Make ranked solo queue, even for survivors?
Unpopular opinion here, but nothing is as despicably egregious as playing against a SWF. I have been going up against so many as of late, and it just kills the game. It should not be possible for people playing in a team to accrue points or complete challenges or anything else, for that matter, as it completely nulifies the idea of the game. The game is NOT thought to be played with friends (that's why there's no in-voice chat or anything). Behaviour should make solo queue mandatory for ranked matches; only custom matches should allow you to invite friends.
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Around half of all survs are in a two-man SWF, with far less in trios and even less than that in quads. But still about half. Do you have any idea what that would to to queue times for everyone, everywhere?
It was always intended to have SWF in the game, it just wasn't quite ready at launch and was quickly added in soon after. Imo they might have underestimated what effect comms and midigating the randomness of solo queue would have, but players pairing up was always intended.
The reasons for some perks being redundant using comms is just so those playing solo have more options available to them. They'd be insane not to think surv would use comms in some fashion, even in 2016.
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Third swf thread today
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All the more reason to make them a thing of the past.
The problem is there will never be a way to efficiently block all communications between survivors - even if you somehow installed something on the PC blocking all communication online, people could still call each other on Whatsapp.
No, SWF have to go, and the only way is to put an end to inviting friends on ranked. Wanna play with friends? Sure, make it unranked. But ranked should always be solo queue.
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There's absolutely no way to block comms on the consoles though, and they make up the vast majority of the overall playerbase.
And again, this suggestion would wreak queue times. Players joke about this thing or that killing off the game, but this idea prolly would.
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I prefer going against SWF since they usually don't act like guppies.
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BHVR could block it by not allowing Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft to access their game. But they cannot force any one of those companies to abandon their in-system communication settings. And they can’t produce updates to DbD that interfere with the console’s communication system either of they’ll be sued.
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I won't quote every post since, but my point remains: if we do away with squads, the game will improve. Balance will improve. Everything will improve.
The other thing I could think of is introducing a malus. For each player you bring to the match, a -1% in speed or repair speed or something. It's time to put an end to SWFs for good. Who's with me?
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“Who's with me?”
No one
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If you're going up against "so many" of these swf teams (despite 4man swfs who play super perfectly being incredibly rare), then perhaps they aren't actually swf at all. Perhaps you're in an MMR bracket that you shouldn't be and your opponents are simply better at the game?
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Nah, double checked: literally all of them from the same country and they even admitted to being in squads (laughing it off, most of the time). I am talking about 4/6 games today being like this. Insane.
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Deleting SWF kills the game. Outright.
idk why people forget that SWFs are the lifeblood of DBD. Content creation, matches played, so much of this game centers around SWFs.
You say the game would improve - there won't be a game to improve.
You yourself admit how many of them you go against, remove all those lobbies and think of how your queue time would tank. Also, its not "ranked matches", its pubs. This game doesn't have ranks. Hasn't had a displayed grade even in years, and hopefully we'll never get an actual ranked system either, not that this thread is about that at all.
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I think it is important to have perspective here.
You are suggesting for a multiplayer game to decentivize players from communicating with each other because you believe it provides an unfair advantage. I want to reiterate this point — you have a problem with people working together against you in a game designed for people to work together.
The problem is not that SWF is powerful. The problem is that SoloQ is not powerful enough.
If DBD introduces a ranked mode, I will not play it. There used to be a time in DBD where you could goof around, and goof around with other people who also wanted to goof around. If you wanted to take the game seriously, pip-up and go to a higher emblem. If the MMR system forced both of us into the same match, you would not like the outcome because our priorities are not in alignment, and you are taking the game 10x as seriously as I am. What if I just want to have fun?
We are both playing Dead by Daylight — but just as you wouldn't want the developers to balance the game for a casual audience, I don't want the developers to balance the game for a competitive one. There used to be a divider on the grocery store conveyer belt, which has been removed by MMR.
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There could be a normal mode and ranked mode, and they don't need to be balanced the same as each other.
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I agreed with you, but then 2v8 came out and revealed that matchmaking is actually a problem we have to consider. I am sure DBD previously had poor matchmaking over the years, but it wasn't until 2v8 that I became aware and concerned about queue splitting.
I don't have access to the data to make an informed decision, but I know the suits at BHVR have access to it. If they are comfortable with the current queue split between Chaos Shuffle/DBD Core in this very moment, then I am 100% on-board with your idea and believe they should also implement a perk banlist system controlled by the developers to address perk concerns (Forbidden - Not playable; Limited - Yellow; Semi-Limited - Green; Unlimited - Purple). The perk banlist system would not impact casual play in the casual queue, where it would be DBD in the current state. Like Old DBD, the casual queue would become the event queue—as casual players will play the events anyway and 3 queues is a lot.
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2v8 is the only game mode that really broke the queue times, and that was because of 2v8 itself, and not the fact that we had two game modes at the same time. We would have had the same queue time problem if 2v8 was the only game mode available.
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I disagree with this opinion.
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no swf would straight up kill this game. If you find it egregious, maybe go play something else. 🤷♂️
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The only reason ppl solo que is like to warm up or because the swf isnt on. There would be almost 0 people in that que.
