http://dbd.game/killswitch
Does getting a 4k even mean anything anymore?
Like presuming you're not playing like Trapper or Myers or the literal bottom of the barrel killers does getting a 4k mean anything anymore? I haven't lost as killer in literally weeks and my soloQ games meanwhile are completely miserable and it just feels like to me the balance of DBD went from completely survivor sided with infinites and quick gens and insta-heals to killers not really having to work all that hard to get kills because maps are much smaller, there's generally speaking much fewer pallets on maps and survivor perks are generally much weaker now so you're relying on teammates that have barely any game sense.
I'm not asking to go back to how survivors were as recently as 2020 that was awful but the pendulum seems to have swung too far in the other direction and now I don't even really feel like I can be happy about going on such amazing winning streaks because they feel like they've practically been handed to me at this point. I've played probably around 35ish killer games this week and I've had to actually put in effort in maybe 2 or 3 of them? So I don't know what's going on idk if killer as a whole is just overtuned rn, all the good survivors stopped playing or if I'm better than I think (I think I'm very average personally) and a lot of killers that arn't me are actually struggling right now.
So I guess my question is to other killer players and I'm just asking how you're doing? Have your games been easy recently or does it feel like you still have to really put in effort to 3 or 4k?
Comments
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I play killer about 50% of the time and the difficulty level seems fine to me. Some matches I stomp the survivors (especially if someone DCs or goes next), some matches I get 3-4 hooks and no kills, and everything in between.
I have to say that every time I see posts from people claiming that they never lose as killer, I am highly skeptical. Even the best pro streamers don’t go for weeks without losing like you claim. If you really are this good, why don’t you stream or play competitively? I’m not saying this to be rude or dismissive - it’s just difficult to believe. Winning this often would put you in like the top 0.01% of players in the world.8 -
I don't stream personally because I get social anxiety, I don't think I'd be very entertaining lol. As for comp, there's like no reason for me to? There's not really any money in it and I don't find comp that interesting. I don't think my winning streak is that crazy I'm probably at around 35 wins in a row with hag and twins each as I alternate between the two and I know I'm nowhere near any records or anything. I mean I know Dowsey did like 200 wins in a row with Twins when they first came out and they were much worse and much more buggy then.
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The matchmaking basically doesn't exist so the survivor team will get screwed over by one survivor who is not good. Usually this was not a problem back then because the maps had way more resources and "wasting time" aka not doing gens was less punishing. Anyway, only a 4 man swf that wants to win should challenge you. Everything else is fodder
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Yeah this is very true, I recall a game I had as Xeno quite a while back and beginning of the game I was getting destroyed like the team was very good at looping and I had keep abandoning chase to avoid wasting too much time but then I found the 4th survivor who was considerably worse and tunneled them out quite easily and the other three players couldn't handle the 3v1 afterwards and I won a game I probably shouldn't have. Survivor is quite unforgiving in that way where if you have even one mad teammate and the killer picks up on it that's probably enough to end the game there.
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Most maps also got completely gutted. Spawning dead zones everywhere to "help" M1 killers but anyone else will just down you in 15 seconds.
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only Haddonfield is significantly nerfed from it's previous version, other maps are barely touched at all lol. I love exaggeration
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4k is always tough when 2 survivors hide at the end. I main PH and Myers (mostly Myers). I get a fair few 3/4k with PH if I hard tunnel and think "no survivor handbook rules, go for the win" if I play chill then I'm lucky to get 1 or 2k. Myers is a whole different story tho, it's been months since I lost with Myers. Worst I have done is 2k on autohaven. But that's partly due to so many survivors giving up at the sight of Myers or after the 1st tombstone. If it's solo and 1 gets mori, 1 quits the other 2 either hide for hatch or just give up. If it's swf and 1 decides they don't like the map or the killer they all just follow suit and give up.
Not all matches are like that tho, some people like playing against Myers because they find him scary so will play it through knowing they won't win because they like jump scare Myers.
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I have always believed matchmaking was the main reason for this. It doesn't help that the content creators who sit on the advisory council are openly lobbying Behavior to keep the matchmaking this way because it benefits them. This isn't some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory either. I'm not sure if I am allowed to mention names but two huge streamers have openly admitted this on stream.
