http://dbd.game/killswitch
So uh tomorrow morning Balanced Landing kill switched right?
I know BHVR isn't in office on weekends so surely tomorrow they kill switch balanced landing. Potentially allowing for infinites is NOT something that should be taken lightly.
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Mmmm, old Balanced Landing.
Perhaps people will realize with this small taste of what old Killer players dealt with that maybe, today isn't so bad after all.
Should be killswitched tho, for sure.
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Ghoul has tons of bugs rn he is not kill switched. When Merciless Storm reset gens it was not kill switched. Kill switch is reserved for game breaking bugs.
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To be fair, genuine infinites (which I have no doubt that old BL creates) ARE game-breaking.
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Wait a minute? Old Balanced, with no cooldown on stagger?
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Would it be an infinite if you're in chase though? Also most maps have giant holes right next to elevation vaults now so.
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Allowing for infinites is game breaking.
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Do we know for a fact this perk is glitched, or did they do this on purpose? We took possible infinites out of this game for a reason…
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The perk literally has in its description "Balanced landing can NOT be used while exhausted" meaning while exhausted the perk is essentially shut off. And it still reducing fall stagger while exhausted is a bug.
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Thanks for clarifying. Is there a bug report yet? If not I can go make one.
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No, it isn’t. Harder to catch Survivors is not what the killswitch is for.
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yes
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Yes. Dead Dawg main building is probably an infinite.
Some Haddonfield houses probably are as well.
Maybe Shelter Woods
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Seems gamebreaking to me.
So did Merciless Storm.
So did Wake Up.
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So I take it you don't know what an infinite is? Because infinites mean the average killer, not talking about nurse, kaneki etc, would not be able to catch up no matter what they did. It was the whole reason why balanced was nerfed to have the speed boost at all levels so people couldn't keep it at tier 2 to keep JUST the fall stagger reduction.
Again allowing for infinites again is broken.-2 -
I know what an infinite is. Nurse is right there. You mention Kaneki who is extremely bugged rn (including insta down no counterplay) and isn’t killswitched. They do not use the killswitch for these things.
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Theres an infinite with balanced landing?
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They use killswitch for game breaking things. And potentially allowing an infinite IS game breaking. Just because X thing exists doesn't excuse THIS one not to be kill switched. Don't change the subject.
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Just because it hasn't been found yet doesn't prove it can't be a problem. If anything I'm noticing people run builds with haste stacking like power of two or blood pact.
Post edited by Brimp on-6 -
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Old BL allowed for the speed boost on a 60 second cooldown and wasn't exhaustion. This is still exhaustion, it's just the 75% stagger reduction is still applying even while exhausted. I can't think of any infinites this creates, it's just kind of annoying for pure M1 killers to deal with.
Post edited by Zakon05 on0 -
Nice try. There are very little things more problematic than potential infinites.
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The devs have kill switched Wake Up when it was increasing all action speeds even before gates were powered, and that wasn't game breaking. They kill switched Potential Energy when people found a bug to gain charges with toolbox repair speed without consuming toolbox charges, cutting gen times by nearly 40 seconds. Again not game breaking but made matches way less fun but they were still kill switched.
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Might do some testing with it then, and see if it indeed works like the OG version did.
Edit: Can indeed confirm that it works like the old version did. It did not help against Kaneki though 🙃
Post edited by THE_Crazy_Hyena on2 -
Nemesis has gamebreaking bug and is not killswitched, yet he should be.
BL also technically has gamebreaking bug and should also be killswitched.
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BL is not making quite some tiles on some maps literal infinites with no resource consumption and thus should be killswitched
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I would like for people to showcase exactly where Balanced Landing creates actual infinites, with a killer trying to catch them. Even a pure M1 killer, no chase ability. You take a friend, go into a custom match, and it should be easy to demonstrate, doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes out of your day.
I'm not saying there doesn't exist at least one such setup, nor am I saying bugged BL is fine if it doesn't create literal infinites, but I just don't enjoy how posters on these forums always claim things without backing them up one bit. The general spirit is one of a lot of yappening and not a lot of happening.
These days, with most elevated vaults having openings close by, as well as today's Bloodlust and Entity Blocker specifics, I struggle to see what could possibly make for an actual infinite. And again, that's not even talking about all the killer abilities that would completely negate that anyway. Maybe Saloon main building, and perhaps some path around Disturbed Ward's main that uses the holes in the upper floor? But then you also need to account for the ability to keep out of chase state.
But to stress this again: BL doesn't need to create a situation where a killer (and even if it's only one without a potent chase ability) literally cannot catch a survivor to be problematic. It suffices if it makes a bunch of setups stronger than is reasonable, which I do think is the case. I don't think the perk in its current bugged state is nearly as gamebreaking as it is being made out to, I in fact do not believe it is gamebreaking at all. But something doesn't have to literally break a game to be problematic.
The fix for this should be incredibly easy for BHVR to implement, but if they really cannot do so within the week, sure, killswitch it. Although they for some strange reason are awfully reluctant to engage their killswitch, despite it being designed for precisely such cases. It's as if using it takes more effort than they're willing to exert too, which would make it a flawed implementation.
