possible ds rework?
Obviously a lot of people dont like the new ds rework and I thought of maybe a better solution to what it currently is
Decisive Strike. Using whatever is at hand, you stab at your aggressor in an ultimate attempt to escape. After being unhooked or unhooking yourself, Decisive Strike will become active and usable for 40/50/60 seconds. If hit within 10/15/20 seconds after Decisive Strike is used go into the DEEP WOUND state.
maybe this would make the perk slightly better and not make it completely overpowered and maybe force killers to stop tunneling thoughts?
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This is borrowed time, but I must have the perk and not others.
The new DS is better than many killer perks.
Survivors said tunneling is a noob strategie.
Now they have the new Anti Tunneling DS.
Now they say that the new DS is trash, because they cant activate it.
Zero Logic
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I don't use ds myself because its a one n done thing
I agree survivors complain to much about it and im just presenting an idea that might appease both sides and maybe end the whole ds arguement i see in every other forum
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They say new DS is trash because Enduring makes the stun non existent thus making an anti tunnelling perk ... worthless
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PREACH!
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If the "Deep Wound" thing worked like the old borrowed time. Then I would think that could be reasonable. Not the current one where it doesn't go down if you're being chased and simply mending when out of sight heals you regardless of status. I mean...hit....hit...hook....hit and D striked...Hit.and Deep Wound timer that won't go down in a chase...hit down. Thats literally 3 hits negated on a single perk. Way too much.
Perks are mean't to be advantages. They shouldn't FORCE a scenario. If a killer wants to waste time tunneling you then the team should make use of it. Getting tunneled sucks but forcing killers not to is BS. Its already BS the killer gets penalized for being around the hook when nearly everytime I get this penalty the circumstances called for it.
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A self-borrowed time? With stabbing? tsk
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Lot of people don't like the new DS because its not a free escape anymore. Only change I see being made is Enduring not effecting the stun time.
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because why should a killer perk ever counter something of the survivors kit right? we need more second chance perks and free escapes in this game.
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Again I will kindly ask you to please consider inactivating DS if someone else is hooked during the 60s timer.
That way it stays only as an antitunneling perk and not a 60s free escape regardless of anything else.
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@Condorloco_26 Billy or nurse could easily counter DS, then. We don't need to buff two of the strongest killers while nerfing all the other ones. Allowing the perk to not be affected by Enduring isn't even a big deal. The stun time is short and at the start of picking up, so you'll be back to doing stuff quickly. If you find yourself having an issue with the new DS, change targets.
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you gonna tell me now that slugging is the counter? and what else? thats not a counter at all. also what about the end game when doors are open. this perk should just never exist. like every other second chance perk. they are too strong and can break the game (not even gonna start with swf using it). and pls stop using terms like "tunneling". it makes you look silly using this made up bs. same ######### like killer mains use the gen rush term.
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I've used it a lot since the change and it has become useless because even tunnelling killers just slug to run down the timer. I think being the obsession at the beginning of the game should be removed but I still think if you hit decisive you should become the obsession.
I liked the idea of decisive being changed because it was too strong and an anti tunnelling perk would be good. Decisive was meant to be changed to stop tunnelling but I don't think it currently is doing that at the minute. I haven't been able to test the stun time because I've been plugged the whole time
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I'm not sure if you realise but the logic you're using here can be inverted. You're essentially asking for enduring to be a free kill without counterplay. Decisive strike is not really a free escape at this point, it is extremely conditional and very easy for the killer to avoid.
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My whole point being, I've already switched targets, I've already hooked another guy, and even injured a third one, when I downed again the first one. Why should I eat the antitunneling perk?
At this point just give unhooked guys i-frames for a minute, and don't let them interact with gens, chests, other survs except for healing, etc. I know it sounds really dumb. It is dumb.
As dumb as trying to force a slug or a stun if I'm actually NOT tunneling.
The scenarios I described several times now happened to me as Trapper and Wraith. Not exactly the most pressure inducing killers. The question is, why should I lose whatever pressure I may put on survs, if I already went out of my way to actually not tunnel?
Billy and Nurse are already guys that pressure the whole map effectively, even with DS not affected by enduring, survs are all the time in their toes, so no big difference in my eyes.
I now even agree on the stun timer not being affected by enduring, just please don't punish non-tunnelers. Especially non-mobile killers.
