General Discussions
General Discussions
The "meta" isn't popular because it is "the best" way to play.
I see the same perks run over and over on both sides. You got mediocre killer mains always running Pop, Pain Res, Grim Embrace and Corrupt Intervention, for example. Zzzzzz…boring…and predictable as hell. Only good against casuals. Any high level survivor sees this kind of build so much that they will easily counter it because they see it coming a mile away. But also on survivor side you see the same builds being used over and over to counter the killer meta. And some people assume it's because they're "the best", but that's not true.
What is really going on is a phenomenon I will call the meta hivemind. That is, you have a small group of popular streamers or comp scene players that use certain perks and strategies, and then these get regurgitated by the casual hivemind. Most players are very average, and when they want to learn, they simply do a search for a streamer to see what they do. They imitate. And that works…to an extent.
The problem with this approach, is that you're always just a cheap imitation. A carbon copy that is extremely predictable because you behave like almost everyone else. To really be exceptional, you must not follow the "meta" but create the new meta. And the only way to do that is to learn first-hand. You play the game and learn constantly, and in doing so you discover new synergies between perks and playstyles and you play in a way that no one else plays. And that is what is actually hard to counter, because the opponent won't expect it. The carbon copy builds are only hard for average players to counter because they lack basic game knowledge and mechanical skill. But these low skill cheese tactics on either killer or survivor side will leave you stuck at the intermediate level when you inevitably run into a brick wall.
So then the meta is not a static entity but instead always in flux. That is because when you develop a certain approach which is unexpected and therefore effective, eventually your opponent will learn what you are doing, and then counter it. And then you learn to counter the counter, and so on. So the meta continues to evolve as players learn from one another. So to remain at the forefront, one must always be in a state of learning, the learning is never complete, and this learning must be in the form of first-hand experience through interacting with the game itself. This way you will discover playstyles that no one else has discovered. You will make plays that no one else makes. And so you catch the opponent off guard. You are spontaneous, in other words. This is when the magic happens.
But…if you then say "aha! I've finally figured it out! Now I know the best way to win!". Now you have already lost the magic. Because now you are a mere carbon copy of your prior self. And this is all too easy for the opponent to predict.
I have given you the key, but you alone must unlock the hatch.
Comments
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What you have described is what I consider the last major jump in skill a player can experience in public matches.
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It is the best way to play. I never get tired of Pain Res, Grim Embrace, Pop & No Where to Hide every other game. sarcasm
These meta (at least for Killer in this example) are far exasperated by so many content creators doing winstreaks with 4 slowdown every match.
I apologize if my post is similar I wrote it out before I read OP thread (title first lol).
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While I understand where you are coming from, I largely think that this is wishful thinking.
That might be the case for other games, but not DBD. The game is not that flexible.
Certain perks and perk combinations for both sides are objectively bad.
Survivor doesn't even require perks, you can win without any perks to begin with. Perks like Finesse become a no-brainer because in the right hands they are literally uncountable. Syringes are uncounterable for M1 killers, therefore I pick the syringe over a flashlight.
Flashlight can be countered in many ways, even by M1 killers. Syringe is very difficult or even impossible to counter in certain situations. Especially in soloQ you do not have much wiggle room with your perk selections. Can you do goofy stuff? Absolutely, but it will be far from effective.
This game is far from any sort of balance and certain things can absolutely be exploited to the point of unfairness.
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Actually haven't faced the meta not like in weeks but I don't see it as often saw some people bring pop but that was it mixed with Dead lock or a hex perk. So most likely the meta is still there but some players are trying new things since I mean once survivors know the meta they'll just not touch a gen when someone is being carried as no notification is made.
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In real life snowboarding many years ago the 1440 rotation was the revolutionary trick that blew the judges mind and received a top score. The 2340 spin that a snowboarder landed in the 2025 Big Air competition was considered only possible in video games back then. It took someone that was willing to push the boundaries of their sport. What you call wishful thinking, I call an open mind. There is no spoon because the object is the subject. Change the way you look at the game and the game you look at changes.
Your comparison between flashlights and syringes is highly debatable but I won't go deep into that. The focus of my post is to point out the vast potential for unique and effective playstyles that are simply waiting to be discovered by anyone willing to experiment for themselves. Sure, running straight at the killer the entire match is probably a reliable way to get yourself killed (hey, who knows, some killers might spare you), but that doesn't mean there aren't breakthroughs to be had which will reshape the currently trending meta.
I believe that the niche comp scene and relatively small group of popular streamers for this game have only scratched the surface of what is possible with sufficient ingenuity.
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Well at this point we'll have to define what the goal of any of this is.
DBD isn't that complex, there is a definite finite set of states. Sure the possible perk combinations are ridiculous in number, but the vast majority of them do nothing. Like I said, you can play survivor on the highest level without using any perks, and you'll see the finite possibilities and how far perks can take you.
Also there is a big difference between Killer, SoloQ Survivor and SWF.
Like I've said you can win with goofy builds, you can win without any build at all or you bring perks/items/addons that alter the underlying fundamentals in a way that are mathematically already more beneficial than certain other combinations.
If you want to go for near infinite chases versus an M1 killer I doubt anything can beat Sprintburst + Vigil + Fixated + Syringe.
Do you want to make a 4.4m/s killer think you're cheating? Play Hope + MFT and keep yourself in deep wound in the endgame. Congratz, you are now equal speed with the killer. Combined with fixated and smart play you can keep him out of chase and become effectively — literally — uncatchable.
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At one point probably after they nerfed COB/Eruption/Overcharge, it felt like there was a lot more variety in builds on the survivor side especially, that were viable.
