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Wake Up buff encourages the lone wolf playstyle
The Wake Up buff encourages the lone wolf playstyle, where a survivor purposely hides, and watches their teammates die, so they can try to escape via the exit gates after the hatch is closed.
This is such an unhealthy change for the game. Survivors should be encouraged to work together, but this perk is definitely an anti-teamwork perk.
(Edit, adding updated suggestion) Sole Survivor and Wake Up’s gate opening speeds should no longer stack with each other.
Comments
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This may be controversial but I welcome this. Alternate playstyles should be welcomed and encouraged. This can make perks like self preservation, fast track, sole survivor etc more usable and offer the community more.
People are too fixated on playing the "meta" and as efficiently as they can and they expect their teammates to do the same.
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no it doesn't
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When survivors decide, before a game has even started, that their strategy is to purposely allow their team to fail so they can use their “last survivor” perks, that should be considered unsportsmanlike.
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Honestly buffing Wake up to 50% is probably not the right way to go about it. I felt like it would've been better if it was kept at 25% but every survivor on your team could see exist gates if somebody had it equipped.
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I'm not against this buff, but as soon as I saw this change, I instantly said "Well, I guess every single Sable will now equip Wake Up, and just throw whole team on every opportunity".
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Not really? It's a lot more flexible than Sole Survivor.
I'd rather have a teammate run Wake Up and be able to get the gates open quick if we make it to endgame, and fall back on it if they're the last one standing than just running Sole Survivor and only being able to use it in the latter situation.
(Although there isn't really much difference between Wake Up and Sole Survivor at this point now anyway, they should probably up the numbers a little bit on the latter perk.)
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The lone wolf survivors are purposely sandbagging their team, so they can be the last survivor in the game. This isn't "the survivor will play normally, and will fall back on Wake Up if the survivors are losing". This is "the survivor decided, before the game started, that their strategy is literally to sandbag their team".
A much healthier change for Wake Up, would be "For every survivor that is still alive, increase the gate opening speed by 15%".
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That'd potentially screw over plays where someone's already dead and you've reached endgame.
Getting open the gates quickly and leaving so the other person can leave through the hatch is a great advantage in a 2v1 endgame scenario.
You're always going to get people who hide for endgame, but Wake Up isn't specifically an "anti-teamwork" perk like Left Behind or Sole Survivor could be classified as. There's no reason it should suffer as collateral because a handful of players might use it selfishly.
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It should suffer specifically because it synergies so well with the other lone wolf perks like Sole Survivor.
If this new Wake Up is stacked with Sole Survivor, then it would be near impossible for most killers to defend the exit gates (without specific perks), which means that if a survivor wants to sandbag their team to be the last survivor standing, they would get an almost guaranteed escape.
And when the highest win rate strategy for survivors involves sandbagging their team, that isn’t good.
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Its completely fine. its a perk that works one time per match. IT should do what it sets out to do well. How would it stand out from the other perks the like sole survivor, leader, or resilience that also provide a bonus as well as other effects.
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Playing to kill your teammates to get value out of your build isn't being a "lone wolf", it's being a piece of $h17. Actual lone wolf players will still do all they can to help, but not with the help of others.
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Even then, there's no guarantee that the person running Sole Survivor + Wake Up even gets to end game to utilize this perk combo.
I'm not the biggest fan of selfish perks in general. However, I like to use Resilience and Wake Up on my Quentin build. I wouldn't consider myself a selfish player as I have 99%ed both doors when I played solo-queue and with friends.
Just because there are people who run selfish builds like Sole Survivor and Wake Up doesn't mean that all people who would run Wake Up would do the same.
Additionally to another commenter, it would be nice to have it illustrate to others where the exit gates are but it would defeat the purpose of the perk as the user is the one who benefits from the perk, not others as it would directly conflict with Leader. I don't mind the buff, but obviously can't test it with my build but if exit gates are an issue, you can run end game perks to counter them.
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Wake Up! shows your Aura to other Survivors as you are opening the Exit Gates… this perk is designed to help your team by giving them information as to your location and open the Exit Gates faster so you can take a Protection Hit if needed. The amount of times this perk has single-handedly carried a game for my team cannot be counted, it is amazing in a team setting.
