http://dbd.game/killswitch
Did everyone stop playing M1 killers?
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💪🐷🐽
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Amen 🙏🐽
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I really hope i don't see your kind any time soon..I'm sure after the blood moon yall are out for blood!
You guys now are like Goku taking off the training weights
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M1 killers by true definition are killers that rely on M1 chase laws through most of the match (Pig, Wraith, Pinhead, Xeno, Clown, Oni as a huge option for discussion, Trapper, Hag, Doctor, Bubba etc.
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Someone thinking pig as an m2 killer lol thats where we are at right now
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Why'd you promote Xeno to M1 killer.
His undodgeable tail is.
I still play them, but mostly because Blight makes me annoyed and I can't put up with the experience for more than 5 games in a row.
They are fun, but they fail at being competitive, which is sad but in line with the community demands.
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That's not actually all that insane. Part of her power is a damaging special attack, by some definitions she absolutely is an M2 killer.
If she's an M1 killer, then someone like Demogorgon should also be considered an M1 killer. More realistically, you could also consider the two hybrids, since they have meaningful access to M1 and M2 attacks they'd realistically switch between.
The only way Pig being an M2 killer seems outright ridiculous is if you insist on a framing where M1 killers are weaker and M2 killers are stronger, but that's not really represented in the game right now. Pinhead, Singularity, and Spirit are unambiguously M1 killers and they're also still quite strong, one of them being either a former or current S tier depending on who you ask.
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I think its from people who see something on paper and think she constantly is in the crouch and m2 state when its not something you even use and rare can get to connect.
You have the option but you would number 1 be slower than base speed most of the round. And number 2 youll miss it most of the time as survivors can just run away when they hear the growl.
Demo plays completely different though. Dash killer that can zone, break pallets, distant hits, rather than pig where she has to crouch, lose all her speed, still has to play around pallets, and doesnt cover any distance.0 -
I wonder why no one is playing M1 killers in the patch that they just gave babysitter another colossal buff and added an AoE sprint burst perk to the game?
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That's what I'm talking about.
The only reason you'd disqualify Pig as an M2 killer is because her M2 isn't very good (though it's also not that bad these days either)… but that's not a commentary about what her power does or how it's designed, it's just commentary about how strong she is. Pig is, by some definitions, pretty unambiguously a weak M2 killer.
I'd personally call her a hybrid because of how Ambush is designed, like Demogorgon, but it is an M2 damaging power. People insist on M1 being weak and M2 being strong, but there are examples in this game of the opposite in both cases.
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He should say that then, how am I suppose to know he knows what the experienced player community refers to as an M2 killer? She has an m2 ability but its not something you're necessarily gonna be able to use
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Oh no I dont engage with the whole m1 and m2 power difference narrative. People tend to use m1 as some sort of excuse for playstyles.
Even back when sadako 2.0 was happening with afk global condemn people were trying to say "but shes just an m1 killer" as if it was fair what was happening and, rightfully nerfed.
M1s have different strengths for sure and builds too :D
Pigs m2 you usually use half the power to fake doing it, thats about as far as it gets. Ironically they needed to add more distance to it with her last update, its not enough distance or fast enough. Maybe remove the crouch requirement entirely idk…1 -
I would say Pig's a weird edge case. She has an M2 but it's weak, functioning as just another specialty M1. She has a delayed technical M2 as well, so really she has two M2s - her traps and her ambush.
I say this as someone who has started enjoying her recently, and I'm sure there's a few Pig Mains here that agree with me. The Pig is a weird hybrid, not quite M2 but not quite M1. I would personally consider her TECHNICALLY M2.3 -
but she succumbs to laws of M1 chase, has to play around pallets and doesn't have possibility use her power to go around loops, pure definition of M1 killer.
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because Xeno still falls under laws of M1 and suffers a lot against predropping.
Even Oni could lowkey be considered M1 killer because he heavily relies on M1 chases and playing around pallets to earn his power.
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This is true.
Your view is just not typical, so I asked.
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Well get ready for even less M1's because haste stacking is staying.
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Simple. M1 is pain dayo
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🔥🐽🔥
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Its not so hard. wheskers m2 does not proc franklin, So any killer that only has abilities that drop franklin is M1 per defenition, that makes pig m2.
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I literally had few people thanking me for playing dredge this month. Really makes you think
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I play a lot of non S-tier killers - dredge, vecna, legion, unknown, trapper, pig - they are not strong, against good opponents, swfs.
