Maybe my most controversial take
Comments
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Yes, reminds me of when I played Skull Merchant before her nerf.
I had two games specifically where two survivors killed themselves on hook. Mind you, I was not tunneling, slugging, or anything toxic related to these survivors. At that point, (maybe because I play a ton of survivor) — I allowed the two remaining survivors to do the gens and leave.
I still remember it because the survivors shook their heads at me and vice versa. Yes, I could have killed them and got a 4k easily, but to me, it was not something that I felt proud of achieving and I wanted them to enjoy the rest of the game instead of me going out of my way to just end it. I know some survivors prefer that, but this was like middle of the game and they just proceeded to "go next".
The survivors seemed happy and was positive towards it (granted, I'm not on PC - they could have texted me ggez but I don't take taunting or anything like that seriously.) I just queue up for another game and move on. 😊
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Is he burning the house down?
Edit: he can take lessons from Real X9's Wispy.
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I got a really great Trapper one game with meta perks, another game I get a baby Trapper 0 prestige with yellow, green, and one purple perk. Poor Trapper rage quit and everything because he couldn't handle the pressure. It's wild how MMR is so widely one way or the other at times.
Sometimes I'll load into a game and it be a steamroll killer or survivor.
Other times, it'll be a situation where it's a neck and neck arms race and I actually enjoy these games! They're fun.
But regardless, MMR is so random at times it's almost comical.
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For every killer perk that got nerfed, I can name 3 survivor perks that got nerfed harder
Ou, I want to have fun with this one. Because you simply can't deliver…
So let's start light:- Corrupt Intervention
- Eruption
- NOED
- Ruin
- Pop
- STBFL
- Sloppy (whole mechanic)
- Tinkerer
Now please list me survivor perks that got nerfed more than those:
- Call of Brine
- Overcharge
- Ultimate Weapon
You are definetly cherry picking. Simply from the fact that you dared to mention 10 seconds buff for generator while ignoring every slowdown perk got nerfed hard. Also talking about gen tapping while ignoring 3-gen holding is near impossible unless survivors created it themselves.
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So, corrupt intervention and eruption got nerfed longer ago than you think, making my list quite easy:
Survivor perks that got nerfed more?
Dead Hard
Circle of Healing
Background Player
Made For This
Saboteur (entire mechanic btw)
Calm Spirit
Object of Obsession
Buckle Up
That's 3 for every one you mentioned and I could add more, but will put those below.
As for others.
Botany Knowledge (arguably could be considered nerfed more than Overcharge too, Overcharge really is a low bar)
Boil Over
Appraisal (remember you could rummage all 3 items from a single chest? Pepperidge farm remembers)
Blastmine (you used to be able to switch gens and effectively give every gen you wanted blastmine)
Adrenaline
Clairvoyance (remember you could use it to phase through killers and push them off the edge?)
Decisive Strike
Distortion (could arguably be above, but I only needed 9 for your 3)
Iron Will (another one that could be above)
Lucky Break (hey look, another one)
Self-Care(could be up too)
Spine Chill
WGLF
Need I go on? Because even Soul Guard got a bigger nerf than Tinkerer. Heck, Prove Thyself technically got a bigger nerf since it remained the same amount while gen times were significanlty increased enough to make it save less time(when at 80 charges, it was considered perfectly fine)
And Eruption is an ancient change, I think my most ancient change isnt even as ancient as Eruption is. That was Freddy 2.0 Ancient while everything I mentioned is post-Freddy2.01 -
"Gens have been increased by 10 seconds." So have hook stages. And gen regression perks have been nerfed, meanwhile gen speed ups has been pretty much untouched or even buffed.
"Mapsizes have been reduced." Eyrie of Crows has shrunk by less than 5% and it still is a very Survivor sided map. Greenvile square, which was added roughly a year ago, is one of the biggest maps in the game. Yeah, they shrink maps sometimes, but its just a very vague trend, not a design philosophy for healthier killer balance.
"Basekit generator kicking applies 5% damage and the gen keeps regressing untill the survivor fixed the 5%." And also gens have a regression limit. Kicking gens is still mostly a waste of time, due to the pressure you lose. The only reason you kick a gen is because you have no other way of stopping it from popping or because you have gen kick perks. And the limit made those worse.
