http://dbd.game/killswitch
The Onryo needs a rework (Yes, again)
Onryo received two reworks already, and I can say this is the worst state of Sadako since her release.
Hello, my name is Lucy, and I'm from Spain, and I apologize in advance if my english is not that good, but I needed to do this.
I have more than 1500+ hours on her, and if the survivors are just decent, you can't do anything against them.
Let's start.
- Survivors controls your power with no downside.
Yes, the counter of this killer is just one second interaction (pick tape) with no downside whatsoever.
The first Sadako had the passive condemn, and the second one at least you can break it with a hit and give them two stacks, but now they can just deliver the tape with another one second interaction with no punishment at all.
They can just take the tape and repair with no downside at all and you are powerless.
2. Your power only works in a few maps.
Even if the survivors are not very smart and they don't pick up tapes, your power only works in a few maps like the game, Midwich and forgotten ruins.
And as I said in the first part, even tho if you put someone full condemn they still can deliver their tape in front of you with that one second animation if they are healthy, because you can't breake it.
3. Her "chase power"
Some people say her has her manifestation ability for mindgames, but I tried many times against GOOD people even in short loops and still doesn't work against them, even with the addons (Reiko's watch and old's newspaper) is pointless, and pray even more if they predrop the pallet.
4. Besides Pig, she is the WORST killer in the game.
Onryo is the only killer that the survivor has the absolute control of the game; 1 They control your power with no downside. 2 You don't have chase power, that means you are an m1 killer the entire match and against decent survivors you can't do anything against them. 3 Believe or not, trapper with his best addons (iri ones) and legion with chase build are better than her, because you can snowball with trapper if you are lucky, and with the buff of legion that cancel your power so fast (and maybe iri addon of breakin pallets) you can down survivors easily in many scenarios.
I know in this game everyone has his own point of view, but as p100 Sadako which started playing this game because of her and loves playing her, I know this 4 facts are real, and it's atrocious, because the frustration I feel playing with this killer against good survivors I can't feel it with another one, because with other killers I feel like you can do something, but with Sadako even if you play perfectly, if the survivors play just fine, they are going to destroy you, maybe even in your best maps.
With this post I only want her to be finally in a good state, I have many ideas to improve her, but I'm not a developer to say that.
Her second state I still think it was the best, but I understand that it was not good because she was maybe too oppresive for new players because she only needed to spam teleports, and again too weak against good players because the counter was just pick a tape.
My basic idea for her is to put her power in a more interactive way that only just make "random tp's", and the survivors can't control your power, and if they do at least it has some risk for them or some downside.
Please be respectfull on this, the purpose of this post is to let the developers new the real state of Sadako and make her finally playable in mid to high mmr, because, as I said, it feels unplayable against decent survivors, at the level I had to stop playing her because the frustration is too much to handle for me.
Comments
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Hehe hehe...
I was called upon. 🐽
Sorry but have to disagree.
I mained her, next to Pig, ever since she came out and stopped playing when she got her first rework due to how awful she was to play and play against.
I have her at p100 as well. Learned playing her alongside famous content creator(s) (without ring drawing, iri tape and slugging) and pushed #bringbackSadako here on the forums until we finally got her 3rd iteration.
I have not run into a group I felt entirely powerless against. Maybe that's my playstyle, but it shows that she can perform at higher level.
The Pig slander is just... Ok. Disagree as well.
Both killers can perform decently well at higher levels. I get a head pop every 3rd to 4th game and a mori with Sadako literally every game.
I'm not a magician. I just play into both killers strategic strengths while not pushing my luck with their weaknesses (chase).
I dont have any of the problems you are describing. I'm really sorry, but if your not having any tvs to use that's partially your fault. Sadako's map mobility is unrivaled in dbd, enableing map / survivor tracking throughout any match. The skill ceiling of Sadako (and also to Pig to some extend) is to use that information to your advantage. I've seen so many sadako's NOT use this information at all.
I know how this sounds but it's my experience. The experience I've gained in around 2k+ hours on Pig and around 1k+ on Sadako.
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First of all, if you get a mori every match, I'm sorry, but you are not at high level, or you are in one of her best maps, because condemn is the easiest thing to avoid, just pick a tape, and chill repairing, and you can go traveling and shuting down tv's and deliver your tape removing your condemn, and her mobility in the process.
Even tho if you got the miracle of puting someone on full condemn, it will cost you like 2 gens to down him if they are efficient, because you don't have power chase at all, and at this point, the game is pretty much over.
