http://dbd.game/killswitch
Anyone Know the Answer?
What do you call an online PVP game that includes a "team" aspect into it as a core mechanic, adds in additional abilities dedicated to teamwork and camaraderie, but breaks or is complained about if said team communicates with one another and is good at being what they were designed to be?
Comments
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hard truth? A game that sucks pretty much for everyone else that’s not an A or higher tier killer or a 4swf on comms that’s played this game so long they understand most things and how to play around them. You don’t even have to play this game super long and just be a 4man and do better than most teams not on comms. The game is even worse on the sloped side because the expectation of learning and being on the same level with “hive cooperation” and expecting it to feel “fair” while paired with others is a big ask when killers are mostly built to succeed by design.
Ya know unless you’re just up for that kind of asymm challenge. Then it’s great. Depends on personal perspectives I suppose.
Anyways 4mans are putting the game on easiest mode on the survivor side. It’s why they can do well but not know gate spawns. There’s things unless you’ve sunk a ton of time into research and playing that comms just makes up for. You get a ton of built in perks that anyone else just playing has to learn or use perks to make up the difference for. Comms is that influential.
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You mean using an outside resource the game isn't balanced around? For the amount of perks you basically get for free by having coms it's no different than the survivors loading in with like 12 perk slots each. For lots of people playing a match against survivors with 12 perk slots each instead of the intended 4 doesn't sound fun or fair so it's understandable.
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I counted once, its 63 perks they get for free. Plus many other things that aren't perks. To be fair this was like, 2 years ago, so its probably more now.
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Please list all 63.
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Yeah which is why to me swf on coms isn't a "fair" match since obviously the game isn't balanced around survivors having that many perks. Not saying people shouldn't be able to play with their friends at all, but it's definitely unfair and not balanced for that.
Now swf without coms is a tougher one to gauge. Then we're left weighing how beneficial it is to ignore the mmr matchmaking to instead hand pick your team. On average your friends skill is probably just as random, however the higher mmr you go the less it's friends and more "picking the squad" and starts to creep towards raw benefit.
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No I mean simple communication. This isn't about "outside resources" when most games are made with communication in mind if you want people to be a "team." Not to mention people play online games to meet people and chat with one another. If this game had no comms at all, including discord, the win rate for killer would be higher than the 60% they have now, the killers that get nerfed into the ground would be the norm, and the game wouldn't be as popular or longstanding.
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So what's your question?
-1 -
Understandable. Just is counterintuitive to nearly every other online game I've ever played. It's my opinion that if people didn't have an outlet to speak to teammates or friends at all, then the game would've peaked a long time ago and probably wouldn't have the roster it has today.
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What do you mean? Its in the original post.
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I got a few minutes, would be good for my copy/paste i have of a bunch of data. Give me a few.
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A game not to be taken too seriously.
Voice comms weren't designed to be part of the game, which seems to be what you are driving at here. A design oversight for sure, since it wouldn't take god-tier thinking to have predicted it, but still unintended.
And playing with comms isn't a crime, but it does absolutely confer a competitive advantage over most players. Much will be made by some people about having to have the "skill" to utilize comms, but its value is only additive, even in the hands of potatoes. There's simply nothing comparable.
Consequently, many people will view your "victory" over them as illegitimate if you utilize them. And because this game is what it is, that's honestly fair. If people are looking for an arena to assert their video game dominance over people and have that validated by the game or others, this ain't it.
And while it feels bad for a lot of people in a lot of scenarios, this is an asym game. It's not mean to be fully balanced, and it never will be fully balanced.
If a person is to play DBD, they just have to accept that it is a hodgepodge of design oversights and imbalances, and utilizing them to their advantage is going to make them unpopular with entire segments of the community. That isn't likely to change.
So what's my takeaway here? Play for fun, and don't sweat the rest. Because the only thing that is certain is that someone(s) will find fault with you regardless.
Play on comms with your friends if that's fun for you. Just be prepared to be told it was cheap or illegitimate if you win.