"Chase related interactions are 10% shorter for killers, and survivors received a 10% nerf in boost duration." Bloodlust is a weak mechanic, inteded to prevent infinites against weaker killers and newer players. Any even remotely strong character has a better shot by using their power. This was a pity buff to bad players and characters, it doesn't really affect strong play much.
"DS has been nerfed to a point its rarely being used." Wrong. According to nightlight it has a 12.64% useage rate. This means you should on average see 1 DS every second game. However, if you go against organised squads the pickrate is way higher. Over my last 8 matches against SWFS I saw it on a total of 9 builds. And even if they don't use DS they use Off The Record or Dead Hard or have a teammate use Shoulder the Burden.
"Killers in general have been upped in strength." Not really Skull Merchant has been nerfed to the ground. Chucky has been nerfed pretty hard as well. While Dracula and Houndmaster are considered to be fairly strong killers, Unknown and Vecna are just mid. Of course they don't want to release a Trapper tier killer cause very few people would buy that, but its not like they add a new top 3 killer every patch.
"Less pallets on average. Less windows on average." I dont really see that. Yes, there is less than on release dbd, but that was ultra Survivor sided. Greenvile square has tons of pallets. New ormond has an avergae amount of loops and windows.
"More hooks per square meter of map so less time carrying survivors to hooks." Again, probably true if we compare to release DBD but not really. I had a Survivor go comp corner on new ormond and one sabotage was enough to not be able to reach any hook. They also buffed Sabotage overall, which means hooking is overally more difficult than it used to be. They literally had to add hooks to the Vecna map due to community feedback, because making yourself unhookable was too easy. Hell, going for unhookable is still very viable on Eyrie and Bad Ham.
"And sure, BT has been made basekit, sure, hook timers have been increased by 10 seconds. But how often does basekit BT actually trigger unless you tunnel? How often do survivors stay on hook for longer than 60 seconds?" The endurance is used like that all the time, Survivors let themself time with their unhook or come in while I am checking gens, I see them run to the hook and follow them, the unhooked Survivor uses basekit BT to take a hit.
You have also only looked at Killer Buffs. Let see what Survivors got over the past year or two:
Anti camp meter. 10 second longer hook stages. Buffed sabotage all around. Nerfed gen regression all around. Gen kick limit. Added some of the strongest perks ever (Shoulder the Burden, Finesse). Bots to replace afk teammates. Removed the unhook grab. Skull merchant nerfed to the ground because Survivors refused to understand her power. More clear UI.
Yes, killers had buffs too, but if we compare to how it was like 1 or 2 years ago, Survivors definitely got more.
So why do killers rely on slugging and tunneling and 4 regression perks now? Well, they nerfed Pain Res, nerfed Pop goes the Weasel, nerfed Grim Embrace, meanwhile they buffed flashbangs, slightly nerfed background player but gave it a compensation buff (that means it's still stronger than its release version), keep flashbangs in the game despite being bugged, and buffed sabotage.
Not only did they buff Survivor more than killer, they nerfed all the things that rewarded you for hooking different Survivors, or even hooking in the first place. If I had a penny for everytime a gen popped while I was carrying a Survivor to pain res, I'd have enough to buy another copy of dbd. Slugging enough eventually leads to the bleed out, meanwhile going for the hook can constantly be interrupted by Survivors.
So yeah. They made Killer, compared to Survivor at least, worse and especially punished killers for hooking. Thats why this is happening.
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Do you know how miserable it is to play Killer before these changes??
Before then, Survivors have so many tools that they can do all 5 totems, rummaging all chests, and still be able to 4 escapes EASILY against sweating Killers. It has reached to the point no one wants to play the Killer at all times.
Now everything’s been tuned down, but it doesn’t really make the game any easier for Killer, since Gen Time is still the same as before. The only difference is that Survivors now won’t have time to fool around, which is how it should be from the very beginning.
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The main issue that made it miserable to play killer is that you as a killer are generally more likely to face stronger survivors because there was a reliance on basekit mechanics that survivors needed perks to counter. While all survivor basekit mechanics have basekit mechanics to counter with (slugging, hooking, facing walls, brute forcing pallets).
And you meant to say SWF. SWF have had so many tools to do all totems, rummage all chests and still get 4 escapes against sweating killers (tho not easily, they would have to be sweating too).
