http://dbd.game/killswitch
Do you think SWF's shouldn't be able to stack the same perks?
As the title says,
A lot of the issues I find when playing against SWF's is the stacking of perks, usually where Meta comes from, do you think this could be a place to force people to play different roles within a team and diversify matches?
Comments
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My friend and I both run Bardic Inspiration. If DbD takes away us being able to play our lutes together, we would probably lose the will to play the game.
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that's true! There are fun perk combinations which people use to be silly and fun that would be affected by this idea.
I'm mostly on about the Same exhaustion/Unbreakable/Windows/OTR builds that waste so much time even if you're not trying to go for the one person. Others body block with them while you aren't trying to tunnel and while it's fine for solo Q as it makes sense these perks exist, in the sense of a stacked SWF communicating they are just straight on gens.
but nerf said perks and you make solo even worse, and I feel this is one of the sore spots of this game where both sides disagree because Solo and Killer have clashing viewpoints.
limitations are never fun, but neither are nerfs, it's a dilemma0 -
I think you should be able to have the same perks, I just don't think the bonuses should stack. That is, I think certain bonuses need to cap.
For the same reason a Killer should not have four perks that all slow generator repair to a crawl by stacking bonuses to an obscene amount, Survivors should not be able to coordinate in ways to run a bunch of items and perks on their SWF to buff generator repair to an obscene amount (On one person as a Gen Jockey is OK, just not everyone). It shouldn't be possible IMHO for generator speed to dip below -25%, or above +25% for anyone. Cap it.
I feel similarly about haste and hinder stacking, I am glad it was removed despite the fact it could make some pretty fun builds. It was pretty unfair to have situations where Killers could never catch Survivors (like with MFT+Hope or MFT and other haste buffs), or where Survivors were stunned for ages in ways they could not avoid while in chase. I believe something similar needs to be done for other stuff.-1 -
I think repeated perks are only really difference makers when four survs who are supremely excellent at the game quad up. They also attempt to tilt the odds further in their favor by running the strongest items, utilize comms very well, plus throw on map offerings, which will be dealt with later this year it looks like.
These groups are also the rarest of the rare four-mans, which in turn are the rarest of surv groups. They still with such advantages do not escape half the time, and the game obviously is not balanced around them either, being the tiniest portion of the global players.
So now we're talking about limiting perk choice based on what's possible for the smallest group of survs. If the devs have made one thing perfectly clear over the years it's that they wish players to run what they like in either role, and will (perhaps not quickly enough at times) make changes should outrageous combinations be found.
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I'm mostly on about the Same exhaustion/Unbreakable/Windows/OTR builds that waste so much time even if you're not trying to go for the one person.
Totally, I get that. It's tiresome that solo queue, the weaker role, sacrifices stronger perks for info perks, while the strong role doesn't need info perks so they can stack up on second chances and what not making themselves even stronger.
Unfortunately, if we stop SWFs from stacking perks, all perks get affected, even silly ones. If BHVR tries to create categories of perks and each survivor is limited to one of certain types, then BHVR's problem-solving method of using band-aids to fix gameplay problems comes to the forefront because survivors become limited on which gameplay issues they can put a band-aid on.
One of the healthiest things for DbD would be if every killer were treated individually. Have survivor perks affect each killer differently to account for that killer's strengths and weaknesses. Like DS having a longer stun on Nurse but a shorter stun on Trapper. But at this point the game has so many killers and perks that it would be unreasonable to create unique interactions even for just the most impactful elements. Instead, weaker killers are begging for lube when put against survivors running the meta, but stronger killers need survivors running the meta to even feel anything.
Sorry I have no solution to offer. The problems are easy to spot, but each potential answer is strangled by the tangled mess that is DbD's game design.
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Yes, they shouldn't be able to and that would be a great QoL change to then further balance the game around. SWF already get a bunch of perks for free, just by being on an actual team, they shouldn't then get to stack the most meta perks and it would encourage them to use other perks.