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I'd call it an unbalanced game.
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Because if that were really the case, then Survs should be able to have in game voice comms and also be able to see eachothers loadout in the lobby with the game balanced around that. You don't see the balance fallacy of what you posted? SWF can be on comms while other Survs cannot be, the game can't balance out 3 different (SoloQ, SWF, Killer) sides while masquerading two of those sides (SoloQ and SWF) as being on equal footing when they're actually polar opposites in terms of gameplay.
They're refusal to add actual teamwork mechanics that all players can utilize and theyre refusal to nerf the teamwork mechanics that SWF get, is why the game is atrocious rn for everyone aside from a 3-4 man SWF.
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So since some perks are multi-function, or they have different impacts based on certain things. What i'll do is go off a point system.
So if discord, or coms in general gives full access to the perk, that will be 1 point, if it only gives partial, i'll give it a fraction of a point based on that. So, for example something like kindred, would give a full point, because the survivor on the hook, can tell the team where the killer is, and knowing where your team at is something you could do. Whereas say, something like say, Blood pact, you get half the effect, in terms of aura reading, but you wouldn't get the haste from coms. So i'd say that's half a point.
I'll also explain my reasoning for each perk, then also at the end, we'll list some things that coms and coordination gives you that you can't get from perks.
So here we go.
- Aftercare
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading only
- Alert
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer while generally chasing another survivor, and tells you which pallets are being broken. Something your teammate could call out
- Any means necessary
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on dropped pallets, something you can call out to your team when you drop it and run away and the killer doesn't break it.
- Better together
- 1 Point
- Gives aura reading of which gen you are working on to your team, and gives you aura reading on your teammates
- Blast mine
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the blast mined gen, giving your location out to your team. But obviously not the effect of the mine itself
- Blood pact
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on your teammates but not the haste
- Bond
- 1 Point
- Gives aura reading on your team
- Boon: Circle of Healing
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on your teammates and gives general location of your current teammate when the boon is lit, but coms don't give the healing effect
- Breakdown
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the killer, but not the effect of the hook
- Buckle up
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the killer
- Chemical trap
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the pallet its on, giving you a rough location of your teammates and where someone is getting chased
- Clairvoyance
- 0.5 points
- While not at the start of the match, with coms you can find all this information out generally in the first 20-30 seconds of the match from all your teammates
- Corrective Action
- 0.5 points
- Aura reading on your teammates, but not the other part of the effect
- Counterforce
- 0.25 points
- Aura reading on totems, again not at the start of the match, but during the match you can call out totem spots pretty easily as you find them
- Dark sense
- 1 point
- Aura reading on the killer
- Deja vu
- 0.5 points
- Gives you locations of generators, easy to call out to the team, but not the repair speed bonus
- Detective's hunch
- 0.5 points
- Similar to above, not at the start of the match, but very quickly you can call these things out to your teammates
- Empathic connection
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on your teammates
- Empathy
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on your teammates
- Eyes of belmont
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out, and i'd argue extending the duration of auras isn't useful in this context because you basically have "aura" of everything anyway.
- Fogwise
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out
- Hardened
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out, but does still suppress screams
- Inner focus
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out and scratch marks on teammates which is about finding your friends which is easy on coms
- Invocation: Treacherous Crows
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on killer and to your team
- Invocation: Weaving Spiders
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading to your team of where you are
- Kindred
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading of killer and teammates
- Lucky Star
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on teammates and generators nearby, but still does other stuff as well
- No one left behind
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading of other survivors
- Object of Obsession
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading of the killer, also i'd argue coms make OOO a significantly better perk because you can call out killer location to your team
- Open handed
- 1 point
- All about buffing aura reading
- Poised
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out
- Premonition
- 1 point
- Gives killer location which is easy to call out
- Quick gambit
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading of teammates but still gives a faster gen speed
- Rookie spirit
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura of regressing gens which is easy to call out to your team, but its not all the time so only half a point here
- Scene Partner
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer which is easy to call out
- Small game
- 0.5 points
- Similar to detective's hunch
- Spine chill
- 0.5 points
- Gives location of killer, but doesn't give action speed bonus
- Still sight
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer and other stuff that is easy to call out
- Strength in shadows
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on killer that is easy to call out
- Troubleshooter
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on the killer and of gens with progress which is super easy to call out
- Visionary
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on gens which is easy to call out
- Wake up
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on gates which is easy to call out as well as aura on teammates
- Wicked
- 0.5 points
- Gives aura reading on killer which is easy to call out
- Windows of opportunity
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on where pallets are up which is easy to call out
- Wire tap
- 1 point
- Gives aura reading on killer which is easy to call out.