Anyway, I will use this opportunity and post to talk about Balanced Landing in general, and its need for a buff:
Exhaustion perks are always competing for slots with other Exhaustion perks because they cannot be used alongside one another effectively or at all. This means that if some of them are (more or less) objectively worse than others, they are objectively not worth using because you'd obviously want to just use those others instead.
BL suffers from this issue, and arguably more so than any of the other Exhaustion perks. For starters, it is more conditional than all of the others, because the ability to activate the perk at all depends on the map, and the opportunities to fall off an appropriately steep height are limited on most maps, with some maps barely having any opportunities at all. Compare this to Lithe or Smash Hit, the next-most conditional Exhaustion perks, yet still infinitely more accessible than BL. This not only makes it much less reliable in chases, it also further limits the ability to get value from the perk in other game situations, be it just to traverse distances a bit faster or to set up for rescue plays and such.
Then there's the fact that BL is more telegraphed than any of the other Exhaustion perks, because you regularly have to run to places a survivor would have no business running to in a chase if they weren't using BL. This opens up counterplay opportunities for the killer where they can try and zone or intercept the BL, undermining its impact.
Next, there's the fact that BL doesn't even reduce the stagger by 100% - there's still a bit of stagger left (25%) and this eats into its 3-second, 150% sprint, reducing the distance you make with it in a way no other Exhaustion perk suffers from. It also allows killers to often hit the survivor during the stagger still.
In the case of Smash Hit BHVR made the concession to increase its sprint duration to account for the time you spend locked into the pallet drop animation. And then they also reduced its Exhaustion timer as a concession to its conditional trigger. BL on the other hand got none of these concessions, it's a dated design that should have long been reconsidered on.
I would go further and say Exhaustion perks in general show signs of age and given their almost incomparable impact potential on the game of DbD as well as their unique trait of being in contention with one another, a more holistic overhaul would be appropriate, or at least an overall rebalancing.
Another thing of pertinence here is that BHVR around a year and a half ago (again) removed the ability to vault windows and pallets during fall stagger. While that was a fairly reasonable adjustment (albeit there could have been other, perhaps better solutions), what wasn't reasonable was them - in what I assume was a ham-handed bandaid fix - alongside this adjustment also removing the ability to do much of anything else during fall stagger, including healing, unhooking, jumping into hatch, and on. This was an undocumented and wholly uncalled-for shadow nerf that is relevant more often than you'd think. And again, I don't think this was even intended or deemed beneficial, I think it was simply that BHVR couldn't figure out (or didn't want to spend the time and effort figuring out) how to only stop survivors from vaulting during stagger, and so they went ahead and simply made most of all actions impossible. This is another reason to look into "stagger" rebalancing, both in relation to BL and in general.
But without going into all that, I will propose a few adjustments for BL that I think are completely reasonable (I'm not suggesting all of these should be implemented):
At the very very least, its stagger reduction should be back to 100%.
The noise suppression should not be on a cooldown.
Its sprint duration could be increased to 4 seconds.
Perhaps reduce its Exhaustion timer to 20 seconds.
The stagger reduction could be on a separate, independent cooldown, of say 30 seconds (although then perhaps keeping the 75% reduction amount).
Alternatively, make BL a non-Exhaustion perk and simply have it suppress falling noises and reduce the stagger by 100%, on a 20-or-so-second cooldown.
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Are you just saying there is an infinite with balance landing or is there one for real? They‘ve nerfed all maps so hard that cero stagger should not do much and in most cases it feels required to even play certain loops.
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Very well said.
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That's original BL. Old BL had Exhaustion but didn't have a cooldown on the stagger reduction, which turned Haddonfield (and others) into infinites.
Returning that, especially after so many years, into maps that were not designed for it will create infinites.
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I can show you 2 right now. Equip the perk yourself and use the dead dawg or Crotus offering. If the killer isn’t Nurse or Blight you should be able to infinitely avoid the killer.
I looped a kaneki for 4 minutes with it today for a video. He killed everyone else and I let him kill me because I’m not a scumbag.
Balanced Landing is fine. It doesn’t need any buffs. Its stagger reduction must stay tied to the exhaustion. 75% stagger reduction could literally be its own perk it’s so good.
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Personally I would rather say that Balanced Landing would be better to deal with nowadays, even if the stagger is removed, simply because Maps are far weaker. I dont really know of any location which might become problematic since almost all two story windows have a drop nearby so the Killer will not lose much distance. A few windows on Dead Dawg would need drops (some houses have balconies with only a window), but thats about it. And even then I would say that BL would be one of the weaker Exhaustion-Perks.
(In general, the goal should ahve always been to make the maps bearable, not to nerf Balanced Landing, since the nerf did not make things like Haddonfield actually good for Killer)
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Anyway, I will use this opportunity and post to talk about Balanced Landing in general, and its need for a buff:When I saw your post I was wondering how even Zarr was going to talk for 13+ paragraphs on a bug.
