http://dbd.game/killswitch
Phase 2 of QOL and future changes
Comments
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How many more balance changes with bad foundations and confusing intent will have to happen before yall drop balancing around purely kill rates?
Merchant was nuked from orbit because she was deemed "too strong" because of a 72%, yet the actual issues with her power could of been addressed had some testing been done and feedback filtering. The actual reasons Merchant had a high killrate was because:
- Side objective from drones, which naturally causes a higher KR from weaker survivors (look at Freddy, Sadako, and Pinheads killrates)
- Built in stealth disproportionately effecting soloq (look at Freddy, Wraith, Sadakos killrates)
- Ease to play (Pre rework pre nerf Freddy, Sadako)
- SM hate bandwagon, which was and still is also disproportionately popular among weaker survivors
Instead of addressing these issues by making her power more clear by giving more visual and audio cues to her haste, hinder, tracking, etc (you still had the red eye from her PTB to use to show a survivors position is revealed), you go directly for her strength when that was never the issue.
To this day some of the aspects you didn't fix still confuse new players and it wouldn't surprise me if even in this incredibly weak form she has one of the highest killrates. Tracking still has no timer for survivors to see, haste is even less clear as to when it activates, hindered still has no sound cue, you made her stealth better with 24m TR.
Killrates don't show these problems, can the team please reconsider using killrates at all for changes? It leads to questionable changes and leaves actual problems cough Blight cough unaddressed.
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Mmm. Although, the time taken to eliminate someone via slugging isn't really the important factor, is it? Bleeding people out is rarely the winning play.
The uneven rewards comes into play for tunnelling in a similarly funny manner. If slugging is a bad choice, tunnelling is a (comparatively) good one. Because unless it's a very co-ordinated group (and honestly, that's such a small number it's not really the consideration here), that's more likely to force misplays.
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It's a factor, and one that does matter.
And yeah, you're right. Tunnelling is comparatively a good choice, it's unbalanced enough that you can get massive rewards from comparatively little effort, that's why tunnelling is such a big problem. It's moreso than slugging because the amount of coordination and preparation needed to fully thwart tunnelling is considerably more than you'd need to thwart slugging.
The same concept sort of applies to aggressive slugging, you can get high rewards for low effort, but the contexts are a little different. Tunnelling's the bigger problem and warrants the more aggressive fix, but they both have issues.
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No hate involved. I just think that's a crazy thing for people to have complained about. I was trying to be playful :)
Also, I think I never saw that complaint before. I've seen lots of complaints about something called gen-rushing, but I think that should only be complained about if someone brings a Commodius, two charge add-ons, Stake Out, Hyperfocus, and Built to Last.
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So I must assume that the request for all these measures is based on a lie. Because if there is no tunneling, nor slugging, there would be no need to do anything.
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I mean. Surely I don't need to point out that there's a big grey area between "it doesn't exist" and "a vast majority of players are doing it".
Like, say, "a noticeable minority are doing it and it's problematic when they do", for example.
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Splitting gens is kinda forced due to gen regression perks, and even then only really effective against low mobility killers. But granted, somewhat of an issue(altho there are basekit counters to it, otherwise low mobility killers wouldnt have killrates above 2.5 on average).
Splitting gens is not forced because of gen slowdowns, gen slowdowns are forced because of gen splitting. Basically the whole purpose of the most important perk to use as killer, Corrupt Intervention, is to make gen splitting more difficult.
Saboing is not something you can rely on much and requires quite a few perks and specific addons to happen more than once a game succesfully. Slugging and tunnelling does not require any of that.
This is now comparing apples and oranges in terms of resources for using a strategy. If we are going by this logic, gen splitting doesn''t require you to use any perks/addons/resources as survivor and is the most powerful survivor strategy and got even more powerful with further nerfs to gen slowdowns. If you are going to give sabo as comparison, then give it with a killer strategy that actually requires perks or addons to be executed.
I would be 10000x more okay with tunnelling and slugging if it actively relied on perks to be consistently viable, but its not. It's basekit.
as i already said, splitting gens is also basekit, but compared to tunneling, it's absolutely necessary to bring Corrupt Intervention as 99% of killers to stand a chance against competent team.
