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Make Stealth a more viable strategy
The Stealth mechanic is, unfortunately, almost dead. There are a few reasons behind this: bad map design(!), some detection Perks that can’t be avoided and the fact that it is not rewarding enough.
Most people complain about looping but there is no other viable way to avoid the Killer and win. If the Stealth aspect were revised, maybe the matches would last a little bit longer.
The following changes may improve the Stealth game:
1. Survivors should be able to crouch lower
I have seen some videos on YouTube and I have noticed that in the early stages of the game, the Survivors were able to crouch significantly lower. When crouched in the grass, it would cover like 90% of their bodies and the Killer had to be really close in order to see them. The props covered their entire bodies. This should be a thing again. Nowadays male characters can’t hide behind most props.
2.Adjust the map design
Add more props/walls/grass/bushes/reed, mainly in those areas where the Generators are. The Generators should not be placed in the open fields. The main culprit here is Autoheaven. Haddonfield, for example, is a really good map for Stealth. So is the Swamp.
3.Buff the following Stealth Perks:
Calm Spirit:
Animals seem to trust you as they often stay calm in your presence.
Reduces chances of alerting Crows by 80/90/100 %.
Your calm spirit can overcome the urge to scream as well as all of the Killer’s attempts to determine the Location of your physical structure.
[Now it counters: all the notification bubbles such as the one Rancor makes (except for: the Bear Traps, Generators and the explosions made while interacting with props), as well as Killer Instinct, Whispers (it won’t light up unless someone without Calm Spirit gets within range), failed healing Skill Checks performed on you and it prevents ALL screaming]
Premonition:
Increase the range to 40 metres and reduce its cooldown to 45/30/15 seconds.
(This gives the Survivors more time to react)
Lightweight:
Scratch Marks stay visible 1/3/5 seconds less than normal. When a Chase is initiated, the perk is on cooldown for 80 seconds.
(Now it helps you not to get seen in the first place, but it won’t help you loose the Killer in a Chase. I have used this Perk during my first 300 hours and although the Killer was 36 metres away and there was a building betweeen us, he still managed to see the Scratch Marks.)
Distortion:
Give it 5 tokens.
(So that it effectively counters Bitter Murmur. BBQ won’t really be affected whereas everyone gets into a Locker when someone is about to get hooked anyway.In addition, very few people run this Perk.)
Technician:
The Auras of the Generators that are being worked on by a Survivor with Technician won’t change colors.
(It counters Surveillance/Tinkerer/Discordance/Certain addons)
4. Give the Killers something to help them win Chases more easily
5. Some changes to the Evader Emblem:
Start Points: reduced from 100 Points to 50
Points received for being in the Killer's proximity without being chased: 1 Point per second
This value is affected by a distance multiplier:
- within 5 metres: increased from x6 to x12
- within 10 metres: increased from x2.2 to x6
- within 20 metres: increased from x1.1 to x3
- within 30 metres: increased from x0.5 to x1
- within 45 metres: increased from x0.3 to x0.5
- within 64 metres: increased from x0.1 to x0.25
- further than 64 metres: increased from x0 to x0.1
Points lost for being hit: increased from -10 Points to -20 Points
Successful chase escape multiplier: increased from x2 to x2.5
Comments
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I think stealth is fine as it is, if you're having trouble just play Claudette and crouch
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I agree with xStansfield nothing is wrong with current stealth. My trouble is loosing the relentless killer once they run into me, just bad luck on my part. Claudette is a good "invisible" character so is Feng Min. Wearing dark colored clothing to not stick out as much will help too. Also playing a match or two as the killer will give you a better perspective of what they're looking for so you'll know what to avoid when you're the survivor. And you didn't mention anything about sound either, 75% of the time that's how the killers find you. They follow your scratch marks until they stop, then listen.
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Honestly just remove BBQ's wallhacks and we'll be in a good spot with stealth again.
Literally every game as a survivor you have to play as if the killer can see your aura after each hook. It feels really cheap to get caught out by it and sometimes it's just plain unfair, especially in the cases of Nurse and Billy.