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Imagine Killer queue time in ranked knowing all survivors were solo. It'd be worse than 2v8.
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If you watch the streams around release (they're on the official DBD YouTube channel) the devs talk alot about how the game is designed to be played with friends as an option. This narrative of "it was never meant to be" is made up by people who don't like SWF.
They were running out of time when release was coming up and had to decide between KYF and SWF at release - they went with KYF because they figured people would really want to do some private lobbies chasing their friends. When they announced this they said that SWF would definitely be coming after release.
As for comms in game they also addressed why they didn't - to save time/resources. They didn't see the point of making in game comms when people could use discord/platform comms to talk with their friends.
As for wanting to remove SWF from lobbies - when the devs shared stats with a breakdown of the player base SWF made up half of the survivor playerbase, 2SWF being the majority and 4SWF being at most 5%. If you were to remove SWF from the lobbies that would be half of the survivor playor base. Killers complained during 2v8 so much about wait times that they're now planning to add bots to event matches. If you remove half of the survivor player base from regular 1v4 that will definitely increase killer wait times and bots will be added to that queue as well. If you're fine playing against bots as killer then you are free to play the custom game mode now where you are guaranteed to never run into a SWF.
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How about insted of blaming other and look at yourself before anything 🤔 legit most people only go againts solo queue with barley any SwIF so sounds like u are either 1 using game play mechanics in a way that will cause you too loosed becasue you are used to going againts solo queue or 2 u have to win at any cost no matter what can continue to boost you mmr so high that you now any go againts swif becasue they game is legit set you like this if you prosit to win especially match u know you shpuld have lost becasue it so easy to go from 0 to everyone dead with just tunneling 1 person sees it too often
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Then perhaps do as I said: give survivors who team up a malus: the more survivors team up, the greater their malus. Or give the killer a bonus! +2%/+3%/+5% haste bonus if pitted against SWF, for instance.
I don't really follow what you wrote here. I'm not trying to artificially boost my MMR, is that is what you're saying. Quite the contrary, I'm more than content with being teamed up with absolute losers and destroying them utterly. Sure, I did try and knock out a survivor quickly from the game during Chaos Shuffle (the beauty of knowing that not everyone and their mother will have Decisive Strike), but then with non-modifier queue I try and pick them off rotating so that I don't get knifed with Decisive Strike.
Sure, if they should ever remove or nerf Decisive Strike…. oh boy, I would literally pick survivors one by one. But alas, that's never gonna happen.
EDIT: Reading your comment again, I get what you mean: nah, I don't tunnel survivors compulsively (mostly because DS makes it impossible to do so), so no, it's not that artificially inflating my MMR. I'm right where I should be, only that I'm constantly teamed up against 4-player SWF.
I just played four matches: three of them made of 4-players SWF. This is getting tiresome.
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A 4SWF has a 43.09% survival rate, only 2.75% more than solo. Even at high MMR it's under 50% survival rate. There's no reason to give people playing with friends malus while giving killers a bonus for facing them when the survival rates are under 50%. Punishing half of the player base for playing with their friends when they have under 50% survival rate is how you kill the survivor player base, killers will get long wait times and eventually BHVR filling regular 1v4 lobbies with bots.
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I think also people don't recognize that to get to higher MMR and even ranked or comp type of playstyles, they're typically coordinated SWFs. People who actively only play solo-queue are good at the game when they start learning and developing skills - it's why the player base is mostly consisting of veteran players and a mixture of new people.
Why a lot of games are considered "sweat fests", people play optimally the more and more you win.
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That could be it - I am probably in a High MMR and that's why the difference is so noticeable. Whenever I am playing against solos (easily recognisable when they are on different platforms and/or countries) I tend to fare way better, whereas 4-player SWFs are always significantly more difficult and coordinated (I noticed that I average something like four~three kills against full solo teams and two~one kills for 4-survivor SWFs, roughly, with other combinations falling anywhere in-between).
Oh well, I am a number's man; I do think a 10% difference between solo and 4-survivor SWF in high MMR is worrisome, but I would have thought the difference to be WAY greater than that (like 40% vs. 70%). I still think that a little bonus or malus here and there could help, but I understand given those numbers you shared that the devs and a majority of the playerbase should not feel the need to change anything.
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You killer mains are the source of it. Maybe stop asking for every good survivor perk to be gutted or stop tunneling/slugging so much that your mmr goes so high you get a competent non swf team that beats you?
You guys seem to cant process that while not common there are people who are not a swf just a set of 4 people who is on skill or better skill than you than even a average 4 man swf will stomp you.
You cant expect to have ez games all the time via solo q bullying. You got to accept that this game and any online multi-player game will have swf in it. Stop living in fantasy and give in to reality. You can always just play offline solo games or custom lobbies with bots.
Post edited by buggybug at2 -
" Whenever I am playing against solos (easily recognisable when they are on different platforms and/or countries) "
I wouldn't use that to judge. I know of a number of people who play together on different platforms. Also back in the day when I used to SWF I would regularly play with people in different countries.
I think a lot of people overestimate how many 4 stacks they face. I'm 100% solo theses days and quite regularly get accused of being in a SWF. Even if you say "no" they don't believe you.
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