Question: Is the excessive DC punishment (ban) still being enforced?
I remember a live stream where devs said there was a DC threshold algorithm that punished players for DC'ing more than a certain % of the time (I believe it was 33% but can't quite remember). However currently about 6 out of every 10 matches I have played have had 1 or more survivors DC, and at least 1 killer DC (Yes, i tallied it over the past 5 days of playing). It doesn't seem to matter which killer or map we're on either, people seem to be DC'ing just for the hell of it. Some of the times, like 1 out of every 20 matches it happens because of bugs, which i and my friends have also experienced (random kick, crash, infinite loading screen), but that can't be the sole reason everyone is DC'ing at this rate. I speculate that, due to the bugs existences however, BHVR may have ceased punishing players for excessive DC'ing until the bugs are fixed, and due to the current lack of punishment for DC'ing... unsportsmanlike players are taking advantage of it En Masse. I'm just wondering if this is really the case?
I love this game, and I'm hoping that the punishments are still being enforced, but have no evidence to support this, and no one is complaining on forums or Reddit about receiving a ban for DC'ing. The current rate players are DC'ing now has never been this common in the past for me, and it's really hurting the experience.
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It is, it's just veryyyyy lenient. Too lenient. Hence why players abuse it.
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Treat the problem, not the symptom.
Find out what elements of the game is so unfun that players will just drop out straight away.
Corn fields causing killers to dc right away?
XYZ killer/add-on?
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33% LOL! I DC every Coldwind map, so im pretty much in the clear to keep DC'ing. If you dont like it, that's too bad. Im not in charge here.
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I DC on coldwind maps nothing has ever happened lol even if something ever did I have an alt account
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I always thought it was if you DC 3 out of every 10 games you'd get punished, but the threshold seems much higher than that at the moment. Granted I wasn't playing with the same players for every match, but if the punishment threshold allows for this much leniency, then what use is it?
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My question is: is it based on a % of X number of games played, as in last 10 or whatever; or is it based on a larger scale, total games or season games even. Seems that could help understand how it works at least.
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There are fog streamers who condone DC and will be in red ranks when the stream ends then turn around next day and be back at yellow ranks, they may have an automatic system in place but unless you DC like half the amount of games you play in a season they wont ban you from what I've seen.
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May question is can they distinguish between the difference from someone that purposely DC's from someone that DC's because of game issues or net? I know on ps4 there has been a lot of dcing because of the game. It's happened to myself and a few friends.
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Unlikely. Even Blizzard has admitted that their systems are unable to tell the difference between a purposeful disconnect and someone's internet going out, thus why even your internet dropping and dropping you from a ranked match in Overwatch will result in a ban and loss of SR.
I would wager that if a company as large and wealthy as Blizzard doesn't have tech that can determine the difference, then a company like Behavior doesn't either. Especially when Blizzard even uses their own proprietary game engines that they create in-house, and Behavior just licenses Unreal.
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if they enforced the punishment, there would be no one left to play. they need to fix what is making these people dc. Legion comes to mind its really pushed DCing into the mainstream. no one wants to play against Legion, masses DC against him and will continue to do so getting Banned only hurts the game as it puts less people in the player pools. that is why they wont do a casual mode/ranked mode they do not want to diminish/split the player pool. they just need to fix the real problems that are causing the DCs. this will get even worse when dedicated servers come out. mostly due to lots of survivors using MLGA and MLGA will not work with dedicated servers.
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I feel like comparing DBD to overwatch is a bit much also and I feel that's why there isn't a current punishment for dc's tbh this game isn't fit for true competitive play.
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Might want to read that again. I wasn't comparing DbD to Overwatch. I was answering his question about a system being able to discern between an intentional DC and someone's internet dropping. I was using Overwatch as an example on why that is very unlikely, since even Blizzard is unable to make that type of determination and they run far better tech.
There was no actual DbD to Overwatch comparison. That would be an apples to oranges comparison, since they aren't even in the same genre of video game.
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Is MLGA still a thing?
