http://dbd.game/killswitch
I would like to present a new DbD term
Hello there, forum users.
I would like to propose a creation of a new part of the DbD terminology, with - The Freddying™.
Now, what is The Freddying?
It is a pattern of specific events, that lead to the following timeline:
- A new killer (may be replaced with a perk or add-on, but it usually includes a killer power) is released into the game.
- The killer has a unique ability that the playerbase starts to despise with a passion over time. This is either caused by the overall strength, or the convoluted nature of the power.
- The killer power gets nerfed.
- The playerbase demands more nerfs despite the point above.
- Points 3 and 4 may repeat multiple times.
- The killer power is destroyed, the killer is now in the C/D tier of every tierlist.
- The killer is eventually reworked, stripping them of their uniqueness and made into a stock dash/projectile killer.
Examples include: the original Freddy, the Skull Merchant, the Good Guy, the Knotted Rope add-on (a unique case, but it does follow the pattern).
What are your thoughts? Do you think this term may see some use? Let me know :)
Comments
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It's not even funny how often this has happened, and I really hope they don't do the same with the ghoul, because I can already see early symptoms of The Freddying™.
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Chucky and the Houndmaster's add-on were nerfed, not reworked, so I don't think they fit this category. Not to mention that, though Chucky's nerfs were a bit too harsh and somewhat unneeded, the nerfs to Knotted Rope were 100% guaranteed (they did go a bit too overboard with them, but the original 40% in the PTB was insane). So far neither of those fit this category.
Freddy and Skull Merchant, however, absolutely do.
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It's an unfortunate sight, yes.
I really hope Kaneki will not become a part of this pattern, but we can't be sure.
Here's hoping.
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You can just simplify “The Freddying”
- New Killer Releases with a power that could be anywhere on the spectrum of very weak to very strong
- Survivors simply don’t like the power and refuse to learn the counter play or interact with it
- Demand Nerfs
- Review Bomb Chapter until Nerfed If Devs don’t listen
- Rinse and Repeat for every single killer
If you make that the Criteria then you can apply “The Freddying” almost every single killer that has ever released!Freddy was quite literally the worst killer in the game and survivors still wanted him nerfed because they refused to learn that 1 action they had to do to wake up. And then they review bombed the game until he got gutted.
Classic Survivors!
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I believe something getting ‘Freddied’ was already a term.
Although it moreso has to do with a killer’s power getting completely overhauled for the worse. Like with SM, and the Twins PTB.
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If Kaneki is weakened any further, he will join this vapid stream.
Frankly, I don't even want to see that happen.
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That may be true.
Overall, the main part of the Freddying is the eventual rework for the worse and less fun, so maybe I just made an older term resurface again.
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Frankly, I don't even want to see that happen.
You and me both.
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The Freddying sounds like a bad M Night Shymalan film lol
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Sad truth.
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Terms are like slang. It can't force it, it just happens.
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You don't want to get Freddied out there in the fog
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I personally prefer: Pigged
As there was always the joke about "Better nerf pig" even though Pig really didn't warrant most of the nerfs they got.-1 -
If you make that the Criteria then you can apply “The Freddying” almost every single killer that has ever released!
Do you genuinely think this is something that happens in reality? Let's look at some recently released killers and how they were treated since their official release:
- Kaneki: received some extremely needed nerfs.
- Houndmaster: received multiple buffs since release and only VERY minor buffs such as Dog vault speed going from 0.45 s to 0.65 s.
- Dracula: received multiple buffs and two nerfs to CDs.
- Vecna: received a fair mix of buffs and nerfs, mostly to CDs.
- Unknown: only received a slight buff and QoL changes.
- Chucky: this one was actually heavily nerfed.
- Xenomorph: received a fair mix of buffs and nerfs.
- Singularity: received many buffs and a bunch of QoL changes.
- Skull Merchant: also heavily nerfed AND reworked multiple times.
- Knight: received many buffs but also some nerfs and tweaks that in a way reworked the way he works and made him a bit more unsatisfying to play as.
- Wesker: remained unchanged for like two years before receiving very slight nerfs.
- Dredge: received multiple buffs.
- Onryo: was buffed, nerfed, and reworked so many times that she might actually have been Freddied™
- Artist: remains UNCHANGED since her release.
- Cenobite: remains pretty much unchanged since his release, with a single little nerf to his cube teleporting somewhere else if he stands on it for too long.
- Nemesis: has only received buffs.
I could go on but we're already in 2021 (with Nemesis being an Anniversary killer) so I think that's enough.
