http://dbd.game/killswitch
Ever thought off why slugging increased?
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My genuine answer: toxicity has spread through the community because of developer inaction. If you ask anyone what gets under their skin right now, they would say “slugging”. People who want to inflict pain on the community will now slug to get what they want.
The problem is that those players will not go away. Slugging will eventually be addressed. Then we will all be upset about something else and the cycle continues. We need BHVR to decide to be heroic more often or try to make a peace offering with those players somehow.
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It doesn’t matter if one side is “worse” than the other. This isn’t a contest of “which side has the worst problems”
If there should be an empathic rule of “players should care about the other side’s fun”, then it should apply to both sides of the game.
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I mean I'm sure some of them do.
I have enough Syringes/BNPs on Sable to run them literally every game for months to come but I generally don't because they can be a little cheesy. Most games I just bring a regular medkit.
Same way I generally avoid stacking 4 slowdowns on the killer side. Treating either side as a universal hivemind doesn't really work at all.
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They are trolling. Most killers don't have the luxury of easy opponents to do such a thing. Really, they're probably saying that just to put on a façade, like they're really just ragers/rage baiters, and play it off like they're Mr. Cool because you can't physically see or hear them.
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I honestly think the main thing that started it was the Flashlight buffer and then when Background Player was hyper buffed. It's super easy to get flashlight/flashbang saves now and I honestly personally believe the buffer change was one of the worst things they've ever added to this game. BGP just makes it worse because now you don't have to position properly for a save, you can be far away and do drive bys with flashbangs. Hooking for killer is already a massive time sink and the fact that for an extended period of time now it's just super risky to do means that people simply don't want to hook. Getting a hook save would be the same thing as a killer kicking a completed gen and then forcing survivors to do it again. It just feels bad.
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Well, we'll agree to disagree on the Overbrine stuff. But otherwise, I totally agree. What I've noticed is that due to the heavy nerfs killers have been getting in recent times, killers have been experimenting with new combos and meta options more than ever. They've tried Mindbreaker for a while, then switched to Unforseen/Nowhere To Hide, then from Eruption to Deadlock, not really Pop/Pain Res anymore, the return of Surge. But all of this is in response to killers having no good options anymore. It's not like all the experiments were from everyone running 1 meta build, and then it got nerfed, and now they're looking for the next best thing. No, the top like 10-12 meta killer perks had been nerfed, so now things that used to be considered trash are now appealing options. Tru3 explained that concept perfectly in MS paint.
There has been a lot of unreasonable nerfs, which were radical even when compared to what the community was asking for. Old Eruption was considered OP, so people advocated for more regression and less Incapacitated. We liked the Incapacitated effect of it, because it was one of the only perks that applied the effect, which is a pretty strong one. But they just got rid of it, and subbed it for useless aura. They turned Hangman's Trick, an already weak perk which I said they should've brought the ptb version to live, so that now it's a scourge hook, which killed the perk. The gen defence perk nerfs were the most glaring. Deadlock doesn't even block 30 seconds per use anymore, Ruin no longer destroys itself after a kill but it's still weak, and Pop/Pain Res obviously blow. I remember a time where Pop and Pain Res were at their strongest, and the killer could get 6-7 hooks thus 6-7 uses of those perks, and the gens still all got done. Then they nerfed them, to where Pain Res is 1-use, and Pop is regression of current, which scales down horribly. It's like, "Man, that value Pop. 5 whole percent off a gen." And then both had their numbers nerfed further. Like ######### man?
I've said to someone here that it would be hard to uncondition us from tunneling and slugging, because we're so used to having to do it, but that's never gonna happen if they don't start somewhere. Bring gen defence back, bring decent power in chase back, bring hexes back. Or at least stop further BS nerfs from happening. This is the weakest killer's ever felt by a mile.
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No, it wasn't. Knocking 25% off a gen was like 20 seconds. That's like nothing in the grand scheme of things, especially if 2 survivors were on it. And it doesn't do a thing if the gen gets done before you can kick it, which happens even when you get there in time, because survivors will go down for the gen just to make sure it's done. And your critique against Pain Res doesn't work because it does the same thing now, just with a gutted number of uses.