Technically it could be used as a "selfish perk" but Sole Survivors already does the exact same gimmick but better anyways.
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The have the perk scale better with the number of alive survivors.
It could even be opening gates 15%/50%/55%/60% faster, if 1/2/3/4 survivors are still alive, so that the perk change is a buff for every scenario except the survivor being the only one left alive.
Alternately, Wake Up’s exit gate speed shouldn’t stack with Sole Survivor.
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Not necessarily a bad idea… but seems a bit SWF-y… though one could argue that Sole Survivor is the solo variant of this perk.
I will admit, the first thought I had when I saw this change was "stack with Sole Survivor for a 10s gate open? That seems kinda rough… and gives more reason to slug for the 4k…". A change I would have preferred would be to see exit gate auras at all times right from the start of the trial, so you can make decisions easier about which gens to focus without having to scout the edges of the map.
Alternatively maybe it could stay 25%, but it's effect is doubled if you're injured?
Alternatively Alternatively maybe you see the killers aura for 5s when you first touch the gate handle?
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I’ve had more time to think about this, and I’d rather Wake Up just not stack with Sole Survivor.
It’s the simplest way to fix the perk, so it could still be used by team oriented survivors. But it would be nerfed specifically in the Wake Up + Sole Survivor combination that is pretty much exclusively used by lone wolf survivors that want to sand bag their team.
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it is not an issue. if anything, the buff makes so you don't need to run sole survivor and can be more useful teammate in end game to open gates faster. sole survivor would be an insurgence policy perk to escape if ur team sucks. as long it doesn't count towards killer losing and survivor winning, it's whatever. you technically lose mmr as killer but apparently it scales downwards for survivor losing less. the more people die.
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Seems fair enough, although DBD doesn't tend to benefit from exclusions, they make things confusing and unclear. Open handed for example is a pain because it only refers to aura reads centered on survivors, not Aura reads themselves. We already stack Wake up and Sole Survivor if we wanna rush the gate (It's 12.5 s) and sandbag our team, so I don't think it'll be an uptick.
The main thing that bugs me with Wake Up being 50% is it looks like it totally outclasses Sole Survivor.
I look at Sole Survivor, and that perk MUST have everyone dead to activate the gen and gate speed, and lets be real, the gen speed isn't useful at this point really unless you want the achievement… so gate is where we expect to get value… and Wake Up just works for exactly the same speed that can still work with multiple survivors alive… So I mostly care not for the gen speed, Wake up now outclasses SS on gate speed, so the only thing left is the aura block…
However even that isn't great… sure I get the aura read block, and at least that is in effect in the main trial…. but there are not many relevant aura reads after a survivor dies at the end game where this perk matters most. Until the 3rd player is actually dead, you don't get the full 72m aura block, so this means for aura reading perks: -
- BBQ and Chilli is only blocked at 48m when the 3rd is hooked, giving 8m of value, so that's mostly pointless.
- Alien Instinct, Friends 'Til the End are also 48m at their trigger point.
- Nowhere to Hide is blocked, but who is gonna be near gens anyway?
- Darkness Revealed it might help with, but isn't a common perk.
- Human Greed, Hex: Undying, Weave Attunement its OK, but even 72m isn't infallible.
So my issue is, I look at SS and Wake up, and I can't really think of a reason I'd ever take SS, since Wake up is actually useful for the team, while SS is only good when I'm last alive… I kinda liked your idea of dropping the bonus if you're the last alive…. cause then at least the 2 perks have clearly different roles. It also fits Quentin, since he is quite heroic and is the main thinker behind trying to find ways to stay awake/wake others up from Freddy's dream… it's more thinking about others (particularly Nancy) rather than himself.
The flaw is basically that SS is so conditional…. unless we give Sole Survivor something barmy, like gain a health state when the 3rd survivor dies (which is a buff I think should be given to Left Behind tbh), I struggle to see where it can be useful when it's most prized effect is mimicked by Wake up with less conditions…
EDIT: As I've thought about it, buffing the range per stack to 36m might actually make me want to use it. Second survivor dies and I had a 36m block at that point, and then get a 72m aura read block, which means I am likely not the one who will be found of the two remaining… Then when the 3rd dies I have a huge 108m aura block range, which seems much more reliable against most aura reading perks in the 1vs1.