And I'm not saying I never have any tv's, I have some, but if they pick their tapes on their gens, my tv's are useless because they don't inflict condemn and I have to travel to their gen with the turn off tv and they will prerun because Sadako have a nonesense lullaby.
If you say that is your experience, I can't say more, but, again, when you face really good teams, you are gonna be powerless.
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Trapper says hi.
Anyway... Yeah, her power can be held hostage by survivors. It didn't work well with Twins, nor with Singularity, and it makes her worse too.
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I very rarely lose with her (am literally unbeaten on one map with one exception where I literally faced a comp team with a meme build. That match was even close because Gideon meat plant is that busted for her.)
If mmr works even close to how it should be, i should be in the high mmr bracket with her. Most people I see have above 5k hours with a lot of them having comp stuff on their steam profile.
Sure she has bad maps, as every killer has.
"just pick a tape, and chill repairing." Why are you letting them get tapes that easy? Why are you not punishing them for grabbing tapes by chasing them? Ring drawing works wonders for that.
Sadako is the most aggressive hit and run killer in this game. Keep tvs on your side and monitor survivor movement. Track condemned stacks on each survivor to know where to push your pressure effectively.
I get people fully condemned at 4-3 gens remaining. In most games, not just one condemned pops but multiple at the same time. Mind you, you don't have to throw the game just to get that one survivor. If they are very decent at looping / have a strong set up, you can very much throw your game for chasing them. If that's the case. Focus on the others but keep track on them. They waste time getting rid of condemned and more often than not outposition themselves. Getting their condemned max after they got rid of the 7 stacks is not that hard. You'll get them there again in no time.
How to play sadako in a nutshell: you poke at the team from every side until something breaks. When it breaks, the whole team falls. Trust me, they fall very often.
I play against your strong teams. I dont feel powerless. I win most of these games. Just takes concentration, focus and fast decision making.
It's more than with almost every other killer though. The only other killer that takes that much on high level is Pig. Compared to Pig though, Sadako has a way petter early game. Pig has stronger slowdown and chase.
Both are decent killers. I main them for a reason.
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If you say you rarely lose, I'm just so surprised, because I can't win more than five in a row with this last second rework.
I try to punish them as you say chasing the ones who has a tape, but, usually I got the comp Ace or Nea which just pre run when they hear my lullaby to a decent loop (and I talk now in decent maps like Azarov and Macmillan) and it takes to me like a minute to get a hit, and if I drop chase and I go to chase someone else, they just heal and go back to repair, and if the other survivors are decent aswell I got the same. It's always the same, they pick a tape, maybe I get one hit, and maybe I try to go for condemn, but guess what, the other survivors turned off their tv's aswell, so I don't get a down and I don't get anything basically.
So I can't understand how you get a 4 gen condemn if they are competitive, because it happens what I just said, it's impossible.
And I forgot to mention what you said before that she has the best mobility, and I have to disagree again. Because survivors can remove your mobility, and there is Hillbilly wich has better mobility all game and instadown, there is also Dracula, Ghoul, (with first free hit) Blight with the second most strong anti loop in the game, etc…
If you like this version of Sadako it's ok, but I'm not talking about if I like her or not, I'm talking about that if you get a strong survivors in a decent map you will be destroyed and you can't do nothing about it.
All you have to do is look for comp teams againts Sadako, or 1v1's against her (some of that videos are even 7 minutes chases)
And I saw the world record holder Onepumpwillie loosing with very average teams aswell.
So, again, it's ok if you like the way she is, but what I am saying are facts, and a killer like this can't be in the game who the survivors control all your power and you can't do anything about it.
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I have quite some experience as killer (4k hours and a good winrate so my mmr should be over the cap).
I agree with you that sadako will suffer against 4 good players. I personally counter her hard as survivor.
But she is not the second weakest killer. There are many other killer who share the same fate. You dont have a chance against 4 good survivor who dont mess up badly. But there are not that many teams like that. So there are some unwinnable matches and on some days you get three in a row, but its not the majority.
So there are many killer who would deserve buffs. And there are also killer who need nerfs. And new killer every chapter. A lot of work. But Sadako has another problem. She is also in the category"noob stomper". So even in her current state with the easy counterplay (turn off the tv next to your gen), survivor struggle a lot. And not only beginners, even decent survivor do not want to learn. So buffing and upping her pick rate would be a problem. Then she would be the next forever-Freddy, Skull merchant, Kaneki etc. A killer many play, but is hated by survivors. Not good for the game.
