http://dbd.game/killswitch
Will MMR ever be a public stat in game to see? How does it work?
I'm genuinely curious as to know my own and how gaining it and losing it works
Best Answer
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They have gone out of their way to keep it secret, even bringing in lawyers allegedly. So… no.
17
Answers
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We all wish. It's just kills/escapes, unfortunately.
9 -
damn, thats tragic. I just want an official method of determining how hard my lobbies are going to be
1 -
Yup we all do. I believe they had a stream where they talked about this which is where they told us how it's measured but I can't remember which one it was.
2 -
no game ever had MMR visible, why would dbd have it lol
-4 -
"Unfortunately, it seems that your mmr is 1 point lower than mine, which automatically invalidates your opinion"
Every post ever if they would release mmr, which is why they (probably) will never do that.
13 -
Almost certainly not.
1: People would basically discount the opinions of those not at high MMR, much like those with hours under 4 digits can get discounted
2: Publishing MMR would make people play toward that system. MMR is there to ensure roughly equal matches, its not meant to be about how people play or what a win is.
3: It's not meant to be a precise ranking. People get upset about the idea that they can run a killer for 5 gens, die at the end, and lose MMR. It's not supposed to matter to the players though, its just supposed to be a rough number for matchmaking.
How it works to my knowledge
Kills/escapes to gain/lose MMR, hatch counts as nothing
Quick matches give less MMR, 10 minutes or over give full
Survivor MMR gain/loss is adjusted by the escapes/deaths of others. When they announced this I thought it applied to everyone, but now I generally hear people say it just means SWFs.
At a certain level the ability to gain MMR becomes very difficult (hard cap).
Killers have their own MMR, but each player also has an average MMR that applies to all their killers.
The amount you gain / lose depends on the MMR of the opponent. If you lose to someone with a much higher MMR, neither party really moves in either direction.
I've heard that their is anti-smurfing protection so that experienced players who start new accounts jump up much quicker, but I have no idea on the mechanisms of how it works
5 -
A lot gets made out of this when its really nothing. BHVR is an international corporation and almost certainly has a legal department. Someone made a claim that they had a legal right to see their MMR and encouraged others to do so. Consulting their legal department is the most obvious thing to do in that circumstance.
2 -
Yep, this will happen. And it also happened with Ranks back in the day. Even now you see people claim that they are at high MMR, despite their posts saying that they are really, really struggling with the game.
10 -
Every single competitive game has mmr visible as a "rank". IE like league with bronze, silver, plat, ect
5 -
not quite right. MMR and divisions/ranks are two separate numbers/things.
Divisions are visual representation of your achievement in terms of gameplay and it works based on whole team's performance. They are merely an attempt to somewhat translate MMR into a visible form, but in a more inaccurate way, with an intention to motivate you to play better.
MMR is a strictly hidden number used to determine your overall position on matchmaking ladder in order to give you a match with opponents near your skill level.
When you queue for ranked in League, your MMR is the number used for determining who you will play against, not your rank. Also, there is also MMR for normal matches that is separate from MMR for ranked matches, which means there are rank, normal MMR and ranked MMR.
2 -
I think you're being too literal on "mmr".
Yes, the ranks are not exactly your mmr, but they are generally a representation of your mmr in a rough category. Close enough that I think it would be disingenuous to say it doesn't represent it. It is a representation of your mmr.
MMR is used to match you, not rank, yes, but rank is a representation of that mmr. I think your argument is more semantics basically.
5 -
too strict makes a difference between player with "silver" MMR playing in emerald ranks because they are boosted by another player. That's a prime example, if you are playing in emerald rank as a silver MMR player, you are almost guaranteed to have one player in opponent team that is also on that MMR level, meaning there will be two silver MMR players in emerald match purely because those two players are boosted. You can overperform in bad ranks and lose, but your MMR will go up compared to rank.
This is one of the most obvious ways to describe how MMR and rank are very different things
-4 -
World of warcraft, Gears of war, and im pretty sure Valorant does too.
