Is anyone on controller noticing a delay or like your running through mud?

I'm not even wanting to play at all.

Out of curiosity, the premise of legion is "run fast and stab"...how's that much different than say a trapper who's placed his traps?...

Do I really need to explain how Trapper’s and Legion’s powers are different?

Pretty much. When legion hits you and runs away theres little difference to that survivor from a trapper hitting you and running away sans the mend timer…which can be replicated by that survivor having endurance or DH and voila you got hit by legion. If the problem is the premise of them, then everyones pretty much got a problem as everyone can effectively recreate the most complained about part that we see. In a sorta hilarious way its like having multiple uses of endurance that the survivor doesn't specifically control. Legion just gets to you faster and some extra tracking if they land the stab…which then usually gets them to go to someone else or follow you around exactly like a trapper without traps…So its like a trapper got an easy first hit to us. Or wraith. Or GF. and thats their only power so its not like we'd need to worry about them rushing at us from across the map invisible or a hatchet flying at us or something. Like how is being stabbed and mending abit each hit this much of a problem to people is what we'd personally want to know. The mend timer was even shortened in 2v8 and the legion needs to hit 8 slashes before a down in there.

It's not realistic to think that with 38 killers, and 703 possible combinations, that everything can get work.

When you look at it this way it would even make sense to believe a 2v8 mode couldn't work at all in any way shape or form so why try? Under this argument the highly popular 2v8 shouldn’t even exist yet it does.

I think it's easier to think of how something can't work instead of how it can. I still have a hard time believing that Bhvr would roll out an exciting new gamemode with no intention of bringing the full roster over to it.

There's a whole ton of survivor perks I can't use, and with good reason, in 2v8. Trying to force 1v4 perks into 2v8 would be a waste of time.

Again if this argument was followed to its natural conclusion then there would also be no point in developing new Survivor classes- which again I have a hard time believing won’t be making their way into future iterations.

That would be a lot of invested time for a secondary game mode when there are so many other issues to tackle.

Regardless of re-working Legion for 2v8, doesn’t this argument reinforce the idea that unless the game is perfect nothing else can be tried and worked on?

It’s easy to beg for new ways to play, and then complain when they aren’t perfect. It’s an easy yet unfair set-up. Are Survivors escaping against Legion? Yes. Will Legion be changed if their kills are too high? I can’t see why not? But outright advocating for the removal of a Killer who took development time to get 2v8 ready citing development costs seems counter-intuitive to me. I think the sunk-cost fallacy is often improperly applied by a community who assumes Bhvr’s “ill-intent” on the regular.

I understand the community wanting to do its due diligence of course. But the knee-jerk reaction of removing Killers we don’t like is… Definitely a reaction.

Imagine complaining about the weakest killer in the game

When you look at it this way it would even make sense to believe a 2v8 mode couldn't work at all in any way shape or form so why try? Under this argument the highly popular 2v8 shouldn’t even exist yet it does.

That's just not logical at all.

Being you're going to mention fallacies later, I'll mention a few as well, and this is an example of the Nirvana Fallacy: presuming that unless something can be perfectly done it shouldn't be done at all.

When you are taking a base thing and modifying it to a different format, various changes likely need to be made. Potentially including leaving some elements of the original behind.

As an example: in 1v1 challenges gens become irrelevant for extremely obvious reasons. That is a huge, core part of DbD that just disappears. Certain killers also don't get carried over. That doesn't mean 1v1 is somehow bad or shouldn't be tried, its just being realistic about the different formats.

I think it's easier to think of how something can't work instead of how it can.

Depends on the person, I'd say. But generally speaking people will always demand more and better.

I still have a hard time believing that Bhvr would roll out an exciting new gamemode with no intention of bringing the full roster over to it.

Why not?

'Hey, we got this mode, people will really love it, but when we look at how the killers are designed only 30 of 38 will make sense'

'Nope, trash it.'

As I said, my expectation is that BHVR thinks they'll get every killer in. Maybe they will succeed. But if some of the killers don't fit, there's nothing unexpected about that.

Again if this argument was followed to its natural conclusion then there would also be no point in developing new Survivor classes- which again I have a hard time believing won’t be making their way into future iterations.

You're confusing natural conclusion with a slippery slope fallacy.

Regardless of re-working Legion for 2v8, doesn’t this argument reinforce the idea that unless the game is perfect nothing else can be tried and worked on?

No, its being realistic about costs and development times.

While BHVR is a large company, there are still practical limitations. They have 1v4, new killers, new meta changes, bug fix, balances fixes, new modes, and every other change in 2v8 to think about.

Legion is a killer pretty despised by the exact portion of the player base BHVR needs more people to be playing. Taking all of that into consideration, pushing such an issue way down to the priority queue, probably into a 'never realistically going to get to' section would be a logical conclusion.