Lately though, it feels like that variety has narrowed drastically. I play survivor and I play against nothing but Blight, Billy and Nurse who seems back on the menu after not seeing her much recently. The Blights and Billy's have Pain Res, Grim Embrace, Dead Mans Switch and another tracking perk without fail.
Play killer and it's nothing but Syringes, Styptics, Flashlights, Flashbangs and every second chance perk going.
It's just a vicious circle. One breeds the other. If you don't bring these things, you have a way greater chance of losing. I hate playing meta and therefore I lose a lot of games nowadays! Has gradually happened over time in every PvP game I've played and it'll only get worse until all the casual and new players completely dry up. Feels like we are getting there already.
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Just wait for all the new FNAF fans getting curbstombed by smurfs. That's gonna be one hell of a chapter.
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I don't know how any new players could come into the game now just with the shear number of things they need to learn and how many thousands of hours it takes to become even just mediocre at the game.
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They will come and they will not stick around, I guarantee you that. The new player experience is absolute trash and there's also plenty of people who will use that opportunity to gank the ever living ######### out of new players.
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"Complexity" is an abstraction. Whether something is simple or complex, is a matter of how you analyze it. It is the analysis which makes something complicated by dividing the world into objects of thought. Genius in any field is a matter of taking apparently complex things and making them as simple as possible, which is why the greats in any field make it look easy. My perspective is heavily influenced by the Eastern approach to martial arts, so it is pretty counter-intuitive to the Western style of thought which is largely based on a tradition of scientific analysis (a min/max gamer who is carefully calculating all the variables at play is an example of the Western mentality).
In Bushido, there is this idea that the warrior must free his mind from preconceptions so that he can be prepared for an ambush from any angle. The issue with the Western approach to discipline via intellectual analysis and structured training, is that it is too slow and cumbersome. If you think about what to do while being ambushed, you are already too late, the killer has hit you. There is an art of spontaneity in Eastern martial arts whereby one responds intelligently to a situation without premeditation. This clear awareness is the well from which unpredictable patterns of behavior emerge. A controlled accident. The one being ambushed in this case responds instantaneously without any forethought about what the opponent is doing. Still, this response is not stupid, but remarkably witty. This explains why impressive plays in Dead by Daylight evoke laughter from the player/audience. Their mind is "blown", or unconditioned.
This is highly applicable to a game like Dead by Daylight because survivors are continuously being ambushed and aggressively hunted down by a killer. Even if you put aside perks and items altogether, there are an infinite amount of possibilities to explore within the finite parameters of the game code. For example, survivors have many potential paths to choose from in any given moment and mind-gaming can have a great deal of nuance. While some may be inclined to believe that mind-gaming is simply a matter of luck, of guesswork, from an Eastern perspective there is actually an underlying intelligence which is at work, but which is difficult or impossible to put into words.
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Now here this touches on something interesting. Which is that what you are describing is basically the relationship of Yin and Yang, killer and survivor are interdependent. Any change on one side affects the other. Now while there are certain styles of play which are popular and seem generally effective, I always remain open to exceptions to the rule, anomalies.
For example, this is most evident with cheaters that exploit the game code to gain an absurd advantage. They find loopholes in the programming. But even at the level of a legit player, I believe exceptions to the rule (a.k.a. "the meta") can be found and exploited. BHVR can never account for every possibility because there are simply too many variables to consider at once. Imbalances always slip through the cracks in spite of their best efforts. This is analogous to Godel's theorem of incompleteness.
What keeps me coming back as a Solo Q main, in spite of it essentially being Misery Mode (The Long Dark reference), is that although this is a very difficult puzzle to solve, I do believe there are potential solutions. There is the potential of overcoming the odds in spite of the situation all too often being dire. This can make Solo Q gameplay both highly frustrating, yet at times exhilarating. With the other survivors losing hope or betraying you so frequently, you are often put in situations where you basically have to CS GO clutch the match in order to escape. And many times this clutch may fail, but when it succeeds, it is very rewarding.
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In Zen tradition there is what they call "beginner's mind". That is, linear time is an illusion, and so it is called the "sudden school". It is this tradition which inspired the way of the Samurai. From this perspective, mastery is not attained gradually over time, as is generally believed in the West (i.e. 10K hours rule), rather, the spontaneous intelligence acts instantly without any rehearsal or preparation. This phenomenon is most easily observed in great artists or comedians that improvise genius lyrics or jokes on a moment's whim. So while most people may take a very long time to "get good" at the game, it is arguable that the reason for this is that their minds are so conditioned by culture, that it actually inhibits their mastery until they finally learn to let go. This is why the actual first-person experience of mastery of any skill, always has this sense of effortless which goes with it.
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I'm gonna be honest, while I am familiar with what you are talking about, I'm going to dismiss it for the same reason you lean into it.
But I will address
For example, survivors have many potential paths to choose from in any given moment and mind-gaming can have a great deal of nuance.
Which is certainly true. No perks required, start without them. You're absolutely right and I'll tell you that the majority of people have a clear lack of mastery of the fundamentals.
You're greatly mistaken if you believe that there aren't people who do take into consideration what you are talking about.
But you don't see them. They have no name and they disappear as fast as they appeared. The majority can't learn it, it's not possible by nature.
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If you don't boost yourself with meta items, a 4 man SWF every round with comms, and your own meta perks, you will rarely see Killers that only run all full meta on Nurse and Blight. 95% of people just don't have this problem.
Beware the cinder in your own eye before the mote in your neighbor's, my friend.0