2 -
MMR in Valo and WoW is hidden, idk for GoW since i haven't played it.
3 -
I forgot that it's called CR in WoW, and i also forgot that the shown ratings aren't technically MMR.
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The strictness or lack thereof of the ranks or matchmaking doesn't discredit the point that ranks are "generally speaking" your mmr representation.
2 -
They wont. It would show how bad the system and matchmaking actually works.
5 -
Counter-Strike 2 has a visible rating. While not your true MMR, it is a good visble representation of how well you are doing.
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i doubt it. Choy made a video about this and he got his fans who wanted know their MMR denied their MMR by BHVR because of legality reasons.
1 -
- It makes sense, why would you listen to people at low MMR anyway? This applies to a lot of things in irl situations as well.
- I agree with this but i don't think that this is all black and white. I genuinely think a lot of players just wanna know their MMR and know how the system works.
- Agreed. It was an extremely accurate system in the beginnning, remember when Dowsey had to sit in a queue for 4 hours as twins and when he finally got a match, he got destroyed? Game was literally unplayable during that whole time, it was literally sweat squads all the time and queues were atleast 5 minutes long.
-1 -
A little history for context on why our MMR is the way it is.
Once upon a time in 2020, the killers lobby during the old ranked system turned into this. The situation was so critical that there were even urgent messages from the developers, as the killers began to ask quite legitimate questions.
For comparison, here's what the ranked system looked like in 2018-2019.
The developers actually learned an important lesson from that story. That's why we now have no agreement and there's a war going on over who plays at what rank. Divide and conquer.
The North remembers….
2 -
- How did they get to low mmr? Did they run the killer for 5 gens and die a hero repeatedly? Did that killer keep getting SWFs sending them to bad match ups for maps? Conversely, how did someone get to high mmr? The killer tunneled their way up? That survivor be a rat letting the team do the heavy lifting? Just because someone is low mmr wouldn't make whatever they said untrue or less valid, especially when you don't know how they got this "score".
- Yet this curiosity comes with a can of downsides that simply hiding it solves.
6 -
Could this feature be set to private? Is the main reason for checking MMR to justify a win or loss at the end of the game?
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Disregard conventional metrics for performance evaluation. What we truly need is a system that tracks the average chase duration per player, segmented by role, as this would offer a far more accurate reflection of individual skill.
Traditional statistics such as kills or escapes fail to capture the nuances of gameplay proficiency. A shorter average chase time for killers and a longer one for survivors would be far more indicative of effectiveness and mastery within their respective roles.
This metric could be standardized across all survivors, given that they function identically apart from cosmetics, while remaining specific to each killer, considering the significant variance in their powers and playstyles.
-1 -
I think it would end up becoming another way people invalidate the opinions of others. There shouldn't be a "you have to be this tall to ride" for just sharing your opinions, or how people value those opinoins. Someone can have an opinon about a movie without having been to film school. Creating some kind of social class system where you have to meet certain standards in order to be heard has historically been proven many times not to be very beneficial, and very damaging. High skill doesn't always mean high insight.
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Right, but still they don't want MMR to be released, they aren't going to and so when someone makes such a claim, they can either say "fine we'll tell you" or call lawyers to say no.
2 -
i think its bad to show MMR ingame
2 -
It makes sense, why would you listen to people at low MMR anyway? This applies to a lot of things in irl situations as well.The why is their opinion matters.
If someone has a family and a job and they only get to play the game a couple of times a week, their opinion matters.
If someone is hard of hearing or has poor reflexes, their opinion matters.
If someone is a horror fan and rarely plays video games but likes DbD, their opinion matters.
And because many players at low MMR are the player who will one day be at high MMR, but only if they stick around to play the game. The success of a game requires retaining as many of your players as you can, not catering to a specific segment.
5 -
To answer your question straight up -
no it will never be public. That isn't a BHVR thing to do.
3 -
No, they won't, and there are many reasons, good and bad.