Also, since those changes, average killrate has gone up from 52% to 60%. And average escaperates have gone down from 48% to 38%. It literally has gotten easier for killers, as gen times are increased and chase time reduced.
As for survivors having time to fool around, you kinda WANT them to fool around. Why else add chests in the game? Why else add totems in the game. Survivors SHOULD be able to sit on gens, killers SHOULD be the one keeping them off gens. If survivors are the ones who NEED to distract the killer so that they barely have time to do gens, then the game is dead. Many of the DBD clones were balanced in a way that survivors needed to distract the killer for them to be able to progress the game, because if they didnt, they would 100% lose. All those games have died. It's the killer who needs to be making those decisions, whether to chase a survivor or not.1 -
Poor Trapper rage quit and everything because he couldn't handle the pressure.
NOOOooo…! He just wants to be held! Where is he… I'll shape him up to be a SWF destroyer! #Trappersunite
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Haha, you're funny!
I felt bad, but the thing is you never know what you're going up against. That's truly how bad MMR is.
You think to yourself, "Hm, this might be a baby killer." and you take it a little easy, but then the random Yui goes down with the box later on in the game, and what you think is a baby killer is just someone who was having a rough start at the game.
Truly, they need to put some type of thing in place. I shouldn't be getting that type of player if all of my survivors are prestige 10+, highest is 20 with Dwight and I'm getting a prestige 0 - but MMR is a bit finicky, it's strange in my opinion.
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I argue this all the time. Like if you HAVE to tunnel or camp or slug then you are out of your skillset. Your strategies you've adopted to compensate have artificially boosted your MMR to make you rely on those tactics even more. Literally a self-fulfilling prophecy. The same goes for survivors who say you HAVE to be in a 4 man swf with meta perks and syringes.
Players need to learn to take the L (winning isn't everything) so they can naturally go to an MMR range that allows them to have fun in the game.
People use winning in video games as a major source of validation and in doing so ruin the enjoyment for them and everyone they play with. Hyper competitiveness is the worst.
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What do you think of comp and dbd as a whole? Has it affected the game since its conception? In a 'NET' positive or negative way? Thank you!
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sure thing my guy
extremely negative. As the comp community in DBD increased, so has the toxicity and negativity in the community. Comp ruins game communities. The moment someone adopts a "comp" mindset, fun is no longer the reason for playing or a priority. you begin to blame others for your failures and use tactics and behaviors that ruin the enjoyment of everyone else to feed your comp ego of "winning is everything". It turns a game that was originally designed as a party game, into a sweat fest that is a festering ground for anger and "us vs them". as for if it was a net positive for player population. Net negative undoubtable. August of 2018 had 20k more players than the game has now. The peak of DBD (outside of chapter releases) happens when 2v8 occurs, because of how casual, fun, and non-competitive it is. I know significantly more players who quit DBD because of how competitive it has gotten, than people who have stayed or got into for the competitiveness. In fact I have yet to play with or meet someone who has positive things to say about the DBD competitive community and playstyle.
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sorry but this is not really correct.
As the comp community in DBD increased, so has the toxicity and negativity in the community. Comp ruins game communities.
Comp ruins communities, how? Comp players are mostly scrimming in customs (and they are having much more fun than they'd have in pubs) and you will rarely come across them in pubs. Pubs are full of self-proclaimed casual players who want to win, but want to mask it however they can.
The moment someone adopts a "comp" mindset, fun is no longer the reason for playing or a priority. you begin to blame others for your failures and use tactics and behaviors that ruin the enjoyment of everyone else to feed your comp ego of "winning is everything".
sorry but again, this is absolutely mostly case in pubs. People always blame opponents for "not playing for fun" and devs for "game not being balanced" while trying to present themselves as casual players who play for fun (i won = i had fun; i lost = my opponent doesn't play for fun).
And in terms of fun and enjoyment in using strategies, i see it's very one sided argument inside casual dbd community.
It turns a game that was originally designed as a party game, into a sweat fest that is a festering ground for anger and "us vs them".
every game that can be played with a premade team is considered a party game, so can we please stop with "dbd party game" takes?
Also, us vs. them mentality is more present amongst self proclaimed casual players in pubs, while players who actually take deeper interest into improving will mostly blame themselves for losing (comp players in pubs most of times).
