http://dbd.game/killswitch
There no nothing wrong with Map Variants, Stop removing variety... PLEASE!!!
Honestly this little tidbit on the Steam, just casually dropping that you are to remove huge parts of map variety, incredibly infuriating! Supposedly because someone says they fall short, well allow me then to push back on that.
Mistake 1: Variance is the Spice of Life
Without variants, every match on a specific map will feel identical, leading to predictable and repetitive gameplay. Sure, you may get a different tile if all maps have no variants. But different tiles are not enough to make matches feel fresh and unpredictable. It all comes down to the location of the strongest tiles and distance to them, the main building and the Shack, usually. What this does is that BHVR is saying, it's good to only enjoy one version of Ormond, with the exact distance between the strong places always the same.
If a map variant has to go, then I think you should reach a community-wide consensus and make people explain why this specific version is so awful. Check the win rate—does it create widely unfair matches?
Mistake 2: Survivors Don’t Need to Memorize Maps to Succeed
Some argue that survivors need to learn map layouts to do well. This is simply not true. Sure, in high-level play, knowing every detail of a map is beneficial, but for the vast majority of players, that level of memorization isn’t necessary. Dead by Daylight is, at its core, a party game. Keeping map variants makes gameplay more dynamic and fun, preventing every match from playing out in the exact same way. If survivors always know exactly where to go, and killers always know exactly what to expect, then the game risks becoming formulaic and dull.
Not knowing where you are going is part of the game. Honestly, that is good—now work with it. Games are not fun when you know everything.
Mistake 3: Survivors Should Have to Adapt, Not Memorize
One of the best things about DBD is the sense of tension and uncertainty. Imagine a horror movie where the victims know the exact layout of the building they’re trapped in. That’s not horror—that’s a chess match. Horror thrives on the unknown, on forcing players to adapt to their surroundings, not just recall them. Removing map variants turns every match into the same scripted experience, rather than a new and engaging challenge each time. Survivors should be required to figure out escape paths on the fly, rather than relying on rigid memorization.
Final Thoughts
I realize I may come off as very anti-professional and very anti-skill, and I get it. I understand why players like that would love removing variants because it makes the skill pool required smaller. But honestly, here you have the chance to develop a skill that works from unknown parameters, and they don’t take it. I don’t understand that.
I am deeply disappointed by this change. I understand that the developers have reasons for their decisions, but I truly believe that removing map variants will make the game feel repetitive, predictable, and ultimately less fun. Please reconsider this decision and listen to the community’s concerns. Variety is what keeps games like DBD alive, and taking that away is a mistake that will be felt by both survivors and killers alike.
I love this game, and I want it to continue thriving, but not at the cost of its core appeal for me.
And the Skill people already have maps such as RPD which is the same every time.
Let’s keep Dead by Daylight unpredictable, dynamic, and, most importantly, fun.
Comments
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map variants make the new player experience and pathing in general more confusing than necessary. this change was likely made for the influx of players fnaf will bring.
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No.
Yesterday i got 3 coldwind and 3 of that haystack map in a row.-3 -
Any of which I address this in the post, if you would read it more closely.
Its not bad to be confused about whats behind the next bush, its part of the game.How do you think Laurie Strode felt in Halloween?
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Then maybe, the map selector should pick by realm. But this isnt a variant issue, is a realm repeat issue.
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They should focus on making more maps if the game's lacking variety, different layouts of existing maps are just bloat. This was a good and welcome change and I must say you aren't entirely wrong - variety is undeniably good. 4 versions of the same map is stupid. I know it, you know it, Joe knows it, let's be real.
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But removing all of these maps then we get different realms with different maps. I know i will be enjyoing seeing more of Elementary school. Mental hospital and other maps where i will crush people with ghostface/nurse
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I can agree, that the Badham Variants specifically are the worst offenders, but that's not a reason to destroy other perfectly fine content. Then they should do something about the problem, not just AXE it.
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But that is only because they dont adress other issues, they treat the map variants as a full map themselves instead of a variant of a map. But that isnt the map variants fault.
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They should keep variants if:
- Theyre clearly marked (like Badham variants were)
- They maintain a semblance of quality - a lot of them didn't, which was the listed reason for their removal.2 -
Like honestly, if your problem is with the Badham Variants then ask BHVR to make them more unique.
Don't ask them to remove all variants!I'm seeing the idea floated that its fine to support this because Badham is so bad in their opinion that sacrificing 3 other fine variants, keeping your eyes on the price is fine and all. But destroying perfectly good maps to make a point is horrid.
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Removing them is mostly a good change simply because the vast majority of the variant maps were just not good maps. Disregarding the fact that they were variants, a lot of them had things arranged in ways that just felt completely out of place or not well laid-out, they felt rushed if anything and they were mostly downgrades compared to the original maps. It also added an additional barrier to learning maps (especially for newer players) and overall this was not worth the variety it added to the game especially when we already have as many maps in the game as we do even without the variants.