And the stats/facts are important, but player feelings are also a deciding factor. Thats why we had nerfs which do only a bit to the strength of the killer, but decrease the pick rate by a lot. Bc if almost nobody plays them, its not a big problem anymore. If Singularity would become popular, a lot of survivor would complain and he would get nerfed.
Tldr: Sadako is fine in normal matches. A top-level-sadako would do more harm than good to the game, bc she destroys weak players. A completely new power could work, but then you can just play a different high-tier-killer.
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The owners of Onryo need to withdraw the license to BHVR already. BHVR is incapable of reworking this killer.
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I agree 100% with you, is a huge noob stomper, and you are not facing good teams everytime, I just say this is to let behaviour know that this is not a good state for her, and I'm not asking for buffs because as you said will be annoying for the survivor to play against, that's why I said it needs a total rework with a total different power, and yes I play another killers, but I'm just asking for this because I feel sad that the character because I played this game wich I love from the movies and novels is in this awful state (even more because on lore she must be one of the strongest 😅)
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Back then, I learned alongside Willie. I had the 3rd highest condemned back then. Sadly it's not the chase anymore, because I stopped playing her after the first rework only to come back after they partially revered that terrible change.
I can give you some advice to how I play, as my game plan is simple yet effective.
Build:
- Stbfl
- Surge
- Hex: face the darkness
- Discordance
Addons:
- Ring drawing
- Bloody fingernails
The core structure of almost all my games:
- Start by traversing the map looking for survivors. Try to get one hit in to activate face the darkness. If not, no problem, no pressure. If Discordance pops, don't go there. Wait for the tv to pop up next to the Gen and immediately TP for two stacks. You should be first if your on point, as the animation of a survivor can be interrupted by a TP (very important!) Then, either you get a hit or you TP somewhere else. To as often as possible to shut tvs off.
!!! IMPORTANT: REMEMBER EACH TV YOU SHUT OFF AND EACH TV THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHUT OFF. IT REVEALS WHERE SURVIVORS ARE!!!
- Start applying pressure. Show them that they need to deal with your power excessively. Your are faster on tvs than they are as they have an animation and you don't. When sadako shuts off a TV, a survivor can only put a tape into it. Not get one from it. Therefore the cooldown on those tvs is shorter. You as Sadako have to decide what chases to take and which not. It's a win if you get a stack. It's a win if you get a hit. It's a win if you get a pallet or down. Never let them decide where you go. If you keep up to date on tvs and their cooldowns, you will be able to move super freely around the map, enabling the strongest hit and run playstyle in dbd. Strong because it can very often end in a mori.
- How to play after a tp: immediately demanifest if you dont get a hit. Look where the other survivors are and TP there. Repeat that. Poke at them. If you haven't mastered tracking survivor movement speed, don't worry. That's what face the darkness is there for. It gives you constant information on where people are and where you CAN apply pressure.
- Tips for chases: chase them to tvs and get stacks. Don't shy away from leaving someone. If you got a hit and they heal, you wasted their time. If you got a stack, that's progress they have to try to get rid off. Poke at their recourses. Keep in mind, that bodyblocks don't work against you. That's an incredible strength against coordinated teams that take hits. In these bodyblocks situations, you can again make decisions. Down the person that you want to down or get stacks on them via tvs. Most survivors, even the very good ones focus on chase. Especially when they bodyblocks for others. They try to get to the next loop and never look for tvs in proximity. One survivor dodging a TV is realistic. 2 survivors that are bodyblocking for each other? They are less aware and take the stacks over a down. Mistake on their part imo. You have enough experience on her that I dont have to tell you much about her invisibility mindgames or stun-denial. Important is though: almost always be demanifested. I only manifest if I'm certain that I will get a hit.
It's very important that you know how to use the map to your advantage. Spots whrlere you can see more of the map are vital to track survivors and potentially deny them putting or grabbing tapes.
Playing this to perfection is not easy and demands a lot of focus and concentration. Playing Sadako often stresses me out more than any other killer.
My result: I win a majority of my games.
It's amusing how often teams that have comp all over their profile fall apart and lose their coordination due to constant hit and run aggression. If one of them fall, they all do.
The build I told you is extremely good to learn her and is also very strong if you mastered this playstyle.
- Stbfl enhances your chase potential. As Sadako gets every hit with m1, this perk is vital.
