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It's insane to me how Pyramid Head is going under complain radar
There are a lot of things going under radar in dbd community, but how I see ZERO complains about him, it just blows my mind. I know the reason, but anyway. And no, I'm not gonna talk about tunneling at all, it's chase.
PH is my second most hated killer to go against. Why? Well, there are two ways.
1. PH player is going for constant m2 snipes and then it's fine, you can predict and react on most of them and it's pretty fun. Most PH players are like this and I know it's the reason why PH is going under complain radar.
2. PH player is patient m2 holder. Holyyyy, just pray you won't go against player like me on PH. Wanna use window? Hit. Wanna use pallet? Hit. Wanna fake it? U r welcome, I'm patient > m1 hit. Predrop and prerun? Yeah, you kinda can, if you already have enough distance.
And guessing on what kind of PH player you go against now already makes me panic.
And nah, it's not "oh nerf PH he is op no counterplay" post, I'm doing fine against him and PH is completely fine basekit wise, it's more about how community complain about completely okish things, while things are much worse exist in complete oblivion. Like I don't understand how people complained about Xeno, while PHead is his x10 times stronger version and nobody even remember he exists.
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Yeah the only complaint I have is how terrible his addons are
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The community in general doesn’t complain about Pyramidhead because there’s nothing to complain about. His power is easy to dodge. He’s probably one of the most balanced killers in the whole roster. The only complaints you’ll see occasionally on the forum are about how awful and useless his add-ons are.
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He's one of my favourite killers to go against
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he is strong but I find him fun to play against. He has the best chase music in the game and dodging his attack is very satisfying. He is my second main so I have played him a lot I just wished his addons were better
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Pyramidhead is a fairly balanced killer, but he isn’t the only killer people seldom complain about.
People don’t really complain about..:
Demogorgon, Doctor, Trapper, Hag, Dredge, Unknown, and many more killers. Some of these killers have mechanics that are frustrating to deal with but none of them are too problematic. What people—and really, you mean survivors—complain about killers that are oppressive with convoluted counter play.
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In scott's video about people "going next" theres a guy who says "i'll keep going next as long as doctor exists" people DC against perkless trapper all the time. Its an epiddemic that has nothing to do with how powerful killers are. People complain and "go next" in every situation.
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theres a guy who says "i'll keep going next as long as doctor exists" people DC against perkless trapper all the time
Wow, some people really are playing this game out of sheer addiction.
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Honestly, I’m glad this is true for Artist and Hag
Barely anyone really has any complaints about them, even though they have some ammo (hold-W-potential power, camping ability).
Must be their rarity, I guess.
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People don’t DC against perkless Trapper all the time because 1.) Trapper has one of the lowest pick rates in the game and 2.) a killer playing with 0 perks is extremely rare. As for Doctor, I main him, have played over 40 games with him, and have had 0 DCs. Against the Doctor’s I’ve faced, I’ve seen 0 DCs. I do not believe people DC against him commonly. People are more likely, in my experience, to DC against Artist than Doctor.
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He is quite easy to play against unless he can flick…
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The only complaint about Pyramid Head is the ones who cage survivors and hover near the cage to proxy-camp it so they can immediately down the survivor due to the lack of basekit endurance. Bypassing hook perks is fine, it's an interesting part of the killer's design, but the lack of 10sec endurance off cage is very annoying when PH players take advantage of it.
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Like I don't understand how people complained about Xeno, while PHead is his x10 times stronger version and nobody even remember he exists.
