General Discussions
General Discussions
State of the Game
As a type this, a Blight that was slugging us all at 5 gens, has me bodyblocked into a corner that he carried me to and dropped/picked me up to specifically put me here since I wasn't trying to wiggle (I'm the last Surv, hatch is still open). I'm recording this match, so far it's been +15 mins of this so I'm guessing this will end when the server boots us out at an hour.
This is the state of SoloQ, every match is miserable with maybe 1 match out of 10 actually having gameplay. Getting camped/tunneled/slugged every match or watching the Killer do it to someone else and SoloQ has no agency to do anything about it. Then some of these Killers are even saltier and extend this atrocious gameplay to outright griefing since they are tilted for what I assume is getting bullied in matches against SWF's.
Can BHVR do something about this or what? The game is falling apart rapidly since the end-game mori was added, eventually people aren't going to queue up for SoloQ anymore.
Comments
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I feel your pain.
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It's borderline unacceptable that something hasn't been done about the excessive amount of toxicity that is done just for the sake of wasting people's time. You are about to potentially have a massive influx of new players from a massive license. What do you think the first impression is going to be for all of the casual players who have the misfortune of being bled out by some weirdo who gets off on wasting everyone's time? It won't be good and it DOES drive people away from the game. The fact that there are people who defend this kind of thing is even weirder. I still don't know why fully bleeding someone and humping them on the ground isn't considered griefing. Make it ban worthy and it will stop immediately. It's not hard to tell when someone is doing it for the sake of being toxic. Either that or just let us leave the match with no penalty or loss of whatever we earned in the match
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judging from my personal experience, state of the soliQ is like this:
my team wanders around the map cleansing dull totems and opening chests while i loop the killer, killer drops chase so they can go for the rest of team, they fall down like flies, they go next on hook.
All in all, i get slugged for pressure maybe once in 5 matches and bled out once in 20 matches.
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If you view this primarily as a PVP game, then yes, solo queue is obviously in an unacceptable state right now. You lose ~60-70% of your games by design, and only half of those games will involve actual gameplay. The other half will be over before you've even seen the killer, or you're slugged for the better part of the trial.
But I don't think the devs view the game through the same lens as the playerbase for the most part. Many of the things that frustrate players are features to the devs. It's why things have to essentially catch on fire before they're addressed. A former dev is on record as saying that being able to camp and tunnel is a feature of DbD. Let that sink in.
It's why so many design decisions baffle the playerbase. The playerbase thinks this is a PVP game. The devs think this is a survival horror game that they very reluctantly balance when the community is at each other's throats over one issue or another.
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They already do. You sit in the pool with bad-behavior players.
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what do you want BHVR to do? They can nerf killers I suppose, which then just makes killer more difficult and frustrating when you go against good survivors / SWF teams. I can tell you that in most of my killer matches, the survivors are very good and certainly they don’t need more help. Maybe I’m just terrible at playing killer after more than 2,000 hours. If that’s the case, I’d love to have some of these people complaining about how bad the survivor side is to are to show me some of their gameplay and how to regularly stomp survivor teams.
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If you view this primarily as a PVP game, then yes, solo queue is obviously in an unacceptable state right now. You lose ~60-70% of your games by design, and only half of those games will involve actual gameplay. The other half will be over before you've even seen the killer, or you're slugged for the better part of the trial.
the only truly big design faults that are affecting soloQ right now are the fact that kobes still exist, nonexistent matchmaking (reminder that players wanted this) and challenges in their current state.
Other than that, most of the times you actually lose your soloQ matches it will be teammates griefing and simply refusing to improve at the game.
In least cases, it's actually your opponent. Same goes for killers.
But I don't think the devs view the game through the same lens as the playerbase for the most part. Many of the things that frustrate players are features to the devs. It's why things have to essentially catch on fire before they're addressed. A former dev is on record as saying that being able to camp and tunnel is a feature of DbD. Let that sink in.
ofc camping and tunneling is feature of dbd, same as early splitting gens and bodyblocking for teammates with a full anti-tunneling build.
