http://dbd.game/killswitch
What do you think about these Sadako ideas?
Chase/flicker buffs
- While demanifested, the visible duration gets reduced to 1-1,2 seconds (was 1,5s).
- The lullaby radius, terror radius, threshold of full invisibility in the otherworld is decreased to 18 (was 24) meters.
- Her Lullaby is no longer directional.
- She keeps her pallet stun immunity, loss of collision and undetectable for the lingering flickering duration (,which is 4 seconds without the mirror addon). (New)
- She flickers for 4s after crawling out of a TV. (new)
- She keeps flickering while breaking pallets and vaulting windows (currently deactivates after starting those actions).
Teleport/TV/chase buffs
- Removing TV auras
- Increase the tape insertion, grabbing and the speed for turning off TVs to 1,5-2s (was 0,5s/1s).
- TVs no longer turn off after projection (was 45s, iri tape basekit), which allows you to teleport to them infinitely until survivors turn them off, but the Tv you teleported to doesn’t spread condemned for 45 seconds.
Changes to her condemned mechanic
- Passive condemned: Every 25-35 seconds of holding a tape gives 1 stack condemned. Edit: The timer is paused while the killer is within 16 meters of you or chases you and it stays paused for 6 seconds after these conditions no longer apply.
- Only one (was all) TVs spread condemned.
- Condemned gets spread in a 20-24 (was 16) meter range.
- Hooking a survivor (with a tape) gives all other survivors 1 stack of condemned. (new, ring drawing basekit)
- On the second hook all (was 3) condemned stacks get locked in.
- Every 60-90s survivors receive a stack of condemned passively. When a survivor is in chase, on hook, slugged or carries a tape their timer is paused. (new)
Comments
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I do think there should be more of a downside of holding a tape. Good survivors know you just grab a tape from the start and u are very unlikely to ever get to the stage where u can be mori’d.
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So, there's zero incentive whatsoever to get a tape with this.
Holding a tape gets you condemn stacks, you get fully interrupted and can't get rid of the tape of the Onryo follows you to a tv, and getting hooked with the tape gives everyone condemn stacks.
Grabbing a tape doesn't turn off TV's, so what's the point of going for one ever? You're back to the previous iteration (I forget which exactly tbh) but basically survivors ignored tapes and TV's and it was like the power didn't exist at all.
This also feels a bit like your expecting condemn to be the primary way this killer eliminates survivors, and that's not how it's supposed to work. It's supposed to be passive pressure, a bit of slowdown, and you want it so be something the survivors have a reason to do. It should be rare that condemn gets you a kill, similar to pig hats, but people seem to think this should be both unavoidable, effectively uncounterable, and her primary mode of eliminating survivors. That's not the point of her ability.
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I try to solve that by making her more consistent against all skill levels, but I would make her condemned spreading speed slower against people who don’t understand her.
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So, there's zero incentive whatsoever to get a tape with this.
Not really. You take tapes for turning TVs off or for removing condemned. I don’t want nor do I like the concept of forcing survivors to shut down my TVs, basically removing my whole power at all times like it is right now, especially with no counterplay on sadako’s end. I want to be able to use her TVs to sneak up on survivors like in the past and have a good map presence, which the current concept makes impossible.
Holding a tape gets you condemn stacks, you get fully interrupted and can't get rid of the tape of the Onryo follows you to a tv, and getting hooked with the tape gives everyone condemn stacks.
Maybe I should have clarified, but if she follows you while you are holding a tape you won’t gain condemned. I reintroduced this mechanic back from her first version, where the passive condemned timer was paused if you were in chase or if she was in a 16 meter radius to your location.
Grabbing a tape doesn't turn off TV's
It does. Can you tell me why you thought so? Then I can edit it to avoid more misunderstanding.
I don’t want her condemned to be super oppressive nor do I want it to be ONLY slowdown. A middle ground between not hindering her other abilities and being good. Saying it is supposed to only be slowdown ignores how it was in the past. In her first you could use her map presence very well and condemned (if you played well), in her second version you could only use her condemned (because all TVs were shut down just like in her current version). However in her current version her condemned is trash as well as her map presence.
That's not the point of her ability.