I am so tired of being #########-talked, tbagged about losing. People waiting at the gates to just tbag, click the flashlights and they go hard at endgame chat.
It shocks me that a lot of people are being toxic to those "bad" killers. Do they actually prefer being stomped against nurse, blight, kaneki, spirits and billys? It's the community aswell that makes people go for those strong killers. Which I think are boring, there is no challenge for me, so I avoid those.
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Know what?
This response makes me wanna play more Pig. I'm not fantastic at her but I do enjoy her style!3 -
You're absolutely right that it's the community that makes playing lower tier Killers unfun and difficult. But then… I got bored of winstreaking with my SWF or with the S tier Killers by slapping strong meta stuff on long ago, now I just play to play. Who cares about winning anymore anyway after a while? I've won enough times. I have nothing to prove. Dead by Daylight isn't a game you win, it's a game you endure and see how well you can do in.
I wish more people would join me on that. Seems a healthier way to view the game…0 -
So basically M1s are still viable and the only reason to ever play Blight or Nurse is if you really hate losing EVER EVER EVER that hard and can't stand a bad game now and again. Makes sense, rings true to my experience anyway.
I feel like if you don't ever wanna lose, and don't want to make the game harder for yourself, then just go play Mario Party with bots?
EDIT: Downvoting me does not change the FACT, the demonstrable FACT, that nobody here is getting Sweat SWFs that would be detrimental to these Killers every round, in fact I bet most of us aren't even high MMR, nor are any of us getting less than about a 60% or so Kill Rate even on these Killers. The stats and facts do not lie here. These Killers, for most applications, are just fine.Post edited by LockerLurk on-6 -
Well, we have this on both sides. There are plenty of survivors refusing to play soloQ exactly for this reason.
Why bother wasting my time and hoping match making will give me someone decent, when I can simply play SWF with people who know at least basics of the game?It's basically same mindset as people who decide to play only high tier killers.
It's not about never losing. I have lost games with Blight and didn't really mind that, because that simply means there is room to improve for me.
Same for SWF, whenever we managed to lose, it was because we made a mistake, not because we never had chance to win.
With weaker killers and soloQ, you will have games where you lose and you couldn't do anything about it and only thing you can do is accept that and go into the game expecting this outcome.
At least last year or so I play plenty of soloQ and many weaker killers, because I simply don't care anymore. That doesn't mean I can't understand the mind set of people who choose to play mostly SWF/strong killers, because I did it before. No need to be condescending about that.4 -
Join us brudda. 🔥🐽🔥
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M1 killers have been nerfed for a while, indirectly, because of perk changes like STBFL and sloppy nerf - and they would be nerfed even more with the haste changes if it went through the PTB.
Unless some good chase perk focused on M1 killers appear i don't think they will be played as before as ever again.
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It was never my intent to be condescending to be honest, I get people wanting to play really strong Killers to win more.
I just think the vast majority of players, especially long term ones, no longer cares about winning that hard, so they can make M1s stay perfectly viable. Because they are viable.
Yes, Trapper, Ghostface, Pig, etc. and weaker tier Killers are fine, viable choices that can generally win more than lose in a given round… if played correctly. Therefore, there really isn't a need to just ONLY play the upper tiers and nobody else if you know the game well enough and like weaker Killers' styles, as long as you don't mind the occasional loss that would have happened anyway. Sometimes this game is simply unfair.-1 -
Just played some Trapper rounds on RPD…
Went pretty well.
But i am not playing at high MMR.
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Why is it that people bring up STBFL in relation to M1 killers?
The bigger nerf that perk received was to no longer being able to mitigate stack loss with an M2 attack, which M1 killers definitionally don't have. The only nerf M1 killers have to care about is the slight lower of the percentage, but that nerf only brings it down to pre-6.1. numbers and the perk was still very good then.
M1 killers actually still have access to STBFL, it's hybrid and M2 killers that had it nerfed most severely.
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One of strongest chase tools they had was nerfed, even if was leveled to the strength to 6.1 patch. Having "10" stack of STBFL - it was 9 really, considering the previous 3 second of cooldown - was a strong power to help end chases quicker to killer who would not end them quickly. Also, when i think about M1 killers i think about killers like Doctor or even Clown, who although has some antiloop into his kit cannot damage with his power.
We need more killer perks focused on M1 killers or they might become more rare as the days goes by.
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That's what I'm talking about, yeah.
