Armageddon is here! (Find Your MMR Score)

Yeah, I'll wait for an in-game MMR reader. This stuff is a bit too out of the way for me.

Didn't I read somewhere being able to do this depends on the country you're in & local laws and such? So it might depend on the region in DBD terms.

I suspect Choy was correct that he got the devs attention with his request. But imo the recently released individual game data was a way to temporarily hold back the wave of Support requests while they work on a way to keep MMR out of privacy requests.

The information Choy received doesn't mean much until more people contribute their own info to help build a more accurate picture of the system. But contributed info can be unfortunately faked. So I feel like this is just going to muddy the water of the communities understanding of MMR more than anything.

I hope this is the call for BHVR to start making these stats public. Not necessarily MMR, since it is a not very intuitive statistic, but the escape rate, the kill rate on each killer, and the number of games you had should be public, since every other online game does that.

I also think that BHVR will be implementing a real rank system in the future. Some people want to compete and that's it.

Oh this is still big though.

I have played for several thousand hours and already know I'm likely not high MMR and wouldn't want to be because it sucks to face comp people all day every day. What do I care about a number?

Knowing this number shouldn't change anything, if people want to cheese it let them. Get them the hell outta my lobbies. Please.

this is really suspicious so i'd rather just skip

Disagree, think that they should even add to it by adding leagues etc

All I know is that someone that works at BHVR is going to have a very, very, very, very, very, very long day at work for the next few weeks in response to the wave.

What makes you guys really think that data dump isn't just someone finding your data and exporting it? Like you think a thing you can only request two times a year. "HAHAHA we are owning BHVR." I understand the tongue in cheek glee you have about this.

Except BHVR is a based workplace, nobody is going to have longer work days than normal if they don't want to. Furthermore they can easily just delay it and be like, ahem "Due to a large influx of requests, your data may be delayed."

Cherry-picking one’s own experience can be a common pitfall, and it's something worth considering,
so What makes you think everyone is "comp-brained"?

I just think it's weird to introduce a competitive matchmaking system and not tell people where they stand.

Please consider if the implementation of the matchmaking system was not to encourage competitive, but just to ensure a better match quality than the previous system. I honestly don't think BHVR made the changes specifically to make the game competitive.

Honestly it seems the moment you guys heard MMR you started chanting the Pokemon Anime song,
🎵 I wanna be the very best, Like no one ever was. dun-dun-dudum 🎵🎵

This seems to be the initial thought process both of Choy and many others I see who talk about this visible MMR.
Like cant you? Can you not see why a game could have a SBMM system, but not be intentionally a competitive game necessarily?
or was it confusing that BHVR hosted that tournament like one time?

I'm sure BHVR is happy we each enjoy the game in each of our ways, but to extrapolate from that and say, "this game is now competitive" and other stuff is a stretch in my opinion. Many games can have MMR and not be competitive.

I have alot of things to say about Choy (Most of them negative) and him using the layoffs as a reason for his actions feels less like a justification and more like an excuse to act the way he does while still being able to come off with his self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude.

Honestly, bhvr should just either show people's personal mmr or deal with Choy in whatever way they can, because the longer this goes on, the more of a circus this is turning into.

I don't quite think even that explains the softcap thing, if everyone really IS at the softcap that would mean the MMR is completely broken. I really don't believe most people are at softcap at all.

Honestly though, doesn't all this basically mean that the term "smurfing" means nothing? If MMR is intended to shift around, then it going down on purpose whether you force it that way or it happens naturally really doesn't mean much because it's just gonna go right back up based on that phi value, if we assume phi is a rate of decay for MMR (how fast you gain/lose it). This is also why winstreaks ultimately mean nothing - you don't measure skill based on wins and neither does the game. That is, skill literally does not matter in terms of MMR, only wins do. Which is actually, kinda expected based on what we know about MMR in other games and how it works, especially ones using this system. Pretty sure Overwatch also uses this system for example.

In fact if we assume phi is decay rate, mu is mean MMR, and sigma is the standard deviation of MMR, it explains everything about how MMR works. You have a baseline average of all your games (mu), then you have a range that all your games can match within (standard deviation) from that average. THEN you have a rate of decay that determines how much you gain or lose each match. That's kinda how it works in other games with an MMR system, too

The average explains why some people get tougher opponents than others even below softcap - it's an MMR mismatch. That is there functionally is no MMR. Most people do not have an average MMR at softcap, because if they did that would mean every other data point is so skewed it doesn't really matter and therefore they wouldn't really have any accurate MMR at all. So basically, if you have really inconsistent MMR you may be at softcap already where you can match with anyone and everyone; the formula breaks a little bit.

The standard deviation explains why especially at the softcap, you get such an array of players - because once you hit the softcap anyone can match and the game does not care if you're actually skilled, just that you win by the definition it uses (3-4k or an escape through the gate). If you have a really wide one, that means you again have very bad matchmaking accuracy or no real MMR. If you have a really narrow one, you have really accurate MMR which means you probably also have very frustrating matches - the game is not easy when your opponent is at your skill level or a little above/below it. Most people saying they get comp SWFs and the sweatiest Killers probably aren't softcap, they actually just have a very narrow MMR standard deviation and just don't see much variance per round.