It's why so many design decisions baffle the playerbase. The playerbase thinks this is a PVP game. The devs think this is a survival horror game that they very reluctantly balance when the community is at each other's throats over one issue or another.
BHVR has switched their focus from "free for all" to actual team based game so long ago, that's why survivor gameplay nowadays relies much more on teamwork than it ever used to before.
Players are the one that are actually still trapped in a delusion that they are still playing the game independently for themselves.
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Saying that players wanted this matchmaking is a total copout. It's irresponsible at best to deliver a broken system because "that's what the users wanted". No player wanted broken matchmaking. If you ask someone whether they want to wait in line or not, they're always going to say they'd rather not wait in line. They're not going to think of the implications. You shouldn't be asking them in the first place. Deliver a system that works. Bidirectional matchmaking was the way to go.
Solo queue is absolutely not a team based game as currently constructed. You can't have it both ways. You can't require teamwork for the role to succeed and then not have any way to see teammates' perks, or a way to communicate in-game, all while matching players across widely different skill levels. It doesn't work like that. Telepathy as balance has never worked in DbD.
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I'd be a lot more willing to buy into the survival horror framing if maps weren't bright af, everyone wasn't running around wearing neon and "surviving" meant more than holding m1 on a gen.
The fact I've heard that many people that play this game are not especially into horror normally is not a coincidence. I know most things aren't going to be scary after thousands of hours but there are clear decisions BHVR has made over the years that have pushed DBD from being horror to just horror themed, most of them were for gameplay reasons but nobody is ready for the conversation of "the more information you give someone the less they have to be scared about".
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Saying that players wanted this matchmaking is a total copout. It's irresponsible at best to deliver a broken system because "that's what the users wanted". No player wanted broken matchmaking. If you ask someone whether they want to wait in line or not, they're always going to say they'd rather not wait in line. They're not going to think of the implications. You shouldn't be asking them in the first place. Deliver a system that works. Bidirectional matchmaking was the way to go.
people are literally acting like matchmaking has no place in dbd even to this day, and most of them live in an illusion that current matchmaking actually places them against "good and sweaty players" when it's literally just putting them with average players.
Solo queue is absolutely not a team based game as currently constructed. You can't have it both ways. You can't require teamwork for the role to succeed and then not have any way to see teammates' perks, or a way to communicate in-game, all while matching players across widely different skill levels. It doesn't work like that. Telepathy as balance has never worked in DbD.
with teammates giving up on hook and forcing an early 3v1 being one of the biggest factors why you lose soloQ games, it's not about how soloQ is constructed, it's about mentality of people playing it :)
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Saying people complain about everything isnt an argument, it’s just a way to dismiss criticism without engaging with it. If we ignored all feedback just because complaints exist, no changes would ever be made to improve the game. And this mentality is absolutely not exclusive to one “side” there are many recent discussion posts about wanting to completely delete SWF all together or for players to receive penalties for play with friends. Everyone complains, because everyone has opinions.
Many killers before the current balance changes felt the same way many survivors do now—frustrated with their role, unable to enjoy playing, and feeling like they had no control. Thats why changes were made. If balance only matters when one role struggles but is dismissed when the other does, then the goal isnt balance, just bias.
Also, if the response to being body-blocked and slugged for 15 minutes is “maybe the game isnt for you,” then what does that say about what kind of experience people are expected to accept as normal? That is griefing, and I don’t believe it should be dismissed regardless of what role is doing it.