In my opinion, the only one that was actually better than the original and should have stayed was Suffocation Pit 2; Suffocation Pit 1 is a bad map because of its layout (creating 3-gens on either side of the map with a strong center area in between encouraging the killer to mostly stick to one side if they can), a problem which Suffo Pit 2 did not have at all because it was a completely different shape.
As for Badham specifically, 5 variants was simply way too many. I have over 5000 hours in this game and I still could not tell you the exact differences of all the Badham variations and where the buildings spawn on those maps even if I knew which one I was playing on. Also, the entire Badham realm was unbalanced anyways, so hopefully the map design team can now rebalance Badham more effectively now that they only have 1 map to worry about and not 5 of them.
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Thats not whats going to happen. The badham 'variants' are just one map, variants of one map. Theyre not suddenly going to remove 3 coldwind maps so theres one map for that realm, because those are maps, not variants. If there were 5 variants of fractured cowshed specifically then removing 4 of them would be comparable to what theyre doing with badham.
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What do you mean with:
"Theyre not suddenly going to remove 3 coldwind maps "Look ingame, they are GONE. POOF.
2 Ormond Variants DEAD, ceased to be.
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Tell me why the Variant Maps are bad, I don't think so, I have no issue playing them. Didn't seem much different from other maps. like what specific thing is wrong with them?
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I disagree. I never liked the 400 different styles of badham's. Map Variants are frustrating.
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Sure you can disagree, but idd like to question why. Why specifically are you saying Map Variants are fustrating?
And frustrating how? I find Nurse frustrating.2 -
Strong agree. I would be all for giving map variants the same chance as one map, but just removing a ton of content is not good.
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They just have always been for me. Could just be how my brain works but everytime I go to a different map variant I feel like my brain is being put through a blender. Everything is all switched up all the time for so many variants. Its frustrating.
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What exactly do you mean with "your brain is being put through a blender"?
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Both of these Ormond variants encouraged holding 4 gens because their gen spreads were tipped towards 3 or 4 around main.
It's good that they're gone, because neither of them encouraged interaction between the two sides.
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They were in a lot of cases confusing and not very well balanced either. In most of the original maps, things felt like they were placed in certain positions deliberately and carefully whereas a lot of the variants completely lacked that flow and felt like things were moved around solely for the sake of change, which made a lot of them not feel good to play on. Some of them had problems with gen layouts, some of them had issues with loop placements, it varies. But if you asked me to pick the best version out of each map with variants, almost all of the original maps would win.
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If The Ormonds variants truly encouraged 3-genning, then matches on those maps should should end significantly more in such a stalemate. That is at least testable, and then we could spread those Gens out more, Agree?
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While I valid your opinion op, no they where awful specially Ormond. The Ormond variants was king of 3/4 gens situations and killers abused this alot. Also when I think about it, maybe that is maybe why WOO the perk that had 10 billion complaint nerf it topic because it was used so hard by new and old players alike.
I do not use it myself however but that can be a possible reason. Also sure variety is nice but all these variants was clearly copied and paste homework that gave trash loops, trash pallets, 3 and 4 gen situations. People yes may love to experience different things but at the same time people get tired of having to experience new things almost every time. Who knows, maybe less WOO use.
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What is it about the variant maps that you find confusing? Like you don't know where you are or you cant figure that out?
The way I work is; I don't care where I am, if the Killer shows up ill run the nearest tile and run to what I see.About the balancing of the Map Variants, which you are the second person to say are unbalanced, like nothing could be done for those maps then? Like what specifically was unbalanced?
About flow, How could flow be improved?
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If 3 gens were a problem on the Ormond variants, why dont we just tell BHVR that and fix the maps?
Why do Map Variants just get to get freely nuked, while other maps that definitely have the same problem gets a pass?
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Did you missed where I said about trash loops, pallets and all kind of clutter? It not just the 3 4 gen reason
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So I was looking at if BHVR has given a proper justification and I found this:
Which idd agree with, YES playing the same map over and over sucks (why do you have map offerings then?)
But this isn't an argument against variants of maps, its an argument against Map variants not counting as much as the map when a map is selected.Honestly why dont you just program an exception in the realm selector, to see all variants of a map as a specific type first?
Why waste like probably 200 hours of the Map Team's time by removing the maps`??
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Sorry, yeah which trash loops do the variants have over the original?
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The issue with this is the speed at which these changes occur. We get maybe one map retune every 4-6 months.
I don't really wanna wait 2-3 years to have a map setup thats passable whilst those maps spend those years being an ever-present issue.
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So the logic you are working from here is, BHVR is working too slowly regarding balance of the Maps, and since that is unacceptable to you and that Map Variants seem to be the worst offenders, just delete them?
Like they are like 100s of hours of work from the Map Team and you don't even fix the problem of the speed at which rebalance occurs, we will get more maps next year and those maps will be balanced equally slow.
Dont you think there is a better way to approach this problem then if you dont really solve the core issues and just burn some maps?