If it was shown, people would use MMR scores to be nasty to each other, and lobby dodging would be absolutely rampant. It would be an absolute mess.
They stopped showing prestige and grade in the pregame lobby for those reasons (and they barely tell us anything), anyone who things they're going to show us MMR is deluded.
People would be really upset when they see how loose/ineffective it is, but the outcry would change nothing. They can't tighten SBMM to a meaningful degree without causing a queue time apocalypse. We've seen it. There's simply nothing to be gained from it other than knowing in numerical terms how badly SBMM works.
I mean I'm also curious, but I think we all suspect the answer, and most of us suspect it doesn't really matter much anyway. And we're probably right. This game isn't just imbalanced, it's imbalance-able. Too many variables, too much RNG, too many inconsistencies.
The opinions of the people at low MMR matter because they comprise the majority of the player base. Just how much of a majority is unclear (their number is 90%, but we don't know who/how they're counting), but there's little doubt it is the solid majority.
And when you're running a business, that matters. You cater to the people who give you the most money. Whether we like it or not, basing your game balancing around the opinion of the elite few would be a cataclysmically bad idea. From a business standpoint, the opinions of 1000 weekend casuals is vastly more important than those of a relative few god-tier players.
Whether we like it or not, the 10K hour, 2000+ MMR players aren't the one keeping the lights on at BHVR, the casuals are. And if the game isn't friendly to them and they all stop playing, so does everyone.
8 -
People would be really upset when they see how loose/ineffective it is, but the outcry would change nothing. They can't tighten SBMM to a meaningful degree without causing a queue time apocalypse. We've seen it. There's simply nothing to be gained from it other than knowing in numerical terms how badly SBMM works.I mean I'm also curious, but I think we all suspect the answer, and most of us suspect it doesn't really matter much anyway. And we're probably right. This game isn't just imbalanced,it's imbalance-able.Too many variables, too much RNG, too many inconsistencies.So there are two different possibilities here that revealing MMR could cause (I might be in complete agreement with you, I'm just not sure)-
1: We see that matches are drawing people from vastly different MMRs, meaning the MMR doesn't mean much
2: We see that matches are drawing people from very similar MMR, but that other factors are more important in determining the game outcome (example: did the survivors bring the right perk setups to counter how the killer was going to play). I suspect this is true.
On the second point and the idea of the game being imbalance-able, I think a point some people miss (just speaking generally) is that BHVR is not worried about balancing each individual trial, so much as they are concerned with balancing the overall experience with variety. If you play ten games, twice its balanced, four times its in the opponent's favor, four times its in your favor, I don't think BHVR would be worried about that.
It's not the approach most games take and whether its the right approach, or whether it even works out to that degree, is really dependent on each player's taste and experience.
2 -
So would you want to balance the game for? Casual players or the veterans because if you balance it for the casuals, the veterans suffer and vice versa. A lot of my friends who played this game for years quit this game a long time ago due to BHVR's balance decisions the last year, SBMM one of the biggest reasons.
-4 -
- Escaping a trial more than you die is how you get to high MMR, the fact that you can loop the killer for 5 gens, still get sacrificed at the end and lose MMR is a flaw with the SBMM system. They should just add defeat protection from IDV or just make the sacriced survivor (running the killer for 5 gens) gain MMR at the end if the other 3 survivors escape. The MMR system as a whole would be perfect if every killer had similar powers, tiles were fair and perks didn't have that much effect on the match and maps were midsized. Kilers get more or less MMR depending on the order that the survivors are sacrificed. Patrick one of the former devs that was the head of the MMR at the time so to speak, said in of the Q and A's that the game is conducted as 4 separate 1v1's.
- Can you please explain this?