My guess is that many players still don't understand how to place turrets right. They often place them right next to the gen (and so next to the controllstation), which means Xeno comes out of the Controllstation, the turret is off, and Xeno can destroy it and the survivor player is like "Turrets are useless, killer too strong" - I saw it when Otz posted his tierlist video and many players were shocked why Xeno is so low compared to their experiences. The crazy part about turrets is also that they make SoloQ better but they don't make the most use of it. If every survivor player would know how to place them right, no one would complain about Xeno - in fact they would feel bad. Maybe some players are also disappointed about the power and want a more "move-like" version. I also think players don't like the fact that Xeno has no charge time for her Tail attack, which means there is less reaction time for it and some players need more reaction time than others. I personal like this more because charging also means zoning, which leads me to your second point:
2. PH player is patient m2 holder. Holyyyy, just pray you won't go against player like me on PH. Wanna use window? Hit. Wanna use pallet? Hit. Wanna fake it? U r welcome, I'm patient > m1 hit. Predrop and prerun? Yeah, you kinda can, if you already have enough distance.
A similar issue have Huntress and Deathslinger too. There are so many situations where you can just hold your power forever and the survivors will zone themself out and then the killer can just M1 them or M2 them since survivors have no longer room to dodge the M2. In case of PH, he cannot hold his power forever, which makes it more fair, I guess. And then, there is also the issue with PH, how you want to fix this issue without making him more clumsy - don't get me wrong, that is not your point of your post how to fix it.
it's more about how community complain about completely okish things, while things are much worse exist in complete oblivion.
I guess, the answer is as long as a killer can give you, the survivor player, a satisfying feeling, it is okay like dodging a Hatchet from Huntress, shot from Deathslinger, dodging Nemesis' Tentacle hit to deny Tier 2, or an M2 from PH feels good from the survivor Pov. Meanwhile, dodging a Knife from Trickster feels not satisfying because he has so many of them and can just spam it. Similar goes for Xeno - it does not feel satisfying when dodging a Tail Attacke while getting hit has a bad taste like already explained why.
I guess in the end nearly every killer has some type of unhealthy or stupid gameplay mechanic but not many players complain about it because we have 38 killers in this game and some of them you will face every 150 matches and then there is always the chance that this killerplayer is just doing their daily with the killer which means an average-casual player. The only moments when the community agrees with stupid or unhealthy killer mechanics is when it's either very common or so insane stupid bs like original Skull Merchant or Pallet-Scamper Chucky.
I also have the theory that the developers are okay with some of these things (let's be honest, you cannot make every killer healthy, fair, fun, and unique) as long as the average playerbase is not complaining too much about it or abuse it which brings me back to your point: Artist and Hag are very rare killers.
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When we have obnoxious killers like Twins, Pyramid head is of no concern.
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RIP his (obviously objectively /s) better PTB chase theme. It got changed for being “too loud and distracting,” and then Trickster was released immediately after… and then we also got Skull Merchant too… ☠️ Behavior did PH DIRTY for the reason to change his chase music, even though it was leagues better in the PTB, because the killer chase themes after were MUCH more obnoxious.
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he''s boring to play. he is amazing at tunneling with cages and it is hard quantify how valuable tunneling unconditional out of the game is. it depends on how how easily survivors let you set it up.
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"He is amazing at tunneling with cages"
Brother he can't even ######### see where you end up, and it's guaranteed to be across the map. Half the time they're immedietly yoinked and healed before you can make it halfway to the rescue notif.
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that is pretty good. the value of cages is being able to chase survivors 2 times consecutively without any fear of perks. i am not joking when i say that safest place that survivor can be when being tunneled is on the hook.
that is why 60→70 second change is huge deal because it nerf tunneling. you can't tunnel people that are on hook. they need to be unhooked first. that is why i don't really agree with @jesterkind opinion that hook = pressure. if anything, the best thing for me as killer is that i hook someone and that they're immediately get unhooked so i can chase them again.
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Just wanna point out that I've seen experienced Pyramid Head Mains able to predict with scary accuracy where survivors will appear in cages... and the thing is, he doesn't need to even be that accurate, he just needs to have a rough idea, and the notification will do the work for him...
Remember cages do not activate any abilities or perks to prevent tunneling. No BT, no OTR, no DS, no DH, no We'll Make It, No Resurgence. I haven't seen if StB works against it, but I am 99% sure that doesn't work either.