Currently not, but it once was. That can change if behavior decides to.
I’m trying to make her more even across skill levels and simpler to understand. Currently only people who don’t understand her die to condemned, because it is highly abusable against them and in high levels it is extremely useless, because survivors can hard counter her in every aspect.
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Cursed objects such as tapes, need downsides. Passive Condemn would be perfect. Thats all shes needs. Adjust how current condemn works to make it fair for survivors too.
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Very much agree my friend. I would even be happy if she gets anything minor. Maybe with the upcoming anti systems her kill rate drops and the devs look at her again.
Side note: I really don’t get why people downvote my suggestions (without commenting), when I specifically ask for feedback, so I can adjust these ideas and know how they feel about it. Introducing downvotes to the forum was a very bad idea. It only leads to people avoiding discussions, the very thing the forum is about.
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Not really. You take tapes for turning TVs off or for removing condemned.
So when I say that there's no reason to take tapes, I'm referring to the version of Sadako that worked like this before (I honestly forget if this was the first or second version of Onryo at this point tbh). The primary complaint from killers was that survivors had no reason to interact with the TV's and condemn was basically a complete non-issue. We already tried this version, killers hated it because survivors could just ignore the TV's entirely, and they changed it.
Maybe I should have clarified, but if she follows you while you are holding a tape you won’t gain condemned.
So I think I described it incorrectly. When I said that "you get fully interrupted and can't get rid of the tape of the Onryo follows you to a tv" I was referring to your increased TV interaction speed (Increase the tape insertion, grabbing and the speed for turning off TVs to 1,5-2s (was 0,5s/1s)). At that point, an Onryo with something like STBFL can potentially attack, recover, and attack again before the survivor can finish inserting into a TV.
At 7 or 8 tokens, the blade wipe is less than 2 seconds. And account for lag means that the surivor will not be able to finish inserting the tape before they are not only hit twice, but still hold the tape. Especially with your "hooking a survivor holding a tape gives everyone stacks" and "locks in all condemn progress" changes, the new meta is to just follow anyone with a tape and use STBFL. There's really nothing the survivors can do, except body block as the obsession (and anti-body blocking is on the way).
It does. Can you tell me why you thought so?
I misread your "projecting doesn't turn off the TV" statement when typing this. That's my mistake.
Currently only people who don’t understand her die to condemned, because it is highly abusable against them and in high levels it is extremely useless, because survivors can hard counter her in every aspect.
Condemned is far too strong of a base kit ability to make it anything that can be very consistent, or even the primary, way to kill survivors. You aren't really making the character "easier to understand", you're simply removing any aspects of the kit that survivors have any influence on.
In particular, making the team suffer because of those "survivors who struggle to understand her" is one giant flaw here. I don't want to be punished simply because my RNG solo queue teammate didn't get the memo. I shouldn't get condemned for something that I have no control over, can't communicate with or to this teammate, can't use perks or items to mitigate. This just feels like a "win more" mechanic for the killer whenever there is a weak link on the team.
As an example, you talk about removing the fact that TV's disable on projection. So, they tried something similar to this before (not exactly, but close) and they had to add a cooldown on her power for it to even be considered. That was loudly decried as a terrible move. But you don't even include a cooldown, so we're going back to teleportako. Killers will just teleport incessantly (probably between two different TV's) and stack condemned, especially with the increased radius you mentioned. And since the teleport animation cancels survivor interaction, it's almost impossible to get to a TV and shut it off before the killer can teleport to it and hit you. On smaller maps, or two story maps, this is nearly impossible to avoid, and has no downside or side effect for the killer to do this until someone eventually hits max condemn stacks.
The TV's and projection CD are supposed to be a renewable resource for the killer to decide to use, but this just makes it an infinite, spammable ability for Onryo players who can't (or won't) manage their kit's resources properly.
The unfortunate reality here is that these changes will just mean survivors don't have to interact with the TV's at all, and literally the only play will be to gen rush this killer before condemned can be permanently locked in on someone. The only way I see people having to interact with the TV's is an Onryo spamming teleport to force condemned, and pushing for a one-shot down in half of one chase. That sounds like the most boring gameplay I can imagine, for everyone involved.