The peak of DBD (outside of chapter releases) happens when 2v8 occurs, because of how casual, fun, and non-competitive it is.
it happened when 2v8 occured because something that community was expecting for years finally came, you could KWF (Kill With Friends) and killer wasn't a solo role anymore in the mode, not because it's "casual and chaotic".
I know significantly more players who quit DBD because of how competitive it has gotten, than people who have stayed or got into for the competitiveness.
i know a lot of player who complain about dbd getting "more competitive" while bringing most powerful stuff imaginable along with map offerings to give them as much of an upper hand as possible. Casual dbd is not about pure competitiveness, it's about trying to rely on stuff game gives you to rely more on autopilot for winning than to actually play the game.
In fact I have yet to play with or meet someone who has positive things to say about the DBD competitive community and playstyle.
because people dislike reliability on skill rather than stuff game gives to you. Omg, your favorite op/crutch stuff is banned, how are you gonna win then!!!
But literally, people are mad at comp community more about the fact that they are giving the game next dimension of balance (and are having great fun in that environment) than about anything else. I have met many comp players, and many of them have unironically told me they enjoy playing customs/scrims far more than pubs.
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I would actually argue the opposite in general, I dont think comp is the issue. Comp has always been a (small) part of DBD. My issue is that MMR being the main reason for matchmaking has made people more comp because they feel they HAVE to be comp. And if they dont play comp, they lose more often than they win. And while I am 100% standing with the "you've relied on methods that arent really an expression of skill" like slugging and tunnelling at 5 gens, therefor they will always be facing opponents that are better than them skill-wise and forces them to rely even harder on methods that dont express skill. I am also standing with the community not being given much of a different option.
Like, we dont know what our MMR is. We dont know how long it takes for MMR to degrade (like, lets say I have accidentally boosted myself to 2000, but skill-wise, my MMR is closer to 1600. With those changes implemented, how many games will need to be lost for me to reach that? How long do I not have to play killer or survivor to get into that range? If its -10 per month of not playing and -5 per game, I need to have an insane amount of losses).
I almost feel like if the changes do get pushed through, players in general should be given to, just this once, lower their MMR by 10-25%. Or have players fill in a survey where if they state they feel like they are forced to slug and tunnel as killer, and/or feel like they need to rely on toolboxes with BNP, their MMR gets lowered by 15% without their knowledge (which, I personally would disagree with, but whatever reason there is to keep MMR hidden, then this should be hidden too). It's just going to give players an easier time to adjust and stop relying on methods they dont enjoy using while winning the majority of their games. Because killers who slug and tunnel dont feel like they won when they did win, and survivors who escape through sweating dont feel like they won either.
And maybe, just maybe, add a statistic on how often they actually win games, and what the average winrate is at their MMR. Because if Trapper wins 15% of games at 1500 MMR, and I win 20% of games at 1500 MMR as Trapper, then I have information that despite losing 80% of my games, I still do better than the average Trapper.
We, as players, need feedback. Because right now the only feedback is "did I win or did I lose?", which means that even if you win 95% of your games, you're not gonna care because of the 5% you lost and those felt like unfair losses, where all the wins felt deserved. But if you know that, relative to other players in your bracket, they win 80% of games where you win 95% of games, you'd feel a lot better about games you lose, and a lot of the games you win no longer feel as deserved since you "clearly" are outperforming in your bracket.1 -
I think pretty similarly with the rest, but have mixed feelings on putting up comparison information because it might increase competitive natures further, for every 1 person it gives a peace of mind to it might cause 5 others to push themselves in ways that will make the game not feel fun anymore.
Essentially making it an even more competitive game than it is now. Ergo even less people are coming back for things now. While I understand that a lot of people have highly competitive natures I think it would place a huge self expectation on people that they ultimately don’t even end up liking.
Gestures around, because people can’t even see their mmr now. The human ego is fragile and honestly I think a lot of people live by some sort of mentality that doesn’t actually align with what they want, because they can’t even give their self a break to go “it’s okay to take time to learn, I don’t have to be the best while I learn” and when you’re not giving yourself a break, you’re not giving others a break either. So I completely understand why they would hide information, it honestly just protects people from well them, and their inner me.