The point is... Pyramid Head played at max sweat, is a very nasty killer and a GOAT tunneler... I will admit I rarely see a PH playing that way, they're a bit like old Billy's, they usually just wanna have fun and get some sick hits...
Typically players who want to play hard ball will likely play Blight or Spirit so they can't get beaten on map pressure (which PH is vulnerable to)... but PH absolutely can be a utter pain train when he wants to be... 😶😶😶
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My guess is that many players still don't understand how to place turrets right.
Xeno is whole different topic, he is the best example how majority of survivor player base don't even try to learn. I mean, you shouldn't even learn, it's enough to have 0 brain cells and 1 game behind to watch how Xeno comes out from station and instantly break your turret. But I guess it's not enough and every solo match I see turrets in front of control stations anyway.
My point is about chase, because PH better in every part of the chase except Xeno can press m2 and give hit right after animation.A similar issue have Huntress and Deathslinger too.
Kinda yes and no in the same time. H and D lose distance and PH shorten distance in m2. LoS blockers means a lot against H and D, but against PH they are nothing. But they don't punished for missing so much.
how you want to fix this issue without making him more clumsy
I wouldn't say there is issue at all and we need to fix something, it's just how PHead is designed. Gameplay where survivor has opportunity to dodge or avoid killer's attack in 100% of situations has no sense.
I agree on last parts, I think we can say that formula of complain consists of: how popular killer is, how good majority of players with this killer and how it feels to lose a chase to this killer.
Reading answers to this post, I have a strong feeling that people go against m2 holder PHead once in a year at best, most of them are m2 spammers. He also not too popular and hits from him don't create some "unfair" feeling for majority players.1 -
I actually enjoy vsing him cause ph players tend to play in obvious ways compared to other killers, they tend to even mind game their ownself lol and most time I just know what they going to do in advance.
Xeno damn right iol complain about that over grown cock roach, its huntress 2.0 getting unfair hits with its tail which do not even have any sign when its about to use it and a 2.0 demo with fast travel.
Cannons are ineffective specially of they use the add ons that reduces their effect. Its also stupid if you have a cannon get unlucky to bump into it, that is a free injury for it.
Only thing I hate of ph though is 95% of time they save their condemn for free mori which is interesting since people claim hooking takes too much time so why not cage?
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using pinheads box logic works on cages and you can pretty much know where the cage end up at.
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Fix his addons. Everything except M2 range is useless.
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I actually disagree with scott on many things but my man played perkless wesker and intentionally sabotaged his gameplay to go for 12 hooks every time and people still DCed. I really have the opposite experience to what you say, for one I play slinger and even before any of my perks come into play, if I snipe someone at the start of the match or get a quick down, its a 6/10 change they will DC or go next.
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I will say while I do not play perkless trapper often, I do play perkless Freddy and Perkless add-ons less huntress and have forever now. People do in fact DC for no reason at all, mostly on Freddy which is funny enough. I'm not a sweaty killer as I don't really care about the made up win conditions. Each person's experience in dbd is different. You for example might never see dcs depending on your level of playing, while others see them all the time. I have learned the higher you go in the imaginary mmr field the more likely the DCs occur.
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I never go into match without green duration addon.
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Literally yesterday played Dredge and Lara went afk after first hit through pallet, which she dropped right on me after hit. I left her on the ground, because I knew she would have went next after hooks, so I decided not to ruin match and literally gave her opportunity to play the game while having huge disadvantage for me. What I saw further? Minute passed and she wasn't picked up, so I wondered what's happening. Turned out she pressed shift for that time so her teammates couldn't pick her up.
Imagine, people literally prefer bleed out on the ground for 4 minutes instead of playing the game, where killer gave you a head start after your mistake.
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Players can be super petty in this game and I really understand very little of it like why even boot up the game
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Dracula 's hellfire us better in every way except for 10 sec cooldown and half the speed while it's fully charged (2 m/s vs 4.4 m/s) and he has access to 2 other killer powers that prevent holding w (bat) and weaponise long wall loops (wolf)
Just hold w and his power is shutdown for most of the chase
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You should be complaining about Dracula instead, because just one aspect of his power is just an arguably easier version of Pyramid Head's power.
