely too strong. They serve their purpose extremely well, and give far too much reward compared to other items and other sources of generator speed. Hell, they just give too much in a vacuum, they're insanely strong.
Or, at least, some toolboxes are. Part of the issue is that brown toolboxes are kinda bad and yellow toolboxes aren't much better, but the greens are insanely busted at their jobs- the Commodious especially.
They are just flat out too good. I've used them myself, I definitely know from experience.
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Ah yes omg lets make toolboxes do 5 percent only and killers will still cry.
Commodious is fine, it just buffs it for longer, at the price of the speed. I think even with the toolbox they do like 35 percent over 20 seconds, that's still a lot longer, than the conversion rate of others.
Hyperfocus + Stakeout are far stronger than commodious could even dream of being when used correctly.
Survivors should have options for items, killers need some anti-momentum basekit if anything to allow for more mistakes (Corrupt/Deadlock)
Nerfing toolboxes will not fix anyones issue lol1 -
The Commodious is the strongest gen repair toolbox overall because it's the most sustained, and Hyperfocus + Stakeout are in fact at their strongest when paired with a Commodious, among many other perks you can bring to catapult that toolbox into absurdly broken territory.
I will say this: I don't really support just nerfing the toolbox's repair numbers, I don't think there's a satisfactory way of doing that. I think the best thing to do is to rework the toolbox's gen effect to do something else, like providing a shield against regression or something. That way the truly broken stuff toolboxes can do is prevented entirely, but they still have a good generator/sabotage split.
Also probably collapse the different kinds in a little, there doesn't really need to be that many. It's just kinda filler for bloodwebs and chests in my opinion.
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Fair I would like toolboxes do more interesting things, same with medkits.
We just need more creative solutions than number goes up, number goes down that's healthier for the game, I hope the devs listen to this.3 -
if toolboxes were to be nerfed (and treated in same way as medkits) I think there should be some buff applied when generator is finished or someone is healed via some medkit.
Medkits could hide your aura for some amount of time, show aura of injured survivors while healing, finishing gens could give you Haste effect for some amount of time, show gen with most progress, show 3-gen or sth like that.
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I'll be honest I would 100% support a nerf to a bunch of gen regression/slowdown perks in exchange for 10 seconds longer on generators. Because it does sometimes feel like you almost HAVE to bring 2 gen perks as killer. However gens can also be kinda boring so I would like to see them bring a new Skill Check to them, just make it the Skull Merchant Drone hack but only 3 instead of 5 so and increase the chance for skill checks by 10% so it's a bit more engaging and opens up a bit more of a chance to speed up gen progression with good skill checks.
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The number of times where I go directly to the survivors right at the start of the game (I have lethal) and the time it takes for me to get to the closest gen being repaired is enough for a single survivor to have repaired at least 40%. And that's just me walking straight to them at the start of the game. If it's 2 or more survivors, the gen is usually about 90% if not.popping when I reach it. At this point it's so tiring and common that I already consider the game starts with only 4 gens so I don't stress about it.
And for killers that dont have lethal, getting 3 gens popping in the first 1.5 minutes of the game is something that happens in probably 9/10 games. By the time it takes me to cross 1/2 map searching for the survivors, minimum 2 gens are done, and when I finish the first chase 1-2 more gens are off. And no, it's no skill issue when you literally havent reached the gens to stop them.
Not to mention that kicking gens is a joke that does nothing at all but waste your time or trigger nowhere to hide...
And no, survivors don't usually have gen rush builds, but the gens pop even faster when they have toolboxes.
As for survivor, same thing. If i bring a toolbox just sit for like 50 seconds in a gen and I'm done. If no toolbox add a few extra seconds and that:s it. It's so f#cking boring that I can just be pressing the button with one hand and scroll through instagram with the other hand because I don't even get skill checks...
Like, "Succeed at 6 skill checks" was such a pain in the ass yesterday to complete in 2v8 because we were at 3 gens left and I only had faced 5 skillchecks... And that's the norm. 1 skill check per gen AT MOST.
In normal games it's so boring to play survivor when you focus on the objective of finishing gens and leaving... I still remember that match where 4 gens popped to a poor trapper in the first minute before he could get into a single chase... And I wasn't even carrying a toolbox that time...
Every single game is either sweat hard and try to reach the survivors working on the closest gen to maybe stop the gen poppig in the first minute, or just press a single button for a minute and the match is 80% over... boring af... No wonder why I barely play anymore…
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you're asking too much. If it involves effort you know bhvr won't do it...