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For others I think it still is. I see a lot of slugging for 4K in my games and have for a long while now.
For me personally, 4K doesn’t really mean anything. I play Spirit with at least two slowdowns, if I’m not 4K’ing it’s because I’m 3K’ing and giving hatch. I haven’t lost on Spirit since the Tomie skin came out at least. 4K’ing is the standard for high tier Killers and my expectation when I play Survivor so it doesn’t mean anything to me.
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Coldwind, yamaoka, borgos, haddonfield, red forest, some macmillan maps…
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Only time a 4k mattered was for an adept.
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Yeah the pendulum has definitely swung too far in the other direction. I’ve been warning of this for quite a long time now but people didn’t want to hear it.
And now we have an epidemic of survivors giving up every match because they’re dissatisfied with the game.
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Nope cause others will ask to see how you played then criticize anything they don't like
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Feels pretty good to get a 4K on Eyrie or Badham, so yes.
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It depends on a number of factors, like the killer, the map, tactics (like tunneling) etc. And the matchmaking, obvs.
A 4K by tunneling with Blight on Grave of Glenvale? Not even a little impressive.
A 4K without tunneling with Pig on Badham? You've done some serious work.
And everything in between.
And yeah, most of my solo queue games and in a 4K (at least the ones I spectate after I die), but painting the whole killer experience with a broad brush is missing a lot. But the problem is that like a quarter of my games are against sweaty Blights, it seems.
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Yamaoka was basically not touched when you see how minor changes are,
Borgo is insufferable for both sides,
Red Forest isn't shrunk, but instead visually reworked and made easier for stealthing due to how cluttered is,
Shelter Woods had it's main reworked to suit style of Tools of Torment chapter style, not really shrunk.
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I've noticed that survivors have essentially stopped doing gens as of late. That goes for my survivor games and my killer games. There's almost always 1 or 2 survivors who won't do generators.
The amount of slowdown a killer can stack means that all 4 survivors have to be efficient on gens and have decent chases. In one killer game in particular last night, I had 4 hooks before the first gen was completed. Players simply aren't doing anything. It's an epidemic at this point.
As for why, well... It does feel pretty awful to work a 90 second gen through Pain Res+Grim+Surge+DMS for example. I think the slowdown stacking has to be addressed. 3 and 4 gen slowdowns is completely excessive.
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Most 4k's that I'd get early clearly showed a mismatch. No one really enjoys those ones.
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MMR should be made stricter.
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It wasn't "impressive" back when I still played.
But the (one) escaping survivor often gloating over their (given) "win" or bad mouthing the killer to feel better about themselves (no tunneling aso btw) made it feel less rewarding not to go for the clean wipeout.
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It literally means nothing. I don't bother slugging the 3rd survivor unless it's for an adept or the odd tome challenge that requires it. If they get hatch, they get hatch, who cares? If they open the gate then, oh well, it's still a win for killer. I'm not dragging it out for an extra 5+ minutes and making someone waste their time on the ground just so I can see an animation I've seen several times before.
The game is already won for killer, lost for survivor, let's get into another game rather than messing about and wasting everyone's time.
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It never meant anything. Well, i started playing 2018, so idk what was before.
But it was always normal that you would win most of the time if you were decent and wanted to win. A team is always only as good as the weakest player and they are mostly bad.
I had so many matches where the killer ignored me and i could only watch the masacre. But its not only bad chases, its also leaving a 80% gen and never coming back, going down next to the hook etc.
I even had some matches where someone died at 4 gens and we got 2-3 out, simply bc nobody needed to unhook and heal the weak link (the killers probably thought it was over already and stopped sweating until it was too late, but still)
Something is just wrong if you get matched with people who cant last 20secs against a killer and you loop him for minutes. (and im not talking about S or high A-tier killer)
And dont get me wrong im not an impressive survivor player, i have zero chance against really good players.