Tunneling is already 50/50 hit or miss when playing significant portion of killers when survivor has no anti-tunneling perks at all. Tunneling requires survivors to make big mistakes to be executed successfully, splitting gens doesn't require killer to make just one small mistake in first chase.
Anti-camp isnt strong, anti-tunnelling isnt strong, anti-slugging isnt strong, otherwise camping, tunnelling and slugging wouldnt be an issue, now would it?
Anti-camp is overwhelmingly strong, anti-tunneling is overwhelmingly strong, anti-slugging is very strong in competent teams.
Now, if you want to talk about how "problematic camping, tunneling and slugging is", why don't you take a deeper look at it. Primary counter to tunneling is being good in chases. With the average chase time of 60s per WHOLE MATCH, not per single chase, how would you even expect people to counter tunneling.
It's the prime example of how average survivor player doesn't want to learn how to counter killer strategies at all, they just want further anti anti anti mechanics and basekit perks to be slapped until they wouldn't need to give any skill input towards the game.
And hooking is more viable than ever in DBD history, wdym? The issue is that people like you just hook willy-nilly on the closest hook whenever you hook. Go take strategic hooks, go that extra 5 second time investment so survivors are forced to hooktrade or end up multiple people injured.
First of all, survivor is the one controlling the direction of the chase in most cases (unless we are talking about Brutal zoning Blight, Kaneki or edge map chases, but those are 50/50s in terms of chance of killer to redirect the chase). If survivor is aware they are about to go down, they will intentionally force you to down them at a spot where you CAN'T get a beneficial/strategical hook. You are talking as if strategic hooking is so simple and easy when it's the thing that is simply induced by survivor mistakes.
Also, take a look at how many meta survivor perks have hooks as condition to be activated and then think a bit more about it.
"all of these strats are meta cus average player doesnt learn counterplay"
Except the same can be true of anti-camp(which only works if you camp), anti-tunnel(which only works if you tunnel) and anti-slug(which only works if you slug). Not even talking about how if tunnelling is not viable unless as a last resort, anti-tunnel perks will also be basically non-existant in use. Right now they are top 10 because of how viable tunnelling is as a normal strat
anti-facecamp is only meant to prevent toxic usage of camping, not camping as a strategy. Anti-camp perks literally work both if you camp or you don't camp (they also work as an anti-tunnel because hooked survivor is "frozen" and killer can't attempt to tunnel them unless they are unhooked, meaning greeding survivor on hook can often give you big advantage even when killer isn't camping.
Anti-tunneling works only if you tunnel? Really? After so many years of discussions being held about aggressive usage of anti-tunneling perks, we are still using the good ol' "just don't tunnel" as a defense for how strong anti-tunneling perks outside of actual tunneling are?
Anti-slug also works in order to force lose-lose situations when in combo with some perks + with some combos you can literally pick up a survivor killer has basically just downed.
I actually truly recommend you to watch some actual high skill level matches, scrims with no limitations or whatever you want just to be aware o how stuff you are trying to present as mid is actually strong and how this game is much more deeper in terms of decision-making, balance problems and various other stuff than you think :)
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What was implied with gen-splitting, is that it is by far the most effective way to gen-rush, since you split the progress to three simultaneous gens, while one survivor runs the killer around.
If done correctly, you could end up with a match that takes less than 3 minutes.
Hens and some other strong survivor players (I believe it was a part of Team Eternal) tried this as a speedrun tactic, in which they managed to get one survivor out in less than 2 minutes and 35 seconds.
In the video, watch from 22:37 to see the tactic on full display.Bear in mind that this is not common at all, but still, some people on the forums has been complaining a lot about splitting gens is in fact becoming more common as a strategy used by survivors nowadays.
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You know, they should really give survivors a perk that encourages them to group up and work on gens together. Maybe even add a blood point bonus for team generator work to sweeten the pot.
Sounds like survivors would like it, and killers would benefit from people grouping up together. Big win all around.
I bet it would be meta.