But outright advocating for the removal of a Killer who took development time to get 2v8 ready citing development costs seems counter-intuitive to me. I think the sunk-cost fallacy is often improperly applied by a community who assumes Bhvr’s “ill-intent” on the regular.

The sunk cost fallacy says you shouldn't prioritize the work you already put in. Time spent is irrelevant, only impact and costs/time going forward. I have no insight to how BHVR operates in their decision making or what it would take to get Legion to a place were more of the community was happy with him.

But the knee-jerk reaction of removing Killers we don’t like is… Definitely a reaction.

I'd say the chance that BHVR removes Legion is somewhere approaching 0%.

Legion is in, and will stay in. BHVR though should be cautious with killers as they go forward. Each new killer introduced now adds more complexities because killers can form teams that may be broken in balance and/or fun. It is possible that they'll come to a killer that is just best left to 1v4.

30+ min queue times as Killer

Not true, even during very late hours, it has max been about 10-15 mins for me. Still a decent chunk, but never 30+ mins.

What about all the players who are Legion fans?

Like myself, I love that they added Legion. It's amazing to get a 8 stab frenzy-combo speed and become freaking Sonic the Hedgehog across the map. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Casual players (which are majority of 2v8 players)

Source?

Giving one person what they want is definitely smarter than giving the other eight people what they want

If we use such an argument here, why can't it be used in regular play about literally any other thing Victims find problematic? It's a fallacies argument to say, that because the majority (the Victims) want something, it should trump the Killers say in every scenario, just because they're more.

Legion just sucks to play against and there's nothing else to it.

Highly subjective.

An actual Positive Polly! Keep up the good mood, friend, we need more of you in this game.

Seems like a lot of people are unhappy about Legion in 2v8. Perhaps Behaviour should nerf them for this mode reverting back to their base Frenzy chaining and/or make it so that Legion cannot down with their power at all?

it's not about them being strong, it's about them being the most boring killer to go against.

almost nonexistent chases with hit & run gameplay + mending simulator, truly a snoozefest to play

Look I hate legion too and I've been the first to DC against legion in normal mode among my friends but I believe that he isn't as problematic now.

You can easily turn off his power with camping the pallet, making him standard m1 without any perks, even if you get a hit, doesn't matter.

Real problem will happen if bhvr creates real synergy with oni, that will be a problem. Same goes for plague - I can't imagine oni + plague combo if everyone will be effected by plague's power.

You’re correct that you can’t please everyone. So BHVR has to try to please the largest number of people. The case of having Legion in the game is a great example. There are only a small number of Legion players but a huge number of survivor players. Many of those survivor players hate playing against Legion and won’t play 2v8 because Legion is super annoying/overpowered in this mode. BHVR can decide to make the few Legion players happy, which is what they have decided to do, or they can do what they should have done instead and leave Legion out to make the 2v8 mode more appealing to the survivor player base. This is a classic example of making a bad change to please a few people while alienating a lot of people.

just wait when they add plague lmfao they cannot add her in 2v8 the game will be unplayable lmfao

If people are hating on Legion, I can't wait to see the outrage once Plague and Twins arrive in 2v8 and become best friends.

some killers are just not good fits for 2v8 mode. I think it’s a very foolish goal to try to incorporate the whole killer roster into 2v8 mode

There is still a shortage of killer players in 1vs4 mode on the Asian servers, and you can find a match within 30 seconds of pressing a button, "always", regardless of the killer crowd in 2vs8 mode or whatever.

Lately I've been thinking alit abt Houndmaster and Freddy and how goated that combo would be. Pulling survivors into a pallet rupture would be pretty cool

No it wasn't, hes still terrible. Needing to get more hits before an insta down is actually a huge nerf, since healing is si easy in this gamemode. Theres no point in spreading injures ir playing hit and run, because it won't work

Survivor is fine, its just the terrible queue system giving you people in different regions and less skilled players that causes the common misconception that survivor is worse.

Legion wastes little to no time attempting to travel across the map multiple times for a single down, losing all their injuries in the process. It doesn't help that every teammate killer you get runs the shadow class and completely counters your power because they don't read what it does and just play and waste your time after queuing for ages.

With a friend, thats still not gonna help with the positioning of the survivors, the maps are huge and you can't force them closer to a legion when theres so many pallets for them to use where they are

Legion right beside nemesis and trapper, are the weakest killers in the mode right now. Wraith, Nurse, Blight and Wesker dominate either being already strong before getting innate buffs, or their buffs were insane, like Weskers and Wraiths

I would even go as far and say 2vs8 has greatly improved queque times in 1vs4. Before I had to wait 5 minutes or even more to get survivor match now both queques are fast in the mode.