http://dbd.game/killswitch
Hook density on maps
Hooks appear every I'm what is the point of the petrified oak add-on, you can as well just disable wiggle Sabotour and the Oak Add-ons they are now killer supporting perks.
Everywhere you go there is a hook. You run the killer only to get downed under a hook, what's the point of the wiggle?
Honestly players when was the last time you saw a killer loose a survivor because the survivor wiggled of the shoulder before getting to the hook? Because I can tell you you need 3 perks at play to achieve that and it is still not guaranteed to escape. What a waste.
If there are deadlines with no pallets, then there should be dead zones with no hooks.
The killer should not e guaranteed a hook just a well as a survivor should not be guaranteed an escape let it be base on skill and intelligence, jeez.
Comments
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Wiggling exists because it ensures that the killer can't just take you across the map to hook you. It's not supposed to be a consistent way to get off.
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Or imagine if a Trapper or Hag could carry the survivors to the basement from everywhere on the map.
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You miss my point,I know you are intelligent to understand that wiggle is a good addition my issue is with the hook density.
At almost every point in the map the killer as 3 hook options even when they are at the edge of the map.
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I mean, you do realise that the moment hooking becomes inconsistent, killers will just stop trying and just slug? You've probably never experienced the infamous RPD library third floor, which made survivors unhookable, especially in combination with Boil Over.
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yeah I’ve played through a no hooks meta and you just end up slugged a lot, and getting everyone else slugged. So unless you got a 4man on comms, this is a terrible idea that just exacerbates slugging.
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but killers consistently walk across the map to hook you without you wiggling off so OP’s point still stands.
I went into a match the other day trying to do the ‘sabotage 12 hooks challenge’ so took a sabo build - Saboteur, toolbox with add ons and breakdown and the petrified oak offering.
I saboed two hooks and the killer was still able to hook the survivor with no issue at all. All of that should have some sort of impact but it just didn’t.
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Killers are sluggging at 5 gens now so what would be the difference? Any change is met with this excise and when it’s already rampant it really loses weight .
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but killers consistently walk across the map to hook you without you wiggling off so OP’s point still stands.
do they, tho? By virtue of maps being filled with geometry, and killers being able to carry survivors for 58.88 meters by default at most, that's simply impossible. Haddonfield not included, but I think it's pretty unanimously agreed that Haddonfield is too small.
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To be fair, a lot of the maps are too small now, which of course increases the hook density.
And yeah, even with Iron Grip and Agitation killers can't carry you all the way across the entire map if you're wiggling. That's just hyperbole.
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Imagine running around the map just to die under a hook or the hook is 8 steps away in any direction. Should survivors be able to see hooks when they are in chase so they can know to avoid dying there?
I don't like when the killer feels entitled to hooks. No one is entitled to entitled to getting a hook or making an escape.
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First thing:
"Let it base on intelligence and skill", lol running into a corner is the most intelligent and skillful play i've ever seen. There's a reason I bleed people out that make themself unhookable, it's just increadible annoying and doesn't have anything to do with playing better, it's simply a design-flaw (on some maps) or build that's realistically horrible but annoying.
Second thing:
wiggle-outs happen from time to time if you're at a bad place of the map, you are heavely mistaking if you think at every place on any map is a hook. The offering that increases the distance deletes hooks or distributs them terrible sometimes btw, so it can be pretty bad for the killer. While we're at it: wiggling is not meant for you to escape in general. It's meant for the killer that he can't drag you in the middle of the map too far or even in the basement, also it's exactly for team-plays or perks.
Third thing:
Palettes and hooks are not comparable - palettes are ressources, hooks are objects to progress the match. So palettes are more comparable to lockers for huntress as example, while hooks are more comparable to gens.
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The issue is that it's much easier and time efficient to sabotage a hook than to down a survivor. If sabotaging hooks were to provide you with value consistantly, the killer role would be pretty much pointless. Really, what would be the point of going through all the trouble to find a survivor, chase them, eventually get a down, work around possible flashlight and pallet saves just to be denied any progress because a survivor still managed to sabotage a hook?
There are so many things that can in theory prevent a killer from getting a hook, that each one has to be incredibly weak to account for the sheer amount. The game has to guarantee that a killer can progress even in the most extreme cases, if they play well enough (and vice versa). But when it comes to carrying a survivor you don't really have much room for skill expression as a killer. You either manage to get to a hook in time or you don't and since dropping a survivor is equivalent of not progressing (unless you start slugging everyone), there really isn't much wiggle room to play around with any of those mechanics.
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Idk which patch it was but petrified oak was shadow nerfed. A killer can even bring just a green one to cunter 4 petrified ones. I remember back befor 6.1 when a map like the gas station was bigger( the one with the garage and store ) my old swf we ran them and they would seperate the hooks so far at one point it was out of the maps travel boundaries lol.
I get all the extra hiok was added cause old boil over and rpd 3rd library, but now with that no longer being a thing and maps are way smaller now hooks being neck to neck is just annoying and some killer challenges involves carrying survivors to certain distance of a hook anyway which is what agi and irongrasp is for.
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Let me make this perfectly clear to you: the last time the developers made it harder to hook people, it almost destroyed the game and caused a literal killer strike.