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And Sabo and bully squads arent abusive? Survivors lose their minds when the killer does what they have to in order to win but survivors get to play however they want and if killers say anything about it, we are just evil. We cant talk about nerfing SWFs we cant talk or ask for nerfs to problematic perks, survivors even complain about completely harmless things like getting moried. When survivors get together can complain about something the devs are at your beck and call and nerf it but killers are rarely listened to with any kind of expediency. Problematic survivor perks take half a year or more to be addressed but if a killer gets released and is too strong they are nerfed within weeks. Often, The issue is not that the nerfs happen it is that the experience of killer players is being treated as less valuable than that of survivors. Many killer perks that really dont need a nerf end up getting sacrificed on the alter of "lets make things better for solo casuals" making killer that much more stressful to play against good survivors and especially SWFs, while survivors continue to get insane new perks, and the most insane perk buffs imaginable. The weaker killer perks get overall, the harder killers need to try to make up the difference, but then survivors complain about how sweaty the killer players.
We cant win no matter what we do. You get our perks nerfed, and then complain about being tunneled, camped slugged and the killer having to sweat. Every single time hook states are nerfed, and our gen regression, slowdown and chase perks are nerfed the more the killer HAS to tunnel, slug and camp in order to win. Yes, killers have allways done these things to some extent because they are efficient ways to win but ask yourself this and be honest, is slugging and tunneling getting worse than it was in years past or is it getting better? I think most people will say its definitely getting worse. Survivors have the tools to win in every single situation if played right. and the right perks are brought, Killer doesnt. Thats why at the top level comp play there are a lot of things that are just completely banned for survivor.
There are still ways to infinite loop in the game. Its just not as common as it once was.
Additionally, are you aware that there are some killers who just can't play certain loops in the game against good survivors? Good survivors are able to manipulate it so that some killers can just never get bloodlust and for killers who dont have a power that can deal with that, those loops become completely unplayable.
I think that when the devs implament the change to survivors spawning together instead of seperated it will bring with it a crazy number of complaints to the point where the devs walk it back.
Fixing things that are just blatantly game breaking are a non argument. Throwing the killer a few bones a few times a year in an endless sea of nerfs to our most relied on perks while giving us no new perks to take their place and acting like the killers have had it good as a result is not an even remotely fair or good argument to make. I feel we have been treated as second class players by the developers.
In most areas where killer has had it rough, those areas have only gotten worse. We now have allmost no good slowdown and regression perks left. . Many of our chase perks are dead with the haste and hindered changes, hex builds are now totally dead (hexes have sucked for a really long time but pentimento made running them at least kinda okay compared to the alternatives). All this and we are now getting a patch that is having the largest buffs to SWF teams I have ever seen. All 3 of the new survivor perks are outrageous in the hands of SWFs.
Survivors are literally swimming in completely insane options for perks to bring for a match and killers have been having our options reduced more and more between nerfs to perks and these anti gameplay systems they introduce and things like gen kick limits.0 -
technically I think we have 3 off the top of my head:
Friendly competition
Prove thyself
And potential energy(which isn’t technically a group up, but feels like one depending on how it’s used)
I think most prefer resi though, because gen splitting is still better for reasons. I don’t see those worms going back in that can.
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I'm mostly being insanely sarcastic tbh.
I said that people splitting up on gens was worse for the killer before the prove nerf, and nerfing that perk would just make gen rushing worse. At that time I was told I was an idiot, and it was 100% PT (and BNP) causing the problem.
Fast forward to today, and shocked Pikachu it looks like people are splitting up on gens more. Who could've seen this coming?
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Ah gotcha.
I tried to tell them the same thing about distortion(it basically worked in the killers favor when not used right)now I see all the stealth players running more annoying things than distortion ever was. What can you do though?
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Nerfing prove was a mistake. How could killers want a perk nerfed that encouraged inefficiency? I don't get it
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because all they saw was “gen speed buff” and the short sightedness made them lose sight of how beneficial it was to have multiple survivors in the same spot for pressure purposes. Kind of like how when survivors learned they could speed rush gens with resi a long time ago when killers demanded nerfs to healing, so healing got a nerf and anti healing got buffs, and well then it was not “they’re healing to quick” it turned into “they’re not healing and gens are flying” I can go on and on.
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They nerfed Prove because they didn't like the idea of perks giving BP bonuses.
Look what happened to BBQ, WGLF and Distressing to name a few.
All of which were perks that incentiviced a different playstyle, and offered a significant BP bonus.
BBQ incentiviced spreading hooks.
