A post on survivors seeing each other's perks in the lobby
This is a hotly debated topic with some claiming their is risk of toxicity or lobby dodging but I am here to advocate for it and explain why I think this isn't as big an issue as people make it out to be. I believe the vast majority of players will not care what perks you equip outside of a small selection of perks that many players will collectively share a distate for. This is not a problem with the community and is not a reason to hide perks but rather a problem with these perks themselves.
Left behind/sole survivor being the prime suspects. The fact that people would dodge them, is indicative of the perks themselves being problematic, they are poorly designed. These perks exist to support a defeatist playstyle, that assumes the entire team will die, and is thus used by players who play into that. People would certainly dodge these perks, because the playstyle these perks support is NOT a team playstyle. Playing survivor is a team game, but these perks contradict that, no one wants to play with someone who is not playing for the team. The solution is to rework these perks into a perks that help make a comeback as the team gets weaker to stick to their original themes without supporting the play style they do currently (ratting for hatch, gate with extra open speed)
To a lesser extent there's probably a (relatively) small number of players who would dodge players using bad (but otherwise not poorly designed) perks, but I do not think this would be prevalent enough to negatively impact the game, and also serves as a datapoint to identify perks that need to be buffed.
tl;dr: If so many people are dodging players that equip a certain perk or perks that the game experience is negatively impacted for users of that perk, that is a problem with the perk, not with the community and is not a good reason to hide perks.
Comments
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I'm curious how many people will stay in a lobby where someone brought No Mither?
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I honestly think less people will dodge no mither than sole survivor/left behind. At least there is some team benefit to equipping no mither. Although there ceratinly would be some, maybe it's time for the devs to acknowledge that there shouldn't be a "challenge perk" and will give no mither a benefit actually befitting it's downside. At the end of the day survivors a team game, I don't think it's unreasonable expectation that your team mates put a minimum amount of effort towards winning the game that involves taking perks that aren't outright a detriment.
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When I was trying to David's Adept (and tome challenges requiring No Mither/broken) I would get more teammates DC than usual and even more people would go next on 1st hook.
I'd get insults thrown at me post-game if I ran gimmick builds and I/the team died.
People would rather get hit by a penalty than dealing with someone not playing optimally, let that sink in and imagine if people could see perks before the game starts and could leave without a penalty. Survivors would literally have to last-second switch their own perks in order for teammates to not dodge.
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I think that you underestimate the amount of people that'd dodge over their teammates running bad perks. Not even the "selfish" ones like the ones you mentioned, but non-meta perks will probably get dodged by a good amount of people.
It should be shown in the pause menu in game, but not in the pre-game lobby.
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Exactly. If certain perks would cause a significant amount of dodges, that should be indicative that something is wrong with the perk, not the players dodging said perk.
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The stick does need some work regarding the aspect of showing lobby perks (and going next), such as a dodge penalty for too many avoided lobbies.
But I don't disagree that some perks should see improvement.
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I know how many people go next/DC against Legion or pre-nerf Skull Merchant. Tons of people will absolutely dodge games over the slightest inconvenience. To add to that there is the lower opportunity cost of dodging a lobby than leaving a game. Plus the tendency of people in this game to make up rules they expect the other players to follow...
Yeah, if that happens it will easily triple the time to get a match when I want to use my chest build or my altruistic pick up build or anything else that isn't meta.
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Take when prestige wasnt hidden for example. People would judge you before the game even started for being a 100. Now the same will happen on all your characters unless you are running meta.
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Agreed. Though I feel like I'd want to do experiments where I enter lobbies with No Mither, Self Care, and Finesse equipped to make people laugh. Maybe Plot Twist too.
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No Mither, Left Behind, either of the Invocations, Low Profile, Sole Survivor etc.
Most of these are long due for buffs/reworks
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This would never work. I could see them doing it where SWF can see eachothers perks, but i think you forget how toxic the community is. If youre running anything gimmicky people will leave. Any "bad" perks like no mither etc people will leave.
Also say good by to doing adepts. If the game valued communication like this they would, but too much communication for survivors would be way too detrimental to the killers. Thats why theres no in game VC. Obviously discord exists but no one wants to have every single game be against 4 people that coordinate and communicate well.
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Except that lobby dodging wouldnt only occur for Left Behind / Sole Survivor. It'd occur for adepts, for the Generalist achievements, for builds that arent sufficiently stacked.
Is that a problem with the perks, that if youre not running triple second chance with an exhaustion your teamamtes are considered well within their right to dodge you?
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True. Especially no mither and the 2 invocations. They serve literally no other purpose than to throw games.
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I dont think it's as detrimental as people think. In the hands of a good survivor No Mither + Weaving spiders can be pretty strong. So long as youre able to loop and keep yourself alive. I run it myself all of the time. People also seem to forget that one of the Most used Perks in the game is risilience and theres a lot of survivors that refuse healing and just opt to play injured for it's effects, so a lot of the player base seemingly play like theyre no mither anyways.
Saying "
They serve literally no other purpose than to throw games" is a bit of a stretch.
That being said, a large portion of the community is toxic and sweaty and wont take a risk like playing with someone running a no mither/Invocation build. Which is why they should never allow survivors to see each others perks in the lobby
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Personally I want to see people who have perks like Plot twist and innovation perks since running more than 1 does not help the game.
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Just show it on loading screen and let me see it during the game….
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