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Imagine flexing a 4k as a killer in 2025
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I consider myself a killer main (Wraith) but I play a lot of solo queue, mainly until I reach Iri 1 and complete all challenges. Playing solo queue feels like you're a firefighter in a burning building with a team of strangers who all have different priorities and none of you can talk to each other. I'm trying to put out the fire, someone else is running around, possibly making the fire worse, someone hiding in a corner hoping the fire magically goes away, and another person who goes directly into the flames and expects you to save them. Meanwhile, the fire is hunting you down and you have no idea what your team is doing until it's too late.
4k does even mean anything to me. Yes, most people consider 4k a win, or even 3k. I consider a win when I'm Iri 1 and I would pip (seeing the progress bar over the pip). Imo if you wouldn't have pip up while on Iri 1 (which requires more progress than any other rank) you didn't do well enough in game. That's why it bothers me when someone gives up on 1st hook. that's 2 hooks that I wouldn't be able to get points for.1 -
I've become so apathetic about my matches that I don't even try for 4k's in a majority of them. Surv's get gens and I get a few hooks, maybe break some pallets but then I open the gates 95% of the time. More than anything playing this game has become an menial exchange of momentary virtual suffering just for some BP.
Post edited by Na1ts1rhc on1 -
it’s not impressive isn’t a 3-4k like the standard kill rate now? This isn’t a secret, it’s known they shifted from survivor favored to killer favored. It hasn’t meant anything in a long long time. Just like escaping used to mean absolutely nothing bc it was so common and basically handed to you even though killers had to use every single bit of game knowledge or tool at their disposal that was stacked against them to get wins against even decent teams(not great, just decent), and even then would struggle to get a 4k. Killer has on major training wheels compared to where the game started getting the 5 star treatment, meanwhile survivor is basically dead in a ditch, silver spoon missing. Welcome to the new age. Killer is king. Survivor is fodder. Also remove hatch, the apocalypse is already here.
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Its so funny reading these survivor main comments
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Dude honestly nobody sees twins or hag anymore, and either don't know how to play against them or don't like playing against them because most of them slug, tunnel, camp, etc so they just go next.
But in general, I mostly play survivor and a good bit of huntress. The main groups I struggle with on killer are swfs, they're more coordinated and know when to play defense for a team mate who's about to get sacrificed. But if it's a group of solo players... When I play solo, barely anyone is on gens, most of the game people are hiding or trying to sandbag someone else to get the killer off of them,, following the killer so they can try for a cheeky blind, or go next/DC immediately after they get hooked.
Point being, if you actually did have a 35 4k streak, it's probably a mix of the killers you play and survivors not wanting to deal, and getting uncoordinated teams.
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You know, I really don't think it does. It pretty much means you had it easy street as killer, as in the survivors were bad. And at low levels, that's fine. I just hate that at mid-high level you can only beat survivors who are below your caliber, because when they're just as good as you, no dice. So really the measure of whether you played well in a killer match or not is a full analysis, by you or someone else. Long gone are the days where the results of a match indicate your skill. Hooks, gens, smart plays in chase, smart macro plays, strategy, game awareness: none of these things are indicated by the kills/escapes on the results screen. So when someone tries to trash talk, "You couldn't EVEN get a 4k" (as free escape hatch exists, btw), you know it's just BS. Even trash talk for draws, although to me, survivors drawing or losing on a really strong map like Eyrie or Badham is pretty embarrassing.
We will still go for 4ks, obviously, because it's the best result (not rocket science, people), but that doesn't mean that kills are everything. They never were. Had the game been pushed more towards killer rewards for hooking, giving them a reason to hook, instead of giving survivors all this Terminator off-the-hook stuff, we wouldn't be fear mongering about a slugging meta right now. Hooks aren't perfect, but they're a better indicator of skill than kills.
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You are not allowed. I think BHVR's overall problem is listening to the main streamers. Problem is a majority don't play like them and don't have the skill. You want new people you have to tone down the killers and matchmake better. I remember when my son put a video of one of their streamers and he was complaining about Gabriels one perk. The next week word for word was why the nerfed the perk from PTB. I was mad, not because of this but because he was using the perk without normal gameplay and criticizing it based on that. They always listen to them and then when there is lashback they quietly revert most changes.