In the same way that y'all twist everything decent killer has as OP, we're trying to say that killer stuff is decent enough to run but not the worst thing ever. We're just trying to say that the things y'all complained about were not unbeatable like you claimed. Killers could get 6-7 uses out of Pop/Pain Res, and the gens would still all get finished, because the survivors were efficient. That's how much of a time time disparity there is between killer and survivor objectives. Some just don't accept any of this, and literally say stuff like, "You should be getting 4ks non-stop as killer, or U bad."
I agree with you on the last bit. Killers were always going to move towards tunneling, and in this case slugging, eventually. What the devs did by nerfing all of the hook reward stuff was accelerate the killer playerbase's gravitation to those strats. They shot themselves in the foot. I don't think survivors will adapt, because they hardly ever do. All it would take would be 1-2 anti-slug perks per team, and they'd be able to beat any slugging killer. Obviously we don't expect everyone on the team to have a pure anti-slug loadout, even though slugging is becoming meta. But because it's becoming meta, we do expect people to actually bring something, a perk or new game awareness, to try and counter that playstyle, rather than just complaining because, "It's unfair." And if slugging gets nerfed through base Unbreakable or something, what's the killers' next fallback? Because random chases aren't going to cut it.
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Anti-tunnel perks can't simply be countered. You can't tank the DS stun, because that's losing all your momentum on the spot. If you slug them til it runs out, that's more free time they just bought because you're waiting all this time just to put them right back on a 70-second hook, and they could be picked up by teammates before then. I really don't see how people say DS and OTR "does nothing" to a tunneling killer, especially if more than 1 person has it.
You're right on the slugging counters.
What I meant by the sabo and blind saves is that it's another reason not to hook, because you get massively punished if one of those things happens to you. Sabo isn't that weak, especially if there's a spread hooks offering, or just a bogus map like when Ormond or Swamp spawns literally 1 hook per corner, then nothing for miles. Or just regularly spaced hooks when you know you've got to drop the survivor, and now they're a free pick-up because they're immune to being carried again. Just because they're rare doesn't change this. And flashlight/flashbang saves are common enough, and they're way easier to pull off, especially with silent/through-walls flashbangs and off-screen flashlight saves. Blast Mine was a stretch by me, but just a bit. It's annoying to have to waste precious time kicking gens, especially with no Pop or other gen perk, and get stunned and blinded, and then have to redo the kick, and the perk's only requirement is that survivors do their objective. See how all of the killer disadvantages stack on top of each other to create a bigger problem? And of course, all of this gets amplified when SWF is in play.
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Killers would love for slugging to help them win, without wasting other players' time on the ground, but that's literally what slugging is. And the people on the ground aren't doing literally nothing. They're recovering and then crawling towards a teammate to reset with heals, or crawling to Exponential or something. If anything, that gives you more of a sense that you're actually accomplishing something than what killers usually deal with, which is going through the motions of doing the best chases they can, knowing that they're set to lose the match anyway. They're not prevented from playing the game per se, but they essentially are.
It's a dangerous way of wording it, for any of us. Survivors have argued that Legion with his deep wound, or 'Forever Freddy,' was "Stopping people from playing the game." Or gen defence, or gen rush.
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And that's the smart play. I usually say I can't play without Windows or Deja Vu. I technically can. Those perks, or my other non-essential perks, can be subbed out to bring counter perks for a common strategy. I've brought maps before to counter hexes and Trapper before. I've brought Resilience or Sprint Burst to counter Plague and Legion.
People are fed up because this game state is garbage. MMR is just putting whoever with whoever it wants, and making every match a sweat fest.
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You would be one of the extremely rare ones, every single game people do exactly the things i listed in my games.
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You aren't prevented from playing game on the ground, you can crawl around and teammates can heal you.
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not if they’re all on the floor which is where we are at in a lot of matches now.
Call it whatever skill issue you want. It wasn’t a skill issue when three survivors used to escape through the hatch. That was nerfed and quite rightly so. This is exactly the same. It’s problematic snd it needs to change.