"b-but then killers will just hook camp!" BBQ is a BAND AID to a fundamental design problem with the game encouraging hook camping by forcing survivors to rescue their teammates from hooks. Why leave the hook when you'll eventually have another survivor run in and rescue the hooked guy?
Killers could camp the hook anytime they want with or without the perk and it could be a more viable strategy than leaving it, especially for one-shot killers like Leatherface / Billy / Myers. BBQ is just an INCENTIVE to leave it. It does not FIX the problem.
The devs can make Kindred baseline for survivors to mitigate the effects of this design flaw, but camping is still going to happen whether BBQ is in the game or not. So just get rid of the aura reveal, it breaks the immersion and capacity for stealth in the game to have a killer know your exact location seconds after hooking someone.
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Lockers or distortion hard counter bbq so no bbq doesn’t stop the good stealth players.
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I think they can add another stealth perk where every time a generator nearby is kicked, your breathing sound goes down and you get a % boost to gen repairs for a few seconds. And that may help stealth survivors who actually do gens if they feel they need a boost against killers who are high tier and or patrol gens well. Especially helps if you end up in a game where like 2 people or 3 people DC.
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Stealth is boring to play as and against. Please ignore all of these people as Blendettes can still hide as is.
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The underline problem with stealth isn’t that you can’t hide, it’s that there isn’t any reward for doing so. You lose points in evader and bloodpoint for staying stealthy, so why would you ever do so unless you are new to the game or playing against the nurse?
and no I am not saying there should be a reward for playing stealthy. I don’t need my allies having more of a reason to crouch next to the walls at the edge of the map.
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I use Iron Will, and that is the only stealth I need. Even without it I still do excellently.
The problem with stealth is that most Survivors dont know how to do it. They think that hiding behind a nearby tree or pallet is enough despite being predictable.
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A stealth buff would be nice because the mechanics around stealth have mostly been forgotten. Stealth isn’t fun to play against as killer because the meta has become to chase, chase, chase. Stealth gives less points, so that’s a dissuader all by itself. I am looking for a more compact crouch, more bps, and more dynamic mechanics in a stealth buff.
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The killer perks to help find survivors aren't really an issue or what's killing stealth at all. The core reason it's weaker is because of poor map design that doesn't promote its viability and how overly strong just pallet looping is.
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Excellently ? How often do you escape from a Trial completely unseen/unnoticed by the Killer exactly ? If you manage to escape unnoticed half the time (5/10 matches) considering you were not playing on Haddonfield or the Swamp, which are actually the only two good maps for Stealth and also having in mind the fact that the Killer was not being looped the whole match by a single Survivor (if he gets looped the whole time he can't look for others so this does not count) , then you are indeed an excellent Stealth player.
Unfortunately, I manage to escape completely unnoticed in only 1/10 matches or so.
By the way, Iron Will is not Stealth. It involves you getting seen and injured. If you get seen you are not being stealthy.
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Stealth is perfectly viable, it's my main playstyle and works very well. The point of being stealthy is that you should know when it's time to change tactic and run.
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Whispers, Rancor and any other detection Perks/Addons (Like Class Photo or Amanda's Letter for example) that do not have a counter do play a major role when it comes to finding a Survivor as they reveal your location no matter what you do. Killer Instinct is also disgusting: I injure someone and I get to see everyone within my Terror Radius (it's very similar to Scratched Mirror; oh and then there's the Iridescent Button addon which makes your Terror Radius affect the whole map so that you can see everyone). Perks like Whispers and those who create bubble notifications, as well as Killer Instinct should be countered by Calm Spirit.
Distortion should also be buffed so that certain Aura Perks/Addons (I am referring to those that cannot be avoided, the others are perfectly fine) can be countered (or in case of Scratched Mirror/Class Photo, delayed more).
Sometimes I wait for the Killer to patrol the Generator I plan to work on only to have him return a few seconds later because he had Whispers.