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But not because of what the killer's got. It's because of matchmaking. When MMR first dropped and worked properly, all of sudden the killers who were always winning with ranked (random) matchmaking started losing over and over. The devs then implemented 2 solutions: 1) That killers would be buffed because it was clear they needed it, but also 2) The MMR system would be "fixed" so that killers who got to high MMR didn't have those matches constantly. That skewed results enough, through weaker survivors getting put against the killers once again, to where the devs thought killer was OP, and just started nerfing killer left and right for like 2 years straight, and intermittently since then. But they never returned the matchmaking to its former glory. So you have worse survivor teammates than ever, and killers are weaker than ever, but because the majority of survivors lose given those conditions (because a majority of them are bad or have bad teammates), killers still kill them a lot, and get nerfs. And when they're reworked, the devs play super duper safe with it, like they're doing with Freddy now.
I don't see how modern survivor is so much weaker than old survivor. They just don't have infinites, instaheals, and Dead Hard for distance. Wow, so weak. Now they actually have to loop and play efficient? No wonder killers keep getting 4ks, when the survivors can't even meet the bare minimum.
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Nobody sees those killers anymore because they're garbage. Twins is garbage because they were made weaker after their scrapped rework than before, when all they could do was slug, and even that didn't work as long as (drum roll) 2 survivors ran together. What counterplay. And Hag has always been garbage. All it takes is 1 person to know the non-camera turn exploit, to be running away already by the time the Hag is even physically able to instantly to. 1 person knows to disrupt her traps? She loses the whole game. And now it's safer and more accessible than ever to do that, because they added the wipe away effect, even though simply tripping them on purpose after she picks someone up is more efficient. But both of their counterplays are pretty easy to understand, to where they'll struggle to get 4 hooks before all gens are done, especially Hag.
You're lucky on your solos. Mine don't do gens as efficiently as SWF (when it's SWF you're basically settling for a draw no matter what), but they do gens efficiently enough to win still. They could have 1-2 good loopers, or no good loopers as long as the tiles are strong (which they almost always are), and just win anyway. I'm constantly questioning, "What am I losing to right now? This?!" You make like 1 suboptimal play or 1 wrong guess and it's over. What the devs' plan has been, to buff the uncarryable solos to being carryable, it hasn't worked how they wanted. But it has made survivors who already know what they're doing literal untouchable gods, and has made even the half-decent survivors really hard to beat, because they have to do so little to win: sit on gens and run from 1 unmindgameable loop to the next.
I rarely believe people's win streaks, because it's the complete opposite of what I see when I play. I'll struggle to get a 2 streak of 4ks, let alone 30+, because either the survivors are too strong, or hatch happens. That's really what win streaks are on killer: you just keep getting lucky until you face 1 decent team, and then lose. There's no way they're doing these streaks, or MMR is just really screwed for them, if they're doing all these no perk/no add-on matches with non-S tier killers. I think a lot of them lie, because most of them aren't arguing in good faith to begin with, so why wouldn't they abuse the lack of info we have on them to push a narrative that favors them (that the devs will even listen to)?
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I don't think you actually read what I wrote, I pretty much play exclusively Hag and Twins and that's 35 wins on each of them not combined. Since then the Twins win streak ended with a 2k the other day but the Hag streak is still going and I'm on 48 wins. I also play a lot of survivor as well which is why that's not higher besides me just having other things to do lol.
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Generally only 30-40% of matches end in a 4k. Saying it's "pretty much most" is inaccurate.
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To me, 4Ks have never really mattered but this is especially true now.
The only time I actively play for a 4K is when trying to get an adept achievement. A 2K or 3K is fine by me, provided I'm happy with how I played in a match and I completed my challenge (if I was doing one). In fact, I often come close to 4K'ing but frequently let the last Survivor go because I don't care enough about getting a 4K.
Truthfully, I find Killer to be quite monotonous and dull nowadays, it seems a bit too easy to win matches. I don't mean this in an arrogant way, because I can, and do, play badly and lose, but it seems that only happens when I play poorly and throw the match. It's rarely due to the Survivors. I blame this on a mix of bad matchmaking and Killer becoming more and more oppressive in recent years, to the point where it's arguably too much.
