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Why do people disconnect against certain killers or certain killer perks/builds?
Thus week I've been playing my usual killer matches. KIlled some people, watched others escape, moonwalked a bit as Myers,… Everything normal it would seem.
Except for a few instances in which I faced teams of survivors that DCd almost immediatly after seeing which killer was I using. The first case was when I decided to play Skull Merchant, which currently should be dead easy for survivors to face as she got butchered and transformed into this killer that has an useless power.
The next noticeable case was when I was using Twins. I mean, knowing SM's history I can get to understand that some may DC but Twins? They are buggy as hell, inconsistent and trust me, using Vic is not that easy considering that the lil fella can be kicked as soon as you mess up.
One of these cases that struck my attention was a 3-people DC in Midwich when I was using Scratch Mirror Myers, leaving one guy and 3 bots for me to scare. And I wasn't even going for the kills here.
The next instances when this happened was when I decided to play first Unknown and then Vecna against groups with 4 objects using Franklin's and Weave Attunement.
Funnily enough, when I decided to play the better killers (blight, nurse, Albert) and despite knowing the many complaints the community has regarding them, noone disconnected in those matches. (All of them with 2 slowdown perks, except nurse, which had 1 slowdown and 3 aura reading perks).
What is this? Does this mean that survivors have gotten used to playing against some things and are not willing to think out of that box? They believe that certain things are "unfun"? Is it just a mere coincidence that this happened these amount of times?
Comments
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I have to word this carefully to not violate the rules…. Twins is an incredibly obnoxious and unfun killer. Their most efficient way to play is to slug, camp the slug and slug some more and honestly while I cannot obviously advocate people immediately leaving, I am not going to say I don't understand it. Personally I absolutely despise Twins and I would rather have the option to wait in queue for 10 minutes to avoid them, I despise them that much.
SM is just unfun to play against because the fundamental design is irritating, nerfing just reduces her pick rate but doesn't fix the underlying problems.
SM Myers is just tedious, having done this countless times in my 5.5k hours it find it mind numbing beyond belief now. I had the same feeling about Insidious basement camping Bubba before anti camp ruined that - after the millionth time it is just plain tedious and the matches are long and drawn out wars of attrition.
Franklin's is an incredibly obnoxious perk for survivors, I try to be a good sport even when losing but when a killer had Franklin's I have to admit I cant bring myself to be nice post match and give my usual "gg". I rarely bring items anyway as I am an item Goblin but it does honestly make me think less of a killer when they bring this perk.
I don't mind versing Blight or Nurse (though I think both are too strong for regular public casual matches) as the gameplay isn't obnoxious and if they are Godlike, at least the misery will be over fast if they fully stack gen perks etc, whereas a SM Myers game on Midwich will be an excruciatingly long and drawn out ordeal of tedium.
I AM NOT ADVOCATING LEAVING, I am just telling you how I view it as a veteran of solo queue and while I have played thousands of hours of killer too, I played far more survivor and prefer this role and I think I have good insight on how many survivor mains think.
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on13 -
Players do it because the d/c penalty is more appealing than spending 10+ minutes playing against whatever it is they're about to face. The reasons are going to vary from player to player. It's not necessarily tied to killer strength. I've found that it's usually tied to how interactive the gameplay is and how cheap the killer feels to play against.
Players would generally rather play against a Wesker than a Scratched Mirror Myers because Wesker is actually a back and forth. Scratched Mirror games are always the same. He waits around a corner and you stand there knowing he's around the corner. Two teammates do fine and one teammate throws the game like they've never seen a Scratched Mirror Myers before. It's usually really frustrating. Not strong. Frustrating.
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This is why.
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Because people have not too much time after work / school. They probably want to use this limited time for fun matches.
The real question is why BHVR is not fixing the issues which makes people dc / suicide. Skull Merchant is good example here. She was dc monster and they finally fixed her. Now people are rarely dc'ing against her.
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They believe that certain things are "unfun"?It's basically this, with a fair mix of coincidence / random chance. Lots of people might be playing on limited time, only have 30 minutes to an hour to play some DbD. It's a video game, people are playing for enjoyment, if the situation becomes not fun it isn't a surprise they leave and either eat the DC penalty or go play something else.
It's not right, I think people have a commitment to play out the game they signed into, but its human nature. It happens in all video games, but in DbD so much of the game is based around the killer in the match that it has an outsized impact.
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Because a lot of the things on both sides are unfun and some things are fun but all of this is subjective and can't be presented in factual evidence.
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First image is Twins which is like their only playstyle they have. Second image is what i would guess is solo queue because good survivors are not going to down like that without Unbreakable, WGLF or Made For This.