Another example is Bitter Murmur. Your Aura gets revealed for 5 seconds no matter what. 5 seconds is enough for Hillbilly/Nurse to get to your location. (if DIstortion had 5 tokens it would prevent this)
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You are right, Iron Will isnt stealth. That means I need absolutely nothing to stealth!
Also, it is unrealistic to say that you will spend the entire match unnoticed. That means that:
A) The Killer is bad because they are chasing the same person/people.
B) You arent playing stealthily, you are playing immersed.
As I have said before, the game isnt only about chases, but also about stealth. Likewise, the game isnt about full stealth, but also being found. The game doesnt cater to either side because it takes both into consideration, because their intended game is a balance of both.
If you are bad at chases, you will get hooked. Thats why you have 3 chances by default.
Anyway, back to the top. Iron Will is stealth. It helps those who are failing at chases. Stealth is pulling a juke and losing the Killer mid-chase, just as much as not engaging at all.
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If you equip 4 Stealth Perks and plan everything extremly carefully but you still don't manage to evade the Killer the whole match because he uses an unavoidable detection Perk/Ability/Addon or the bad map design comes into play, then there's no way Stealth is perfectly viable.
If you rely on Stealth and Survival only, you should be able to completely evade the Killer and escape but in order to balance this, you don't receive as many Bloodpoints/pips as the others.
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Stealth is fine I run a stealth build with jane and almost every time either escape or die last.
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I see...
There were a few matches though, when everyone else died and while evading the Killer and using Left Behind, I somehow managed to repair 2 Generators (there were 5 Gens left), find the Hatch and get out 😀
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It could be way better though... if Perks like Whispers had a counter
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This is simply incorrect information. Firstly, you are picking very rare and ultra rare addons. Those are rare exceptions, not the norm. Secondly, those killer perks that help find survivors are situational in when they activate and a lot of the time limited information. Lastly, there are multiple counters to those perks that you are completely ignoring. There's a reason not many people run them.
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The main problem with stealth is you don't gain points towards the evader emblem.
I've been in games where I don't get spotted once by the killer, no chases at all (expect maybe when I'm messing around in the exit gates) and I still get a bronze emblem, sometimes silver.
If the devs made it so you gain a lot of points if you've never been chased/had very little chases, stealth would be completely viable.
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I have leveled up Myers from P3 Level 1 to P3 Level 50 and I have gotten 11 Scratched Mirrors and 10 Vanity Mirrors. I only grab those when they are in the way since I don't plan to use them anyway (because they are disgusting). When I have leveled up the Pig the same way I have gotten 18 Amanda's Letter. Those Addons are not that rare.
How is Whispers situational? As soon as it lights up you know you have to patrol the area a little bit since there is a Survivor there for sure. It doesn't even have a cooldown or anything and 32 metres is not that big. Imagine what happens if a Nurse (who's main weakness is Stealth) runs this Perk... she will become unstoppable.
Rancor triggers whenever a Generator is completed and unlike Whispers it also pinpoints everyone's location for 3 seconds. It is pretty likely that when one of the 5 Generators pops the Killer is in the area of one of the 4 Survivors, which means the Survivor will get found. I got found this way because the Generator popped when the Killer was near me.
How can you counter Perks like these? How can you counter Killer Instinct ? If you run away as soon as the Legion hits another Survivor while you are within his Terror Radius doesn't mean he isn't aware of your Location. He has already seen you. If he knows which way you went he will catch up pretty fast.
If Whispers and Rancor are "situational" Perks, then why shouldn't Calm Spirit for example, which is also a situational Perk, counter them ?As it is now, Calm Spirit is way more situational than these Perks (it doesn't even do its job perfectly because of the Restraint Addons/Scoring Event). It should also counter Killer Instinct as it doesn't completely deny Feral Frenzy (the Legion can still vault pallets but he won't be able to see the Survivor who actually uses Calm Spirit). Nothing stops Whispers/Rancor/Killer Instinct from triggering while Calm Spirit is a gamble, it's only good against the Doctor.