I’ve taken unbreakable. I’ve taken exponential and through combinations of slugging and camping it still no use.
We are at a place where literally any positive change for survivors provokes the response of: ‘this is just going to mean killers are going to have to slug more’ and when that happens it exposes the crutch.
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But most people who slug are doing it to win, just like with tunneling and camping. Assigning "toxic" to everyone who uses it is an unfair argument. And even if that was true, they could slug all along. Why address it only now, when it can be easily conflated with people who just want to win? Sure, survivors can gen rush a killer or flashlight save all the time with the intention of making them feel bad, but do we destroy survivors' abilities to do those things because of that? No.
Killers will be upset if slugging goes, because the devs have a track record of taking away all this stuff from killer, and not giving them other viable options. And when they nerf both a killer thing and a survivor thing at once, it's usually a 2:1 ratio, survivors getting the softer blow, the better deal.
I don't know what you mean by giving a peace offering to the unthinking toxic people. I don't think that'll work. But if it does, the more the merrier. I'd love to see more strategies that both sides can enjoy.
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I wouldn’t doubt that a lot of people do, but I dont because I read feedback on both sides, and genuinely listen. All I can do is be the change I want to see and help alleviate that any way that I can in the matches I’m in.
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Exactly, on both points.
Survivors used to have stricter timing on blinds. That required game knowledge and was a skill. Now, they seem to blind super late or early, or from some wack angle where they're not even on the killer's screen, and now the killer has to redo a chase all over again. Nobody wants to deal with that. And then flashbangs, which are still busted, because they're dead silent and can go throw walls and the back of the killer's head.
All that, just for survivors to be immune for up to 70 seconds or more on hook, per hook, and 2-3 gens have been done, or almost done, for each. It sucks. Nobody's excited to play the role in this state, or play at all, because it's almost like playing to lose. That's why everyone switched to slugging. They also don't want to activate survivors' Terminator mode with DS, OTR, DH, We'll Make It, etc.
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slugging doesn’t need ‘to go’ it needs to change.
just like the hatch didn’t go. It changed and was made weaker to promote a more healthy overall playstyle.There are times when killers genuinely need to slug- but not when it’s a deliberate case of running around the map and slugging everyone at 5 gens or slugging for the 4k.
Not all killers who slug are toxic. But unfortunately it’s now so prominent it’s fuelling a toxic feeling overall. It’s now equal to the 3 man hatch escape epidemic. If that needed to change, so does this.
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Those matches are rare, even when playing a slugging build usually you will start hooking once everyone is downed.
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they’re really not at the moment - that’s the problem.
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They are.
And that is the exact same thing that i get told when i talk about SWF death squads that bully the killer constantly where they are lucky to even get a single hook "its rare"
Well here i am telling you the same thing. "Its rare"
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The 3 man hatch escapes were rare - it still got nerfed. Bully flashlight squads were rare. It still got nerfed. Face camping killers were rare. It still got nerfed. Four man Distortion squads were rare. It still got nerfed. 3 genning killers were super rare - it still got nerfed.
The point is regardless of whether you individually think it’s rare or not doesn’t matter. There’s a growing amount of people who think it’s not as a collective. You can call it crying all you want, but it’ll eventually get changed because killers who play into this style with the sole intention of making things miserable for others, of which there is a growing amount, are facilitating it.
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I dont think you played long enough to say 3-genning killers were super rare.
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my point was they weren’t rare. I was giving a list of things people have claimed were rare in an attempt for them not to be nerfed to make a parallel.
Clearly it made no difference whether those individuals who said it was rare thought so or not, because there was enough collective voice for BHVR to take action. It’s not going to be long before it’s the same here, in my opinion.
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I've been finding myself slugging a lot when I dont have time to pick up a survivor without letting a gen go, when I'm being rushed due to bad pressure, it's often my only way of getting pressure back and capitalising of co-ordination mistakes of the survivor team I'm up against.