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Scratched Mirror is one of the most boring things you can go against in this game. It's less pleasant than going against a comp blight who is trying to break the world record for fastest 4K. Every game plays out exactly the same and it's not a good time. It's not "scary" or fun to play against.
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Well, I LOVE a scratched mirror Myers. So I guess there's your answer. Different people love and hate different things about the game.
I don't think most players load into a game with the intention to DC or go next. I suspect that usually comes after a string of bad experiences and they're simply fed up with the game at that point and should probably have stopped after the last game they played.
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All of these killers break the core gameplay loop in some way. SM may be nerfed but the disdain runs super deep. the antiloop had less counter than other killers. Twins is objectively an unfun slug simulator and viktor moving at 150 m/s almost garuntees you go down if they dont missplay. Scratched myers doesnt chase you, he pops out periodically to get easy hits/ downs super map and gens spawn dependent (personally myers is fun on both sides)
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People just don't like losing and that goes for both sides.
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The only time I will actively DC is vs. Doctor, and that's purely an accessibility issue for me. I have Autistic Sensory Overload Disorder and he triggers it, especially if he's running the Iridescent King addon. I personally think this is the ONLY reason to DC, if you are actively triggered in some way, like me, or like someone who has etemophobia vs. The Plague or Coulrophobia vs. The Clown. But just cause you don't "like" a killer? No, play the match and learn how to counter them.
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Twins have a slugging reputation. That would be my assumption.
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So far I get most DC, when I play Legion. Main reasons for it are dramaturgy and finesse. They don't really work against Legion and survivors don't like it.
DC just because your perk is not going to work is quite pathetic tho.
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Legion is a very tedious killer to go against too though, maybe not just survivor perks but it could be that a lot of survivors find constant mending very boring to deal with. Legion is not a strong killer, they get cheap free hits and then have nothing much else after that but it can still be very tedious to deal with.
Again not justifying leaving but just giving a reason why you would see people give up VS Legion - they have been unpopular since release.
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If gutting a killer is "fixing" I dread to think what you would do to other killers that are mildly annoying.
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Funny to every try lable what devs have done as a "fix". That was tactical nuke…
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BHVR has told Survivors that if they DC BVHR will make the nasty Killer go away.
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If too many people are giving up then yeah nuking is good option. This game has 2 sides after all.
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Because they're weak-willed cowards who don't want to actually try, and then complain about losing without a shred of irony. I wish they'd just leave the game.
I don't like Scratched Mirror Myers or Nurse or Trickster, but I'm gonna play against them, because I owe my team that. If I play badly against them and die easily, they can chew my head off for all I care. But I at least tried, and that's rare and appreciated in this game.
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It's becomes obvious that survivors don't want any sort of variety. They want repetitive games against killers that all play exactly the same so they don't have to develop any sort of alternative strategies or outside-the-box thinking other than "loop the killer during chase." Any time a killer has any sort of mechanic that requires them to do anything other than looping or gens, they complain it is "unfun" or "boring" or "tedious" or some variation of that until it is nerfed into oblivion and the killer is basically unusable in any way other than a noob stomper.
Sorry, but having 30-something variations of Blight or Billy or whatever dash-focused killer you think is fair is NOT a good or healthy thing for the game.
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Entitlement is the reason.
BHVR keeps rewarding this kind of behavior. See Skull Merchant nerfs.
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Its not a good option. Its people refusing to learn the counterplay of skull merchant and whining about it. I guess by that logic I should never learn how to counter certain survivor perks and go AFK as killer until it gets nerfed without giving constructive feedback on why something is bad and not a petty reason of "its unfun".
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There was not counterplay for Skull Merchant. And playing against her was insanely painful. That's why people wanted go next match as fast as possible.
You can like killer as much as you want but if most of players hated her, BHVR simply can't ignore that fact. They had to take action and they did. Now we all have to wait for her rework.
And you can do whatever you want against certain survivor perks. You are only one person in data. If most of killers do same thing, then yeah BHVR will do something about this as well. That's how it is works.
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Because i'd rather take a DC penalty over a sweat filled 20-30 minute standoff with a Singularity.
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So I don't like thing so I quit and refuse to participate despite signing up
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Yes, and the comment your sardonic reply is aimed at is correctly explaining to the OP (who asked why specifically) why these killers are often disliked.
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I explained why people likely give up, not justifying it. So I will let you argue that one out with yourself chief, as this wasn't the point I made and in fact I made it clear I did not encourage it. I just know why survivors hate the things OP seems to be confused as to why people don't want to verse it.
You can get mad about it all you want but no matter what you cant force people to play matches they don't want to and BHVR are likely well aware of this fact too.