I might consider using SS for that.
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This has always been happening even before this go live. Yall gut distortion what do you think will happen? First its qq about last 2 survivor constant hiding and now its qq about last person escaping jesus this out of hand.
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Pretty much the only time I ever see Sole Survivor is when someone is stacking it with Wake Up, and they are usually the last survivor left in the game because they spent the entire game hiding.
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It's so rare that you see survivors run that unless they're predominantly solo-queue and waiting for their team to die.
Even though I'm not a huge fan of this synergy and the selfishness it provides, we shouldn't restrict the synergy. Chances are the person running this build won't even get to use it end game unless they literally evade the killer at all times. The Wake Up buff allows a regular survivor to open up the gate for 10 seconds, I believe Sole Survivor + Wake Up is about 8 seconds making it such a small increase. We shouldn't restrict these two perks as they're literally both end game anyways and should be rewarding to the person running the whole game with 2 perks inactive.
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I agree, old Wake Up is 20 seconds and this buff will push people to use this NEW Wake Up over the more selfish perk Sole-Survivor. If someone wants to run Sole-Survivor and Wake Up, let it. It's such a niche combo that it doesn't make sense to restrict the synergy with both.
If anything, you could argue Sole-Survivor needs a buff or a complete rework if the issue is that it is a selfish perk.
Wake Up is not an inherently selfish perk by any stretch of the imagination. I remember one game going against Infinite Myers and I 99%ed both doors to allow all of my team to escape, I died in the process of doing this, and I look back at it fondly as I was literally the opposite of a selfish player as the OP suggested.
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Yes, my entire point is Wake Up shouldn’t stack with Sole Survivor, because people only combine those perks if they want to spend the entire game waiting for everyone else to die, and BHVR shouldn’t be buffing that play style.
If Wake Up no longer stacked with Sole Survivor, it literally wouldn’t affect team-oriented survivors at all, because they wouldn’t be stacking those perks.
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I suppose, but at the same time I don't see why they shouldn't work together. Even then, I would just rework Sole Survivor to compensate for teammates dying and getting stronger as the match progresses. It could actually help the survivor team when a killer decides to kill off a teammate early on in the match.
The selfishness comes from Sole Survivor, not Wake Up and I think Behavior needs to change the perk outright rather than making it so there's no synergy between two dead perks until end game.
Edit: Sole Survivor doesn't even describe Laurie's lore anyways. If anything, what I just described would be what Laurie would do. She was never a selfish person in any of the movies and just rework the perk to get rid of the "selfish" playstyle and "ratting" — that has nothing to do with Wake Up. Laurie is the type to get things done and work towards helping people survive, not let my team die and then be the final girl. ☠️
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Mayne we wouldn't need wake up if killers would start pi king up in a 2v1.
If nothing i take or do matters, then may as well go in with nothing and just fall back on wake up Sole Survivor Resilience
II'll Just let thr survivor bleed out by dropping items then Wake Up out. It sucks but I'm left no choice.
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Exactly.
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They shouldn't work together because 99.99% of the time, when people combine these perks, their strategy is to hide the whole match, and watch their teammates die, which really should be considered sandbagging their own team.
And even though it would be better if sole survivor is reworked, they takes way more time and effort than just preventing them from stacking. Ideally, the stacking would be removed immediately, and the sole survivor perk reworked sometime in the future.
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Yeah it's definitely going to be a case of wait and see. But the numbers are pretty crazy, combining both Wake up and Sole Survivor togethers means you can open a gate in 10 seconds. That's pretty crazy and I'd say is a garaunteed escape, the only challenge is avoiding the killer long enough (and your other teammates). Even if said person using the combo ultimately fails that's basically one person refusing to engage with the game until they die, I don't think it's a particular mindset that should be encouraged with these perks. But we'll have to wait and see.
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Alright, I can agree with you that Sole Survivor definitely needs a rework — especially with how outdated it is.
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