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I don't no, who the killers are playing who say people pop four gens.In the first two minutes of the game. I find eighty percent of the matches I load into not a single survivor escapes. It's gotten to where I often load in with a key, because I'm often the very last survivor right? And there's no way you can get the gates open. Especially now that they're so close to each other without getting killed. They did an update. I think about 6 months ago where they started clustering. Most of the generators together and the exit gates are so close now. Good luck, unless you load in with I killer, that's not very proficient pretty much all survivors die unless you're lucky to load in with a good crew. Which is extremely rare.
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Unfortunately (or fortunately) increasing the base repair speed will not fix anything because they're not really the problem, the reasons why gens are "so fast" are because exhaustion perks and toolboxes/gen perks exists, and Unfortunately they'll never be fixed because heavily nerfing them still means that they are in the game, just look at deadhard for example, still a strong perk (not overpowered by any means, in fact, I think deadhard is the only really balanced exhaustion perk)
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I assume that as Huntress main you could have too many auras perks and nothing for generators or make another way to create a pressure for survivors. Killers who play with generators perks and at least mediocre in chase definitely have more than 50% killrate. I don't want to scare you, but generators are also meant to be done and you have time to kill people during endgame phase too.
Also you described about how fast first generators usually get done in your game, but it's okay. Usually first generators are done fast and next are getting done slower and slower.
Usually my games end when there are 0-2 generators left with 3-4 kills and usually I use only one perk for generators. If I'd wanted to, I would definitely create so much more pressure and repairing gens would feel terrible and senseless. So saying that generators repairing speed should be slower is absurd. Play both sides and try to be more unpredictable in your games as killer.
Post edited by JustElf on3 -
Thats why I run Pop, Pain Res, Dead Mans and Grim. What gen?
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I play survivor only mostly since I have 0 killer challenges left, and oh boy, doing gens is the most boring thing ever! With 0 gen repair perks and no toolbox, it's just sitting in the gen for a few seconds with maybe 1, if you're lucky 2, skillchecks and that's it... I literally scroll through IG while doing gens, that's how easy and boring it is. If another survivor is helping the time gets shorter, if I have a toolbox even shorter, perks even shorter...
Doing gens is so boring and easy that one of the hardest chellenges as a survivor you can get is "Succeed at X skillchecks repairing a generator" because they simply dont get you skill checks...
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Generators are already taking forever to finish. Making them longer is not possible unless if we are not asking for 90% kill-rates.
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Yeah sure lets nerf survivors more. At this point I only play with friends solo que games are pain if you keep nerfing survivors nobody will want to play them because it is literally annoying chore to do generators.
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IMO, the increasing hook stages by 10 seconds granting an additional 20 seconds of hook time for each survivor was unnecessary. It outpaces the increase of 10 seconds per a gen and helped tilt the scale backs towards fast gens since hooks now provide less time pressure.
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How much longer are we proposing?
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No I think it was a necessary step to make this games new player experience where it should be, all the people on here need to stop gutting the game and making it more and more unforgiving for both sides.
It's about time we looked at allowing mistakes, and letting new players learn and stopping all the inaccessible bullshit like Skill check doctor, Dredge nightfall, Survivor flashlights (a dark mode for killer mains), make anti-camp visible for everyone.
What you killers need is anti-momentum, stuff to stop the game from being too one sided instead of relying on terrible unhealthy perk design that BHVR is selling us as a solution.
I'm so over blaming accessibility for newer players, when this game could get so much more love but this developer just throws stuff out without thinking half the time, and the recent survey shows it.
I've been playing so much less recently because this game does not respect casual play on either side anymore, while also taking away all of the interactivity for learning.
Sort it out.3 -
Medkits are still the most powerful survivor item lol
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So if you think that doing gens is the most boring thing ever, why should it take longer for survivors? When you'll actually do gens enough in your matches and gonna win, you'll up your MMR and see how miserable and hard it feels to just complete more than 3 generators against «anti-genrush» build. Try to make a goal to break 3-gen, not just finish random generator. Usually it's harder, especially on the maps where 3-gen spawns are very common and known by killers. You'll feel pressure that you don't just sitting on generator for 90 seconds but also interacting with killer who protects it.
It's boring when you know that killer tunnel someone so you just chilling because you know that you're totally safe for next 90 seconds.
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This
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it should take longer and have a permanent Merciless Storm (with tweaked penalizations for failure).
The whole system needs an entire overhaul tho
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amen
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10 second longer hook time, stronger sabotage with all toolboxes, whenever a survivor perk got nerfed it got either a (partly) rework or a buff to make up for it, bhvr announced better scratch mark visibility for killers but then decided against it, Survivor bots got several AI improvements, Chests got a massive buff to the point to the point where using them can actually be helpful, Skull Merchant and Chucky have been nerfed into the ground just because some Survivors don't like them.