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@TWiXT no one at BHVR has specifically given any numbers for how the DC banning system works, and it’s unlikely that they ever will. The system automatically calculates the bans as people play. Once a player meets the requirements for an automatic ban, they are placed on a list of players to be banned. Then every so often (period unknown), they issue the appropriate bans to those who have been on the list for an unknown period of time. They do this to prevent players from learning how the algorithm works, and thus bypass the system.
Some bans are almost immediate, like those for lagg switching, using unauthorized exploits, and changing/hacking your save file, which are handed out once the offense has been verified. If you want to know more, visit the following link for more information:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/19450/game-rules-and-report-system
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I've been doing research concerning the ban system in regards to DC's, and found the stream where they discussed it from 2 years ago ( https://youtu.be/_HMRs9HKrz0?t=2892 ). In that stream they mentioned there is a % of games you are disconnecting that gets monitored. They did not mention what % was punishable, but that it is paying attention to how often a person disconnects out of every 10 games. They also stated that they are able to tell if the disconnect was caused by a game crash, or internet loss vs. closing the game or leaving the match. Each individual player that disconnects may only be doing so 1 time per every 10 games, and I just happened to be unfortunate enough to get into those games, but I don't think that's the case due to how frequent and carefree the nature of the majority of disconnects are.
I Really did tally my games and took note of each match that had a disconnect out of 5 days of playing, because I wanted to know how bad it's become. In 60 matches tallied, 34 of those matches had 1 DC or more, which is where I got the 6 out of every 10 games average. If an average of 6 out of 10 games I play has people disconnecting, that's still 60% of the time, and if others are experiencing the same rate, then the threshold % before it gets punished is way too lenient.
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You're lucky, for me it's more like 80% of the time. No I am not enjoying the game, that's why I am here, on the forums, complaining.
Well yeah, it would be better, but it feels like there's a critical mass. It feels like they're so many. Wouldn't banning so many people 'cause even more problems?
Wouldn't it make more sense to treat the disease rather than the symptom?
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Soft bans for first offenses are short, at which point the players have received a warning that if they keep it up they will escalate their ban level. It was talked about at length in the video. That's all i'm asking for... That the system actually does SOMETHING to penalize this epidemic of DC's, but so far, there's no evidence it's dong that anymore, hence the primary question of this post. I'm not saying we should perma ban players for disconnecting 60% of the time, I'm saying they should get their soft ban/warning to knock it off. They know they're doing it for petty reasons because they can get away with it, and honestly if you were a player DC'ing 60% of the time you play, are you actually playing the game?
The "Disease" in this case is that the players can DC without repercussions, and so the "Symptom" is that they are shamelessly DC'ing for any reason they want. If the game flexed a little muscle to get this crap under control, then we'd get more enjoyment from the game.
This same crap happens all the time in other multiplayer games that are lobby and match based, and those games have adopted strict rules and penalties for this kind of behavior. This game is supposed to have a similar system in place, but it doesn't seem to be doing its job either because its too lenient or its just not working at the moment. I'm not saying the system should become as strict as games like Smite, Overwatch, DOTA 2, HotS etc where players get a 30 min ban for 1 DC that can escalate to a 1 month ban for 10 DC's, I'm just saying that 60% in DBD is excessive, and players who are doing this should get hit with a soft ban as a warning.
Message to everyone reading this comment:
We all bought this game, because we want to play it and have fun. DC'ing for petty stuff like getting spotted first by the killer, fear of losing an item, bad teammates, a players choice in map or killer, etc. Ruins the enjoyment of everyone else in the match, and doesn't help you become a better player. This is a multiplayer experience which DOES NOT entitle you to win every game, and if you take umbrage to that, then you're better off playing single-player games wherein you are entitled to win for the money you paid. Stop ruining this game for the rest of us.
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I disagree with what you said about the disease. We had DCs before, because of what you said, no repercussions. It happened all the time.
At the scale it is happening now, it's something else.