-2 -
People are already being nasty to each other as is so i don't buy that as a reason why they can't show us our MMR, it's just an escuse from BHVR not to show it because if they did, alot of people would see how bad it is. But how exactly, i am talking about a system where you can only see your own MMR, not the other survivors in your lobby. Lobby dodging is still a thing and has been a thing for years in this game and sure these issues would be exacerbated if they shown our MMR but once again only because of how it would expose how bad the MMR system really is. Prestige and grades removed to prevent lobby dodging, that is correct. I am 100 % agree with this. It's kinda crazy that the SBMM matchmaking system has alienated so many players from the game. Majority of the community didn't want SBMM but BHVR added it in anyway, I was one of the few people that actually wanted SBMM when it first was introduced because i thought it would help balance the game more but then i've realized the more balance they bring to the game is sucking the fun out of the game. I had firsthand experience with that, queue times back when their was MMR test back in the day was abysmal, there were at minimum 5-6 queues and every match was a sweatfest. I agree with this as well but my question is who do BHVR want to balance for? The veteran or the casuals because you can't balance for both and yeah at the end of the day BHVR is a company and i think a lot of us on here forget that part.
-2 -
So would you want to balance the game for? Casual players or the veterans because if you balance it for the casuals, the veterans suffer and vice versaWell, both.
So what we call balance I frequently think of as game design, but I'll use the term balance to mean both.
It's a false dichotomy to presume that its one or the other. You look at the players who play a few times a week, the ones who play everyday, the ones who are new, the ones who have put in 10,000 hours, you look at console, you look at PC.
You then try and balance the game for as many people as you can, understanding that it is inevitable that some people will be left out. Balancing games is no easy task, and balancing an asymmetrical is even harder, but if you focus on just a single group you likely have a dead game. You have to evaluate the impact of the balance issue along with the amount of players it affects.
Basically, you don't want a game element to break the game for any of your groups. Penti and MFT are good examples of this.
A lot of my friends who played this game for years quit this game a long time ago due to BHVR's balance decisions the last year, SBMM one of the biggest reasons.Lots of people quit the game all the time or go through burn out periods, but BHVR's overall player count looks to be in a very good position.
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- That doesn't change the fact that they were still in low mmr and would be disregarded. We can talk about what should or shouldn't be another time, what we want to talk about right now is why a person in low mmr should not be disregarded just because they are low on the mmr totem since there are a multitude of factors currently contributing to how you rise or fall.
- Should the devs show mmr it comes with head aches that are not here currently. It would cause people to disregard any "low mmr" player, be used as a "my mmr is so high I must be right" excuse, people would be enticed into playing into gaining mmr more (or feel pressured to depending on the person) than trying to have fun or even really enjoying themselves. Things of that nature. Meanwhile, it's currently hidden and the only real problem is the nagging curiosity of where a person is on the so called ladder.
4 -
No
People already dismiss others based on what they assume people have MMR wise.
Would just happen at a higher frequency after the fact.1 -
Arena and Rated Battleground ratings
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Its quite funny. Theyre have no doubts about downvote buttons to be part on the forum, but are reluctant to show MMR or at least a equal related rank/grade oder whatsoever. Like every game with MMr has something like this to show the other players how good their opponents or teammates were. Just bhvrt is scared of doing so for no logical reason.
2 -
Well obviously but BHVR has made it clear these last 2-3 years with all the basekit buffs they have given the survivors that they favor 1 side and literally forcing killers to play in a specific way by nerfing certain playstyles i;e Anti-camp mechanic, Shoulder The Burden, basekit BT and the upcoming changes to slugging. New players are not going to stay in DBD once they see how bad the balance is and how "unfun" certain strategies are. they are going to play for a few hours and then leave. It's not a sustainable business model especially in assymetrical multiplayer game that doesn't have that big of an audience and considering that the devs have tried to balance this game for 3-4 years now ever since SBMM was introduced but still having core issues but instead of fixing those issues they put out band-aid fixes in form of perks. It is a party game at his heart and that's what it started out as and was the intention and majority of people see it as that. Make it fun, let killers have their busted #########, let survivors have their busted #########, Release OP perks on both sides and the numbers will grow, the players that previously left will come back. The more BHVR tries to balance this game, the more people leave. The game isn't enjoyable for newcomer, they keep balancing the game around newcomers and then when balance changes comes for them to (hopefully make them stay) but it's never enough because nothing is fun anymore. The devs are partially at fault, look at every single update they release and you both sides of the commmunity just hating each other. Each update survivors hate killers more and more and vice versa. Pentimento was bad for solo queue survivors,not against teams (not just 4-man SWF's by the way) and it was killer dependant. MFT was bad for the simple fact that you were messing with movement speed, a core component of the game. The latter had more of an impact across the board unless you were an A or S-tier killer. Yeah the player count looks absolutely fine…anyway back to earth, back to reality
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- Choy literally made a whole video about this breaking down why MMR should be visible but it's not going to happen because BHVR recently called in their lawyers to protect their MMR system because it's their "intellectual property" which is false since it was stolen from a chess system called the Glicko system. 2. Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level, this can be applied to IRL situations as well.