The answer is in part to at least eliminate a lot of what causes people to instantly want out of matches to reduce it as much as possible. However people give up for any ridiculous ######### reason, so you can never fully eliminate it but only reduce the likelihood
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No it wouldn't. Nuking a Killer into unusability because they're annoying is as unfair as nuking say… Flashbang into unusability because it's annoying. I don't think you would enjoy it if fun silly perks like Head On, Flashbang, Blast Mine, Mirrored Illlusion, Bardic Inspiration, or Diversion were nerfed just because Killers found those too annoying would you? I sure would hate that, I love trying to use Mirrored Illusion to mess with people when I play Survivor! I like whipping out my lute playing Bardic Inspiration! I like trying to use Pebble for fun! And I like trying to make Flashbang and Head On plays, those are fun. Those things are fun.
Similarly, a Killer you find annoying someone else may find fun. Lots of people think running around as Legion is fun. Lots of people think being able to 99 someone and drop them from an ambush as Myers or Ghostface is fun. Some people think Silent Chainsaw Billy is fun, and some people think that Pinhead is really fun to launch chains and juggle the box with. And many, many people find Huntress orbitals fun. All of these are mechanics someone somewhere - even a lot of people here, find annoying while others find them fun.
Why would we want to nerf the things that make the game fun for people just because you might find them annoying? Is that really fair? And if you do think it's fair to nuke Killers Survivors fund unfun… well, what annoying things on Survivor side are you willing to sacrifice in the name of Killers' fun?
No, the answer to the give up epidemic isn't, it simply is not to nuke annoyances into the ground. That removes diversity. That removes interactivity. And I'm gonna respond to it the same way as I would someone asking for a Blast Mine nerf for being annoying - by laughing you out of the room, because it's a laughable position to say we need to fix an issue that affects everyone by nuking things only some people find annoying to the detriment of the game.
The solution to the give up epidemic is something we all know has to be done but nobody wants to admit. The solution is simply to remove the 4% unless you have a perk for it or it's endgame collapse. That would fix the issue way more than nuking something someone else finds fun just because people are too petty to admit they want to ruin the game for everyone else just because they find a thing mildly annoying. They did that to Skull Merchant, yet people STILL DC against her for no reason. Utterly none, just because she's Skull Merchant. How on earth is that even fair?
The Skurchent gutting solution cannot and should not ever, ever be the solution to any of this. Ever. To say otherwise betrays an opinion that you want the game to become more bland, more boring, and less interesting for everyone. It fixes nothing, and creates less fun for everyone.2 -
Sorry but I don't think removing the 4% from the first struggle phase is not going to fix this, it prolongs the process of people giving up but it doesn't prevent it. The same as matchmaking penalties for DCing don't work, they just encourage people to give up in ways to avoid the penalty.
Of course I agree fun is subjective but when certain killers or builds result in the vast majority of players giving up, there is objectively a problem there that needs to be addressed.
While maybe not the most elegant solution, I do think nerfing them into the ground to reduce their pick rate is still an effective way to reduce the issue.
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Then you also agree nerfing perks into the ground that annoy Killers like Head On, Blast Mine, Flashbang (which is still bugged) and even the harmless Mirrored Illusion (it could annoy someone somewhere!) is the proper response should many Killers complain about those, right? If you disagree that would make you a hypocrite, because surely Killer fun and lack of annoyance is just as valid as Survivor annoyance, right?
I mean, to say otherwise would be a Survivor-sided bias. Just as if I had said that we need to nerf all gen perks Survivors have because gens go too fast would be a Killer-sided bias.
Nuking things we don't like isn't an answer nor should it be a longterm solution, because if we normalize that I don't think you will like what some Killers will do the second Blast Mine is seen if that becomes too annoying. Asking for nerfs because "annoying" isn't a solution and I think you know it.
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Sorry but if you are leaving a match over Head On or Blast Mine etc, that is a you problem and likely skill issue and these are not comparable. I do think flashbangs need to be changed though, as you should not be blinded while facing a wall causing you to drop a survivor and bugs are a different topic altogether.
A miserable killer design holds 4 people in a match they have to endure and they are all subject to the mechanics of that killer.
Nuking things is not the ideal answer, the ideal answer is to outright delete broken things or completely rework them from the ground up. The first is not possible as people paid for these characters so you cant just delete them outright, the second takes a lot of work and often for characters such as Twins or SM, who I suspect don't exactly do a roaring trade as far as skins go. So for BHVR nerfing the problem into the ground is a kind of win/win even if not the ideal solution.