Overall
BUFFED: 5 (Houndmaster, Dracula, Singularity, Dredge, Nemesis).
NERFED/REWORKED: 5 (Kaneki, Chucky, Skull Merchant, Knight, Onryo).
MIXED: 2 (Vecna, Xenomorph).
UNCHANGED: 4 (Unknown, Wesker, Artist, Cenobite).
It seems a lot more balanced than you claim. People need to stop with this narrative of all killers getting gutted soon after their release because it's not true.
And also, do you genuinely believe that 100% of times survivors simply never learned to adapt? Is it really IMPOSSIBLE for BHVR to release a killer who is fundamentally overpowered and needs nerfs? Because I agree that survivors sometimes DO refuse to adapt, like with the latter iterations of Skull Merchant (people are still DCing these days) or with the original Freddy design, but sometimes killers ARE too strong and deserve the nerfs (Kaneki being the biggest offender as of late). The same way that sometimes killers ARE too weak and deserve buffs (Dredge is a great example of this).
Also feel free to argue with my reasoning for some of these because I'm not 100% familiar with every single killer in the game and how every single change impacted their gameplay. This list is not 105% accurate but I think it more or less reflects what has happened with each of these killers since they were released.
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i use the term dumpster because that's where killers usually go after nerfs
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You know, for someone who often claims to play both Killer and Survivor (In other forums) , you have an incredibly jaded view on survivors and an extremely biased view of killers, which makes me wonder the validity of your playstyle given your coddling of the killers. But, eschewing this for the main point, You could say this for any part of the game because it happens on both sides, VERY actively.
One of the biggest points was the Dead Hard nerf that came way back in 2022 and then the goalpost was shifted and moved to the next set of meta perks killers were tired of survivors running, while running the same meta perks like Thana, Pop Goes, BBQ, Undying + Ruin/Devour Hope (Cause that was still a meta back then.), or Corrupt.
And, as you expect, every time a new killer is released that is remotely OP, capable of gaining downs and hooks quite fast, or made doing ANYTHING so utterly oppressive there was no point; the Forums were flooded with survivors in outrage of how busted the new killer is.
- Like when the abomination known as the twins was released
- Or Pinhead
- Or when the Knight released (God, what a time to be alive…)
- How about Skull Merchant? (Wasn't that fun?)
- Remember the Singularity?
- Or maybe Chucky (Insert hellish Doll screams as it charges at you from half way across the map.)
- Oh, Oh, or when Vecna Released and people took to the streets in rage about getting denied their pallet by the mage hand?
The point I'm trying to make is that almost every killer that's released since Twins has either been decent and tolerable or so utterly insufferable to play against that the hatred they got, was (To some degree) warranted.
It has nothing to do with the idea of survivors learning how to counter a killer because that's a fallacy and crutch that every killer loves to hide behind, knowing full well how stupidly powerful most killers are (And still refuse to acknowledge it in hopes that their "New favorite Main" doesnt' get nerf) And everything to do Devs releasing Killers that have more powers then necessary (Dracula, midularity, Lich, Ghoul.) , refusing to deal with literally anything else then adding a new killer/survivor every 3 months. . .
And unsurprisingly, people like you.
Classic Killers. . .4 -
Anybody who thinks recent killers are unplayable are utterly delusional. So sick of seeing threads like this, people are still doing win streaks and are still doing hardcore challenges etc as killers…
Out of touch Killer Mains anonymous here. More people need to play both sides3 -
I am jaded after years of listening to survivors bawl their eyes out about everything. Check any DBD post. ANY POST. And you’ll find countless survivors asking for things to be nerfed or saying “killer sided game”
They are cry babies. The vast majority. Some of the weakest killers in the game have been nerfed because survivors throw a fit and refuse to learn the counters.
Survivors are the ones who are being coddled. No more hook grabs. No more tunneling. No more slugging. No more face camping. No more camping at all. Basekit BT. Free anti camp. Literally insane.
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I don't really think killer side is unplayable, just merely pointing out the interesting way history repeats.
Kind of that "if I had a nickel..." meme.
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No more hook grabs. No more tunneling. No more slugging. No more face camping. No more camping at all. Basekit BT. Free anti camp. Literally insane.
Are these anti camping, anti slugging, and anti tunneling mechanics in the room with us right now?
Cause all I see is that killers have to stand 11m from the hook and literally nothing else has changed. By the way, it's anti FACE camp. Funny how that changes depending on how bad people want to make it sound on paper.