Many killers tunnel and slug, because it offers them more than playing for hooks does, which is why many feel it should not be discouraged. It’s not against the rules even though many acknowledge that it is universally unfun and that it does massively tip the scales which is why it’s so effective. Essentially, why should killers make the game harder for themselves by not playing this way? That same exact logic can be applied to SoloQ and SWF. Many killers struggle against SWF, and also acknowledge that it massively tips the scales, and can be very unfun to face. And as stated earlier many want nerfs or ability to SWF to be removed from the game, even though just like tunneling and slugging it is not against the rules to SWF. But what incentive do survivors have over playing SoloQ instead of SWF? What incentives do killers have over hooks instead of kills? Currently none.
No matter which role you or I or anyone prefers— Justifying griefing like this and ignoring majority of frustrations, only pushes the game to a more competitive and stressful place because there is becoming less and less reasons for killers to hook and less and less reasons for survivors to play solo. And both of those are the root of most frustrations for both roles of the game.
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If only that were true
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i love you for speaking truth, this company needs to change, skin will not save the game but health update will, ~30k daily players on steam and we are begging for SERVERS and correct gameplay like this is a 1 dev game LMAO
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You are lucky. I sometimes dream that my teammates would work on totems or open a chest. Instead they are usually just crouched down. Sometimes not even in a far corner. Just crouched in the middle of the map for no apparent reason. Not just one, it's always at least 2 of them
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People who manipulate game files found the "behavior rating". Reports after the game part of the shadow matchmaking system. Not only hours matter in DbD.
That gives me answers why example on Nea I play with smart and brave players who play until the end against killers with 100-500 hours but also when I play Ada or Sable it feels like a drop into the solo Q nightmare when people can "repair" only dull totems, lockers, using self-care without any other healing perks, crouch on the border of the map, and trade other players from the start because somebody has sole survivor + left behind combo vs killer guys with 2k,3k,5k+ hours0 -
People are entitled to their opinions but at some point it becomes a case of yet another complaint. Too many and you risk none of the complaints being addressed because why bother when it appears nothing will make you happy? In agree the body blocking warrants complaint (although I'm not sure why they didn't wiggle, maybe the killer thought they were afk so wouldn't mind if the game was dragged out) but I don't agree with bringing perfectly fine tactics like slugging, camping, and tunneling into it. It's like me playing call of duty then saying I don't this game, I don't like how people can kill me from a distance, I don't like how it's real time combat, I don't like the 3D maps and list a load things that make it what it is. Changing it would make it a top down, rouge like, turn based, sword fighting game.
My point is, this is the game we choose to play. Choosing to play a game where 1 in 10 matches has any GamePlay. If you don't like it fine, why continue to play? So many survivors say it's boring when killers do certain things. but the objective of the survivor is to sit on a gen and do the occasional skill check and chases are people going in circles around the killer and hopping from pallet to pallet. but that's the role people choose to play and then complain when they lose and blame the killer and whatever tactic that caused them to lose (slugging, tunneling, even perks like noed or a particular killer)
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Almost 7k posts and you don't know what you play. Funny.
And nope, "behavior system" - true. How did I know? Cheaters. They speaking about that system, they use this system soooooo. If you don't see a link between facts and logic that is not for you. LMAO
I think you are one of these guys who never believe nobody before the devs don't say "Yes we use it" and then you have the green light for yourselfPost edited by BoxGhost on0 -
BHVR be like “Can’t do anything about that. Too busy with “nerf Pig” trend. Look, she’s bald now. 🫵😂”
But seriously, the griefing is occurring more and more consistently that it’s really detrimental to gaining new players and returning old players.
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Almost 7k posts, 7k hours, 8 years of experience, and youre the very first person that has ever mentioned something like this. The sources I use for this sort of stuff have no mention of it either.
Also this is as far as "facts and logic" can be as a cheater would have absolutely no reason to use this.
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Brother the only truth youre speaking is your own confirmation bias. A conspiracy theory at best.
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Yeah soloQ is probably the most miserable it's ever been, I still escape occasionally but I feel like it's because the killer is either unbelievably bad or just against a lower tier killer like ghost face or legion. Some of it is just survivor players like the decision making of most survivors is questionable at best but it also really does feel like most killers are tuned for SWFs these days.
