ik exactly what you said and it was still some absolute poopoo buttshit you typed up

You can't design slow methodical killers in a game that actively discourages teamwork and communication by design, and also matches players by skill in a very broad manner. Beyond that, trap killers absolutely kill the pacing of trials when they play around their traps. The vast majority of players don't want a 20 minute slog of game in an unranked queue.

Every single time BHVR creates a macro style killer, survivors complain until it gets reworked or nerfed to uselessness.

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers like blight and billy who have high mobilitiy

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who are anti loop, like dracula, and houndmaster.

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who give information, like doctor, and old freddy.

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who thrive on hit and run, like legion, and wraith.

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain about killers who are good at slugging, like singularity.

Meanwhile, survivors also continue to complain…. and it goes on.

My question is always, what killers DO YOU FIND FUN TO PLAY AGAINST. Because reading this forums, and reddit, and people's reactions in game, there is no killer that is fun to play against.

I would understand your point, but the difference is i also see people say "i like pizza" with relative frequency. Sure SOME people don't like pizza, but i get the impression that MOST probably do.

In DBDs case though, i very rarely see someone say "i like going against [insert killer]"

Thats your subjective world. Not reality

Liking something and the frequency you see it doesnt mean thats true for everyone. Dont know why I have to explain that one.

The fitness crowd for example doesnt "like pizza" for varrying reasons. So theres several hundred million people that go against your theory there

Nutritionists, doctors, people with GERD etc…

Okay better example. Which might help you understand better.

Lets following your logi

Look at the comment I originally responded to for you. How many dislikes how many likes?

So is your statement true or false or is it subjective?

Sure, there are going to be a decent number of surv players who are going to take issue with any killer who doesn't just roll over for them. That's just a given. But I think once you get past that noise, I think most people have killers that they enjoy facing.

But the level of disdain for SM is/was pretty unprecedented. And not just from surv mains, either. Speaking for myself, as someone who plays both sides extensively and sees the value in just about every killer, I almost never took anything positive from a SM match. Just a tedious experience, usually compounded by teammates going next.

She is less popular than pineapple pizza in Italy.

I think the SM situation is several steps beyond the typical level of hate relatively unique killers get, and that's why we're seeing this degree of overhaul.

She just wasn't going to work. And like Pulsar, I applaud BHVRs willingness to essentially delete and replace a killer power, even if I don't love the changes themselves. I'd argue it's something that should have been done with at least a couple of others, and I didn't think they had the fortitude to do it. But I also think this was the case that makes the most sense; very few SM mains, and historically unpopular amongst those who aren't SM mains.

Best case, the rebuild is successful and she sees some level of acceptance and more people play her. Worst case, she ends up essentially like the Twins, all but forgotten. Probably the same fate that awaited had they done nothing. They're just trying to salvage something here.

It's a tough pill for players who sank a lot of time and effort into her, and I feel for them. But it's a numbers game.

Are we gonna address that most of that 70% comes from survivors giving up on hook once they realize its her they're playing against?

Survivors like going against a killer that they can loop for 5 gens like Pig

Yeah saying killer is easier is certainly a take. The basis of his argument is just stats that BHVR selectively chooses to release.

When you play killer, you have to manage 4 different survivors. You have to plan out what gens to defend, remember what perks all the survivors have, remember who's been hooked, remember which survivor is your next token for your perks, you have to quickly find your next chase, perform mechanically well with your killer in chase, stay calm and don't get tilted if you run into juicer mcwallhacker, and know when to abandon chase, understand when the survivor is leading you to a bad area of the map etc etc.

When you play survivor you sit on a gen and hold 1 button. If you're on comms with your friends, you can just zone out and not even pay attention until your buddy tells you the killer is coming your way. You can equip Windows of Opportunity to tell you where to go at all times so you don't even have to plan or think about your chase route. You don't have to remember what perks the killer has because the game literally tells you whenever a killer perk is active. Watch any killer streamer in a tough match and see how much they have to think about especially if they're struggling. You see them trying their hardest, getting stressed out and then you watch the survivor PoV and they're like super chill just joking around having fun chilling out while the killer is sweating his dick off

Survivor is so much easier to play and chill out on that it's not even close

you have every right to not enjoy going up against a killer, but you have no right to demand that the killer be changed to make playing against it more fun.