- Discordance provides info. Always. If it doesn't activate, it gives you info where survivors are as it does when it's active. Free stacks.
- Surge is the best slowdown perk on her, as it slows down gens while you do your stuff. It helps you to focus on applying pressure to survivors and not to gens (never thought about that funnily enough.)
- Hex: face the darkness the best learning perk on her, as it provides constant information. If they shut it off via healing? Good. More time wasted on their part. They want to stay healed, as Sadako is a stealth killer. They stay injured? Free info. Extremely strong. They destroy your totem? More time wasted and you should have enough pressure and info on them at this point anyway.
I dont have to explain the addons, do I?
I sadly don't have any gameplay recorded, as I've run into problems with that in the past, but I can do that for you if you need it :).
If you have any questions or need further advice on how to play this way, feel free to ask, I love to help.
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Mind you, I don't think she is perfect. She does need changes.
- Most her addons are STILL awful despite us criticizing them over and over with each rework.
- Putting in a tape is still too fast. You can't stop it if the survivor is healthy. Full stacks sbtfl should be able to stop it.
- Bloody fingernails should be made partially basekit to further enhance her chase and make her less dependent on the addon.
These are the problems, that instantly come to my mind. There are more changes I could come up with of course.
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Sadako is in a bad spot, agree. They only focused on condemned and gutted her mobility completely to make condemned stronger after her first rework. After which her condemned was too strong and they decided to weaken it, but they left her mobility still in the dumpster. Now her mobility and her condemned are terrible, which is a shame. But I guess her low pick rate makes her viable, because survivors still forget to do her counterplay and how she works.
PLEASE Behavior #Bring back Sadako map mobility
They should return her tape and TV mechanics to them from her first version (passive condemned, one Tv spreads condemned, no Tv auras). There condemned was easy to understand, her mobility was great and she was less of a noob stomper than she is right now. 1.0 was the best and fairest version we had for both sides. All they needed to do was adding condemned lock in and the other buffs the gave her, but without changing how she functions entirely. If they wanted to make condemned more lethal, they could have increased her radius where she spreads condemned or add a global passive condemned timer. This global timer has the advantage of being more consistent across all skill levels and being less abusable against players who don’t understand her.
The current all TV condemned is terrible designed. First of all, survivors who almost never play against her, don’t do the counterplay which gives Onryo the chance to fully condemned them in seconds. Against survivors who understand her and know the counterplay, she is basically screwed at all times. They can disable her condemned with 0 drawback and remove her whole map mobility.
Sadako’s ONLY strength is survivors misplaying at the moment.
3.0s design is so frustrating. I don‘t enjoy stomping people who don‘t understand her, while getting stomped without any counterplay on my part by strong survivors. Only because behavior decided to add so many things for players who don’t understand her, but these players aren‘t using these things either way. However, it makes her extremely frustrating to play against survivors who use this extreme advantage, which simply has no counterplay for Sadako.
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@radiantHero23 The only reason why current Sadako performs halfway decent is her low pick rate and survivors not understanding her, which both works together insanely well out for her. If survivors would do her counterplay, she would be insanely trash to play. If you don‘t have a good m1 map and if survivors use the extreme advantage they have over her whole ability, Sadako will lose against any well looping survivor team.
The only reason why her ability works is because you can abuse the fact that some people don’t know her counterplay, which screws over the whole team.
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Please read what I've written above. It works.
Edit: her strongest map is awful for most m1 killers. She's borderline broken on it.
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They should nerf onryo so you finally shut up.
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I‘ve read a lot of it and I know your opinion on her. It still doesn‘t change a thing about my argument and this character. She is only working because survivors either ignore her counterplay, don‘t know it or underestimate her. If survivors actually do what they are supposed to, all your stuff wouldn‘t work and you would have a completely different opinion. The only thing that makes her viable is the her noob stomper character.
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Very constructive. We are discussing her to make her better. Why not contribute?
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You're wasting your time. Make your own asymmetrical game that is better than dbd.
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How often do I need to win then? I very rarely lost with her FOR YEARS now. A majority of people I face have comp all over their profile.
Does nobody understand the counterplay then?
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You just lost another account if the mods are clever and read this. You made it completely oblivious that your other account got banned.
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I helped to make the third iteration of Sadako happen through exactly this kind of discussion right here on the forums. I don't think I'm wasting my time.
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The only other account I have is on club penguin. 1v1 me scrub.
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So you're the dipshit who nuked sadako. Thanks for nothing, chimp.