I struggle to get myself to enjoy Killer now. It just does not feel rewarding. The only time I seem to have fun with this role is when learning new Killers and trying to understand what I can do with their power. 4Ks have never particularly mattered, and honestly shouldn't. Dead by Daylight, with some of its challenges, adept achievement requirements, and pipping system, puts too much emphasis on 4Ks. Additionally, content creators doing ridiculous win streaks does not help the situation. All it does is encourage others to try to do the same, leading to an overly competitive, frustrasting, and unfulfilling environment for everyone involved. Yes, 4Ks are impressive and should be seen as such when they happen, but a 3K, and even 2K to some extent, should be enough for players to succeed in this game. Focusing on 4Ks has only been detrimental to Dead by Daylight and its playerbase so far.
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That does make sense though, shouldn't it? If you're winning 30,40 games in a row then naturally you will be going against harder opponents as you progress, especially for long win streaks like that. If you personally are going against insane SWFs every game then you're a really good killer. You've climbed all the way to the top of the mountain so to speak. Going weeks with wins should eventually come to a stop, no? It's good that the more wins you get on that specific killer also increases the skill of your opponents, otherwise people would never be challenged nor could they ever improve.
(edits for spelling stuff my bad)
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Depends on your viewpoint. If I go into a match and someone gives up instantly, then no. I don't care about that match anymore, it is a doomed match and the outcome is already decided. If I go into a match and the MMR decides to throw me against new players for some reason, also no. That's not a match, you pit someone with 4k hours who's played since 2015 against a bunch of new players. That's like beating up your siblings when they were toddlers. It's boring and the only joy you could get out of it is to inflate your own ego.
For me personally I don't even take much joy in 4king to begin with, because the MMR system loves throwing me against people who love stacking ungodly broken nonsense against me when I win several matches back to back. It's like a ticking time bomb of "Well I know a match where I don't get to play is coming up soon." in the back of my mind.
It might just be a symptom of the fact that I've played for so long that I am really apathetic towards a lot of dbd as a whole, but I personally don't see any reason to 4k much anymore. It's a match of dbd and the amount of times I care about the outcome are few and far between.3 -
Hag and Twins are definitely noob stompers. Don't get me wrong, solo queue is cannon fodder for killers due to the existence of SWF, but these two killers are particularly rare that casual survivors will not know how to play optimally against them
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My guy I have been playing since 2016 what are you saying lmao.
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No I know what you're saying and I definitely play against SWFs at night for sure. I'm just saying I've been playing long enough that if SBMM isn't finding me hard matches now I don't know if it ever will, that's what the thread is about cuz it feels like the game has shifted too much to one side.
I mean it's also possible it's just nobody knowing how to play against Hag but I keep hearing people say Hag is unplayable so idk anymore.
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The amount of times ive killed 3, found hatch, then found the last survivor at the door and was forced to "feel bad" that i wasnt just letting them open the door lol i mean i gave them all the regular chances and im supposed to kill them but they always put up this "oh well.. just do it :(" look. Which ends up working 50% of the time. But yea i win most rounds with 4, even without ever slugging for it
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I’ve never understood why ppl say she’s unplayable. Hag mains are so rare but when you cross a killer that mains hag they are nasty and hard to counter if you’re not on swf. Hag isn’t easy to play and you have to be so much more thoughtful about your choices. You gotta dump so many hours into hag to be good with her, or really you’re just leaning on luck and she feels underwhelming. I’ve also met a lot of hags with terrible trap placement(it’s right there in the sand everyone can see it, it’s on the other side of the pallet everyone can see it). The ones trapping windows at the bottom and herding though are demons, there’s thought, sentience. Ones that make me go why is there a trap right here?!?! It’s because they’re smarter than the average bear. If you couldn’t wipe her traps, I shiver at the thought.