So, if we add up all the whole pointers you get 19 points and if you add up all the fraction pointers you get 12.25. Which together is 31.25. There are 4 survivors, so i guess today its actually 125, so its doubled since the last time i did it.
Even if you want to exclude the fraction pointers, its still going to be 76 perks for free.
That's not to mention all of the coordination you can get that aren't in perk form, like coordinating who is going for pinhead's box, or coordinating a pallet or flashlight save right as the killer picks up a teammate, or calling in for a body block or various other things as well.
11 - Aftercare
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Dbd is in a limbo in which survivors gets to enjoy the wonders of comms without it being part of the game design or balancing.
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SWF is basically baby mode. It honestly blows my mind that 3 or 4 man SWF ever loses to anyone that isn't a comp Blight or Nurse
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This is such a dumb oversimplification…
'Giving .5 CoH because CoH has an aura reading element on other survivors and swiffers get that for free'
That aura reading doesn't make 'half a CoH', not even close. To then multiply that by 4 because 'everyone gets it!' is even worse because that implies that a full swiffer gets two copies of CoH for free, which is miles off the mark.
Some of these interpretations are also incredibly generous, like Spine Chill and Alert treating a swiffer as if they have immaculate, 24/7 updates on killer location, or permanent wall-hacks, which is nonsense. Same with Detective's Hunch/Small Game, which both give totem locations, something that swiffers don't get. They just get the ability to communicate these locations to each other once they find them.
It's almost like this oversimplification was specifically designed to massively inflate the estimated value of swiffers.
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In the face of overwhelming evidence, maybe that should tell you it's not as ground breaking as you all make it out to be...
Most SWFs are not comp, 4-man, flashlight abusing, 10,000 hour survivors. And many aren't even in comms. You've played plenty of games against 2 or 3-man groups and you didn't know it because you still need to be good at the game.
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I think this list is extremely misguided, and has a lot of flaws.
First, it's generally a mistake to assume that SWF just have access to every aura perk regardless of context. Even before we factor in the important distinction between constant, passive info and the bursts of active information SWF actually get, some of these auras are obviously not ones SWF get for being on comms - something like Troubleshooter's killer aura, or Dark Sense/Wicked if you're being tunnelled/Object of Obsession in chase is info on the killer mid-chase, which your SWF teammates aren't going to be giving you. Realistically they're not even going to be looking at the killer in these circumstances, and even if they are, people can't communicate fast enough to make the kind of snap decisions you get from mid-chase auras actually doable, it doesn't work that way.
Additionally, some of these perks have an aura solely to facilitate their actual effect in solo queue, which means SWF doesn't get half a point for them. Blood Pact, Blast Mine, Any Means Necessary, and Circle of Healing are all perks in this vein - not only does SWF not get their effects for being on comms, SWF actually get more use out of them than solo queue by virtue of being on comms, making their inclusion on this list completely backwards. They don't get these perks for free, they want to use perk slots on these options MORE because of their comms.
Then a couple of these aren't even like that, the auras are just like… a bonus. Strength in Shadows is a healing perk, you don't get half its effect by being on comms, Counterforce is a totem breaking perk, and Breakdown is a hook-breaking perk- same deal. The auras are nice, and less potent in SWF, but they're almost irrelevant to this discussion. These perks just shouldn't be on the list, even with less than a full point, they aren't relevant.