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It doesn‘t have to do anything with winning. I just find it frustrating, that you can never use your teleport, because survivor shut TVs down at all times when they understand her. Same with condemned. They can disable it completely at all times. This just isn’t fun.
I see it in my games all of the time. When not playing much I face only people that don’t do anything to counter her. Easy win. Then sometimes I face one team, that completely nullifies any options to use all game long. I don’t enjoy completely dominating and being completely dominated depending on whether or not the survivors know how she works. The more I play her the more I get those teams and she only becomes frustrating to play. I didn’t get such teams much if I switched between killers, but if you only play her ….
I would be fine with losing all my matches if it was fun.
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Glad to help.
Nice insult mate. Keep it going.
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He will soon be gone.
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Its definitely sad to see that some people here can't behave themselves.
Anyway...
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I don‘t care about anything you say. Call me whatever you want. It doesn‘t mean anything to me.
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The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well, is just because they played bad, that's what I find so frustrating.
I don't exactly know which changes exactly needs her.. because I wish she had a "fun" chase power like Wesker, but that's just my personal opinion.
Just.. I think now doesn't feel well to play with, at least that's what I feel, because I need survs to play mistakes, I depend on map too..
Also: Doesn't have chase power, the mobility is managed by survivors, and your power which is condemn depends on map, and again, they making mistakes..
And yes you can turn them off sometimes and prevent them to shut off your tv's, but if they are coordinated, they are going to pick all the other 3 tapes they are working on.
The thing is.. I want to win because I did it well, not because they did it bad
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I always appreciate someone who takes the time to make a long post walking through everything.
I haven't played Sadako nearly as much as you, though I run a somewhat similar build (though I almost never run a consistent build). I usually put on Sloppy because slowing down those heals help, and will use Surveillance instead of Discordance (though I'll probably give it a try, I see the benefit of not kicking gens).
I ran Hex: Face the Darkness on her as more of a 'let's just throw something random on' and yeah, that's a really helpful perk.
!!! IMPORTANT: REMEMBER EACH TV YOU SHUT OFF AND EACH TV THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHUT OFF. IT REVEALS WHERE SURVIVORS ARE!!!Playing this to perfection is not easy and demands a lot of focus and concentration. Playing Sadako often stresses me out more than any other killer.I think this is a really important point. The difference between the skill floor and skill ceiling is a lot greater and more gradual on Sadako than it is some other killers. Keeping track of the TVs gives a ton of info, but it does take a lot more focus.
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What I mean is, if mmr works somewhat consistently, I should face very strong teams. I also perceive my teams as really strong due to my experience with teams that I've build over my time playing this game. The people I face are not bad by any means.
Don't take this the wrong way, but where are you while they turn your tvs off? Chasing? Then you give them the tvs for free. Sadako is not a chaser. That's why my playstyle works so well imo. I rarely chase with her. I only commit if I know I get a hit / down / stack / pallet. Then I leave. I fight for my tvs more than my gens and this keeps them on consistently.
I really need to start recording my games again don't I?
I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.
I win despite them playing good. Everyone makes mistakes. Nobody plays perfect all the time. Not me, not your survivors and DEFINITELY not comp players. Trust me, I know.
I think I know where your issue with her lies. You play her as a stealth killer and chase people. Sadako is not a chase oriented killer. She's a killer with a strategic skill ceiling that suffers from chasing. Your power gives you mobility, slowdown and lethality. You power is the tvs. Not demanifestation or invisibility mindgames. Those just help you by playing your tvs.
If you start to chase people, they will abuse that and you will lose very fast. This is why I very rarely commit to a chase with her. I dont give them power over my tvs. I fight for them.
Sadako's condemned works on almost every map. Some worse, some give you free wins (Gideon meat plant). My hardest map is probably Ormond. Even Erie isn't that hard to play as her. She is not that map dependent imo. If you, sorry this might sound harsh, just chase people, then yes. She struggles extremely hard. You try to force her to be something she's not.
Always glad to help. I love playing Sadako and want others to see how strong she can be as well. I don't mind taking the time to explain.
I think Sadako has one of the most hard to grasp skill ceilings in the game. She's easy to pick up and play, as she is indeed a noob stomper. She also seems simple on the surface, which doesn't make it any better. The aspect of a strategic skill ceiling is something only few killers have and it's a skill that dbd doesn't teach or explain at all. It's not easy to learn or master her because there is so little info about what to master in the first place. A lot of trial and error.
