http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why hasnt Kaneki seen a harder nerf?
Just a comparison of a killer that I think has some bs mechanics that I disagree with (like the basekit lightborn thing or getting killer instinct without warning survivors they are being revealed), but besides my disagreement is still balanced as a whole:
Wesker gets 3 seconds after a bound, moves less than half the distance that Kaneki does and is forced in a full straight line, no mid-bound cancelling
If he throws a survivor, its 5 seconds instead, to compensate for the fact that survivors are UNABLE TO MOVE for 2 seconds..
What does Kaneki get?
1 second, regardless that he just crossed the entire map
His Grab Attack is the longest of all, the one that lasts 3 seconds, of which survivors are UNABLE TO MOVE for roughly half that amount of time AND get hindered for 0.5 seconds.
Why hasnt the grab attack been increased to 5 seconds, like Wesker, to compensate for survivors being unable to move? Why hasnt the Retraction in where Kaneki cannot M1 been increased to 3 seconds?
At least changes surrounding the Mark would need some extra work I can understand. But turning a 1 into a 3 and a 3 into a 5 is something anyone could have done.
All minor number changes that would still make Kaneki a force to deal with, but at least he would be fair to face. Could literally be done in 5 minutes work. If Kaneki lasts like this for another month, I am almost wishing he gets a skullmerchant treatment next, just to compensate for the 2 months of absolutely unfair gameplay that people have to endure.
I rather face a 7 blink Nurse for an entire week in a row. At least that feels more fair. At least her fatique increases for each additional blink.
/rant
Comments
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Cause they still need him as a pay to win killer.
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No, most sales happen in the first month, and thats not been true for a LOT of killers. I am 100% certain its an oversight somewhere, which can happen. But im surprised they didnt listen to people begging them to increase times between an m2 and an m1, because its just objectively an unfair scenario.
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Nah, Anniversary is coming soon. It brings back a large portion of the playerbase and -surprise- they will be buying the pay to win killer with its pay to win skin.
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idk have you actually played against today's changes and have you already figured out the correct counterplay to a ghoul staring at you with his power up at a pallet or
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I have, against 5 of them, he is maybe 1% weaker, but still not as counterable. The issue is that Kaneki has a huge leniancy on hitting you with his M2, then stunlocks you and gives you hinderance while they finish their stun. If you arent stunlocked next to a tile, they will M2 to close the gap INSTANTLY and hit you before you even get the ability to vault a window. That is an issue. If Kaneki can charge at me and touch me while I start my vault, and he can hit me before my vault ends, you have a problem.
Wesker, in the exact same situation, has to wait for an additional 2 seconds.
And Kaneki doesnt even need to break pallets. He can just vault over them and hit you before you can finish your vault if you time it pretty much perfectly. The hinderance is still 50%, could have been reduced to 5%.
The Mark cooldown once the last survivor has removed the mark could have been dropped from 40 seconds to 5 seconds. Even then he could basically have infinite enraged mode, because you can definitely hit another survivor with a mark in the time that it takes for a survivor to mend+5 seconds cooldown.
All minor tweaks, would have made playing against Ghoul infinitely more fun. Now its just easy cheesy downs.-4 -
Because heavy handed nerfs tend to go overboard?
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i think at this point you are looking for the Skull Merchant treatment for Kaneki bro
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And Kaneki doesnt even need to break pallets.
Depends a lot on how the survivor plays and what kind of pallet it is. If you're not playing for the stun/playing for the drop when the power is on cooldown and using that time to position yourself so they either can't vault reliably or you have enough distance to make another loop then yeah.
The Mark cooldown once the last survivor has removed the mark could have been dropped from 40 seconds to 5 seconds. Even then he could basically have infinite enraged mode, because you can definitely hit another survivor with a mark in the time that it takes for a survivor to mend+5 seconds cooldown.
So you want enraged vaulting to be super nerfed and enraged time to be super nerfed and the token thing to remain as-is? Alright, you really do just want the Skull Merchant treatment. There's really no discussion to be had here.
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Its blatantly obvious this is the future of our newest killer addititon.
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Kaneki players worked very hard to earn it.
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I think they didn't nerf his cancel cooldown because of the increased cooldown when breaking pallets. Because that nerf makes it so survivors have a fairer chance at getting to a pallet or window before Kaneki can use his power again. I think it will need a bit of time to tell whether more nerfing is needed.
I am still more concerned about his ability to vault pallets and windows in enraged mode anyways. It seems fairer now, but still early to really tell if it's actually fair now.
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I hate playing against him, but I think the incremental approach is the best way to go about it. Keep tuning him down slightly, see where he stands after the nerfs. I wanna see how he is after this latest batch of nerfs.
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Are we supposed to not use his power? Should we just sit afk so you can feel better? It's not on the players. This is a problem with the devs. 2 times have they released a killer way too strong for their own game.
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So even after this nerf the megheads are still crying about Ghoul not being completely useless, it's obvious y'all won't be happy till he essentially becomes another Legion, good thing I predicted it and sticked to maining Dracula.
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Just because you won't be satisfied until a killer is made absolutely garbage does not mean a killer deserves to be nerfed more.