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The reward for playing stealthy is … SURVIVING! XD
But since surviving and escaping doesn't mean anything to "survivor", it is not a reward in itself, which it should.
All the detection perks survivor complain are garbage… name a single detection perk that can't get outplayed or/and is non situational.
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Only read the OP and couple of comments after. Agree that stealth play should be rewarded more - you could play a whole game, do gens, avoid getting seen by the killer a single time, make saves, escape via hatch or whatever and still not get a pip cos you had no chase points etc.
Also, think Insidious Leatherface, camps basement entire game, survs do all the gens, open doors, escape - nobody gains any progress in rank, complete waste of time, you'd be better off just all 4 going down and taking the hit, someone have BT and DS and actually get more points for having been hooked than if you left the game completely undetected.
Anyway, it's gone downhill with this last update for me, no longer the fun it was prior to it, and whilst it's not necessarily due to the ranking system DIRECTLY for myself it sort of is as it's leading to other survivors just racing in for unsake unhooks leaving any stealthy approaches left shaking their heads at it after wasting their time trying to do it 'properly'..
@Wolf74 - maybe taking out of context as have not read what you're responding too perhaps, but a single detection perk that can't be outplayed? Whispers.
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For me, I tend to stealth a lot with the appropriate killer, but I make haste at times when we need to finish gens or to quickly rescue or heal someone. Though I only stealth with Claudette and Nea for their clothing and perks (Urban Evasion, one of my favorite perks ever, let's me to even out-stealth the Pig.) As a Meg or other characters, I tend to only stealth with the killer passing by, then quickly run back to objectives or getting away from the area. (I like to keep same perks to the same characters unless they suck *cough* *No Mither* *cough* *give it a blood-point bonus* *cough*
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Firstly, P3 1-50 is NOT the average killer. You have increased chances of getting those items at P3. There are also only a few killers that even have addons that show auras and most of those addons are just okay at best anyway. Myers mirrors? Those are for meme's, hardly strong against any survivor that's even half way competent. You are getting looped into oblivion and that's not even mentioning how map dependent those addons are to even be decent.
"How is Whispers situational?"
Well to start off Whispers isn't even that great unless you are down to the last survivor remaining as multiple survivors including hooked ones throw off its ability to pinpoint. It also is countered by lockers. Knowing a survivor is in the area is also in most situations a wasted perk slot as survivors don't care if you know where they are as pallet looping is so strong. There's a reason you don't see many rank 1 killers running this bar a few exceptions that need it like Huntress. It's because it just isn't as good as you think it is on most killers and in most situations compared to other perks. A decent survivor knows how to manipulate a killer using this, it's not hard.
"Rancor"
This is a ping and not an aura read, that is WAY less valuable than you think it is. Unless you are literally standing on top of them they are going to be gone by then. It also shows the obsession YOUR aura. Lastly, same situation as with Whispers, decent survivors DO NOT CARE if you know their location. The looping in DBD is so strong that killers knowing your location is quite irrelevant. This is the entire reason you don't see most killers using any of these "Finding" perks at rank 1, because finding doesn't doesn't mean anything. This is also why most all the killers that are good at finding survivors are all some of the worst killers. This isn't a find game, it's a chase game.
"How can you counter Perks like these? How can you counter Killer Instinct ?"
Killer Instinct isn't a perk or any ability in the game, where are you getting this? Most all of these "finding" perks for killer aren't even used. Even if they were, survivors have multiple stealth perks to improve their stealth and most those killers perks can be countered by LITERALLY just playing differently. You don't even need a perk to counter them.
"If you run away as soon as the Legion hits another Survivor while you are within his Terror Radius doesn't mean he isn't aware of your Location"
The killer knowing your location in DBD is worth way less information than you think it is. Also, Legion is broken design and getting reworks soon so he is not a good point of comparison.
"If Whispers and Rancor are "situational" Perks, then why shouldn't Calm Spirit for example, which is also a situational Perk, counter them ?"
