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Chaos Shuffle brings the problems directly to light
It shows how dbd is balanced around perks. Exhausted perks are strong, anti-gen perks are strong, anti-tunnel perks are strong, camping is strong and slugging is strong all because of the perks. Chaos Shuffle proves that chases are shorter without exhaust perks, tunneling is a nightmare without the likes of OTR and DS, slugging is harder to deal with, gens are getting repaired fast without the gen blocking and regression.
It's abysmal, insufferable even to play chaos shuffle unless you got lucky and rolled perks that can deal with such problems.
Comments
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We see it more that people rely heavily on what they're used too. People who stacked slowdown will find gens speeding cause they don't know how to pressure any other way. Survivors without windows or exhaustion need to actually learn how to loop without them.
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Yes exactly and this is why I will dedicate myself to not depend on perks and learn the game the hard way.
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In other news, bad players are bad players.
Never learn the fundamentals, always rely on your Perks guys. B00st your MMR into spots you don't belong so you can cry about things you don't understand.
Obviously I am not serious about this. This is a joke. Please don't hit me with the obligatory "pls be respectful" mail.
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Well there's also the case where the perks you do get don't synergize with each other or even counteract.
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That's just wrong. Not everyone who has used gen defence is bad without it. Many who don't use it had used it for years, and found it to be extremely lacking in recent years. They then go on to use other builds, like chase and endgame builds, to see that it's an inherent issue that killer can't pressure no matter how they slice it. Now, they're either hoping to go against survivors who don't have a clue what they're doing, or have turned to slugging. This^ is kind of my story as well.
I did rely on Windows a lot as survivor, so the transition to never getting it wasn't nothing, but I managed. If anything, it's the same issues as usual that cause me to die. Not a lack of skill, game knowledge, or perks that work for my situation, but teammates who give up within the first minute. I can't do what I need to do to win us the match, be that doing gens while others are getting chased, or looping long enough for teammates to do gens, if they don't even begin to try to play. This is a team game, and I see far too often people pointing the finger at the killer, and legit NEVER questioning they or their own team's plays.
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I think it's the closest to a casual queue that DBD can ever hope to reach at this point. People who feel they need certain perks to play are probably unlikely to participate in it, or if they do they'll probably quickly go back to normal mode. This game is absolutely playable without certain perks. Heck it's even playable without perks at all (I've done this a number of times when in the mood).
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Like it or not the game is literally balanced around all but the top killers using 2 or more gen slowdown perks
Even the top tiers need at least one
Survivor isn't balanced around exhaustion, it just helps a lot
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See here's the thing, killers can pressure without stacking slowdown (or being an arse and heavily slugging). Should both sides go for the throat at the start then it (relatively speaking) can go either way provided theres not a major skill imbalance. Now not everyone who used gen defense is bad true just like a survivor using windows isn't inherently bad, but the ones who relied on it are realizing that they were dependent on them to win/pressure. You managed to get over relying on a perk (in this case windows) but many others wont and they act like lost sheep most times without what they usually run (meta or not).
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Chaos Shuffle has made me realise how much I dislike Killer aura reading perks and how wrong BHVR were to nerf Distortion into the ground. It's just playing the game autopilot mode when it comes to hunting for Survivors and it more or less shuts down the stealth aspect of the game completely. You don't know that they have aura reading until it's too late.
You could say the similar things about Windows of Opportunity being autopilot mode for Survivors, but they still need to be able to loop to make use of that perk. Any time I've gotten windows, it hasn't increased my chase times because I don't know how to loop.
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That is why you have to expect it, which means you are required to know the perks and possibilities.
Even with aura reading the killer still has to catch you, and if you have played accordingly, the aura reading will not always lead to a hit.
Now, does it ruin the stealth aspect? In some cases absolutely yes. I personally believe that the increase in aura reading perks for killers is due to the speed at which the game is played according to whatever data BHVR has, and there is a lot of data to consider. A LOT.
I have addressed this in a different thread already and I will probably make a new thread eventually when I get around to it, but I believe that discussing the balancing for public lobbies and soloQ in particular is, at least at this point in time, not leading anywhere due to the fact that the public match experience is not defined well enough. Trying to impose order on chaos will only lead to more chaos here.
EDIT: spelling mistake, keep the rest
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Oh yeah, I've definitely gotten into the habit of jumping into a locker if one is available anytime I face a high mobility / teleporting Killer. There's always a very good chance of BBQ being in play.
I just don't like the direction the game is going with regards to the overall nerfing of the stealth playstyle, as brighter maps with less places to hide and aura reading perks become more of the norm. Also, I think the content creators and streamers that have BHVR's ear don't understand that for more the casual Survivor players, hiding is usually the more optimal way to play. The time and knowledge required to learn how to loop well is astronomical, but pretty much everyone knows how to hide. Of course, excessive hiding is a problem for the game's health and that needs to be dealt with too (especially when the last 2 Survivors are hardcore stealthing around the map and refusing to touch gens).
