I hope I dont have you in my team then, because people who run around for 80 seconds with their OTR active instead of progressing the game are just helping the Killer.

This is why i think that if you SAVE a survivor, it should count as one. For example, if you flashlight save someone, or if you pallet stun to save another survivor, you obviously are not being tunneled, and should be fair game at that point.

As others have already said though, protection hits are harder because it would disable the intended functionality too easily.

What should happen i think is that endurance at least, should not work like it does now, it should disable collision so you can walk through them. That would be a win/win i think, because then it can't be abused to make it easier to tunnel a survivor, and also it disables using these things "offensively" against the killer.

That tells me everything I need to know, thanks! There is a reason why advanced teams always harass his traps.

On top of that: Removing a bear Trap for feee, Removing condemned for free, cleansing uroborous for free, cleansing contamination for free, STOPPING A CHAIN HUNT FOR FREE, removing drones for free, kicking victor for free.

Plenty of powerful things to counter killers and their powers that you have to do anyways but now you can do it with 3 health states. On TOP of iron will and distortion all rolled into a single perk.

You really must not play that often, which is fine. But still making such a strong statement without really knowing about it is kind of strange.

Intentional bodyblocking should count as a conspicuous action. If we're getting AI in DBD to figure out if a survivor is purposely trying to Go Next, then we can also have AI to determine if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking for another survivor.

For example, a killer hitting a survivor 0.2 seconds after being unhooked wouldn't be considered intentional bodyblocking. But if the killer is clearly chasing someone, and a recently unhooked survivor is clearly trying to get between the killer and their teammate, then it should count as a conspicuous action, because if a survivor is intentionally bodyblocking, then they aren't being tunneled.

There are far too many variables to determine if someone is intentionally bodyblocking or not, at least from a game logic standpoint.

The Go Next Prevention will likely just be "is the Survivor trying to 4% and then immediately fail struggle skill checks" or "are they AFK and then immediately trying to fail struggle skill checks" etc. The logic there is a lot more binary, and the system will likely have leniency anyway.

One example: How would the system act if a Survivor accidentally (or deliberately) leads a chase to a recently unhooked Survivor with Decisive Strike, and they are then downed? The Survivor was in close proximity to a Chase, and got between the killer and their teammate and took a hit. For all intents and purposes, that'd look like an intentional bodyblock to an algorithm.

Trying to detect something like this wouldn't be consistent. Inaccuracy in a system such as this would be bad design, as you'd have the anti-tunnel perks gated behind the whim of a system that'd be rife with false positives and negatives. It'd be confusing for both Survivor and Killer alike.

The Go Next prevention can afford to be a little lenient and let people off the hook accidentally every now and then (just as long as we don't start getting false positives), however core gameplay rules, such as what counts as a Conspicuous Action have to be consistent every time.

Yes it is 3 health states if you fully heal. And I’m the one who doesn’t understand game mechanics huh? We have been talking about OTR since the first comment where I mentioned it, maybe pay attention?

It’s free, you’re in no danger. No punishment for doing it. Killers are always in a time deficit so it’s not that big of a deal and it hurts some killer more than others.

It doesn’t prevent tunneling but certainly makes it harder, doesn’t it?

I think this will be very hard to implement in the game, specially if you consider we could have false positives and false negatives. The most easy solution i see is to remove collision from survivors after they are unhooked, as long as they have Endurance effects or are with Decisive active or any other anti-tunnel perks active. This way we could prevent people using their anti-tunnel perks offensive as we could prevent some killers from holding the survivor while their basekit BT runs out.

Yes it is 3 health states if you fully heal.

That's not a part of the perk. If the killer isn't tunneling, then the survivors healing up is two people not on gens.

You seem to just be complaining that survivors aren't standing around AFK.

Look, the basic fundamental aspect of this game is that survivors are reacting to the killer's actions and power. That means the killer gives the survivors something to do, because otherwise they just do gens and leave.