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The logic I am working on here is that I would prefer the maps cease to exist rather than believing that they will be meaningfully improved in the rest of this game's lifespan.
Besides. It's not like BHVR can't still fix maps. Badham may only have 1 variant but that 1 variant still needs fixing.
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I didnt see the new ormond map at all since it came out on PTB coz of the variants, good riddence lol
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Well it would be up the BHVR to demonstrate that those maps are indeed unbalanced, if they really are.
What if you are wrong then, what if the map is just about as balanced as any other? Just destroy them anyway?-2 -
How many matches you play a week?
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I'm not wrong, generally.
- Badham variants are all famously incredibly survivor sided. Making them less common (especially given there were five of them) is a good thing, imo.
- Ormond variants both have issues with gen spreads that lead to uninteractive gameplay.
- Most Macmillan variants make for maps with problems, especially their size and their tile layouts (although that might be more or less true now that tile logic is busted).
You could argue I am wrong about select variants (Suffo 2 I think is fine but Suffo 1 is also mostly fine tbh, Sanctum of Wrath makes a generally balanced map worse but not in any super egregious way, I literally could not care less about Family Residence II so no opinion there) but on the whole, I think this was the right play for game health. Most of the variants removed were a net detriment in quality. This lets BHVR focus their map balancing efforts on just one map, rather than a map and 1-4 extra shuffled around versions of that map.
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These are all claims that could be tested, if the Badham Variants were survivor sides then they would show up as such on stats.
But none of these are things we have evidence currently to substantiate. Without evidence not much I can say to this other than speculation.You are also just repeating and doubling down on what you said two responses ago here.
BHVR has not even acknowledged anything you said could be a thing, Sure they could focus more on less maps, but will they?-2 -
If they don't focus on maps, then I'm right to think that deletion would be better long-term for the game.
If they do focus on maps, then they'd stand to benefit from being able to polish the ones we have rather than having to polish badham five times and ormond thrice and shelter woods twice and- you get the idea.
Also, Unofficial stats do back up Badham - of all the realms in the game, only two boast sub-50% kill rates on nightlight. Forsaken Boneyard and Springwood. Whilst not necessarily accurate to the game's actual numbers, comparing it to the rest of the unofficial data, it's clear Springwood is survivor sided.
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Sure, im sure if BHVR does exactly what you say, then that will prove you correct, dont really care about predicting the future right now. I dont understand what you think telling me this would do for your argument here, like either you are wrong or your are right about the facts you fling out. Speculation regarding BHVR following your orders make no sense to me whatsoever.
Also a stats claim, Interesting do you mean these stats?
Yeah by 10% which means every 10 matches, Survivors win 1 more than they need to, which is extremely meaningful ofc.
You have 0.5% chance to be sent to a map, where Survivors could win 1in10 over you. Anyway.
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All those maps were bloat and trash that deserved to burn. Good riddance, rest in pieces four completely unnecessary Badham variants that no one liked.
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I agree, but tell me why BHVR opted to treat Map Variants then on the same level of as any map type under a realm?
Honestly this seems to be the core problem when you ask why, which could have been solved by simple reprogram of the map selector. But instead we waste 100s of hours of work, that has to be the WORST decision ive seen in a long while.
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Excited for you to loudly argue against Merchant changes since her pickrate is 1% and her winrate will likely move by less than 5%.
It's a 1% chance for survivors to win 1 in 20 less than they are now, right?
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Why would I argue against Merchant changes, BHVR laid out perfectly logical and provable reasons for why she needs to change. Do you not read the preview? or thing its just all opinion? I genuinely don't understand why you think I would argue against that… Can you give me the logic for it?
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You dismiss statements about badham because "You have 0.5% chance to be sent to a map, where Survivors could win 1in10 over you. Anyway."
The SM changes will be mathematically identical in outcome. I'm calling out an inconsistency in logic.
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The logic is not inconsistent, yes, the changes of running into Skull merchant is small, but that has nothing to say on the actual reasons which BHVR has given about the problems that Skull merchant has. Your chances of playing Badham 5 would still be insignificant, but the difference being that while a map is distributed evenly, a Killer is played my people so those problems happen to the same people way for often. Context is important to logic, you should not ignore it.
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I think it was good that they removed it. Map variations only made it harder for new players to learn the maps and also made it harder to balance them.
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Do you feel like you need to learn new maps? and honestly from my personal experience even casual dbd players cant find their way around even non-variant maps. So I honestly dont believe that removing the map variants will help.
Also how do you figure having Map Variants makes it harder for BHVR to balance maps?
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It's quite simple, there are some variations that are balanced, and others that are not. So besides having to balance the original map, they still had to worry about balancing all the variations.This only made it more difficult and took more time. And this made it difficult for new players because they had to learn about 500 different variants of the same map.
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Fair enough, I mean more maps does mean more work. But this could easily then just be an argument against more maps.
I would like to be convinced that new players actually need to learn new maps to play well.
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Seems that Map Variants have been re-enabled in Custom rn, Does anyone know if they are back in the Match Game Pool?
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