The decay rate explains why, even when people really suck as a Killer and lose a lot, or when they winstreak and still get weak opponents, they STILL get opponents outside of their MMR - because they can gain or lose rapidly and it doesn't really matter. For one person, a single loss or two (versus their average) might be all it takes to get them weak babies, while for others even one win on a Killer they do not play much might give them really strong Survivors next round just because the game thinks they should be more skilled than they really are (because according to other data, they are). This would also explain why you get really bad Survivors matched with you as randoms - because they lost enough and you lost too, so the game thinks you need to be with THESE guys despite you probably not losing because you suck.

Even worse this means that we can now figure out an exact formula based on this for HOW, on an individual level, to tailor your game to never ever get anyone you can't handle… for the most part. You can now use these data to force your MMR to "even out" for the most part by manipulating how much you win or lose. That's exactly what you are doing when you 8hook, or when you winstreak, actually. It's not exactly a complicated statistical formula… at all, and anyone can massage these data for them to get what they want and now, they can calculate exactly how many rounds they'd need to get a higher/lower MMR to do that. Basically, knowing this makes what we would call "smurfing" easier now, so easy that "smurfing" now just means "I figured out how not to make the game suck for me every round", which is basically just… playing normally and accepting your losses as losses.

I'm not sure therefore that knowing all this is gonna be healthy for the game in the longrun, and I don't think it will change anything in the conversation whatsoever, except to make the term "smurfing" pointless. After all does anyone really care if you derank MMR to lose in what is intended to be more of a party-ish game when the game expects you to sometimes lose anyway? You'd still never lose enough MMR with this formula to stomp babies every round anyway, so what does "smurfing" even mean in this context?

I don't think it's that deep.

All he's really ultimately done is encourage people to clog up Support. Even he says the info he's got doesn't mean much or paint any sort of accurate picture.

That would also theoretically prove that at higher levels, YES, Killers would need to tunnel or slug, meaning those are necessary game tactics, are intentional, and aren't "cheesy" or "exploitative". That would blow apart basically every complaint that some players have about the game. It would also, if we see KIllers with higher MMR say, "I don't need to use too much gen hold" blow apart the idea that you need gen hold at all, or would also if we see a "weak" Killer with higher MMR on most people blow apart the argument that such and such Killer is weak - after all if most people have a decent MMR as Trapper but not Nurse, then is Trapper actually weak and is Nurse actually strong? What about when players throw and give that Killer a win?

That seems to make sense, but then again if we find out the softcap is even lower than we think it is and that's why everyone's "above softcap", that functionally just means there is no real softcap and everyone is in the same pool - which we already suspected. I actually think there is a range and the "softcap" is not max MMR like people claim but is more like… the very baseline. The max may be 2100 MMR, but the softcap might actually be like, 100 MMR. And because the criteria is just escapes and kills, that still means skill doesn't matter and the argument that doing certain things in the game is "skillless and cheesy" falls apart immediately and means nothing. After all if the game only cares about wins, then what does it matter if you aren't good at looping or a Killer power as long as you win? The game doesn't care.

Equating a win system that just tracks wins to "I have to be competitive in this game" is, to borrow your word, delusional. Of course DBD has a competitive element, but a game can most certainly be competitive in spirit without being an e-sport battle and thus be casual in mindset. It's clearer now with this formula being revealed that MMR in this game was never meant to be a competition at all, because gaining and losing it is so easy that functionally, wins and losses don't really matter - and you just cannot have a competitive game where wins and losses mean nothing in the long run, no matter how many people say "MMR means the game is not casual".

In fact that's probably why BHVR didn't want it revealed - because people would make statements just like the one you made here to justify being even more competitive in the tag game, and to justify "I can do whatever I want to win even if it makes the game feel bad. I can slug whoever I want or force the Killer to feel so bad the MMR mismatched us I make them give up in the corner, because that means I win, so it's valid. This ain't a non-competitive game after all, screw your fun I got mine I like winning." And that clearly is not the atmosphere BHVR wants, they WANTED this to be ignored and just try to help people have consistent games. But that failed, because some people correctly assumed how MMR works and just chose to use it as a way to justify winning at all costs anyway.

I really agree with Emeal on all this - it just really doesn't matter if MMR is shown or not, because MMR in this case isn't being used to measure anything competitively. It's just, quite literally, being used to ensure game consistency so very new players do not get matched with very experienced ones frequently. If you are getting matched with Killers that kick your ass or Survivors that don't know what they're doing, that's because the game thinks you win/lose enough to be there and therefore deserve these opponents/teammates.

In both cases, the baseless whining about "I only get sweaty/crappy games" means nothing and falls apart, as it should, because it was always a dumb argument because even with an MMR system this game is not that deep, doesn't measure actual skill, and isn't about your wins or losses or how you measure up to others.

Showing MMR has nothing to do with BHVR balancing the game, like you said they'll balance based on their own decisions and not the top players. So there's literally no reason not to show it, lower rated players can still express their opinions. But they shouldn't be arguing on why a certain killer is bad or good because they're just not good enough at the game.

Missed the chance to title it "AMMRageddon is here!".

It's better than the exclusionary behavior some people have right now, where they try to argue they are better at the game than other people because of the number of hours they've played.