This is not the first time. As an old player I can remember at least 2 more events similar in nature but very different in scale:
- Freddy
- Nurse fatigue bug
I can't pinpoint exactly what's causing the DCs now but I am willing to bet it's a combination of:
- Ranking system (people at wrong ranks, bad teammates,etc)
- Matchmaking (waiting too long for a match that is going to be crap because of no.1)
- Constant killer buffs and survivor nerfs (boring and predictable gameplay)
- Same survivor perk meta since forever (boring)
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Increasing the punishments for DCs or making them happen sooner or whatever, really doesn't do all that much to stop a person from DC'ing. Like, that doesn't work to stop people from committing actual crimes, it's not going to work in a video game.
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Why do people dc specifically against legion? is there something im missing?
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The player itself is always the disease, because DCing is against the rules, no matter what. Do you wanna know what the symptom here is? That people DCing because other people DCing. Do you wanna know how to fix that? Activate your brain and don't DC.
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The reason people disconnect against Legion is because once Legion comes after you, there is very little you can do counter-play wise to escape from them. They also have an Overpowered add-on, and due to the deep wound mechanics, they can purposely break chase to get its timer going, and even moonwalk following your tracks to either catch you while you try to mend, or cause you to bleed out.
That in mind however, during the 60 games I played and tallied, I only played killer for 10 of those games, and survivor for the rest. I didn't use Legion because i thought it would throw off the average. Out of those 60 games, I only encountered Legion 4 times, and in 3 of those there were DC's. What that says is that killers KNOW playing as Legion will mean that people will DC against them, so for the most part killer mains are avoiding playing Legion at all.
Legion isn't the sole issue here, the issue is that people are allowed to DC whenever they want for whatever reason, without any consequences, and they are doing it in excess to the point that its killing the game.
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Legion can abuse his mechanics by just moonwalking und breaking chases with purpose until the player is in dying state. And with the addon Franks mixtape you can easy tunnel and down a survivor by just stabbing him 3 times or so.
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It does, and has been proven to do so in many other multiplayer games because people WANT to keep playing the games. Any threat that they may lose the privilege to do so because of their poor sportsmanship incentivizes them to cease their bad behavior.
There are some extreme cases of people using alt accounts, or repurchasing the game to bypass their bans (*cough* Ochido *cough*), but as long as they keep up their toxic behavior, eventually it catches up with them, and they end up wasting their time and money. Most people won't go to those extremes to keep playing just as most won't let their punishment escalate to the point where they receive a perma ban.
There's no comparison between this and "Actual Crimes" because people who commit crimes can still be a part of society (unless they get the death penalty). In games however, earning a ban means you can no longer be a part of the game or community you enjoy, and you only have yourself to blame.
Decreasing the leniency on DC's won't stop people from DC'ing at first, but after they get their first warning, we will see a dramatic drop in the frequency of it, and that will improve the enjoyment of the game for everyone.
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I agree with you that a dc penalty works in most other games.. However most other games aren't plagued with an obnoxious amount of bugs.. Every.. Single.. Patch lol
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I would think not, as I wasn't under the impression that there was a punishment for excessive dc's.
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Yeah the bugs are problematic, but for the most part they aren't game breaking, or so common that the game is unplayable or can't be enjoyed. A lot of people have shifted the blame around to things like "bugs", "Lag", "load times", etc... but lets be real. People are DC'ing because they are losing, might lose, or other petty reasons, and that is a juvenile lack of sportsmanship in a multiplayer game that other multiplayer communities and developers don't tolerate. At least they don't tolerate it as much as this games devs are currently.
When a DC penalty is applied in other games it's basically saying to the players:
"Toughen up, get in there, give it your best, and have fun"
Like a coach would before a football game. Having one player throw in the towel hurts the whole team, and if the player used an excuse like "it's too hard", "the other team's scary", or "we're gonna lose anyway" they'd get kicked off the team and blacklisted from the sport. Its the same mentality, you know what game you are playing and If you are getting into a match you're expected to play it through to the end because your team is counting on you to do your part, and If you throw the game for petty reasons and ruin it for everyone else, you deserve to get reprimanded. We are seeing now what happens when there are no penalties for this kind of behavior, and its literally killing the game.
If all players do is DC on every match they don't like in an effort to find a match they do like, then they aren't really playing the game are they? A less lenient policy for excessive DC's would put a stop to this crap, and I personally wouldn't mind if there were less of these turds around.