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People who didn’t play her complaint about her design, not the actual Sadako mains. Sure we wanted buffs but NO reworks
I wouldn’t even make tapes a never touch like you describe it. I would just shift the point of touching tapes to a different point in time and not make it a mindless tape grabbing simulator.
I never had a problem with her condemned being not strong in her first version, because teleport was good and useful, which it is no longer, but at the same time her condemned is not good as well.
At that point, an Onryo with something like STBFL can potentially attack, recover, and attack again before the survivor can finish inserting into a TV.
You shouldn’t be able to remove stacks during chases in front of the killer without having enough time for the interaction. It being like that is just dumb.
locks in all condemn progress
I only suggested locking in all stacks on the second hook stage, because it doesn’t matter there either way. Either you get morried or she hooks you, in both cases you die. After the second hook Sadako could as well just use a mori offering for the same effect.
anti-body blocking is on the way
Sadako can already go through people while demanifested.
Condemned is far too strong of a base kit ability to make it anything that can be very consistent
It isn’t too strong in my version. The counterplay would just not be brain dead bullying the killer like it is right now. My build up would also give survivors plenty of time to remove their condemned, because the build up wouldn’t be very fast.
You aren't really making the character "easier to understand
So please explain to me how making tapes more intuitive is not making them easier to understand?
- Tapes are for removing condemned - makes sense
- Turning off TVs - makes sense
- I removed the part where you have to turn off TVs in advance - which is not intuitive and not easy to understand for any player that almost never plays against her
- Condemned is a passive build up over time, that allows Sadako to mori you - easier to understand than the current version.
Alone changing/removing the third part makes her a lot simpler than she currently is for players who struggle. I play her a lot and this is one of the big issues she offers for them.
simply removing any aspects of the kit that survivors have any influence on.
It’s not just influence, it’s like they have the full control over the whole power, which is why I would change it. Survivors can basically remove her power completely if they decide to. That is not good design.
removing the fact that TV's disable on projection. So, they tried something similar to this before (not exactly, but close) and they had to add a cooldown on her power for it to even be considered
You have no idea what you are talking about. She had a cooldown on her teleport, because she did spread condemned map wide via her tp. It had nothing to do with the actual teleport ability. She wouldn’t even be able to spam spread condemned unlike in the current version and I had added a cooldown which you probably didn’t see.
I shouldn't get condemned for something that I have no control over, can't communicate with or to this teammate, can't use perks or items to mitigate. This just feels like a "win more" mechanic for the killer whenever there is a weak link on the team.
It will barely do anything, which you’ll see if you try out ring drawing. I can understand that you don’t like being punished for other peoples mistakes, but oni, plague …. can do the same and they are considered fine. It can’t even be forced like you say, because you require a tape for the effect, which is completly under the survivors control.
But you don't even include a cooldown, so we're going back to teleportako. Killers will just teleport incessantly (probably between two different TV's) and stack condemned, especially with the increased radius you mentioned.
The current version is not even better in that regard.
- TVs would have their own condemned cooldown, which I just assume you didn’t read
- She wouldn’t spread condemned map wide, which makes it impossible to do the old mindless playstile, which I very much despise myself.
- I only suggest removing the cooldown for her teleport not the condemned spreading. I just assume you didn’t read that part.
It is only the teleport that can be spammed not condemned, which gives you so many clues already, that you should be able to manage it. If her teleport bothers you just turn the Tv off. You have more than enough counterplay.
The unfortunate reality here is that these changes will just mean survivors don't have to interact with the TV's at all
You are very inconsistent in your statements. At one point you say condemned will be too strong, but how are you going to remove it? Then you say her TVs having no cooldown is a problem, but just take a tape and put them on a 70 second cooldown!? So in what world do survivors never have to interact with TVs ?! Only if they are ignorant.
The thing you really dislike is, you wouldn’t be able to hard counter her without having to put any effort in. The current tape gameplay is nothing more than good mode for survivors over her whole power.
I shouldn't get condemned for something that I have no control over
You have a very big double standard! For the killer to lose his whole power by something he has no control over is great design according to you, but having a minor thing survivors have no control over is ….
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