Those killer perks are situational because in most situations the information they provide isn't worth that much. If your argument is you want buffs for Calm Spirit sure, it's a weak perk. However, those killer perks aren't that strong to deserve more counters. They're already not worth a slot in most cases which is why no one does. Like I said before as well, Legion is a bad comparison point as he is broken and is receiving changes soon.
You really just hate being found? Run Spine Chill or Premonition. Boom every "finding" killer and perk in the game you just countered with only 1 perk. That's fair right? Myers is literally the only exception to this when in tier 1 and honestly even with a mirror if you lose to a Myers staying in tier 1 that is a skill issue on your part.
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"Well to start off Whispers isn't even that great unless you are down to the last survivor remaining"
It is ! It's the most broken Perk in the whole game. Today it destroyed my momentum 3 times. The Killer came to my Gen and even if it hadn't been worked on, because of that Perk, he patroled the area and found me. It would not be that big of a deal if the map design were better. Unfortunately, there were only one rock and a few trees there (which is the case of many other areas). I had nowhere else to go. I always look for the usafe Generators first, wait for the Killer to patrol them/be in a Chase and then start repairing those, so that the safe Generators are left for the endgame. Whispers denies that. AND it is extremly good against the last Survivor as you have said.
"It also is countered by lockers"
It is not 🤣
"Survivors don't care if you know where they are as pallet looping is so strong"
"You really just hate being found?"
If you get seen/chased you will eventually go down. If you go down, you won't receive the Iridescent Unbroken Emblem.
Yes I do hate getting seen. Not only is it very likely not to get the Iridescent Unbroken Emblem but I will also have no choice but to depend on my teammates to rescue me from the hook/risk getting camped. These days I died exactly 9 times on my first Hook because they refused to rescue me. I wasn't being camped. Two times there was a Generator really close to my Hook and instead of rescuing me, the Survivor chose to repair. After the Generator had been completed, he didn't bother to come for the rescue, he just left. Usually those guys get hooked before I do and when that happens I always try to save them. I don't have a free slot for Deliverance by the way.
If you don't get found, you are more likely to get more points in the Benevolence category since you are the one who rescues those who got caught. Also, if you get chased the whole match you won't be able to do anything else and you will depip.
Jake is supposed to be "The Solitary Survivalist" which means he has to be independent. If you don't get seen, you won't get hooked and you won't need the other Survivors to come and save you. 🤣
Seeing my (sometimes) arrogant teammates who loop, getting injured and then hooked while I'm still untouched feels satisfying. 😀
"Rancor
This is a ping and not an aura read, that is WAY less valuable than you think it is. Unless you are literally standing on top of them they are going to be gone by then."
I was found a few times because of it, 5 seconds after a random Generator was completed. It's not as strong as Whispers though.
"Killer Instinct isn't a perk or any ability in the game, where are you getting this?"
It is part of Feral Frenzy lol 🤣 It refers to the moment you stab someone with your ability and everyone else's Location within your Terror Radius gets revealed. It cannot be avoided no matter what you do.
Whispers, Rancor, Killer instinct (and any other similar Perks that can't be avoided and show the Location of your body to the Killer as a "bubble notification" which might be added into the game) should be countered by Calm Spirit. Currently there is no solid way to avoid those. Since most Killers use only 1 detection Perk at a time it will be balanced: My Calm Spirit counters your detection Perk (not if it is based on Auras though).
"Run Spine Chill or Premonition."
I do run Premonition and it really helps against Killers with no Terror Radius.That's the only reason I equipped it. When it comes to normal Killers though, the 4 metres head start is quite useless. If Premonition triggered within 40 metres instead of 36, then yeah, it would be much cooler as it could even allow you to leave some unsafe areas unnoticed (it would give you significantly more time to react). If Premonition were to be buffed this way, maybe the bad map design wouldn't matter that much.
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There is a lot of incorrect things you are saying and you are using a couple strawmans for your arguments as well. We also have already agreed that the maps are poorly designed and need reworking. I don't mean this insulting at all but I think you need to play the game more as a lot of these opinions would change with more hours of experience. Based on your opinions I'm assuming this experience is at least rank 10 or lower. I have none of these stealth issues at rank 1 and that's without even using any stealth survivor perks.