The perk was strong in general prior to 6.1.0, so while it's weakened a little for M1 killers, it still fundamentally does the thing it's supposed to… and that's all that changed for M1 killers. They couldn't mitigate stack loss to begin with, so they still have functionally the same perk with a very slight downgrade.
Something being nerfed doesn't automatically drop it out of viability. It's totally possible for it to still be strong afterwards, which it is.
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You know you want to. Join the church of Pig. xD
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vast majority of players, especially long term ones, no longer cares about winning that hard
I would really want to see average playtime of currently playing survivors. In DBD many long term players regularly go on breaks, so they might not be majority of players overall.
I would say the mindset I have talked about is mostly for players like 500-2000h playtime, where they got some skill and simply want it to affect results of their games.If you play to win, then it can be very stressful as a killer and let's be honest, lower tier killers are even more stressful for that, if you want to win your games. Simply because your options are limited and chance for comeback when all gens are finished are low without high mobility.
Part of the issue I would say is what many players do (I assume), when it happens that you lose and winning side let's say tried to make it worse for you (bleeding out, waiting in exit gate etc), then next game players tend to go simply tryhard more, so it won't repeat and it's unlikely to stop with just one game.
It's not a good thing to do for sure, because it's not really fault of next players, but it happens a lot.4 -
I do wish the classic M1 killers were more frequent, they are by far the most fun to play against imo
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More like you'll win for 99% of filler matches against lower MMR players, but you can't do anything in real matches against competitive players which is most fun and interesting games
You may have goofy fun like rancor perma-cloak wraith or giga slowdown pig against lower MMR players, or you may play competitively and try your best against 4 man SWFs at high MMR, I don't understand why you ridicule those players like "hate losing ever ever ever" or "just go play mario party", seems like an unneeded temper tantrum towards completely legit playstyle
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I can't win against "top tier" swf with perkless trapper therefore m1 killers are unplayable.
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You're right about all of this of course and especially that last bit, I really do think the game feels fine now for both sides as long as you stop caring about winning every single round and just play the game.
That all said? We need a lot more "sore winner" protections and not just for Killer doing things like slugging excessively and tunnelling people out word go. It needs to be addressed, the endgame teabag dances aren't cute, the noise spam isn't cute, the purposeful slug-humping ain't cute and the attempts to make the game misery for people aren't cute.
Though if you're that one Claudette I played with last night who brought us to Azarov's and then is somehow shocked, SHOCKED I tell you that the Killer tunneled me by mistake and then you when they discovered you brought the map offering and clearly not caring if they lost from that, enough to sit and whine about it in the endgame chat, then that is on you.
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Oh no! I'll only win MOST of my matches instead of ALL my matches, like in any other game how I will win most not all matches if I play decently well? Say it ain't so! LockerLurk MUST be having a widdle tanty over a valid playstyle! /s
Unnecessary insult was very unnecessary and you know it. Point to where I "had a tantrum" over people wanting to play comp, all I said was comp is kinda pointless to most people who've played long enough. Most people do not play this way, most people play the game more casually, in fact I see more experienced Survivors run goofy things like flashlights or bring zero gen control on "weak Killers" all the time because they simply do not need those things to win. They're confident in their ability 99% of the time to get that 99% of wins and ACCEPT they may lose 1% of the time. They have let go of that need to win 100% of the time, because they have realized that the more you play that comp way, the more you see you either have outgrown the game and need to go Scrim to improve (where they set the rules specifically for a reason), or that this playstyle isn't as fun as you thought so you just return to pubs where most people play. Why play a style that is more stressful and limits options to stuff you may not even enjoy playing, after all? Makes no sense - I'd rather just go play Dredge with my sensible aura build or Ghostface with an endgame build or Pig with a haste build or Chase Hag or my silly lute perk and a flashlight because that is more interesting.
I usually agree with most of your posts here dude, but I just can't agree with this one. I really don't agree that people who are competitive and bring the strongest stuff all the time are "the most fun and interesting games" either because they always all play the same builds, the same strategies, the same way - it's ALWAYS strong meta perks, strong items/addons, strong Killers, strong tactics like genrush and immediate tunnel, all the time 24/7 because these people almost always feel they a) have to win, b) have something to prove. They're actually not interesting or fun at all, they're really boring.Speaking as someone who's played that way both sides plenty often, and got bored of it enough to just go back to less meta builds and weaker Killers, it's really boring to play that way after a while. Winning all the time gets super boring. In fact my last long break from Killer came because I was winning too hard and I got bored, and also was having no fun on Survivor due to the Give-up Epidemic, because the game was pretty unbalanced for Survivors. It's just not a sustainable style that is fun for the majority of the playerbase, know what I do when I see people who want to win this hard?