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Why do you even play the game if you DC against certain killers and/or maps?
You just tell everyone that you are unwilling to play the game, to learn and improve yourself.
This is a clear sign, that DBD is not a game for you.
To all those who are saying, punishing won't help. There need more incentive to play the game, are you nuts? If they don't enjoy the game they can go.
There are clearly enough players, who are enjoying the game as it is or they can voice their opinion in a constructive matter. Simply DCing and screwing everyone over is just bad.
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DAMN RIGHT!
The point of a multiplayer experience is to pit your wits, skills, and strategies against other people of varying types. If you aren't up for the challenge this entails, then you're better off playing alone in single player games, and letting the "big boys" who can take it in stride have their fun.
I mean come on, You bought a MULTIPLAYER GAME because of the challenge it presents, and the fun you can have with your friends playing it. Don't be a dick by ruining it for others just because you aren't having a good match. See it through to the end, give it your best, and if you fail: Lick your wounds, cool down, and move onto the next match. No two matches are ever alike, and that's a big part of what makes it fun.
We're really getting tired of all of this "entitlement" crap.
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Like one good CEO once said
"Banning is a failure. It means that we as developers have failed. Every ban means we lost a player"
Even permanent bans won't stop people from D/C. BHVR should tweak the core game and also give people less reasons. When someone D/C out of frustration so many times that it warrants a ban do you think he will miss the game and come back? I don't think so.
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Imo: The game needs 2 queues, ranked and casual.. Ranked for solos only.. Balance the game around solo survivors 50% escape rate or close to.
At the moment the game is balanced around top swf gameplay.. Solos are being heavily punished for it.. Game is becoming too frustrating, stale and boring for alot of solo players.. Again all imo
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@CornChip The game isn't at all balanced around top SWF gameplay. The only killer who can stand a chance against top SWF groups is Nurse. This isn't balance.
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BHVR has been tweaking the core game in every patch to address balance issues that make the game frustrating and un-enjoyable. They're not perfect, but because we love the game, we are willing to forgive a few bumps along the way and despite all of the new bugs and frustrating new changes... We know their efforts ARE improving it.
You know what else is a failure as a developer? Watching your player base go down in a fire due to toxic players ruining it for everyone else, and doing nothing about it. If you could put a stop to that toxicity by warning players to knock it off or they won't be allowed to play anymore, wouldn't you?
We're not talking about players DC'ing because the game is unplayable, broken, or un-fun. We're talking about players DC'ing because they can, for whatever reason they want, and get away with it despite how ######### it is to others. I'm not saying that people shouldn't have the right to leave a game out of frustration, I'm saying that people who make a habit of doing that excessively need a slap of reality that says "Yes, this is a multiplayer game, and obviously you aren't handling that very well, so if you want to keep playing you need to grow up a bit." I get that this game can be tough, one sided, or unfair feeling at times, but that's the nature of multiplayer games, and that doesn't give anyone the right to make the experience worse for everyone else playing by throwing the matches 6 times out of 10.
At some point a line must be drawn, or you risk losing your all of your players because they can't have any fun. Not because the game is bad, but because the other players are whiny, entitled brats screwing it up for the community. You've Seen hundreds of posts on these forums about this problem, and how frustrating it is when someone DC's in their games, have you even considered them? How many people, right now, do you think are ready drop this game soon if this is allowed to keep going? Do you think they with miss the game later and come back after that experience if the devs haven't taken any action? I don't think so either.
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I don't really ever swf but I know it's sure isn't balanced around most solo gameplay. The gap between solo and swf is far too great nowadays. Something needs to be done imo
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@TWiXT Imagine players would be allowed to dc in 10% of their games on a regular basis without having to fear getting banned. In theory, that could lead to one person dc'ing in 50% of all matches. That even would be too high.
We need a change of mentality. dc'ing is not for ending a match a player doesn't like. dc'ing is for exceptional cases like somebody else is taking the game hostage or some bug appears that you are unable to play the match (for example getting stuck in an obstacle and being unable to move).
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I get that you feel that way.. And I read your whole post.
I think it is far easier to work on the game and make it more fun for all involved than it is to fix thousands of people's behaviour.