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It's not a sustainable business model especially in assymetrical multiplayerThe game is approaching its 9th anniversary. You're saying something that has been sustainable far longer than most video games is somehow unsustainable.
The more BHVR tries to balance this game, the more people leave.Yeah the player count looks absolutely fine…anyway back to earth, back to realityYour image seems to be highlighting December, sure let's go off that, it tends to be a down month.
2024: 31.3k
2023: 31.2k
2022: 32.6k
2021: 44.6k
2020: 35.6k
2019: 23.1k
2018: 19.7k
2017: 13.6k
2016: 17.0k
That's a pretty good growth program through its first 5 years with a spike and then level off after the Covid boom.
And the 2024 December player drop is coming off three growth months for DBD, November/October/September saw pretty sizable player growth from the prior year. All data makes DbD player numbers look to be in a very healthy position, that's the reality.
Post edited by crogers271 on3 -
Licenses makes people come back to game if there were no licensed content in this game and the game would have died a long time ago. A huge chunk of the playerbase left when SBMM was implemented in the game.
-3 -
- We dont know who that is, nor do we care. None of the lawyer stuff has anything to do with people disregarding others based on mmr.
Like i said before, we are not disregarding them, they are just going to accept the fact that their view of balance at high level might not be correct since they are at low level
See…this is the kind of thing we were talking about.
3 -
New content is critical to the game, its a live service game after all, and a big license can draw lots of players, but there's nothing about SBMM that seems to have affected the numbers. DbD got a jump in March 2020 into the 30k average player count and since then they've been between 30 and 40k since. You have a few outlier months in 2021 spurred by Resident Evil, and January 2024 where they dip slightly below, but looking at the data:
1: There is no evidence the game is in trouble, player counts are solid
2: There is no evidence SBMM had any noticeable positive or negative impact on player counts.
0 -
There is no point in it as majority of "veteran" players who play sweaty enough is pretty much softcapping, which means there is just a divide between "those who tryhard" and "those who don't", individual MMR numbers doesn't really matter
0 -
Also honestly if we really want a "real" MMR, as in MMR as a team, all they need to do is simply change survivor MMR by "winning" (the amount of 3+ escapes) and "losing"(the amount of 1- escapes) instead of individual escapes
This way those who hid in corner will lose MMR, those who die heroically will increase MMR, and doesn't work against the way game works, they really need to ditch 1v1v1v1v1 #########
6 -
1: He's a content creator for DBD.
2. Actually, it would make people have to improve instead of telling them it's ok to suck and that we will tone it down until you no longer suck.
-2 -
- It's a assymetrical multiplayer game with licenses and they have no competition. It's literally a monopoly at this point. That's the biggest reason they been able to retain their audience because if there were no licensed chapter, this game would have died a long time ago. 2. i don't think anyone in the DBD community were positive about the SBMM test's when they were first introduced much less when they dropped MMR into the game, Otz, one of the biggest content creators for this game made 3 videos about this when they first dropped SBMM. Scott jund has made numerous videos about it, most recently in a video titled Top Ten Worst Decisions in Dead by Daylight History where SBMM was at number 1, Dowsey left the game partially due to SBMM and Tatariu as well.
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