Sure you do. If you are a player of the game you have every right to say 'I'd enjoy this product more if X was changed' or even 'I'll stop using this product unless X is changed'.

You have the right to enjoy whatever, you also have the right to express that opinion, and every right to continue or not to use the product. You just don't have a right to consider your personal view any more important than anyone else.

as a survivor, it's your job to survive, whatever gets thrown at you. if you queue up, you do it knowing that whatever is about to happen is going to try to kill you.

If they introduced a killer whose only power was that survivors needed to listen to Baby Shark on repeat in order to survive, survivors would be perfectly justified in wanting it changed.,

There's no inherent right for anything to exist in the game on either side. It actions on BHVR's part to try and navigate the difficult seas of video game design and find the right path to appeal to enough players to keep the game viable (which they have been remarkably successful at).

since everyone is correct in that there is no universally enjoyed killer, why does it make sense to see bhvr trying to create a universally enjoyed killer?

This is kind of the Nirvana Fallacy. No solution will ever be perfect, therefore, why try? Yes, everyone has their own issues with the game that are not shared by the community at large. However, there are issues for which a significant portion of the player base shares an opinion and it is completely logical to try and address those larger issues, even if the solution will not totally resolve all complaints.

BHVR has that data and it really looks like there is a substantial amount of Skull Merchant dislike.

and even besides all of THAT, her pickrate was not big enough for anyone to have been concerned about seeing her more than once a month. so literally why does it matter how much you like playing against her when she was already a niche pick in the first place?

If the occasions of playing against her at that rare, but the reaction is still so viscerally strong, all the more reason to change her.

im not saying you have to like vegetables, but you do have to eat them.

Except this is a video game. It's not something players have to do at all. They do it because its fun, if they didn't have fun, they wouldn't do it (which would be bad for BHVR and the rest of the players).

I don't really see it as growth honestly. They admit they are wrong all the time, it's just that they repeat it again anyway.

While this is overall a net positive for the community, it still has the same issue they made with the Trickster rework where they remove everything those who actually play the character enjoyed. They went back on that and admitted they were wrong… and then did it again anyway with Skull Merchant… ironically on the exact same day they released a message talking about their previous mistake with Trickster. And the same thing they did with OG Freddy as well, which is a mistake they made years ago and are again repeating it.

I absolutely hate Skull Merchant too, but this does seem like a slap in the face to those who actually like her.

The fact that this post was downvoted is WILD.

“I’m not going to argue with you, but I will insult you.”

”That isn’t a discussion. That’s not why we’re here.”

5 players on the internet: 👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻👎🏻

Self-Care was not actually a big deal for old Freddy. In fact it was actually a boon, because they just waste time doing nothing but healing (and you knew where they were doing this and that they were not doing gens) and as soon as they wake up you just instantly put them back to sleep again, which with range addons you could do from nearly 40 metres away, and then just go back to picking off those who are sticking on gens. The people that think Self-Care was a counter to Freddy are the ones that just played him like a cruddy Wraith and would stack block addons to reduce the sleep time rather than increasing their power range.


I do agree that other than the teleport, the rework did make him feel less thematic. I wish they kept the invisibility at the very least, and the dreamworld feels almost identical to being awake now.

What I am saying is is that there was no mid-chase if one played like this because you simply wouldn't commit to chasing people.

Dream projection with range addons was the best tracking tool in the game (because it locked on through walls revealing their location even if you needed LOS to actually sleep them, so you just walked around sweeping it horizontally until you locked on to someone), the only time wasted was whatever time it took to get LOS to sleep them, but most survivors can't prevent that because you know, Freddy was invisible and not close enough to hear the lullaby.

Eventually through attrition you would wittle down their resources until they were basically done. Trust me, as someone that nearly exclusively played old Freddy, self-care was not an issue. But I agree, this is now going off topic, so I will stop discussing this now.

It could be anecodtal, but when i play 10 games in day, probably half of them have someone doing a tome challenge, throwing the game, and/or giving up as soon as possible.

Yea the devs came out and said it wasnt the case for SM as too many people were repeating it in argumentation.
Crazy that people still think they can get away with it today, its been disproven.


Id put it in the 30-40 range of all my soloQ matches someone doing something like this.

With "Throwing the game" having way too many layers to it.