WGLF incentiviced going for saves and taking hits for your team.
Distressing was more a wildcard, but the larger terror radius opened up for some interesting builds.
And Prove Thyself incentiviced teamwork, with a double co-op BP bonus on gen repairing.1 -
I’m talking about when it stacked for repair speed and was nerfed, because everyone would bring it and had nothing to do with a bp bonus, but a speed bonus. Then legion came out with discordance, and survivors stopped ganging up on gens altogether. If I had to pick an exact point in time it was right here when survivors learned and the point was driven home that separation was best. This was back in like 2019.
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yea it killed me that they took away the BP stack increase from BBQ and WGLF. Honestly BBQ's BP stack for hooking each survivor for the 1st time kind of was a shadow "anti-tunnel" perk since any of us killers that use that perk wanted to get those 4 stacks and get loads of BP even if all 4 escaped. Wish they'd bring it back
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As long as 60% kill rates objective stays, any nerfs would be immediately fixed by ridiculous killers like kaneki
Such business lmao
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And Sabo and bully squads arent abusive?1: You're giving another example of a killer rulebook.
2: Bully squads are basically by definition abusive because they aren't even trying to play the game.
3: Sabo squads are another example of something BHVR has listened to killers on and made much more difficult.
Survivors lose their minds when the killer does what they have to in order to win but survivors get to play however they want and if killers say anything about it, we are just evil.But your example on the survivor side isn't even about winning, its about a bully group that intentionally is there to mess with the killer.
We cant talk about nerfing SWFs we cant talk or ask for nerfs to problematic perks, survivors even complain about completely harmless things like getting moried.You're confusing the ability to talk about things with the fact that others might disagree with your take on it.
Same is true on the other side. If someone made a post about tunneling / slugging / camping / etc there would very quickly be a killer coming into disagree. Which isn't a surprise, its a discussion forum afterall.
When survivors get together can complain about something the devs are at your beck and call and nerf it but killers are rarely listened to with any kind of expediency.And that's just simply not true. We've already shown lots of things the devs have taken action on that killers have had an issue with.
Problematic survivor perks take half a year or more to be addressed but if a killer gets released and is too strong they are nerfed within weeks.Again, just not true. SM, Chucky, stayed very stronger for a long time, the majority of the recently released killers have been overall buffed since they were released (Houndmaster being the most notable).
Survivors have the tools to win in every single situation if played right. and the right perks are brought, Killer doesnt.'The right perks are brought' is the key phrase. If the killer tunnels and the survivor brings anti-tunnel, they are in great shape. If the killer slugs and they have anti-slug, again great. If the killer tunnels and they have anti-slug, well they're in a lot of trouble.
Not knowing how the killer will play is one of the biggest advantages.
Thats why at the top level comp play there are a lot of things that are just completely banned for survivor.Things have to be banned because comp is overall designed to benefit the survivors. They know who the killer is going to be, what map they'll play on, and all the perks/addons that the killer is banned from having. These are huge advantages for the survivor side.
Its also irrelevant on what they ban because comp is inherently balanced. They could play perkless Trapper and it would still be balanced because both sides play under the same conditions.
Additionally, are you aware that there are some killers who just can't play certain loops in the game against good survivors? Good survivors are able to manipulate it so that some killers can just never get bloodlust and for killers who dont have a power that can deal with that, those loops become completely unplayable.We're off topic, but three responses:
1: Survivors don't know the killer they are going to face. They can't go into a game anticipating this as a strategy.
2: Killers have perks too. If you're playing a killer weak against loops like this you can easily choose a perk to make up for that weakness.
3: The killer never has to chase a survivor to an area. There are other survivors to pursue, gens to defend, etc. I never like to talk about 'good' survivors, but if we are, 'good' killers don't let themselves get stuck in this situation.
I feel we have been treated as second class players by the developers.You can feel however you want, but its not much grounds for a discussion.
Survivors are literally swimming in completely insane options for perks to bring for a match and killers have been having our options reduced more and more between nerfs to perks and these anti gameplay systems they introduce and things like gen kick limits.So this basically sums up things I've been saying, but to reiterate:
Survivors have lots of good situational options, but they have no idea what situation they will be in. Killer 'options' have been ever so slightly been reduced to try and encourage more varied playstyles. Things like the 3 gen kicking (which when it was changed came with an overall buff to killers despite arguments it was somehow anti-killer change) where meant to take away from the idea that a killer could just lock into a strategy ahead of time and the survivors only chance was if they had anticipated the right build.