Sure you could impose bans. I would think that bhvr is worried about how much of the playerbase it would lose. That's why I think they haven't ever removed the leave mathh button
Bhvr is a business.. And at the moment I would hazard a guess and say business isn't great.
All imo
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@CornChip Very good solos are in a better position than killers. I play mostly solo. If I get a good team, the killer can't win (Nurse and maybe Billy being the exception). Solo only feels hard because you get at least one bad teammate very often.
The thing is, you can't balance a game for bad or mediocre players. Any game has to be balanced around top gameplay.
The other issue: I agree that solo should be buffed and brought closer to SWF level. But that does also mean in consequence that killers need to get big buffs.
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Maybe not a solution but certainly a deterrent for tantrum disconnects:
- If a player dc's the character remains as an AFK "zombie" available for farming points.
- Once disconnected the player is locked out of using their specific character for the duration of the match already in play.
- If player disconnects 3 times in a 24 hour period the player is banned from play for 48 hours. (Once is misfortune, 2 is coincidence, & 3 is a pattern of behavior.)
Notice my solution monitors by the _day_ and not by the week. Heck, monitoring by the day and establishing a set daily limit may be all that's necessary.
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Agreed.. Very valid points mate
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I agree that the mentality or reason for DC's should be limited to Inability to play, Game breaking Bugs, or situations outside of the game that are beyond a players control. Those circumstances are rare however, and currently this epidemic of DC's is not happening for those reasons. I could easily deal with an allowable limit as low as 5 DC's per week before my first warning, because I tend not to DC unless for one of the aforementioned reasons anyway. I sorry if I ever come across as an ass, but I get so angry at people who defend their right to excessively DC knowing that it's killing the game.
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@CornChip "Sure you could impose bans. I would think that bhvr is worried about how much of the playerbase it would lose. That's why I think they haven't ever removed the leave mathh button
Bhvr is a business.. And at the moment I would hazard a guess and say business isn't great."
Not punishing is what Devs do since release.
No need to mention the few ridiculous ban waves that happened, it should've happened more often to be effective.
That means that they catered to the majority, asking for no punishments.
In short this :
See how well that worked for their buisness !
At this, i often get answered :
"But look, that worked well for them, this game has nearly 3 years !"
Only because this :
Keep throwing them money as their life depended of it.
And here we are after 3 years of listening to this kind of peoples (even if majority) with a buggy unbalanced mess of a game, that still feel beta-ish for so much reasons that i don't even know where to start.
Peoples who still don't see any problems with all of this should question themselves.
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@TWiXT I totally get you and you don't come across as a bad person. dc's are a big, big problem at the moment. I'd say it's one of the two biggest problems next to the matchmaking.
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I don't get what you mean with the pics of the survivors. I must have missed the meme.
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The problem with "working on the game to make it fun for all involved" is that doing so takes time. The next big mid season update isn't due for another 4 weeks at this point, and there's no guarantee that it will fix all of the gripes people have about the game. In the meantime the game is currently dying because of this DC epidemic, and if nothing puts a stop to that, then we might as well just stop playing until the game is either finally fun for all involved, or the excessive DC's are under control.
Again, I'm not saying a ban should be imposed right away for 1 DC or even 5 per week, but I believe a warning before a softban or short "Timeout" period because you are DC'ing too much would make a difference. Ideally They'd get the warning first, and if they DC again and receive a softban (even if its just for an hour), they would get a message after its lifted stating that anymore DC's in the next 24-48 hours would escalate their softban to the next level. Doesn't that sound fair? Do you think it would work to cull the frequency of DC'ers?
BHVR is a business, and taking care of their player base is as much a part of that as selling the game. If a wave of softban warnings hit, I think it would get the message across and allow them to keep their players, while also re-igniting our faith in them.
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Thats a really good point. I think a mass warning could definitely scare a few players straight without stopping them from leaving the game.
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They wouldn't be able to say they weren't warned at least. It'd also inform all the new players who were unaware of the penalties of DC'ing excessively that they devs are paying attention to these antics.
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There might be one but it doesn't seem to be working at all
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