Comms can be powerful, as can the info you could get from them, but that doesn't inherently render auras obsolete on SWF players and it definitely doesn't invalidate every perk that just has an aura, not even by half a point.
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Maybe because playing in a team does not make everyone suddenly good at the game? Or make them care enough about the game to actually tryhard?
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Strong SWFs in the current balance usually lose winstreaks at 10-20 games. I know because I watched Xeno, Alby, etc trying to do one many times. They were getting destroyed by Legions and Onryos. The best comp team in the world couldn't go higher than 219 in the MMR era. Now go look up what the highest killer winstreaks are. If SWF is easy mode then why has NOBODY even managed to get close to what the strongest killers have been able to achieve? If it's so easy then surely there'd be some random team with a 1000-2000 winstreak right? Why hasn't it happened yet?
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Imagine if SoloQ wasn't stomps for the Killer. SWF would be complained about a lot less.
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Nah you went way too conservative with this.
Because SWFs also have perfect gen efficiency and in fact they can hardly ever be downed when they start taking hits for each other. They get the rescue at the right time to counter everything the killer can do, tunneling, camping, 3-genning, chasing, shnoozling and flabbergasting. We have to consider all the arguments.
Adjusted free SWF perk list:
- Adrenaline, Aftercare, Alert, Any Means Necessary, Appraisal, Autodidact, Ace in the Hole, Background Player, Balanced Landing, Better Than New, Blood Pact, Bond, Boil Over, Boon: Circle of Healing, Boon: Dark Theory, Boon: Exponential, Boon: Illumination, Boon: Shadow Step, Borrowed Time, Botany Knowledge, Breakdown, Breakout, Buckle Up, Built to Last, Calm Spirit, Chemical Trap, Clairvoyance, Corrective Action, Counterforce, Cut Loose, Dance With Me, Dark Sense, Dead Hard, Deception, Decisive Strike, Dedication, Deliverance, Desperate Measures, Detectives Hunch, Distortion, Diversion, Empathy, Fast Track, Fixated, Flashbang, Flip-Flop, Fogwise, For the People, Guardian, Head On, Hope, Hyperfocus, Inner Focus, Inner Healing, Iron Will, Kindred, Leader, Left Behind, Light-Footed, Lithe, Lucky Break, Made for This, Mettle of Man, No Mither, No One Left Behind, Object of Obsession, Off the Record, Open-Handed, Overcome, Overzealous, Parental Guidance, Pharmacy, Plot Twist, Poised, Power Struggle, Premonition, Prove Thyself, Quick & Quiet, Quick Gambit, Reactive Healing, Red Herring, Renewal, Repressed Alliance, Resilience, Resurgence, Rookie Spirit, Saboteur, Scene Partner, Self-Aware, Self-Care, Self-Preservation, Situational Awareness, Slippery Meat, Smash Hit, Sole Survivor, Solidarity, Soul Guard, Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Stake Out, Streetwise, Styptic Agent, Teamwork: Power of Two, Technician, Tenacity, This Is Not Happening, Troubleshooter, Unbreakable, Up the Ante, Urban Evasion, Vigil, Visionary, Wake Up!, We'll Make It, We're Gonna Live Forever, Windows of Opportunity, Wiretap
-6 -
yeah this looks about right compared to when I would play to win on a 4man vs having none of that “hive mind” and needing experience to try and bridge that when I play solo.
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Literally every response panning "playing with friends" falls completely apart when you consider that 2v8 is a thing.
How many of these wildly biased opinions apply when two killers are on comms? I'm betting there's some excuse when it also applies to killers.
Or you could just accept that people playing video games with their friends isn't evil. That avoids the whole "bias" part altogether.
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Like i said, even if you ignore the half points and go with just the full, its still 76 perks.
-1 -
Is this satire?
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it’s not evil, and people should be able to play with their friends, but the advantages of doing so on comms is undeniable. It’s okay to call a horse a horse.
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Dead by Daylight
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