Edit to add:
Many of our chase perks are dead with the haste and hindered changesStopping haste from being stacked has been a killer request for quite some time, but you're only looking at how it impacts killers.
Post edited by crogers271 on5 -
I think with regards to gen splitting and Prove Thyself; splitting is stronger early game when there are more gens left but Prove let survivors smash out the last gen or 2 really quick.
Even with someone out the game by that point if everyone had Prove they could often complete a gen in the killers face no matter how efficient a chase is against a survivor especially with a lot of the killer roster.When paired with Deja Vu and sometimes toolboxes it made the last gen’s feel hard to pressure due to the speed they can be done and the regression limit. If you don’t commit to a chase and push them off gens they can infinitely reset and heal, and if you do commit the gen speed can be so fast you're losing a gen which will often leave the remaining gen’s too far apart to stop because of the travel time between them.
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There's no reason to already start asking for killer buffs when we still have no clue how BHVR plans on addressing these issues. We already got base kit anti-tunneling and anti-camping changes in the past in the form of basekit Borrowed Time and anti-camp meter and we already know that those changes did nothing to change the crazy amount of tunneling and camping survivors go against.
When it comes to slugging, we already know that BHVR won't give us basekit Unbreakable which would be the only viable way to fix slugging (other than basekit We're Gonna Live Forever and Made For This which is also not happening), so there's definitely no need to panic if you enjoy slugging that much.
The reality is that those playstyles are unhealthy for the game . People can swear up and down they are legit strats, but if only one out of five people is having fun in a match, that's just bad game design. One person should not have the power to make four people miserable in the match that they are playing. On top of that, the vast majority of the killers are more than viable enough to win the majority of their matches without these strats and if the changes end up being actually impactful, it will force many killer mains to finally develop enough skill to win matches without making others suffer in the matches against them.
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The only thing basekit borrowed time did was make survivors who just got off hook body block the unhooker with the endurance effect when the killer is trying not to tunnel, then when they go down they have DS, then they complain about being tunneled
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Same goes for BBQ tbh. Getting rid of BP incentives that promoted fair play was extremely backwards.
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Thanks for popping in. 😁
I'll just say this: there are killers that do camp, tunnel or slug out of a necessity to apply pressure to survivors and they do that to avoid or stop a current gen rush in the match. Gen rush for survs and camp, tunnel and slug for killers. As soon as these major flaws are eradicated this game will be MUCH MORE fun for both sides.😁-3 -
That's interesting. Splitting gens has been my default for quite some time. That way if the gen is targeted by the killer, only one survivor gets disrupted, while overall gen speed is also higher. I only break that rule at the start of a match to knock out a center gen. I just assumed most people would want to do that... although I've definitely abandoned a gen before because a teammate got on it with me, but with no teamwork perks.
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I was always more into teamwork, but I found that once you split up on the first 3 gens, while having one teammate who can distract the killer for long enough, you get a lot of progress done around the map.
Any remaining gens, two survivors will then split up on, or use teamwork to hammer out a gen that might be in a strong position for the killer to defend, while the third is providing aid for the survivor being chased, by either serving as a distraction, or buying the chased more time, before meeting up with the gen jockeys again to reset.
At least that seems to be the best tactic.
This does not work well in SoloQ though.1 -
So you still refuse to make a fair game for everyone.
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And thats why slugging is an issue and needs a nerf
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I can very easily contradict your entire statement by simply saying: blood event still had a killrate higher than 50%, despite corrupt intervention and gen regression not working, despite blood gens being generally faster to finish.
Besides, Corrupt Intervention rarely shows up when I play1 -
Just curious, can you tell me where the stats are for the blood event killrates? I haven't been able to find them anywhere.
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There arent official stats, I have just been collecting data from people who, like me, enjoy keeping spreadsheets on average rates while playing the game, some I personally know, some from reddit.