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Ppl who want stealth ontop of the current mapdesign are kinda mad. So a killer takes much more time to find you, ontop of that a good survivor can prolong a chase for at least 60 seconds. Where do I get my 12 hooks in during the 5-6 minute of gentime?
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"@Wolf74 - maybe taking out of context as have not read what you're responding too perhaps, but a single detection perk that can't be outplayed? Whispers."
Of course Whispers can get outplayed. I have done that a lot of times. Especially if you see the movement pattern of the killer giving away that he is using Whispers.
Whispers only seems powerful if the survivor is hiding in the same spot. Just keep moving, use cover to relocate, every bit helps to make Whispers less precise. It needs the killer multiple times going back and forth in different directions to make a triangulation, that's a lot of time to react and a lot time wasted by the killer.
And especially at the start of the match Whispers isn't that strong anyway, because multiple targets give unclear readings from Whispers. Only versus the last survivor it is really strong.
When I play killer, I only use it to know if I am wasting time in an empty area, but I don't try to pinpoint people, because of what I wrote above. To unprecise, to easy to confused.
Whispers only seems powerful to survivor who never played killer using it themself.
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Well said
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Those who say Whispers is not that great... ARE WRONG!
If the Killer has it, no matter how good you are at Stealth, you will not escape.
I could have escaped again if it hadn't been for this DISGUSTING🌡️ Perk.
We were playing on Autoheaven against a Nurse. She had Whispers (her first pick obviously), NOED (I have nothing against this one), A Nurse's Calling and BBQ&Chilli (those two are perfectly fine too). The others died pretty fast and I was left alone with 4 Generators. I don't blame them - it was a Nurse afterall. The Nurse's weakness is supposed to be Stealth. But what if she equips detection Perks like most Nurses do ? She will become nearly unstoppable (if she has Whispers and she's skilled then she WILL be unstoppable).
The match lasted around 25 minutes. I was trying to hide in the area of a Generator, keeping my distance, and start repairing it after she had already patroled. If she hadn't gotten Whispers, thanks to my Left Behind Perk, I would have been able to repair the Generator in 40 seconds while she was gone and the Hatch would have spawned.
Whispers completely ruined this strategy. Luckily I kept my distance and I managed to leave the area. I was able to dodge her this way a couple to times during the match.
She saw me twice but I succeeded in loosing her.
All this effort was pointless as she always interrupted me at the Gens; even Left Behind wasn't good/fast enough. Basically, her Whispers, which is ONE perk, countered my FOUR Stealth Perks. How is this fair ? That was my best shot.
After 25 minutes of doing this, I died. The Stealth player should be able to win on his/her own, regardless of what their teammates are doing. As long as Whispers is a thing (as well as other detection Perks/Abilities/Addons that have no SOLID counter) this will not be possible. As I have already mentioned, if Calm Spirit were buffed, so as to counteract such game mechanics (no matter how "situational" they may seem to the Killer mains; today I had to deal with 8 Whispers users), it would fix some Stealth issues.
(Sorry for the bad quality, I'm playing on low 🤣)
By the way...
"Based on your opinions I'm assuming this experience is at least rank 10 or lower."
Before this patch I used to be Rank 1. Since the new patch I have had the chance to play for a few hours in the last two days and I am Rank 8 at the moment.
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"Those who say Whispers is not that great... ARE WRONG! "
This isn't what anyone in this thread is saying whatsoever. What we are saying is that is does not ruin stealth play as a survivor and that there are multiple counters. You need to play more killer and actually use this perk some. You will understand how completely wrong you are here. If whispers causes you this much trouble and you really think it isn't counterable, you need to get better at survivor.
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My stealth build is sc,UE, premonition and poised. I don’t get caught much with it unless I’m desperate to complete the gen.
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"I stayed alive in a 1v1 for 25 minutes." "Stealth is trash." NANI?!
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