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Please name one survivor perk made 70-80% killers dc or give up. That was what SM did to survivors. If you are saying to me that leaving her alone was good i have no words for you but disagree. SM deserved what happened to her. I'd take rework but i guess devs did not have enough time. So they came with temporary solution.
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People work and have commitments, when they have time to play they don't want to spend it in miserable pointless matches. I'm not one to normally DC (I will try my best to get through a match) but if it's a killer with a full slugging build or Blight/Nurse with a full gen slowdown build i just wanna take my L and quickly move on.
I find that out of 5 matches I play normally 1-2 are actually worth while where everyone tried to do the objective and actually played otherwise it's normally killer slugging or tunneling really early or another survivor went next on hook.
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From my experience people disconnect from skull merchant because they are used to them tunneling off hooks n stuff, not much so about them being hard to play against. Twins people disconnect because tho they are rare, most often when u do get a twins the round will end with all 4 people slugged and bleeding out (ive experienced it about 4 or 5 times now). As for franklin weave combo it was the most annoying meta a survivor could play against when it first came out to the point where people stopped bringing items altogether, as sure the counter is just leave ur item in the corner but franklins often ended up leaving the items everywhere, people still find it quite annoying to this day. the reason nurse and blight doesnt get much for disconnects is because most people still thing of them as a killer that isnt entirely annoying to go against and they might even win just like any other average killer. My friend mains trickster and apparently gets allot of auto dcs as well because people don't enjoy getting mowed down out in the open feeling like there was nothing they could do etc, but everytime ive played him its a real struggle to stop the gens from flying. As for scratched mirror myers the people who play him that way think most people enjoy the jump scares but in reality allot of players find it very annoying to have a killer constantly come at you around every corner nipping you and leaving etc it becomes very tedious and sometimes leads to matches lasting like 45 minutes or more. (In short its extremely annoying to some players)
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- No one wants to play against weave franklins. Even with the weave nerf (which was then buffed again) it’s not worth it because it’s still obnoxious to try to constantly counter and still get your objective done. Giving the killer constant aura reading all over the map is not something most people care to play against.
- People still don’t wanna play against skull merchant because, in my experience, although she got nerfed, the majority of SM players I go against play super toxic. I don’t know if it’s them taking the anger for her nerfs out on the survivors, but they’re all super toxic. They tunnel of hook at 5 gens, camp, slug and constantly BM (hitting over and over on hook, humping on the ground) and no one wants to deal with that.
As for Twins, everyone knows that the Twins typically playstyle is effectively using Victor to slug everyone out as fast as possible. Get the 4 man slug at 4-5 gens to win and no one wants to play against that either. Especially with the increase in slugging playstyles and how unfun that is to go against. I think a lot of people associate twins with slugging so they go next.
I’m not suggesting that it doesn’t suck to have people DC when you play certain killers, I’m just saying that based on the playstyles we’ve seen with these killer and perk combos in the last year or so, lots of people have decided they’d rather take the DC penalty and find another match than deal with the frustration.
0 - No one wants to play against weave franklins. Even with the weave nerf (which was then buffed again) it’s not worth it because it’s still obnoxious to try to constantly counter and still get your objective done. Giving the killer constant aura reading all over the map is not something most people care to play against.
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Then I can only hope something you enjoy is gutted for the sake of making the game more fun for killers.
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Frankly if majority of matches you play you don't enjoy, then play something else. Forcing yourself to play a game you clearly aren't enjoying is not a good use of time.
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Killers already have fun game. DbD is never been that much killer-sided. I don't know what else BHVR can do.
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As I said before and many times, some killers are just a nono for people and that is why tiers sometimes do not matter. Yesterday all my teamates dc before even 10 seconds of the match because it was a pig that had video tape and after a quick match where I had her kill me and all the bits, she had devour, face darkness, undying and plaything along with rule set 2 and pink mori
At that point annoyed as I was, I also myself was like well damn thank goodness it ended so fast and ruin that build cause that would have been a long match. Tbh I despise pig cause she is a slow down gen stimulator and the fact most of them tunnel people with traps on their head, yeah give me a nurse please instead. Cause vs a nurse I only have to think about dodging blinks and breaking los. With pig I am at risk of being dead or teamates being dead via doing my objective and that's stupid.
Some killer regardless of tier for some people myself included are just annoying and boring to face and ngl feels cheap to vs against. Heck me and my 3 man swf had a rando lara who kamikaze on hook vs ghosty yesteday cause she apparently got full stalked and went down before even getting a chance to be able to run. The funny thing is me and my swf was able to loop that guy for all gens and still won with a 3s cause he was not even good lol. In short I rather a blight or nurse over most other killers.