We tend to have relatively accurate numbers too, as an example, in games where we had access to all steam profiles we ended up with about an 40% escaperate on soloq, 41% on duo's, 45% on 3 man and 47% on 4 man, all rounded ofcourse, but still pretty close. Since, on average, that translates to about a killrate of 63%. Which sounds odd, but is mainly due to the fact that survivors can play more games in 1 hour than killers can. If a killer plays 3 games and gets a 4k in 2 of them and a 2k in 1 of them, those same survivors could have played 5 games in which they died in only 2 of them.
During the blood event, when playing survivor, on average we found that killers got a killrate of 57% where survivors got an escaperate of about 46% on average. I personally went on vacation during most of the event, so the dataset available is smaller and thus more biased. But I wouldnt be surprised if the killrate was actually about 54% and the escaperate at 48%, which, genuinely would be quite surprising. The main reasons we saw killers lose was because they didnt know how to use hooks to their advantage, and the main reason we saw survivors lose was because they didnt know how to deal against strategic hooks. That, and slugging ofcourse. But tunnelling was punished by survivors rushing blood gens, and survivors rushing gens was punished by getting them hooked in the center of 2/3 blood gens.
I think for Reddit you would have to dig down about 40 posts of the last person posting their stats tho.2 -
Oh, okay. Thanks for the reply! And I think it's awesome that you track your games like that, thank you for sharing your results.
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that just shows how terrible average surv player is even more because you can give them easiest path to win and thay will still not be able rto get advantage of it lol
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Don't fall for the misunderstanding that kill rate is win rate. A 60% kill rate doesn't mean they win 60% of their matches.
That means the average kill rate is roughly 2.4 survivors a match. This means a 60% kill rate is sliiiiightly under getting a 3k+ every match half of the time.
If the game is balanced around each survivor having their own win condition (like it currently is), then that maths out to each survivor needing a 38.5% escape rate. This gives killers a 50% chance to win. Yes, as a survivor you personally have a smaller chance to win than a killer, but you must keep in mind the killer is facing FOUR survivors, not just you.
If the game is balanced around survivors winning and losing together (and opens up the possibility of ties), then each survivor would need a 44.2% escape rate for the killer team and survivor team to have an equal winning probability when also respecting ties.
Post edited by RpTheHotrod on-2 -
I’ll have you know I’m below average, and proud. Also my mom says I’m a winner so that’s all that matters.
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If everyone was amazing, we'd all be average.
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No, we'd all be amazing. ;)
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ah, but amazing requires a comparison to some standard. That's what makes something amazing - it's superiority over something less superior.
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LOL
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Nah, its because different strategies exist beyond full gen regression. Asian servers rarely rely on gen regression. In fact, I could very easily tell if the killer was a genregression addict like you or not depending on how they played, and they heavily contributed to the fact that the killrate was so low. They were too focussed on "oh no, losing gens so gotta tunnel and hook this person ASAP so I dont waste any more time" rather than what the people who actually did get 4k's did: spend 5 seconds extra hooking someone next to high value gens, ignore low value gens.
If any, it showed how terrible a lot of the killers were and how much they rely on soloq's lack of comms to even get any kills.0 -
Killrates are directly tied to winrates tho. Because it shows where the average is. A 50% killrate, means killers win and lose matches equally as they tie. Any killrate higher than 50% directly means that more games are won.
And a 50% killrate, doesnt mean a 50% escaperate on average either. A 50% killrate could still mean a 65% escaperate. Thats because your maths assumes that 1 killer in a match=4 survivors. While in reality, you can have greg, susan, harry and megatron face killer carl. Greg and susan dying early on within the first 5 minutes and joining the next match with pietro and mary and facing killer nicole having mary and greg die after 5 minutes, with susan escaping after an additional 5 minutes and leaving pietro behind to die. While harry and megatron lasted an additional 10 minutes.
So you have a timespan of 15 minutes, killers carl and nicole both getting 5 kills in total, greg and pietro having a 0% escaperate, susan having a 50% escaperate and the other 3 survivors having a 100% escaperate.
Doing the maths gets you a 62.5% killrate for killers, and an 58.3% escaperate for survivors.