People also claim these groups are rare but almost every match I go into as Killer is against a SWF team with items and add-ons, very rarely do I go against a SoloQ and when I do, it's easy peasy mode where I'm refraining from doing too much because it's so easy.
The gap between SoloQ and SWF needs to be fixed and limiting SWF perks would be a great first step.
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I feel it might end up removing more fun than it would solve any actual problems, but that's just my opinion. What kind of perks do you feel are problematic? It would be frustrating to want to run a build and never be able to because it just so happens one other survivor just happened to also pick that perk.
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This is not comp, it's pubs, so no need for any perk restriction. No one should be punished just for playing a game with their friends
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comp has much more restrictions compared to pubs and i think it's completely fair to implement such a thing as perk repeat prevention because stacking perks, especially those like Vigil, StB or anti-tunneling + antislug for aggressive usage is extremely unhealthy for the game.
#1 most problematic: StB
#2 most problematic: Vigil (because it's bonus stacks)
#3 most problematic: anti-tunneling perks and their aggressive usage
#4 most problematic: anti-slug perks and forcing lose-lose situations in combination with anti-tunnel perks
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I would say that it is worth simply introducing a system of -1 perk slot for each next swf participant, so full swf will still have all the aura perks for free, but will only have 1 perk slot, but normal solo players or small swf will not encounter problems
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You don't have to apologise, I opened this discussion to try and bring people together to get come up with ways that could maybe find a way forward for both sides,
That said, it's looking like this is not the solution so far, I guess the solution is to keep bringing solo Q up to the standard of SWF, with more information like anti camp visible to all when a survivor is hooked or the likes of head on being lit up when in a locker nearby another survivor.
I guess we just wait and see what the QoL changes hold for us <3 I'm really excited for them personally2 -
I feel it's made for sense to just adjust those perks specifically than a blanket restriction across all perks. I'm all for a stb nerf, ha.
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While I agree that it's annoying to face full squads where everyone is using the same meta builds I don't think people should be punished for playing with their friends.
I think that the gap between solo queue and swf should be narrowed (with quick chat for example) and killer strength should be adjusted accordingly.
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I don't think SWFs should have immunity for being nerfed. If it's ok to nerf the strongest killers, then it should be ok to nerf the strongest survivors.
Nerfing SWFs is not the same thing as "punishing people for playing with their friends". And BHVR can certainly nerf SWFs by targeting stuff that disproportionally reward SWFs.
A much better approach would be for BHVR to review perk stats, to figure out which ones perform much better in SWFs than in solo, and nerf those perks so that SWFs won't get as much value from them.
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We shouldnt be removing incentives to play swf. Punishing players for stacking perks would be a very unhealthy way of balancing the game.
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This is basically just comp restrictions but only for the survivor side. Seems like a pretty one sided suggestion. You want to limit the sweatiest players but only on one side. Are we going to ban grim embrace, deadlock, and dms for killers as well? This is also the norm in comp.
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I should not be punished by using Sprint Burst (my favorite perk) just because my friend chooses to also like Sprint Burst and want to use it.
As others have stated, DBD is fundamentally a casual game that people can choose to play with friends or soloq (the majority player base) - by preventing build creativity (with the addition of the haste changes) - it stifles the game and puts people in a position to now have to decide what perks they run, who is the best at so and so perk, and create even more of a disparity.
As the above poster said, if limiting what a SWF brings is a situation where you think are issues - then simply running perks that counteract these perks (we just got a killer release that causes exhaustion to be a bit more redundant and pushing stealth oriented gameplay) is not a cause for concern and would make pub games even more comp heavy minded or lose a drastic number of people ^ such as the lute lover.
You shouldn't be restricted for choosing to play with friends and the game doesn't need to penalize more of the community when the killrates are to what Behavior thinks is fine.
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Can people stop asking for limit players that want to play with their friends? If BHVR punish me just for playing with a friend, I’m gonna uninstall this game
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Perk restrictions are not a good idea if majority of playerbase is casual.
We shouldn't balance game based on competitive rules.
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