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Regular wake up call for BHVR to make it so when you've got a crow you lose collision with everyone until you don't have it anymore. Such an easy fix.
Also some option to give up once everyone is either slugged or hooked and there are zero self unhook or self pickup perks. Maybe you could vote to give up as a team, and then DC without penalty while keeping your points if you've given up.
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I get the concern that too much complaining could lead to being ignored, but complaints are feedback, and we have seen the opposite effect with DBD. Changes like reworking Distoriton or TOTH happened because of complaints. The devs decide whats worth addressing, but dismissing all criticism because it exists would mean no balance changes ever happen.
You’re free to defend tunneling, camping, and slugging, but others are just as free to criticize them. Saying “it exists, so don’t complain” means no one could ever push for balance in any aspect of the game simply because it already exists. And things that have existed can and have changed, from small details to decreasing weapon swipe animation time to adding anti-camp features. Changes are not exclusive to new additions— anything can be changed, even the bloodweb and skin customizations.Live service games need feedback to evolve. DBD is constantly changing which means there will always be new complaints. If it were a full purchase game like Fallout New Vegas, or Red Dead Redemption or Resident Evil, complaints wouldn’t make as much of an impact because what’s done is done, those aren’t live service games where your input can change entire game mechanics. Games like DBD, Destiny 2, Marvel Rivals all are constantly updated, and expecting players to accept every change without question or opinion isn’t realistic. “If you don’t like it, dont play” is how games die. People give feedback because they want to keep playing, not because they want to quit.
At the end of the day, DBD is a game that evolves through player feedback—both positive and negative. Dismissing criticism with “that’s just how the game is” ignores that many past changes, even ones you may or may not agree with, came from similar complaints. The Devs absolutely do take the community’s words and opinions into consideration, and we have seen the results of those changes in many aspects of the game.
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Surv isn't for me? Bud did you even read my post? Body blocking me into a corner in my SoloQ match that was a slugfest at 5 gens anyway, for +25 mins, what Surv is for that?
This unaddressed baffoonery is going to lead to long queue times and no player retention. SoloQ has never been more miserable.
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i dont know what Beahvior can actually do. To me, it isnt a balance issue, its a player issue. The toxicity comes from the players conscious decision to be that way. Its a consequence of the hyper competitive and the "not responsible for your fun" crowd. A player rep system might help a little, but im not sure how. More or less the "shame them into acting right" philosophy
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SoloQ to me is horrendous. With being screwed by my team because I'm a random. Teammates just going on one hook. Being slugged because the killer NEEDS the 4k instead of just hooking and hoping for the best I mean you won more kills then escapes so you know. Then just matchmaking in general I won't lie playing something like Dark Souls with no idea on how to play it would seem more fun then hoping to get one good match of dbd in soloQ
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Culture is the result of what you allow, reinforce, accept, or reward daily.
I find it really interesting that you have survivors on here stating the game has never been worse for them due to camping/tunneling/slugging, and then you have killers defending those tactics stating they've "always been a part of the game". You look up those exact same killers' past forum posts and they're complaining that they only queue against the same group of survivors who don't play the game as it should be played (quitting when they don't get their maps of choice)… Almost like people don't want to deal with it and have moved on?
Behaviour has turned a blind eye to this seemingly because they keep getting away with it via new folks being added in. As a result… here we are: a landscape of babies and shitheads.
Have been playing for years with friends, and we're now discussing playing something new because this has gotten so corrosive for the survivor experience that either we be corrosive back in order to try and avoid the nonsense or we leave.
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Killers justify it because of SWF, if SWF was finally nerfed as it should be, the entire game could then become easier to balance… but instead we have BHVR refusing to do anything, so both SoloQ and Killers roles are a nightmare. The only people who seem to enjoy this game anymore are SWF and if SoloQ leaves, Killers are not going to want to play against only SWF teams, then SWF will be left with even longer queues.