I was playing in a duo yesterday and my friend, she asked me “what do you think about chucky?” And I was like I would love to tell you but they won’t engage in chase long enough for me to get any real information. They get one hook and basically capitalize off that and abandon as soon as the notification goes off. I legitimately can’t get them to engage longer than 10-15 seconds, they refuse to play loops. I’ve faced like 3 recently.So I’d love to give feedback(I’m probably an average player, not bad, but not absolutely amazing either, I have some things to work on and I’m not ashamed to admit that or ask for help, 2000 hours and I’m still learning new things) so the little guy is probably being held back off tunneling Strats alone, but I can’t give feedback because they refuse to try in any real meaningful way that would allow me to. I guess what I’m trying to say is maybe it’s for the best, maybe that chucky would realize they just need to get better, maybe it would just make people gen rush and go for gold even harder, lead to more slugging and tunneling. Sometimes people need to be saved from their self. Because if you can’t take a look at yourself when an invisible number is in play and you’re no longer having fun, and go “maybe I’m out of my league” let me fix this, imagine if people could see.
What do you think from receiving this different perspective?
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wow what about all the nerfs to all the killers over the years also survivor skill getting better it's amazing how you can just cherry pick like that
like all the gen regression nerfs or gen kick limit or the upcoming knockout change and the anti slugging changes and probably removal in the 2nd phase
it's like you haven't played high mmr killer in your life and haven't figured out that if survivors know how to play the game is really easy to will nice if the person who gets chased and knows how to loop and the team rushes gens it's an auto lose for killer and that's not even mentioning ds head on shoulder otr or any other perks that shift it more in the survivors favor
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Killers have, on average, recieved more buffs than nerfs.
Survivors have, on average, recieved many more nerfs than buffs.
Also, slugging isnt gonna be removed, but a lot of basekit changes will happen because slugging is the only basekit mechanic that doesnt have basekit counterplay. Like, its effectively going back to 2016 DBD and finding out you cannot damage generators. Imagine that instead of adding basekit damaging gens, they required you to use a perk to damage gens otherwise they wont regress. Sounds fun right? Ofcourse not. And slugging is the most boring gameplay mechanic survivors face. It needed a rework back in 2021.
Also wanna cherry pick?
Dead Hard, MFT, Killers getting 10% time reduction in ALL actions basekit. Survivors lose 10% in speedboost durations. Endurance got reworked to no longer stack (it was hard to trigger before the DH rework, but you could use Styptic after BT and endure the hit). Medkits and healing getting a MASSIVE nerf. Boons only having recieved nerfs ever since their introduction, and only 1 buff to Circle of Healing to make it somewhat viable after all the nerfs. Before Shoulder The Burden, the last perk that was worth being Meta was MFT with Gabriel. That's 2 years before a NEW perk shook up survivor meta a bit. Killers get at least 2 per year that heavily shake up the meta (From last anniversary to now: Weave Attunement, Jagged compass for mobility killers, Languid Touch is used by a lot of killers since it effectively shuts down Exhaustion perks, each making certain builds and killers a lot more viable).
Like, its like you dont pay attention to changes. And if the person who gets chased knows how to loop better than the killer, then the killer deserves to lose for refusing to let that survivor go.
As for the perks you mentioned. DS is rarely ran, and is only ran because killers tunnel, a non-issue if you dont tunnel. Same for OTR, only an issue if you tunnel. Shoulder the Burden literally gives exposed for 60 seconds. So not only do you have a survivor spreading the hooks, you have a survivor who is now about to be dead on hook. And im not even going to talk about Head-On. It takes 2.8 seconds to charge up, you can easily avoid it and only in a SWF might you have issues with it, but then just bait and hit.
And I play killer too, its just that when I play killer, I barely see issues. I dont tunnel unless I need to at 3-2 gens remaining, I barely run gen regression and gain my pressure from hooking survivors closer to objectives I want to defend rather than the nearest hook possible and only slug when I am not given the option to hook. I'm getting 2.9 kills on average with B and C tier killers more than consistently enough to know my MMR is high, especially since I face tournament squads every once in a while(aka, actual tournament players) where non-high mmr killers dont face tournament squads. I just have very little complaints towards current survivor meta. I still have them and they are worth complaining about.
Like the Syringe should heal based on the leftover charges in the medkit instead of just healing the survivor at the cost of 1 charge.
But those issues are minor compared to the tunnel and slugging issues. Gen regression meta alone is enough to not be forced to tunnel, yet people do, because (and this isnt an insult, but like you) have been boosted by basekit mechanics that are not a significant expression of skill.0