Survivor have been getting tons of buffs this year. A nerf to survivor can't really be considered to be nerfing them "more"
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Okay time for the counterarguments. The 10 seconds longer hook was added because generator time got increased and camping was very viable option so they added it to compensate. If you see survivors who try to sabotage all game well you slug them. Survivors bot are absolutely worthless because all survivors kill themselves on hook instead of DCing Chucky has always been strong with his built in confusion in loops from his size as for Skullmerchant nobody likes a killer that shuts down every loop instantly and forces a hit. And if you think all the worthless survivor perks that got a buff is so bad think again they are niche not nearly as strong as the still sitting at the top meta with second chance perks. Also for chests if you think getting a brown toolbox or medkit is AMAZING buff I have to disagree with you there. All the buffs for chests were given just so survivors choose to do something else besides generators. But if you want the changes reverted so bad feel free to ask but we will have only one thing to do and that is generators.
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I don't think increasing the gen repair time is the way to go, gens are already the worst part about this game for the Survivor gameplay, being just a glorified loading screen.
What I see as a problem is toolboxes, they can consistently make the gens very fast, reworking them into providing different effects onto gens instead of speeding them up could work.
Or finally adding a second real objective into the game, reduce the time it takes to repair gens, but add a secondary objective that isn't just a loading screen and activelly makes you interact with the map and the Killer, I have heared about the idea of fuel tanks, where gens would need to be fueled to count as finished, you would need to travel around the map to get them and carry them to generators, imagine Xenomorphs turrets but as a necesarry thing to repair generators.
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First of all: None of this matters. You argued Survivors shouldn't be nerfed more. I responded by arguing you can't say "nerfed more" because Survivors have been buffed this year. If the buffs were justified doesn't matter. Your comment implied Survivors got nerfed recently. This is not true.
The generator time was increased over 2 years ago and the game has been fine. I don't think they are related. In addition to that, you need to repair 5 generators to win, but there are up to 8 unhooks.
You could slug sabotage squads before as well, but they were still pretty strong. Slugging them is harder now since they buffed We're gonna live forever. Also, now in addition to sabo squads, Survivor can be opportunistic and sabotage with gen toolboxes which was technically possible but way too slow before.
Skull Merchant is literally the worst killer in the game now. She was pretty easy to counter before, because you could pick between being scanned or taking a hit, so you could just take the scan the first two times and then take the hit. She was high C tier before her Nerf, but because she upset Survivors who refused to learn her counterplay she got nerfed.
Iron Will got buffed and is now in over 10% of Survivor builds. Deceisive Strike got buffed and it is still very good. Ressurgence got bufed and now its in almost 5% of all Survivor builds. The buffs definitely have effects.
Chests got buffed to the point where Chest builds are viable. Sure not as strong as Lithe Resilence Adrenaline Finesse, but being able to consistently get amazing med kits consistently is pretty great.
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First bhvr needs to properly calculate MMR, taking more into account than simply kills/escapes.
Then, for SWF groups, bump their MMR up accordingly depending upon the team sizes.
Then, at certain thresholds of high MMR, increase generator time required for all survivors. Killers at high MMR also get longer hook stage timers, and a few more pallets on the map.
SIMULTANEOUSLY, with these adjustments to gen times for high MMR games, camping, slugging, and tunneling need to be addressed in a meaningful way.
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Please nuke toolboxes and all gen perks on both sides.
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This. This is the answer.
Gen times are fine. Gen charge reduction is fine, gen perks that make it faster are fine, teaming on gens is fine.
It's toolboxes and the stacking of them with these other things that makes it a problem. Why on earth do we need all the above, AND to make gens go 50% faster? Why do we need a game that last 8 minutes and ends with us all butt-dancing in the endgate easily because the Killer hasn't got enough time unless they bring gen perks themselves, gen perks we all hate going against anyway?
Balance and normalize toolboxes like we did with medkits, and leave the perks and other things alone. Please. It's frustrating for Killer, and it's unfun for Survivor when you have a Killer that feels frustrated and stressed and plays like it. Then adjust Killer gen perks to compensate so they aren't all-powerful and we don't have a genblock meta again.
I don't understand why this is so hard when every event, we don't have rarities on toolboxes because we always get the best kind of toolbox as an event toolbox, the equivalent of a Commodious which is the problematic one. I shouldn't be able to slap three gen perks and Lithe on, bring a Commodius BNP+Spool, and do a gen in under 20 seconds. I shouldn't have to bring generator slowdown to even stand a chance as an M1 Killer. We should not have to do this.
Generator progression speeds should never be faster than 20%. Generator regression power should never be higher than 20%. Period, end of.
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Gen speed is really fast BECAUSE the killer can knock everybody down for the win.
If the killer couldn't "slug" everybody for the win, THEN you'd have to touch gen speeds.
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