Oh wait, except endurance doesn't stack, so base kit BT actually disables every anti tunnel perk in the game except DS because killers complained about it.
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They should rename Dead by Daylight to Dead on Arrival.
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i hovered for a while over the downvote button, but decided against it, because you got right a lot with this post and obviously a lot of knowledge and esprite went into it, BUT I think that context matters a lot, too.
For example right at release Houndmaster, Dracula and Singularity felt aweful and only the first round of hitfix patches made Houndmaster and Dracula dangerous and safed them from mediocracy. But especially Singularity was significantly weakened from his PTB version, so much that it felt like a rip off and the survivors had so much active say over Singularities use of their power that it felt like playing just an M1 killer without any saving grace.
The buffs to Singularity only happened MUCH MUCH later, at a point were this killer had all but disappeared from the publics eye and wasn't really encountered by players, because his power felt to unrewarding and clunky. That he is NOW in the buffed category feels a bit missleading or missing the point.
Sorta the same could be said about the Dredge, whoms supposed great map mobility is hindered a lot by erratic locker placement and how the survivors quickly wisened up to the fact that closing half the lockers instead of all of them is just the biggest time sink for the Dredge, eventually showing in the pickrates plumeting. The massive 8.2 buffs were much needed and happened extremely late in the killers life cycle, so again, calling this a net-buff in this context feels a bit out of the loop.
And the changes to the Alien feel far from "mixed", in my opinion. While right after release the Xenomorph was extremely overtuned due to the lack of punichment for missed tail attacks, after this was nerfed, the killer felt extremely unrewarding and miserable to play to most killers, because it was hit with the infamous double nerf, ie rewerting the wrong PTB to life change (this was good and necessary) but also slapping another nerf on TOP of that (which kinda killed the alien). To be honest, I haven't played the Xenomorph since its newest wave of changes, but most players don't seem to be too happy about that one either, so again, calling it a net-mixed bag feels disingenuous.
Still, I appreciate the work that went into your post, so take my neutral stance as a win.
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kinda like when Reassurance was nerfed from PTB to live because killers complained "wahh I actually have to chase someone else waahhh I want to camp hooks forever waaahhhh gotta keep my pResSuRe waaahhhh"
And that's just one of many examples over the years
Classic killers!
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I wouldn't call that a "Classic killers", as this one happens much less often, but I also felt that the outrage about Reassurance was completely unnecessary and blown out of proportions and, to be frank, quite embarrassing.
But in this case it wasn't even the killers complaining that killed the perk, but the fact that trolling survivors used it to keep the hooked player in the game, essentially taking the game hostage.
I really think that Reassurance is a great perk in design and just short of being great, but completely held back by its rocky history. My solution was always this: give everyone with the perk 3 charges and you can use one charge after the other when the previously one run out. This way you have a hard timer in case of trolling, but one player on Reassurance duty could actually make a big impact, by staying hidden and potentially make the killer slash at every bush, while the other two survivors could finish their gens. This way Reassurance would become the perk it was always meant to be. You could also implement that any givin hook timer could only be extended 3 times, no matter which survivor used their charges on the hooked one, putting an extra hard cap on trolling attempts.
Also, the range needs to be increased by about 1.5 - 2.0m, right now you have to do such a close drive in, that you can basically give the survivor a high five and a trade would actually just be as good as the extra 30s. Also, it should be used from outside the basement, just by running over the hooked survivor, this is actually such a no brainer.
As you can tell, for me being a dirty Killer Main, I am pretty pro-Reassurance ^_-
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Yep, like I said, not everything I listed might be absolutely accurate. But I want to point out that, with my comment, I'm trying to dismantle the notion that BHVR always releases decent characters who they quickly nerf as soon as they've grabbed their cash. Because the original post I quoted seems to believe that BHVR nerfing all killers soon after their release is a thing that actually happens all the time when, really, it does not happen that often. And this idea that BHVR does so as an easy money grab, though not explicitly stated by the OP, usually comes in hand with OP's statement, so I'm trying to tackle the two at once. And I'm trying to showcase the actual diversity of changes killers got, from buffs to nerfs to QoL to… stasis, in the unchanged killers' case.
Also, I did not consider the changes that happened from the PTB to live because I'm analyzing what happens after BHVR releases a killer to the general public (as we know that not that many people play the PTB, since it's restricted to PC only and most people playing it are the most hardcore DBD fans, who rarely reflect the way the new content will be received by the general public). Like I said, since I want to dismantle the idea that BHVR maliciously nerfs every killer soon after they're released, taking the PTB into account is a bit pointless.