Also you're on the record complaining about slugging and you want to make it harder to hook people. Whoooooooosh5 -
Your argument being if the devs don't spoon feed killers, they will react by slugging every survivor as a form of protest? As usual killer players will fight against anything that makes you work slightly harder for your 4k win streak.
Right now, hooks are placed way too close on most maps, making wiggling almost pointless. Unless a survivor is running multiple perks designed for it, escaping from a killer’s grasp is nearly impossible. The Petrified Oak add-on barely makes a difference, and perks like Boil Over or Breakout feel useless most of the time.
The problem is killers almost never fail to reach a hook. No matter where you get downed, there’s usually one just a few steps away. This makes the wiggle mechanic feel like a joke, it’s supposed to be a chance to escape, but in reality, it rarely ever happens.
Some people argue that hooks shouldn’t be compared to pallets because hooks “progress the match,” but that’s a weak argument. Survivors have to play smart with limited resources like pallets, so why should killers always have a hook guaranteed? If survivors can get stuck in dead zones with no pallets, there should also be areas where hooks are scarce to make killers think about where they down people.
I suggest hook placement should be adjusted so killers actually have to work to secure them, instead of always having one nearby. And wiggle progress should be slightly buffed so it’s not completely useless. The game should reward both sides for playing smart—not just give killers a free hook every time they down a survivor.
Post edited by Thesevenspirits on0 -
I think you should play this game more, especially spending some time as Killer, so that you know what you are actually talking about. It's not as easy as you make out.
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I suspect you're just trolling. And I would genuinely suggest you actually try playing killer for a while, knowing how they work/think can be a big benefit to your Survivor gameplay. I'm doing the same by playing more Survivor myself so I can understand them better as Killer. But I'm just going to say my piece, dump this wall of text that I can't help myself from making because I like info dumping too much, and ignore this thread afterwards.
No, the wiggle progress is not meant to a last chance to get away. It's just there to make it so the killer can't carry you around the map forever taking you out of the game entirely, or to make it so they HAVE to hook you at a maybe unideal hook location, as opposed to a Scourge or easily defendable Basement hook. If they changed it so that is was just a flat timer, no wiggle or input on the survivor's part needed, and when it ran out, the Entity itself would knock the survivor out of their arms, it would serve the exact same purpose.
And yes, if you make it difficult to impossible to make a hook, the objectively correct move is to start slugging, no 'protest' or 'spoon feeding' about it. Killers are players too, and like most players, they generally like to win their games, just like survivor players like winning theirs. If you sabotage right in front of them when they're about to hook, the killer isn't just going to go "Well gosh darn it, I have been so thoroughly outplayed by you having a toolbox/perk, guess I've got to let all that pressure I put in the chase go to waste and let them go scott free". They are going to drop the guy they were holding and start chasing the saboteur, so they can still apply some some amount of pressure on the survivors. It makes it so at least one of the other two survivors needs to stop doing gens in order to help the dropped survivor, and maybe even recover the guy who is being chased if they get downed too (Hooked or slugged).
Now, in your example of "Big hook deadzones so killers need to think about where they get down survivors". Uhh, Killers don't really have much of a choice on where they down survivors? Where the chase leads is almost ENTIRELY at the survivor's choice, and that is a genuine strategy for them, trying to lead the killer away from other survivors/generators to take some pressure off of those objectives. Now a killer can try to force the survivor in a certain direction, but it is still ultimately the Killer on the heels of the Survivor. If a Killer really wanted to down a survivor on the west side of the map, but the Survivor takes off to the east, there's not a damn thing the killer can do about it.
Making a big dead zone for hooks where any survivor can end up in "Home Free" space, where the killer can't hook them in anyway, then no one's going to want to play that. No strategy for Survivors on navigating the map, how to draw out the chase as long as possible to give your teammates time, knowing how to loop effectively. Just "Oh I've spotted the killer in the distance, I'm going to hide in Home Free for a bit until they either give up and leave, or try and fail to hook me because I KNOW they can't from Home Free".
We get it, you think killers are just AI video game monsters that you should be able to win against all the time, with as many second chances and cheese strategies as the devs will give you, but that ain't this game. It's another player on the other end who wants to win their game just as bad as you do. The game NEEDS to be balanced
(whether it currently is or not)such that both sides have a fair shot at winning. Designing the game so that it's as difficult as possible for one side to achieve their objective, while the other side has an easy time with theirs, will kill the game outright because no one wants to be the whipping boy that HAS to lose so someone else can feel good about themselves.Here's another possible comparison for you: Imagine if when you finish a generator, instead of it just being complete and that's that, you have to slowly drag that generator to the Exit gate for it to actually count, and if the killer catches you while you're doing that, then the generator is put back where it spawned, and you lose 50-70% progress on that generator and have to start all over again. ######### sucks right?
Seriously, play as a killer more. And not just one or two games, play a lot. Play until you start facing Survive With Friends groups, and P100 Solo Queue veterans, and see just how much an even slightly coordinated group of Survivors can get done vs a killer trying their absolute hardest to win. And note how it was even WORSE in the early days of the game (which admittedly I wasn't there for but I've heard the horror stories), with insta-blind flashlights, Brand New Parts taking generators from 0-to-100, genuinely infinite loops that the Killers COULD NEVER catch up to, Sabotages permanently removing hooks from the map. If we had today's experienced Survivors, with any one of those mechanics from back then much less all of them, the game would be dead in a matter of hours.Post edited by Siachi on1