That said, I think the problem with giving up is the number 1 thing to be addressed before BHVR can get a really good understanding of the true state of the game. I have a feeling that a lot of balancing is being made around SWFs who give up less and tend to be the more reliable / gen focused teammates. Of course, you have some cases when a duo will give up an otherwise winable game because their buddy died before they did. But overall, these Survivors are much less likely to be in games with players that let go on hook without the decency to give their team a bot, because you wouldn't SWF with a Survivor who played that way for long.
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I don't even jump in a locker except for very specific scenarios. Having played this game for a long time I have invested a lot of time really learning loop possibilities to an extend that the majority simply can't be bothered to do. That's why I am confident in using all of my available tools as a survivor, both stealth and open confrontation aka looping the killer.
As you say it's an astronomical endeavor to really learn this by yourself, let alone in the chaotic environment that soloQ is and therefore it's very obvious that stealth will be pretty much the only defense a casual player has. In many cases survivors even want to get immersed in it and do not want to consider the gameplay that emerges when stealth is not an option.
A skilled player will have the option between stealth and action, an unskilled player does not really have that option yet, if ever.
For me personally I find myself successfully applying stealth to turn a situation in my favor even when I don't use perks. Sometimes it does not work, either due to the killer finding me naturally or the killer utilizing an aura reading perk. In both cases I am not necessarily mad, it is what it is. But I only think about it like that because the other aspect of the game is just as nice to me.
To your last paragraph, it is interesting because I believe the total opposite is the case, namely that the giving up epidemic as many people call it can only really be addressed once BHVR understands (read: acts upon in a meaningful way) the true state of the game. I largely believe that we are talking about two different games. Two different Dead by Daylights. And that's precisely why a balancing is hard to find, if not impossible to bring about in such a way that everyone is satisfied.
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chaos shuffle only shows that killers with useless perks are much stronger than survs with useless perks. Especially killers with multiple built-in powers (vecna, dracula) or killers with high map pressure (nurse, blight). So if you add perks then still the killers are way too overpowered.
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There are indeed many different DBD experiences, which makes the game difficult to balance for everyone. But ultimately, I think BHVR should balance for fun above all else and I don't think a lot of Survivors are enjoying the game right now. So maybe you're right about finding out why players are giving up so often.
Especially with regards to the Survivor experience. If you're asking players to choose a side that's going to lose more often than not, there has to be a better reward for your time than less than 15K bloodpoints and maybe, if you're lucky, a decent shot at hatch (assuming the Killer doesn't tunnel / camp you out of the game or slug for the 4K to deny you even that opportunity).
Splitting the queues is a continuing issue, imho. I rarely lose a Killer game with my main in Chaos Shuffle right now because the system is struggling to find me suitable opponents (likewise, Survivor escapes are rare).
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You speak of balancing around fun, as if BHVR isn't trying to do that. I am sure BHVR would claim that they want the game to be fun. Obviously, but what does fun mean to you. What does fun mean to Otzdarva? What does fun mean to a competitive player like KnightLight? My christian grandmother would certainly not label something like simulating mass murder for entertainment as fun. to begin with.
People play Dead by Daylight for very different reasons. And out of this entire pool of available players that contains all sorts of reasons you pick 5 and put them in a lobby.
The fundamental experience of SoloQ is chaotic by nature because the ingredients of every match are. This is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact this is really great IF and only IF BHVR can actually capitalize on the data they have in a logically meaningful way.
What I would do is offer a system where every player can categorize themselves in whatever format BHVR can implement. Keep the MMR system as it is for now and compare it to the category the player chose. According to this results you can on one hand compare BHVR data with the perceived player experience and group together new pools.
The key as to why this can work is the supposedly endless data that BHVR has accumulated in conjunction with understanding the playerbase as a whole and on an individual level.
A horror fan who has bought DBD because of the Horror Icons and he loves playing Myers after work and he gets really into the role. That guy in a lobby of people who are on a 100 win streak while watching a "checkspot on longwall junglegym" tutorial… I don't know. Maybe he really loves that challenge and overcoming that obstacle is something that he likes, but he is just not good enough. Maybe he hates that tho and wants the afraid survivors who love hiding and acting like they would act as if they were in this situation.
If you can slowly over a long period of time collect this data you can slowly shift the pools so that there is a higher likelyhood for you to find a lobby with people who are looking for the same experience, but you don't have to completely split the pools apart. Don't do that.
Now some of you will probably ask the obligatory question "But what about all those guys who misuse this system to ruin the experience of others". Which is obviously a valid question to which I might say –– overhaul the Rating And Report system. Make it an easy one click solution to give props to other players you enjoyed playing with. This is even more data that can be used to determine which people are doing it.
I am talking about a system that needs to run parallel to the current SoloQ for a long time. Matches will continue as they are and the playerbase can slowly correct itself if the system is implemented skillfully and the playerbase accepts it.
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