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Thankfully the solution to the problem was actually really simple I just went to play something else after both sides got to the point of being unplayable so now I am enjoying my other fun games where the people who play them are not either toxic monsters or annoyingly foolish in their game. Honestly feels nice not to deal with these things. I think I will just wait for Halloween so I buy some new characters on discount and just get the achievements for them and then I will be kinda getting towards completion of the game really. Because after you get all achievements you can without paying behaviour extra you pretty much won the game and there is nothing else to do unless you want to go to the highest mmr and suffer I guess. It is a possibility
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Yeah I can see it if I play survivor I just get to play sacrifice simulator sadly. Every game feels like that now and I am not even skilled at the game I just want to do generators and play against someone on my level not another 2000 hours player. You would be surprised how many of them I get and I am just 500 hours at most and most of that time is on a killer
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Yeah I agree like I don't think most people understand trap placement at all and they often times place traps like they're playing Trapper but outside of being the same killer archetype they're very different. The most common one I see is in front of pallets. Place a bear trap in front of the pallet and you deny the loop, place a mud trap in front of a pallet and you're probably asking to get hit in the face with the pallet lmao.
The other one I see is in the middle of intersections and I think this is the real reason people say Hag is weak because this is the one where yes it's likely to trigger but it's also extremely easy to do the camera trick on these types of traps so they won't result in hits if survivors are good most of the time and know they're there. People need to start placing traps in cramped areas and around corners where camera manipulation is either harder or impossible to do because take the camera trick away and the counterplay is crouching around the map and wiping the traps and most people have no patience for that and you just get easy hits constantly.
I don't think Hag is A tier or anything but I'm in agreement with gummypeachrings (10k hours hag main) she's solidly mid B tier and her bad reputation comes from people just completely misunderstanding her kit and how her weaknesses can be mitigated.
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There's nothing wrong with getting a 4K - it's the objective of the killer. However, I PERSONALLY don't see the point in "rubbing in the win". Everyone knows you won, so why not just let someone get a little extra bp and offer hatch? That's just my personal way that I play, but you can't really fault anyone for going for the 4K.
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Honestly yeah exactly, very well said and completely agree. She’s solid B for sure in the right dedicated hands. So very true about mitigating her weaknesses, and I can always tell when someone sinks time into her to understand all those parts, and when they don’t.
I think there’s a few things they can do to make her a little stronger without shooting her straight to S+ tier for example:Reduce her teleportation time just a tiny bit, not much. A little bit will go a long way for people trying to pick her up.
Movement speed it needs a buff, again not much just a little bit.
Negative status effect for wiping the traps, could incorporate it into an add on or make it base kit, just something that makes the threat a little more real with them. I mean honestly what’s a status effect when you can lose a whole health state for popping a trap. Survivors can’t be bothered most of the time because some of her kit is a little gimmicky in places. Her lunges and trap placement has to be perfect or you’re right, you’re not getting that hit and survivors are breaking her ankles.
These are just some minor things off the top of my head that wouldn’t require much work but would go a long way in terms of making her feel less underwhelming to people playing her especially people that haven’t sunk a bunch of time and resources into her or understanding every thing about her. Yeah there’s loads of bad hag players out there, there’s loads of bad survivors that lose to bad hags(I’ve watched it happen so many times), and then there’s hags with higher IQ that genuinely make me glad she’s harder to figure out and more people haven’t quite caught on. She’s a deceptive one for sure, not as low as most people would like to rate her. Low key she’s one wrong buff away from being a super villain and always has been, and on the other hand one wrong nerf away from being the laughing stock people think she is at face value. There’s some middle room though they can work with to make her feel better to others.
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Pro streamers? Do you mean streamers with 5k + hours? I would say a healthy portion of the players base has 1000s of hours. Don't mistake streamers that play a lot for comp players, even so either doesn't lose very often playing killer, and if they do 90 percent of the time it's because they were playing something weak or messing around.
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“Twins is garbage because they were made weaker after their scrapped rework than before, when all they could do was slug, and even that didn't work as long as (drum roll) 2 survivors ran together. ”
Nah your just not very good
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To many killers you would think it is a life changing achievement and even after subjecting their opponents to the most miserable match where half of them DC'd or gave up, they will still make sure to drag it out just that bit longer.
We all know the finisher mori is the problem here too, it made this so much worse
Edit: I am not a killer main but in my 6.5k hours I have played a lot of killer and personally I never cared so much that I had to slug for the 4k, with the exception being going for adepts where you kinda have to. I just leave it to RNG and if they find the hatch before me… meh, we all get to move on to a fresh game
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