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i think u missed the point with the opened doors. also the old DS had no counter. i can agree to some point that the new one is getting cucked by enduring now. but why should a survivor perk not getting countered by a killer perk? i will not list all the perks now that counters the killers one or even their powers. we had this bs for 3 years and we dont need a stronger version of it again. i still remember what happened to unrelenting and it is still the same for a good reason.
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If a survivor unhooked in your face then that survivor should now be injured. Chase them instead and get a fresh hook.
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Why are we not allowed to have counters? Real talk. Why can survivors have multiple perks/in-game mechanics to counter not only our perks but our powers, but we actually have a straight counter and everyone wants DS buffed so we can't counter it anymore?
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There actually is. The counter is something that doesn't require any perk at all, which is a big part of the rework of that perk. To stop it from ever activating you can just chase a different survivor. Having an additional perk to hard counter to a very situational perk would be excessive. To use it, you first need to:
- Be hooked
- The killer has to tunnel you off the hook
- You need to go down and the killer needs to pick you up within 60 seconds
And you can add another condition on top of that with enduring currently, where the effect is almost entirely negated if the killer is using it unless you happen to be right next to a pallet or window already.
If we were talking old DS, sure, I'd be with you 100%. It was incredibly easy to pull off so having it be affected by enduring was fair game. But new DS is very situational and the killer has the option to ensure it never gets used, effectively making you waste a perk slot. Adding the possibility for it to be negated by a perk on top of that is redundant.
Counterplay is great and I'd always like to see everything have some counterplay, but too much just leaves whatever you're countering to be completely useless.
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I had a game where I just snowballed and got DS'd cuz I found the same guy after hooking someone else. Didn't tunnel them, didn't know it hadn't been a minute, didn't wanna slug cuz I wanted to keep my momentum. Not everyone runs Enduring, nor is it even good on a good chunk of killers technically. The big problem I see is it makes end-game hyper safe. It's better than old DS, but still has issues.
"Counterplay is great and I'd always like to see everything have some counterplay, but too much just leaves whatever you're countering to be completely useless."
So, like the Plague?
Post edited by Caretaker on1 -
@Condorloco_26 I understand where you're coming from. I just don't think there will be a way to implement it without giving an unintentional buff to killers who can easily down a second person before picking up the person they're tunneling. I've seen people run to get an unhooked and the killer downs the person saving and picks them up just for them to eat a DS. That whole scenario isn't good imo.
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@fluffybunny Thanks for your replies and also thanks for reading my posts. I know from this that you're open to discuss the matter and also you're taking the time to consider someone else's opinion.
I understand people want the perk to work somehow and not get it smashed useless. I also understand people don't want to have a wasted perk slot, especially for something that was utterly powerful in the past.
In an effort to settle the matter down with survivors I've even been in favor of letting the perk activate more than once in a game if the survivor is being actually tunneled. But only with a 15 secs timer, just as BT works.
I still do think, though, that downing and hooking another person defeats the whole tunneling concept. I mean, the freshly unhooked is not being tunneled anymore if the killer is going for someone else, takes the time to 2-hit them and hook them afterwards. The first unhooked guy already has had all the time to run away, heal, or hide, but failed to do any. Most likely they're doing gens or roaming to unhook another person.
This scenario happens all the time against SWF and has gamebreaking potential in the endgame, basically giving immunity to a team of coordinated hookdivers. No counterplay available for killers at all.
Anyway, I already know almost for sure they're going to change the perk so it won't be affected by enduring, so I think this will be my last opinion about it.
Just please devs don't market it anymore as an antitunelling perk. It's effectively an anti-momentum perk, an anti-snowball and anti-pressure perk.
It's 1 minute immunity plain and simple.
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No. The real problem with the DS is the stun time.
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This thread is a perfect example of survivors/bhvr disingeniously lobbying for their side.
AKA how to get Enduring nerfed as fast as possible.
The new DS doesn't even work properly at this moment, and this problem is indeed agravated by Enduring.
Someone even said it earlier:
The problem is that DS 's stun begin while the survivor haven't even ended his falling animation.
It's a BUG, since it never worked that way before, the falling animation proc'ed, THEN the stun activated ONLY when the survivor's foot touched the floor AKA the moment he can again control his character.
But no.
Better to disingeniously ignore this little "detail", and nerf Enduring, God forbid fixing it.
And then fixe it ! Tadaaaa, you know have a stronger DS and a gutted Enduring.
Quite a convenient bug, isn't it ?
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