Pig is very similar to this. Mandy however has a decent chase power with a mechanical skill ceiling. Something Sadako lacks.
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The thing I feel with Sadako is like the team you play against have to make mistakes for you to win.. in chase, or for not picking tapes. You can't win most of the time because you did well
Same I want to win because I did well and not because my opponents lack knowledge on a killer and I want the mobility from her first version back, which they robbed her by forcing survivors to turn off TVs.
That‘s what I‘m suggesting to make her more fun for both sides again:
The thing I enjoyed the most about her:
When playing as her you had the best mobility (at the time) in the game and you felt like you were at all places at the same time. (This was sadly no longer possible since her first rework.) Also at the time the visual heart beat wasn‘t yet introduced, which made her stealth a lot better.
On the survivor side I loved how scary she was and therefore bought her. You were never certain where she exactly were and always feared her coming out of nowhere, be out of an TV next to you or just appearing behind a corner. The thing is her lullaby is almost not noticeable and without the visual heartbeat you didn‘t notice she was there until it was to late at a lot of times. This made her very different and exciting to face than a lot of other killers for me.
The major difference why I‘m still advocating for 1.0s design is, it discouraged taking tapes, which left your TVs online almost all of the match. Survivors only took tapes if they had to remove condemned or feared her coming out of an TV next to you. Since 2.0 and also in 3.0 survivors are forced to turn off TVs, which makes her unable to have this map traversal. The only real difference between 2.0 and 3.0 is that survivors who understand her can nullify her power and survivors who don’t understand her will get condemned insanely fast.
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I think this is where we disagree. Survivors can only nullify your power if you let them do it.
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I don't commit a lot on chases.. I just try to down people sometimes.. I don't play her as a stelthy killer either because I know her has lullaby and they pre run me all the time.. I just try to play for condemn but as I say they do tapes and I feel like I can't do nothing.. maybe as I said I get a hit or something but nothing else.. if they play good in maps like Macmillan for me is almost impossible to do a condemn mori.. and even less a normal down chases because if they camp pixel well in jungle gyms, average pallets, or even worse, shack, I can't do anything..
And I never played the first version, I started playing this game just when her second version come out, but yeah, I feel like the strongest version is the second one, but the best for both sides is the first one, because she had the strong iri addon, the mobility and the passive condemn.. still I think is weaker in the first version, but was the best.
I think the best killer of this game is someone like Dracula, who is strong, but also you can play against him, and if you win is because you played well, and has mobility, versatile chase power, and both chase power are fun to go against because you can dodge the dog and hellfire.
And there is killers like Billy or Singularity who are completly busted because if they are good you can't do anything against them.
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„Sadako is not a chaser“ The thing is she once was very good at chasing. Not like blight but she had one of if not the best mobility abilities. You could play her very well that way.
„I feel for you and want to help you, I just don't know if I can.“ The only thing I really need is no TV auras, being able to teleport to turned off TVs and a change to her lullaby (no longer directional or/and smaller radius).
I don‘t know if you seen my suggestion for iri tape. It basically allows you to teleport to turned off TVs and turns them on after you teleported to them, but doesn‘t spread condemned when doing so. If this addon got changed like that it would be huge or if they change current iri tape that it removes TV auras and survivors can‘t interact with them would be nice as well.
If you want to help and suggest something. A addon that solves those 3 parts is all I need or they fix those things basekit. The other things I always suggest in my feedback aren‘t needed even tho I would like them. For some reason I feel like the devs listen a lot more to you than to me and others. Mandy even responded to you directly about your critic and she normally never responds to anyone about balance things.
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Her design is problematic because she has so many gimmicks baked into one character:
-Condemn
-Teleporting
-Manifest
None of these can be particularly strong because the addition of the other two will make her too oppressive, but all three are core to her identity as a character so they can't exactly remove any of them either.
I believe this is why BHVR is so reluctant to touch her kit again, I feel like she's just one of those characters that will have to remain as a weaker killer.
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You have very good ideas. I really like that one of be able to tp to turn off tv's, as an iri, (even if obviously they don't inflict condemn, the ones turned off I mean) because it's a disgrace that her iri addon is the meme one because disables your power..
I think only with that her could be pretty good honestly.