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Reading your post reminded me of an old article I read about Mike White. It's something that always stuck with me.
"I called Mike for his insight into a story-related element. … When I finished the pitch, I asked him what he thought. He paused for a moment and said, 'Well… it sounds… in-ter-est-ing. But is it fun?'"The reason why I don't like playing as Pyramid Head, or going against Pyramid Head, is because the killer is interesting, but not fun. It is interesting working against his ranged attack and changing your thinking/behavior to outplay the killer's expectations. But at a certain point, having a power that you can only use one specific way in every situation is not fun. I either see your aura from the build I am running and can hit you with my power through walls, or I cannot. I'm not investing hours of my life into becoming a flick PhD, although I will admit is is very interesting to watch OnePumpWillie play him at a high level on Twitch. We can no longer pretend his trails actually do anything when they can be crouched over by survivors and go away after some time. Way. Too. Predictable.
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I agree, Pyramidhead has the better chase ability overall - Xenomorph's Tail Attack has some advantages but on average PH has the better one. One big advantage Xenomorph has over Pyramidhead that she can hit more unexpected hits. When using PHs M2, there is a red path that shows survivor what will happen before the real attack comes. PHs M2 has also no lingering - like Dracula's Hellfire or Unknown's UVX. Meanwhile, Xenomorph can hit through little gabs or drag the tail to left, right, up, and down - similar to Nemesis. Maybe that is also a reason why some players complain more about Xenomorph because they don't know about this and there is no visual indicator for it. But then, Nemesis' Tentacle has also no visual indicator for dragging and no one complains about unfair Nemesis' hits - however he has to hit you three times.
Yes, Huntress and Deathslinger lose distance by holding their M2 but survivors also lose distance by trying to dodge until survivors are at the point where they can no longer dodge due to lost distance and zoning. Demo can do a similar thing. I can see your point and why you not fully agree.
In terms of M2 killers: I guess many players go for risky/unnecessary M2s instead of the save M1 attack by zoning because they want to use their M2. I noticed a similar thing on the survivor side with perks, especially now Chaos Shuffle: Some players just want to use their perks because they have them. Same for killer players, they have their M2 attack (many players also chose a killer because of their ability) and want to use them but just because you have something does not mean you have to use it. But since many players have this mindset of go for M2, "most of them are M2 spammers". I hope that makes kinda sense what I want to explain.
However, there are also the situations where a player is still learning and has to make mistakes till they understand when to fake and when to use M2 - like you said, PH is an uncommen killer and has a high skill ceilling and floor, especially when you can flick . There are also players who try to use M2 for the style points. I main Artist and Unknown and sometimes I go for complicated M2 hits even though I know it is unnecessary but I wanna pull of cool tricks. But these are the obvious ones.
It's btw an interesting topic to talk, think, and read about. Like to see what other players say about playing as or against PH and why they have the opinion. Usually, when talking about PH it is about his addons and what type of QoL change he should get or sometimes how strong his tunneling potencial is. So nice to see something different. Same for talking about Xenomorph - same story with post about him.
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I get the point. Personally, I am not a fan of facing Pyramid Head because holding the power down at a Loop to cause Lose/Lose-Situations or coming back to cages immediatly for tunneling are not really great.
But I think the main reason that he is not really complained about is because he is really rare and even among the rare Killers there are some who are more hated. E.g. I take a PH-game over a Twins-game all the time, because against a Twins I know that I will spend the majority of time on the ground. Against a PH I might get tunneled or forced into Lose/Lose-SItuations, but I still play the game.
And other than that, people dont complain about things which are rare, since even if they face a PH, it might have been a few dozen games since they faced one and even if the match is bad, they dont care too much. If they go against a bunch of Blights on the other hand, this sticks more. (I mean, even a Killer who was completely fine like Wesker was complained about, simply because people were facing him too often.)
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