Since there is player overlap between killers, killrates and escaperates are impossible to properly calculate. You can have a 50% escaperate for survivors, and still have a 65% killrate for killers.1 -
I've said the same thing for years whenever this comes up:
If the devs don't want BP incentives tied to perks (presumably limiting perk choices) then remove them from the perks. The BP incentives that used to apply BBQ and Prove should be made base kit.
I don't see how this is in any way controversial. Particularly since both of these examples only promote play styles people want to see in the game already (killers want inefficient gens, and survivors want spread hooks).
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Kill rate doesnt mean win rate. Lets say the killer only ever got a single kill, ever, after thousands of matches. His kill rate would be 25%. That doesn't mean he wins 1 out of 4 matches on average. In fact his win rate would be 0% in this example.
My point to clarify that kill rate isn't win rate. They are two very different things. Many people see 60% kill rate means killers win a majority of the time. The reality is a 60% kill rate means roughly getting at least a 3k half of the time (it's actually slightly under that, as a 62.5% kill rate is an even 50%).
This is a game of a killer facing 4 individual opponents each with their own win condition. If there was 1 v 1, then we clearly would want a 50/50 win chance for both sides. However, the killer has 4 opponents, while the other opponents only have 1. This means those 4 must have a lower win rate to be fair. The math comes out to, if we look at the game as intended, each survivor would need a 38.5% escape rate in order for the killer to win 50% of the time (averaged). If we rejected BHVRs design and saw the game as survivors all winning/tying/losing together as a team (ie no individual wins/losses) and that at least 3 survivors must escape to count as a win, then each survivor would need a ~44% escape rate for the survivor team and killer team to have an equal winning chance (this takes ties into consideration which would be a 2k).
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In your first paragraph you point out, correctly, that a 25% kill rate might be a 0% 'win' rate. We don't know for sure what it would be without knowing the game breakdowns.
Then in the next paragraph you bring up the incorrect 62.5% kill rate argument, totally ignoring the point you made in the first paragraph about what the win rate might actually be.
It's extremely selective and the paragraphs are right next to each other. You can't guess at 'win' rates without getting into presumptions on how the game outcomes break down.
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i mean if they do they have to gut survivors a lot and buff all killers across the board massively in order to compensate but we all know bhvr will do the opposite
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How dare they play the game casually and make mistakes (SARCASM) lol
This is exactly what's driving a lot of people away from the game0 -
i think the biggest problem in this game is that it fundamentally doesn't reward improvement at all (bad matchmaking, more and more unnecessary changes that just motivate you to become worse etc.).
The only way to truly become better is to push yourself further into the scrims and tournaments (and trust me, that's the greatest fun i used to have in dbd because i was finally able to play with people who all played like a team, not throw and went for ein while everything was balanced), but that's something not part of the base game nor info available to people at all unless they dig deeper into this community.
Along with all of this comes complete lack of understanding for power of many perks, mechanics and other stuff, people act like this and this is op while other stuff is underpowered without having the slightest insight on any of it.
The one thing i also noticed is people acting like being a casual players equals to not having to improve at all and i think it was also induced by course of game development and very flawed matchmaking (and also one very popular game that gave birth to this kind of mentality: Fortnite).
Overall, i think that game would be much better if matchmaking was better, we had ranked or at least people were better informed of what scrims and tournaments in dbd are and people would generally gain much more game knowledge than they do have now.
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Okay, when I first heard you'd said this, I was like facepalming, HOWEVER now that I finally have been pointed to the entirety of your post, I feel a bit better, but with a caveat. This needs to hold true.
Please keep in mind, quality of life for the game requires both sides to feel good about it. I play killer when I am solo and survivor with friends (usually streamers that do open lobbies or my fellow secret society of Pig Mains) and if someone is going to be tunneled out of a match, it usually happens to me (in fact it did today funny enough.) That said, I think these changes don't need adjustments, they need to be scrapped. Seriously, even as someone who is regularly tunneled (and my idea of tunneling is way more lax on the killer than what you punish for here.) If I am working on a generator, the killer is not tunneling me, even if I was the last one hooked. But apparently now that's tunneling? No, its still not as far as I am concerned.
I will also add that if this patch goes through to live, I likely will stop playing killer. Whether I continue to play the game at all remains to be seen. I love this game, I really do. But these changes are not fun for killers, except the S-Tier killers that will just get better and easier with these changes.1