I have many ideas too, but I feel like they make her too opressive: Such as passive condemn, destroy the tape with a hit like the second version, but maybe without giving them stacks (or at least one) and of course bring back the "long" animation to take and deliver tapes so survivors can't deliver them that easy.. this way her could be more balanced without the need of a rework
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No. She wasn't a good chaser back then. She never was. She had mobility yes. But mobility = strong chase. If blight could not attack after a rush he would be similar to what sadako was back then. Sadako still has one of the best mobility powers in the game. You just have to fight for it compared to her first iteration, where condemned was so weak that survivors generally ignored tvs alltogether. Now that condemned is strong, survivors can't ignore tvs. Thats logical to me.
The auras I can get by…
TP to a TV that is turned off? Yes with a drawback though. If you TP to a turned off TV, NOTHING spreads condemned. Not the tv you TP'd to and no other turned on TV. Everything else would be too much. If that's the payoff, then, yes. That would be a good change imo. Not too strong but helpful.
IRI tape was so dumb back then because it enabled to constantly spread condemn without much counter. That's why I'm against it ever making a return. It was way too strong.
I always try to be fair for both sides. Dbd is a pvp game. Therefore things need to be seen from both sides when something changes. Sadako is a very difficult killer to balance due to condemned. Small changes can, similar to good piggy, make her too strong or too weak.
I think your idea: you can TP to a TV that is turned off but spread no condemned whatsoever in the process is an ok idea that would need to be tested though. I might be wrong and it could be too strong if made basekit. But as an iri addon? Definitely fine by me and 100% worth to be tested.
Sadly we have not seen massive changes to her addons ever since she came out, soooo.... I dont get my hopes up.
Edit: I personally still want the tape insertion time to be reset to what it was. Being able to interrupt tape inserts was a good thing and a fair thing.
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I agree - her tapes needs to be more punishable. Ring drawing base kit. Addons need reworked.
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Agree in everything here, Sadako needs to interrumps delivering tapes and the mobility with iri addon with tv's turned off.
Those ones are minor changes that maybe will make huge differences 🙂
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While she's not in a good state, she does not need another rework (for like the third time)
What sadako needs are buffs from her kit and find ways to make tapes more of a risk factor
Like make old newspaper and bloody fingernails fully base kit, make her manifest immune to stuns for a few seconds etc.
And my personal idea of making tapes less punishing on sadako and more punishing to survivors, when a survivors takes damage while holding a tape, that said tape is destroyed but does not give you condemn
While I wasn't a fan of sadako 2.0, tapes getting destroyed was a nice risk factor for survivors especially if you're trying to turn it off right in front of her, so I wouldn't complain if this was brought back but in much weaker form
To me as someone that loves playing her, I just don't think reworking her again is a smart idea, sadako 2.0 was honestly the worst thing thats happened to her and it's honestly best to keep what she has as is and find idea of buffing her
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Either make ring drawing basekit or make tapes get destroyed when a survivor takes damage but it doesn't give you condemn
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Besides of buffs which is a great idea, I'd like her condemn to be more like with a skill with your chase power, like, you condemn them at the time you chase them, so it would be a more fun way to play her, and everything will be on you, and not on survivors controlling your power, and they way they do which is an absurd easy way to do it.
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For me she was a good and fun chaser back then. I don‘t need a killer with a huge anti loop power to consider her that way. She made up for that with her mobility for me and if you played her well she was very strong that way with iri tape.
About the tp to turned off TVs. Like you said, I wouldn‘t want her to spread condemned there as well, but I would make the TV you teleported to turn back on afterwards, so it gives a little benefit to condemned. I don‘t think this is too much, however I wouldn‘t need the last Part.
I don‘t agree with you about old old iri tape like we discussed in the past. It was great for mobility and they could have kept it for mobility by making it worthless for condemned. There is no reason not to do that and it was definitely not too strong in her first version. You can argue about it making a way too big difference between playing that addon and not playing it back then, but that could have been solved by making it partially basekik. Strength wise it was fair for survivors at that time.
I don‘t know why you mention you try to be fair to both sides. It is kinda implying that I‘m not doing that and I am trying do the same as you. Sure I‘m suggesting strong stuff, but I‘m not suggesting anything unfair.
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Thanks for the nice words. It means a lot here on the forums.
Passive condemned could work on the current version, but it would have to be a lot less effective than in her first version. It would need a to apply condemned very slowly and only after a long time, otherwise it would just be unfair and survivors would get punished whatever they do.
Destroy tapes without giving them condemned is fine too. It giving condemned in 2.0 was just unhealthy and gave survivors no real counterplay.
@Skitten56 always suggested to remove TV auras when they hold a tape. This would nice, however, I still think survivors shouldn‘t see TV auras (except the one where they need to put their tape).