A few thoughts:
This means that if some of them are (more or less) objectively worse than others, they are objectively not worth using because you'd obviously want to just use those others instead.So in a game where there is a lot of moments that I go 'why BHVR?', I think the way exhaustion perks work is a solid design. Each exhaustion perk has pros and cons compared to the others. Some of them could use a few more pros, but the idea of 'pick 1 and no more than 1' is a good limiter on creating a category of perks.
For starters, it is more conditional than all of the others, because the ability to activate the perk at all depends on the map, and the opportunities to fall off an appropriately steep height are limited on most maps, with some maps barely having any opportunities at all. Compare this to Lithe or Smash Hit, the next-most conditional Exhaustion perks, yet still infinitely more accessible than BL.I'm not going to be a huge defender of balanced landing, but there is one counter point to this.
Lithe especially can activate when its not the best time for it. If you're at a strong loop you might want to hit the window a few times before you get exhaustion and run away, Lithe will trigger before you can get all the value out of the loop. Balanced has less places to use, which is a huge drawback, but can be controlled a bit more when it occurs.
At the very very least, its stagger reduction should be back to 100%.The noise suppression should not be on a cooldown.Its sprint duration could be increased to 4 seconds.Perhaps reduce its Exhaustion timer to 20 seconds.Two or three of those would probably be helpful. I think it would be a good idea for BHVR to look at the exhaustion timer on the various exhaustion perks as a subtle way of boosting the weaker perks.
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kill switched? If anything it needs the 100% reduced stagger not effected by exhaustion back. BL is borderline twitching in a corner. You literally gotta set yourself up to use it, it’s such a right place at the right time exhaustion perk as is.
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Kaneki is definitely not one of the killers you can do this to if they're not messing up big time. But regardless, again, I know bugged BL makes these and some other setups unreasonably strong, but actual infinites? I would have to see evidence thereof. And without the killer behaving intentionally obtuse.
75% stagger reduction one time per chase (at most) would not be a perk anybody in their right mind would use. The on-sprint stagger reduction is a prerequisite for it to function as an Exhaustion perk at all.
BL is a more than fine perk in its own right, there's tons worse that would sooner need buffs, it just has to compete with the other Exhaustion perks for slots and this leads to it being categorically subpar. It's awfully rare to be seen. And the remaining 25% of stagger have no reason to be there. Getting hit through BL because of it is infuriatingly common.
I think the way exhaustion perks work is a solid design
I'd tend to agree. It's one of the most elegant means by which they have made game-defining perks not stack in an unhealthy way. The game if anything could stand to benefit from more of these distinct, defining "categories" of perks.
But yes, my issue is that due to their (more or less) strict mutual exclusiveness, all of the subpar Exhaustion perks effectively end up being sort of non-perks, at least whenever you are actually going for an optimized build. If I'm free to put together builds for a team without limitations and the goal is to win as decisively and consistently as possible, everyone's on Sprint Burst every time. A perk that released with the game launch and has been the #1 since…
And BHVR has already shown they are willing to rebalance Exhaustion perks even by ways of adjusting fundamental Exhaustion mechanics, deviating from the 3-second 150% sprint and 40-second Exhaustion timer paradigm. SB could do with a 50 or 60-second timer, most of the other Exhaustion perks deserve a buff or another.
Balanced has less places to use, which is a huge drawback, but can be controlled a bit more when it occurs.
Absolutely true, the more conditional nature of its proc also has that upside of the control element. Although I don't think it comes close to outweighing the drawback. For one thing simply because it will much more often happen that you would want to use your Exhaustion perk but can't in the case of BL than you not wanting to use your Exhaustion perk but being forced to, and for another because the latter scenario understandably is also much less detrimental (in fact it's more so a comparison between something that is actively detrimental (not being able to use despite wanting to) versus something that is still beneficial but merely of lesser benefit (having to use when ideally you'd not necessarily want to yet)). And for Lithe there is still at least some measure of control by ways of using slow vaults (which have also been made just as fast as medium vaults with a recent patch for some reason, not that I'm not welcoming of this change).
Beyond that I would note that BL's activation trigger is also more inconsistent than any of the others, since nobody really knows what exact height will suffice to proc it (even if they know from the wiki it's supposedly technically 4 metres). This requires players to be much more familiar with possible spots to proc BL and it can also randomly screw them over when they fall just under that threshold. Oft have I seen people try to BL off a hill but catch a stray rock that softens their landing and kills them. There's also the fact that your framerate can affect whether BL procs or not, such as in the case of Autohaven's trucks.
I think it would be a good idea for BHVR to look at the exhaustion timer on the various exhaustion perks as a subtle way of boosting the weaker perks.
Agreed.
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Oh, Balanced is broken like THAT again? Ah jeez.
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amen~
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Nah, keep this perk the way it is. Killswitched for what? They didn’t killswitch ghoul for being overpowered for weeks now. Refused to nerf him until he went live so what’s the problem with one perk having that kind of effect which barely makes much of a impact when nobody has really been running this perk. 😂
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