I am aware that BHVR releases a lot of killers in an unfinished & unpolished state, though. It's been my biggest criticism against BHVR as of late, since the last two killers we got made it seem as if they don't even try playing their characters before they release them (and some older ones too, like Twins due to how buggy they were, or Blight whose FOV was what Chucky's would be rn if he wasn't 3rd person, and who also needed all maps looked at & changed so that collision would properly work). I don't particularly remember it being the case for Dracula (though it's true that he received buffs in the first patch he got) but I am fully aware that killers like Houndmaster or Twins were released with a TON of bugs, and that the buffs to Houndmaster in particular came with the intent to compensate for them. Of course, though many bugs have been fixed, many of them remain to this day, but that's a different subject. In the case of Singularity, he needed a LOT of QoL changes to make him less clunky to play, which came in hand with many buffs too, and it's true they came like a year after his release, so he might fit the "unchanged" category, though the killers I included in that category either remained 2 years with no changes or have not received any big changes yet. But you're right that he was neglected for a while. Bear in mind that this does not coincide with OP's statement, though. They imply that every killer gets nerfed after their release. Being neglected needed buffs for a while is not the same as being outright nerfed. And, besides, he ended up getting those changes anyway, and now sits among some of the best killers in the game.
As for Dredge, I agree with you. I never said he was OP or even strong right now. I'm just pointing out that he did get some buffs. Are they enough? Nah. Killers whose power is so reliant on maps will always feel clunky and Dredge is probably hit the worst in that sense, since lockers vary A LOT from one map to another. Though it's true that his buffs came like two whole years after his release, so he actually fits "unchanged". Again, though, he was not nerfed.
As for Xenomorph, you're probably right. She's the killer I had the most doubts about when making this, especially because some of her changes are really new and there was recently a PTB where Xeno mains caused a big uproar (justifiedly so, from my understanding). However, it's tough to say if she's actually in a worse state right now, because many of her recent PTB nerfs were reverted and thus she received mostly buffs in the last update. Since I'm not sure about the overall outcome of her changes, I included her in "mixed". It does not seem her changes go strongly either way, it seems as if she was a clunky killer who received a bunch of changes but remained as clunky as before. Since that clunkiness is not new, the changes are not necessarily nerfs. But like I said, I don't really know for sure.
To be honest I'm tired of this narrative about every killer being nerfed little after their release because it's simply not true. My assessment of the aforementioned killers was a bit inaccurate, but I think we can agree that most of them (Xeno possibly being the only exception) were not nerfed after their release. I think that if we want to have a proper discussion on balance we need to stop spreading false narratives (which, mind you, often have their foundations in senseless Us vs Them narratives which are the one thing I can't stand about this community).
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Thanks for your expansive answer, this shines a much more nuanced light on your earlier post, and I tend to agree to most you said here. While individual killers and their buff/nerf history can be debated (and I already commented on that one), my tone might have been a bit too antagonistic, as you yourself seem pretty level headed, and looking back at OPs statement, you are probably right: most killer releases don't fit the quick cashgrab narrative that is often spun, but somehow it always feels dangerous to like a newly released killer too much, as the ever present nerf bet looms menacingly over their heads.
A killers release time is always volatile and at times the pendulum swings in both directions too strongly, like with Singularity, were BHVR was obviously too scared to give him a strong power (and back then I remember a lot of comentators being salty that no new strong killers are allowed to release and join the high A or even S ranks) and he felt utterly impotant at release and with Kaneki at the other end of the spectrum, were he released obviously overtuned and too strong, especially in context to other killers who got similar parts of their kit nerfed (Chucky's scamper) or limiters set in place (basically all high mobility killers can't use their power around hooks).
When this event is over and things got back to normal, I might give Xeno a spin, I now kinda want to see how the rework plays, but right now its basically impossible to try out a killer with whom I am not familiar and already pretty good.
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Reassurance was nerfed due to potential griefing. It also hasn't been adjusted since the hook timers were changed to 70 seconds. It's pretty overpowered in the hands of a team
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3 minute hook stages is absurd and to deny that is blatantly disingenuous.
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My guy, you say that survivors are the ones who complain about every little thing on the killer side till they get nerfed, yet there are literally threads on this very forum of killer mains complaining about Blast Mine and demanding it to be nerfed (even though it's already been gutted like twice since it came out). Freaking BLAST MINE!
Also, the extra 10 seconds to hook stages was completely necessary, as that should've been added in patch 6.1 when they added 10 seconds to generators. It was only fair.
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