@radiantHero23 also suggested making delivering tapes take longer like you. Agree with both of you. 1 second is too short. It was 2 seconds before they changed it. 1.5 or 2 seconds would both be fine to me. If they change that they should also apply the same time to turning off TVs, which currently is 0,5 seconds.
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I was responding to why moderators are sometimes replying to my suggestions. Many peoples suggestions are drastic and very biased.
I did by no means want to imply that you are one of these people. Excuse me if I made it sound like that.
I don't think a TV should turn on after TP to it. TP has currently no cooldown (which is good) this means you could constantly TP to tvs to keep them on. That's too strong. Condemned has a cooldown that is tied to tvs being turned off. That's fair. As I mentioned before, this is an insta kill mechanic and therefore difficult to balance. Small changes like this would make a big difference imo.
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I 100% agree with that. The cooldown without Stbfl is long enough (back with 2 seconds), for the survivor to put the tape in safely.
It was only possible to prevent that at 6 stacks or higher. You need to build those stacks up. This is effort put in by the killer for a reward. Negating a tape to be inserted was often a culmination of a lot of events happening, almost all of them involving the Sadako-player playing well. This should be rewarded, not punished.
Tape insertion should be 2 seconds.
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Thanks for clarifying.
You are probably right about the turn on thing. Such things are difficult to suggest because you can‘t really know how it will play out in the game without testing.
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I agree. 😈
Or whatever else they come up with.
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My biggest issues with her are just lack of tape counter play and killer items like onryos tvs being put on spawn priority behind chests which causes a very bad distribution of them with certain chest offerings and on certain maps.
Just swap the spawn priority to put killer items before chests spawning, it’s that easy.
For tape counter play I’d prefer tape destruction on hit again since it only rewards good play. You don’t even need to give them condemn for it, that’s fine. Passive condemn is just given for free which is why I don’t like it as much. You could say the counter play is hooking for tape destruction but this makes no sense. This is forcing you to hook more than you want to be as Onryo as it defeats the point of condemning if they’re already dead on hook and it forces you into chasing, which you generally don’t want to be doing in the first place.
I generally don’t want her anti loop buffed. It’s supposed to be her weak area. I’d rather emphasize her strengths and keep her weaknesses very apparent. With that said, her phasing is STILL bugged and not lasting as long as intended.
Fingernail is too required, you can never drop it. It needs to be basekit. She also has many outdated addons that make no sense and are just bad.
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I have such mixed feelings about Sadako, my main and the reason I started playing.
I'll only speak on her current iteration though.
I think she's okay. Not too strong, but in the right hands, not too weak. While my biggest gripe with her is the fact her Iri Tape is next to useless and survivors have a huge advantage with her TVs and how easy it is to lock her down, she's a killer that HEAVILY punishes careless or inattentive survivors via early mori on down. Probably the reason she's so hard to balance around, if versions 1.0 and 2.0 are anything to go by.
Her condemned is in a strange place due to all that, as it can be oppressive if they ignore TVs or nearly irrelevant if they do. Ring Drawing addon is basically needed if you want to add more to it, and it's why I think Iri Tape is terrible because Sadako loses her biggest tool, passive slowdown via sidequests for the survivor to run about doing tapes. Though, the lock-on condemned is nice and makes it much harder on survivors to do much if they rack up too much.
Funny enough, what I find the most interesting in her kit is her manifest/demanifest because I've gotten to a point where I tend to stay demanifested until I'm ready to strike a survivor as I come out of it. At times, I time it well enough to get pallet grabs because I end up pushed into their side of the dropped pallet a millisecond or two before manifesting, then turn around and nab them. And at times, I get good intermittent visibility hits from doing so.
I think the reason I still enjoy her current version is because of the fact her TVs can give enough passive slowdown and delay to make up for her lack of real stealth or antiloop. Doesn't mean she doesn't suffer on some maps, but she does dominate on maps like Midwich or The Game due to how the TVs function.
If there were to be any changes, I'd agree ring drawing should be basekit but it could be too strong with how lock-in condemned works. Iridescent Tape needs a complete change, perhaps giving Sadako the ability to destroy tapes on hit instead of what it does (or really doesn't do) now, and perhaps a boost to her power in some way, maybe allow her to phase through breakable walls while demanifested? I'm not sure.
Oh, and have VCR hide TV Auras when not holding a tape. I want VCR mindgames again.0