Also I state this before any shiller states Killer is the "best" it's ever been. While Killer is the best it's ever been, the games as Killer are unsatisfying sweat fests win or lose (unless using the obvs broken Killers that BHVR keeps in, to again, combat SWF or you are going up against 4 rando's), which is why Killers for the most part are all playing like scabs.
It's just this toxic cycle that's been allowed to continue for almost a decade with BHVR refusing to acknowledge the real issue of this cycle, SWF and the advantages they bring. I don't advocate for separate queues, but if people who play in SWF keep wanting to harp on others who are suggesting to balance that role out, then SoloQ and SWF should be entirely separate and BHVR can balance the game around two separate queues who play the game completely different than one another.
Overall though, this game had fundamentally been built on not fun, but masochism that breeds immense resentment towards whoever your opponent is, in the game. That type of thing can't easily be undone and BHVR has backed themselves into a corner over it.
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To me personally the state of the game is:
- Most Survivor players don't know what to do against any killer they're facing. They're still camping pallets against Nurse, they don't put any flamethrowers against Xeno, they have absolutely no idea who even Hag is, etc.
- Most Survivor players don't know how to loop, they don't check corners, sometimes they're blatantly ignoring pallets or tiles, running pass those, or changing direction into a dead zones.
- Being overly altruistic.
- They don't wait for the killer to leave the area after hooking a survivor. Rushing for the unhook as fast as they can, despite the killer right behind them.
- (Other way around) They don't unhook to "tunnel gen" a little longer to the point the hooked survivor reaching the second stage.
- They do ANYTHING, but gens.
- Giving up on hooks, or DC-ing.
- Blatantly expecting to face the killer they "like to play against", or expecting to face a "baby killer".
- They don't take chases\hooks for the team, despite being the only survivor who haven't been hooked yet or got any chases.
- They don't even try to play as a team.
I can go on for longer, but you got the point. When survivor players knows what game they're playing - killer will not be able to slug all 4, tunneling will only result in 1k.
And let's get 1 thing out of the way… End-game Mori has nothing to do with anything you mentioned.
Killers could've tunnel or slug even without this feature.
And let's get another thing out of the way - before anti-face camp mechanic and base-kit BT - it was numerous times worse. Let's not forget how the game used to be, and pretend like: "The game was better before". I keep seeing how people still mentioning how it was, despite the atrocious state of: "OP perks, OP loops, OP tactics" etc.
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i would add 11th reason that pushed it's way through with Hex meta. And that's:
"if it glows it goes" mentality heavily pushed by content creators.
People are quite often making humongous mistakes by deciding to cleanse hex totems they find along the way while not even being aware of what perks are in play, just to end up cleansing Undying and giving killer their first and very strong Pentimento token, or simply wasting their own time they could spend working on a gen.
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Simple solution. Force game to require 9 hook stages for the killer to win the game. And in return we want SWF banned from SoloQ, only being able to invite 1 friend, If you want to play with your friend then add another friend killer you can bully in your custom games.
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And risk devour? No. If it glows it goes is always the right decision unless you know for a fact exactly what the totems are which is rare. The fact that survivors are basically screwed at this point no matter what they do when it comes to totems is just another example of the game being killer sided.
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Get better at the game instead of blaming your losses on swf
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you never get bored of it, do you? I would if i was at your place
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We should make a protest where we all play as killers and as toxic as possible during the release.
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- Killer doesn't have a hitbox after dropping a survivor. They can't put you in a corner unless you do nothing.
- holding another player like this is banable and you should of reported it.
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Bit rich to say "maybe the role isn't for you" coming from the guy who hates going against people who loop 😁
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That's why I main PH and Myers. PH has pretty good anti loop power and tombstone Myers with pwyf is very handy for keeping the loops to a minimum. Just blast through the pallets 😁
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I just can't even imagine a game were not even a single gen is completed unless the killer is hacking or the whole team is trolling. I do get my fair share of bad team mates but usually most games are 4 or 5 gens done.