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Which i don't understand. I hear here all the time that "chase is the most fun part of dbd" and that's what this killer does. He has no zoning anti loop that "forced" Survivors to pre run like mean old knight, artist, Nemesis etc.
I think Survivors just wanna call evet6thing out pre running everything that's what it comes down to.
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Chase is the most fun part of DBD.
The problem with Kaneki is that quite often he denies chases by downing you before you can make it to anything.
It's map dependent of course, he's easier to deal with on more survivor-sided maps or maps with a lot of easily chainable tiles.
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I feel there hasn't been enough time to know about the effectiveness of the nerfs. They just came today, right?
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"Getting killer instinct without warning survivors they are being revealed"? Wesker literally only gets killer instinct when a survivor chooses to do a very specific action, so survivors ALWAYS know when they are being revealed by killer instinct, unless they are new to the game and don't know how Wesker works yet. But NO form of killer instinct tells survivors directly they are being revealed, they are supposed to figure out they are when something that can reveal them happen, like hearing Legion's TR music after a survivor suffered a deep wound or walking near a Demogorgon portal. And if a survivor hides in a locker near a Demogorgon portal and doesn't realize it, that's on them.
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Now, about Kaneki, I think the devs are going for a similar approach as they went for the Skull Merchant. Back in the old days, they used to nerf killer stuff too much and way too soon, the most infamous case being what happened to the first version of Freddy (he was already weak and got a really hard nerf in the first patch after his release just because low-rank survivors where complaining online). They would sometimes take a killer perk that seemed a little too strong and nerf every aspect of it instead of just making small tweaks. With time, they learned to be more cautious and not make huge nerfs immediatly, which is good, but sometimes they exaggerate on the caution and end up taking too long to nerf something. The Skull Merchant was the worst case of that because she had clearly an insanely problematic design, but the devs were always trying to be cautious and make small reworks on her power instead of making a big change that made her cease to be such a problem for once, which ended up being the huge nerf she received recently. But that nerf STILL sparked a lot of controversy, since it put her in a really weak spot until she gets her full rework. The controversies that massive nerfs start are probably one of the reasons they try so much to avoid doing it.
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Personally, I think they should have nerfed enraged vaults more, but they're probably going to wait and see if he's still over performing after these new changes.
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After an entire month of free hits with basically no counterplay, he can do with an entire month of nerfs being gone overboard a lil and then find a healthy average
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So are you saying all those nerfs would be reverted in a month? Or are you after revenge instead of balance?
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No, the hit recovery post-vault needs a nerf. Not his vaulting. His mark needs a nerf since its effectively permanent t3 myers levels of danger without effort.
And thats not the Skull merchant treatment, dude still has 16 meters range to injure someone with quite a large hitbox, the dude just needs to have a harder time keeping his enraged up permanently, by either keep chasing the same survivor, or find another survivor within 12 seconds. If you cant find another survivor in 12 seconds, then dont leave chase.
Right now, Kaneki's just mark someone so they can tunnel someone else out. Because them being marked means 3 launches for a guaranteed 50 seconds (10 seconds to mend, 40 seconds cooldown), which is more than enough to chase a survivor you're tunnelling early game.
Claiming thats skull merchant treatment is entitlement.
As for losing 2 stacks on pallet break, yeah, they can revert that, that honestly didnt change a thing. They could reset his charges to 1 maybe if it ends up being a problem again, but losing 2 stacks when not enraged is unwarrented.
THEN AGAIN, pallets are limited. Then all you need is a pallet breaking build and bam, massive area's where you will never lose any stacks.0 -
Its more to make Kaneki disappear for an entire month, so that he can be returned in a balanced way without people having the sour taste like they still have for Skull Merchant. Its now still early enough to do so. Nerfing him a lot right now would only mean 1 month of people talking bad about Kaneki, and the FNaF chapter is gonna bring a LOT of new people who have no clue. Then work him back, BAM instant fun but strong killer for millions of player to face and players who are salty about the first month will forget in 2 weeks due to the massive amount of positive attitude around him.
Its kinda revenge, but long term balance. And not all will be reverted, just tweaked back a lil0 -
You can choose to not cheese the power tho, yet every single kaneki purely plays to use the cheese.
And its really simple to not cheese the power, simply dont mark someone and then tunnel for an easy kill.0 -
I mean, his power is basically beyond S tier right now. He can definitely take the hit. I am going to be more surprised how much it will take before he turns unplayable.
With 99% of killers, yeah, 100% agree.
Kaneki? You can literally get his tentacle attack to fully REMOVE exhaustion from survivors, and it wouldnt do a thing against his killrate. Imagine being able to use Sprintburst twice against Kaneki within 10 seconds time at the cost of being marked and deepwounded. Wouldnt matter a thing. The fact that you can remove a debuff that even Nurse has issues with if not applied, tells you more than enough how much you can take away without it harming his viability.1 -
Yeah but, MASSIVE counterpoint:
You can get survivors to lose Exhaustion upon recieving the mark, and it wouldnt really affect Kaneki's viability at all.
Any other killer, including Nurse, would be utterly demolished if hitting a survivor would reset exhaustion.0