Hooks sometimes in these situations feel like I have to give up said area as it counts as camping when a hook is next to a gen if the spawns are bad.0 -
Survivors regularly use defensive perks offensively. You have to try to not hit a recently unhooked survivor because they use their basekit BT, OTR, and/or DH to block for the rescuer. Then they become the best choice to chase and boom, you get hit with DS.
You can't absolve survivors of their part in this.
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A BT hit is an unsafe rescue, which is a free down. OTR, again, requires the survivor to do nothing in order to preserve their endurance, trading off for that one hit (Also mutually exclusive with BT). DH is an exhaustion perk, not an anti-tunnel perk, (Also mutually exclusive with BT and OTR) and if you slam your face into DS, that's still your fault. You could just leave 'em slugged instead and let them waste their own and likely their team's time.
And no, I know that survivors can -try- to use them offensively, but they don't -work- offensively unless the killer falls for it. You can make it incredibly unrewarding by simply smacking the bodyblocker out of the way and going for your initial target.
I've been hit by DS once, and that's all it took for me to learn my lesson. Every single time afterwards where they've tried to pull the stunts you're describing has rolled into a 4K for me.
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A BT hit is an unsafe rescue, which is a free down. OTR, again, requires the survivor to do nothing in order to preserve their endurance, trading off for that one hit (Also mutually exclusive with BT). DH is an exhaustion perk, not an anti-tunnel perk, (Also mutually exclusive with BT and OTR) and if you slam your face into DS, that's still your fault. You could just leave 'em slugged instead and let them waste their own and likely their team's time.
endurance on OTR gives you opportunity to tank hit for another teammate if they manage to get pushed in a deadzone, not to mention that it's grunts of pain removal and immunity to aura reading work even after conspicuous action perfectly for stealthing.
DH is "utility" perk giving you chance to tank additional hot after mending from OTR endurance for example. Awesome for extending chases when people know how to use it, and even as an aggressive anti-tunnel. It's NOT mutually exclusive with OTR, it would be if OTR gave you long exhaustion after hit maybe.
DS wise, hope you heard about hopping into a locker too :)
And no, I know that survivors can -try- to use them offensively, but they don't -work- offensively unless the killer falls for it. You can make it incredibly unrewarding by simply smacking the bodyblocker out of the way and going for your initial target.
unless the killer falls for it? Tanking hit for a teammate by intentionally standing between them and killer is not the "killer falling for it" gotcha at all.
Bodyblocker literally wants killer to hit them, and the endurance can be used in so many situations.
I've been hit by DS once, and that's all it took for me to learn my lesson. Every single time afterwards where they've tried to pull the stunts you're describing has rolled into a 4K for me.
because average player doesn't know how, when and where to force a down or hop into a locker to force a down (even if it's a slug it's in a good spot for a pickup). It's a lose-lose situation for killer when survivors actually have some macro knowledge.
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DH is "utility" perk giving you chance to tank additional hot after mending from OTR endurance for example. Awesome for extending chases when people know how to use it, and even as an aggressive anti-tunnel. It's NOT mutually exclusive with OTR, it would be if OTR gave you long exhaustion after hit maybe.
How much time do you want the survivor to waste? They get off the hook while you're in chase with someone else, and they don't help their team at all in order to tank a hit, then mend, then go chase the killer some more.
Half the time forum killers are bashing survivors for not doing gens enough, but if a survivor spends this much time off gens, it's unfair to the killer somehow.
DS wise, hope you heard about hopping into a locker too :)
How are you going to bodyblock from a locker?
unless the killer falls for it? Tanking hit for a teammate by intentionally standing between them and killer is not the "killer falling for it" gotcha at all.
No, but chasing them into a DS, is.
because average player doesn't know how, when and where to force a down or hop into a locker to force a down
It doesn't matter where they 'force' the down. Them going down gives me a ton of extra pressure, while I'm still in chase with someone. Leave 'em slugged. They give you free hits, free downs, the only thing you need to do is NOT chase them into a locker, NOT pick them up, just generally NOT hit spacebar on a person who was unhooked in the last 60 seconds and is conspicuously eager to get hooked, and all their effort will end up wasting more of their own time than the killer's.
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