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Yea I don't really buy that.
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Eh, all it takes is for one person to cleanse a Hex totem and remember the placement of the notification (every single survivor should take note in case of Pentimento).
Now it becomes an issue for a survivor cleansing a dull totem - but that same survivor should remember where they cleansed the dull totem lol.
I incorporate if it glows it goes, but will often think twice about Thrill of the Hunt as I don't care to cleanse it as it's too time consuming to do so (that might be a hot take) but I'd rather gens go brrrrr than to sit on a totem and cleanse it for Thrill of the Hunt to still be in play and triggering Pentimento by accident.
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I honestly lol'd at forcing killers to get all hook stages to win the game.
What kinda weird workaround is that? How would that even be implemented?
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It's not in a great state right now. Had a short day at work yesterday so hopped on yesterday afternoon for some games. Four games in a row the first survivor caught killed themself on hook. In one of those games, against a P100 Wraith, he bled the me and the others out after body blocking me in by a chest for a few minutes. Could see him going backwards and forwards on the other guy for the entire time.
Didn't hook anyone even when everyone was down and Unbreakable had already been used so wasn't in play anymore. What do these idiots get out of doing this? And the amount of games rendered pointless from less than a minute in is a real problem.
They kill Wake Up because it is apparently a selfish perk that you would see maybe once a month, yet game after game after game is killed by the 4% mechanic being not used as intended in the first minute to completely destroy matches. That makes no sense at all and I wonder what they are thinking at times.
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I stopped playing until the next 2v8 game mode, I tried to do Chaos Shuffle but my first few matches were shameless slugging and tunnelling at 5 gens so I just quit playing altogether and have only logged in weekly for the free gift.
Something has to change fast as the game is absolutely miserable for survivors lately, especially for the ever suffering solo queue enjoyer (which is my preferred role).
If survivors continue to leave, the game will die as we all can figure out there are 4 survivors required for every killer.
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Just swap people for bots. At least bots don't suicide on hook or DC at the slightest thing or hide for eternity hoping to get the hatch. and I would be fine killing bots.
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I agree. Skip fixing the game as that's just more money spent. Instead, bots. Bots are more reliable than humans for a number of reasons. But bots don't inflate player counts.
……Or do they? I could see that happening lol. "12 million players! (9 mil are bots)"
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I mean, you can do this already if that is how you really want to play the game, only downside is no progression/BP.
They will end up having to do this if things keep declining, otherwise lobbies will take too long to fill and forget any notions of accurate MMR as it will just be a case of whoever they can get to fill a lobby.
I don't want to play against or with bots, other than if a team mate DC's
(Which is why I sway towards getting rid of the DC penalty as it just encourages going next on first hook rather than leaving a bot that may do gens. But that is another topic in itself of course).
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i keep a record of all my games an all games are streamed you're welcome to check out nearly 800 videos i have on my youtube :)
I didn't deny your experiences I just say I can't imagine it as it's different from my own.0 -
- Body blocking to hold hostage should definetely be considered as a bannable offense.
Solution : remove collision for a couple of seconds when a survivor has one "afk crow" above their head.
2. Bleed out on purpose is obnoxious, it could be a bannable offense, less severe then point 1. tho :
Solution : when no recovery perks is available (unbreakable used or absent / no boon exponential lightened on the map) and there is no survivor standing left for more than 15 seconds, give an "instant bleed out" option.
Why only 15 seconds ? So Killer can't reset the timer by repeatedly picking up/dropping survivor to put them back on their feet.
3. I strongly disagree with the "1 out of 10 game actually having gameplay".
You are not giving realistic feedback there, please stop giving those hyperbolic numbers.
Stop mixing real griefing with strong and valid killer strategies.
Also as usual on this forum, you forgot to mention that solo Q matches are griefed by survivors themselves sometimes.
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