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MFT meta was the worst meta the game has ever had for Killers. I saw several M1s give up chasing entirely when I ran it. CoH was a problem, I saw some Killers disconnect or not play certain Killers at all. I saw many Killers give up when it was possible for DS to work in endgame, simply opening the gates and standing in a corner. It does happen. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it does not happen. It's just in Killer terms, the "give up" Survivors ike to do instead looks like not playing Killers affected by it (reducing Killer diversity) and standing in a corner after opening gates, not disconnects, because disconnects punish the Killer and end the game prematurely when a Killer does it in a way that it doesn't for Survivor.
No Killer "deserves" to be destroyed for the sake of people being angry at them. SM needed a rework. Her gutting was not it. Putting Killers or perks or anything else in D tier until the Devs can get to them and fix them shouldn't be a solution and shouldn't be encouraged, look at how long it took poor Freddy and Myers to be fixed. Do you really think it's fair to punish a whole group who likes a certain Killer just because SOME people played them in the worst possible way? Do you think Dredge needs a nerf because some Dredges use his locker mechanic to tunnel or that Ghostface would need nerfing just because some Ghostfaces teabag every down?
I do not think it's healthy for the game to encourage totally gutting anything. Killers perks items or otherwise, just because the other side is frustrated. If a thing is a problem it's a problem and needs toning down. Not gutting into oblivion. I really shudder to think what you believe is fair balance if you believe hardcore nerfs to the point of destroying stuff are what the game needs rather than overall buffs for things that underperform, Survivors included. In fact, isn't hardcore gutting stuff like looping the reason maps suck now?
The solution cannot and should not be, "my side gets all the fun toys but your side gets to play with broken discarded trash that was once a fun toy". That's not balanced, equal, fair, or healthy for this game, and all of your posts so far here seem to insinuate you think Survivors are the only ones who ever deserve fun toys.
Post edited by LockerLurk on1 -
tl;dr: You completely misread me. I said that we SHOULD NOT nerf to oblivion based on annoyance factor and doing so is as dumb as nerfing Blast Mine for being annoying. You somehow twisted that into me complaining about Blast Mine due to a lack of skill, and now have totally embarrassed yourself. You could have prevented that by reading.
See, this is the issue and why nothing ever gets solved. People assume when someone brings up a point about things, that means they're somehow bad at the game and have a skill issue when there could be legitimate reasons for those complaints, or that they may have only been brought up to make a point and aren't actual complaints. My point was literally a comparison, I have zero issue with any of these blinding perks and it's really telling that you would rather argue and insult my perceived game skill than meet me halfway and see my actual point here.
If you would have actually sat and read my other posts here, you would see that I wasn't complaining about any of these perks at all, I was simply using them to draw comparisons by saying that nerfing perks like these for annoyance reasons is as silly as nerfing anything else (like Killers) for annoyance reasons, yet somehow that was either not made clear or you willfully must have ignored that, I guess.
My actual point is, to reiterate, that it's very silly to nerf things that are merely annoying. Let me clarify: we are all very much aware here that mechanics that exist almost solely to cause much frustration simply shouldn't be in the game on either side nor should anything be nerfed into uselessness just for being "too annoying". It isn't okay that 3genning existed. It's not okay some people abuse the sound glitch with Flashbang to come out of nowhere when the Killer can't do anything, and no, facing a wall doesn't help against Flashbang. It's not okay that people abuse things like that locker flashlight glitch, and it's not okay some people put four aura read on Nurse and tunnel with it, and it's really not okay that anyone BMs anyone.But it's also not okay to decimate stuff people find fun, like Head On or Laser Tagging as Skull Merchant, just because someone somewhere is annoyed by it. Surely you see how silly it is to completely destroy something rather than a sensible nerf. MFT was fun but too strong with bad combos, so nerf. In contrast, Skull Merchant who did need a fix was nerfed properly, then decimated for very little reason despite only needing another tiny little nerf to fix pain points. Why? Because enough people whined about it.
Do not think that BHVR wouldn't do the same to your perks, tools, and resources just because enough Killers complained, look what happened to maps for example.Nerfing ANYTHING to uselessness because people complain, and this infighting, don't help. Instead of the one sided yelling at Killers or Survivors or whoever for "not being skilled enough LMAO", try, I beg of you, to see WHY someone might bring up other things that are annoying instead of reaching for the "my side good, other side bad" hammer again.
Stop blaming the other side for issues that affect everyone's enjoyability of this game. Please, my friend. It's truly not that hard.
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I agree with your sentiment and I have played dbd less and if my matches aren't fun then I do play something else. I still think people can feedback their frustrations though.
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