So literally anything, including being chased, hooked, downed, unhooking, healing, interacting with the killer or the killers power, even going for saves... Is all because the killer did something (or even base kit power) they have to respond to. It's not free, all of that takes people off of gens. That's the point.

You seem to not be even capable of looking at anything from a survivor standpoint, and your mindset is purely biased toward the killer here.

It doesn’t prevent tunneling but certainly makes it harder, doesn’t it?

By this logic, maps should just be the basement and nothing else, since anything other than an empty field "slows down tunneling". Nothing stops tunneling.

This isn't a blocked gen, broken hook, or lightborn where is physically impossible to do something. It's a casual suggestion to not tunnel. And instead of taking that suggestion, you and nearly every killer not only ignores it completely, but comes here to complain that it even exists.

I'm so sorry you hit a speed bump while running that survivor over, that must be awful for you. /s

OTR actually will work if you get healed, get chased, get injured, then get hit again, you get endurance. And it lasts 80 seconds. So often good survivors will actually use it "offensively" forcing you to basically hit them 3 times before you can go after your intended target.

You’re making a whole bunch of points that are completely irrelevant to the discussion.

All I'm talking about is how the game functions. I'm sorry you think that's irrelevant, but that just proves my point.

And a whole lot of strawmans.

There's no straw man here, it's called argument ad absurdum. I'm taking your complaint to it's logical conclusion and showing why it's ridiculous. Saying "it slows down tunneling" is completely meaningless since pallets also do that.

You simply aren't giving any kind of reasonable basis for your position, but that's not my fault.

Even if you don’t utilize the three health states you get you get 2 other perks on top of that for almost 3 minutes.

1. It's 80 seconds. Not even a full gen, let alone 3 minutes. Please don't get the numbers wrong (hilariously wrong) while trying to tell me how I don't understand the game.
2. Even if they use the full 80 seconds, they aren't on gens for that time. If they aren't being chased either, then congratulations, you've gotten someone to do effectively nothing instead of progressing the game, while chasing someone else. You've discovered map pressure. Good job.

Look, I know forums math isn't people's strong suit in any way, but

You can't argue health states as one hook (injured+endurance) or as you argued it (healed to full+injured+endurance) then switch it to counting for the entire match when it suits you.

At least be consistent. Since we've been talking about one unhook this whole time, with injured and endurance being the two health states it's 80 seconds. Otherwise you're either just being disingenuous or can't count health states for the entire match. I'm guessing it's the disingenuous one.

ETA: since you seem to claim you switched from one hook to two in mid sentence this confusion is you getting it wrong, not me reading it wrong. Here's what you wrote:

Even if you don’t utilize the three health states you get you get 2 other perks on top of that for almost 3 minutes.

The only reason you're stretching this is because you want the numbers to look as bad as you possibly can.

And my point still stands, regardless, that if the survivors perk is making them not progress the game voluntarily then on both hooks is even better for the killer. If the person wasted 80 seconds doing nothing the first time and then decided to further do nothing again, that's more slowdown than any killer perk has ever given.

Depending on the situation. You kinda are if you're giving your teammate more time in chase that equates to more time on gens.

Lmao you are nitpicking so bad right now it’s crazy. Even with how much reaching and grasping going on right now the point still stands. 3 health states, 3 perks in one = Overpowered.

No, you don't need to identify every single scenario. BHVR just needs to identify some of the scenarios, count them as conspicuous actions, and they can leave the super rare exceptions alone. Also, it doesn't need to be 100% perfect. If a few scenarios go through that hurt DS or OTR, that's fine, because it's overall healthier to get rid of the perks being used offensively, when they are supposed to be anti-tunnel perks.

And perks get nerfed all the time, so it's fine if DS and OTR change in strength. There's zero requirement that those perks must stay at 100% efficiency for anti-tunnel.

If the killer tried to hit them with an attack, will it hurt them?