I forfeit and give them the win. Because they just want to win. That's why they play that way, they just want a win and they don't care how they do it, so they throw on the obvious meta and slap people around all round to feel better about their egos. Like, no thank you, I am totally fine with that 99% of players who would rather try something interesting and unique than just be Blight and Nurse with four slowdown or a SWF with strong meta items and perks that genrushes all the time. Who actually even wants to play against super strong everything forever, this is a multiplayer game NOT a Nintendo Hard ragebait game. This isn't I Wanna Be The Guy, it's Dead by Daylight, and it's balanced FOR that 99%. If I want that experience, I'll go play Hollow Knight or Dark Souls or whatever.Just because you CAN play this way, does not mean you should. Because I mean, what else does everyone complain about here, always the same things - that 1% of super strong SWFs and super strong meta Killers, right? That's what EVERYONE in this community ALWAYS complains about - which leads me to think that 1% is abnormal, an unfun outlier. Maybe you enjoy facing those things, but it's loud and clear to the Devs and anyone with a brain that most of the community absolutely does not and would rather derank or throw when faced with them… because they aren't actually fun or interesting. They are boring.
And the Devs seem to agree, because they're not listening to complaints about this anymore and actively trying to stop MORE of this from happening. They are casualifying this game, and good on the for doing so, because this game should have always been casual. It's the community that has this weird need to make it more competitive when it really isn't.
I point out, not ridicule as you seem to believe, this style of play because it's ridiculous and absurd, on what planet should you ever win 100% of your games in an MMO setting? You can't, you shouldn't, and you don't - and perks and Killers with a HEALTHY design philosophy don't win 100% of the time, which is very intended. The Devs had said Killers should win around 60% of games, and Survivors around 40% - though it's a little closer to 50% in SWF, so even the data and balancing here refutes you. This is clearly not a comp minded game, never was, never should be, and it's not designed to be one. We even tell people to chill out in modes that are designed to be casual - unless you're telling me stuff like 2v8, Lights Out, and Chaos Shuffle is designed to cater to that 1% who just want to win real hard?
Sounds obnoxious on its face to me. I mean, why on earth would anyone want to play with that 1%? Or be that 1%? It's like trying to win 100% of your games in Fortnite.
You've encapsulated the concept I'm trying to say here exactly. People are just mad they can't slap every Survivor around 100% of the time, or every Killer around 100% of the time. When are you even seeing these top SWFs commonly anyway? I sure don't, I don't think most people do. You simply are not facing Hens and Co. or Ayrun and his SWF every round, can we please all stop it?
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If you are in high MMR then its not surprising you only get the top killers. The M1 killers just get bullied in high MMR.
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Insult others and then proceed to say "insulting is bad", telling others to "go play mariokart" but then getting mad at people who try their best, in ######### PvP game, oh wow
You are free to think comp playstyle isn't fun to play, but you aren't any better and definitely not superior to those who play with comp mindset, I can't believe how you can be so arrogant over others for mere preference like that
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It's because there are more strong killers than ever now. The amount of killers that are S tier or A tier is pretty high. Blight, Nurse, Ghoul, Billy, Spirit, Plague, Pyramid Head, Twins, Oni, Singularity, Wesker, Dracula, Houndmaster, Unknown, etc. Chances are you can find something you like from that list. If your goal is to win then why would you ever play an M1 in current DBD? M1 killers are actually stronger than they were previously due to buffs they have received and because of map nerfs. They were just phased out because Behavior made the rest of the roster so strong and took away any reason to ever play an M1 killer.
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To be fair, two of the killers on your list are M1 killers.
Spirit and Singularity only have powers to help catch up and their attack even still count as basic attacks, they're M1 killers. I think the real answer here is that - at least higher up in MMR - people broadly gravitate towards the stronger options and there are fewer-but-not-zero strong M1 killers. So, higher up, you see the list of stronger killers, and only a handful of them are M1.
Personally, I still see a lot of Legion, Ghostface, Wraith, and Myers, but I'm willing to bet my survivor MMR is only fairly middling.
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I'm willing to bet it's healthier to have that middling MMR. Mine's middling too and I see a nice variety. Very fun! I hardly ever see these uberstrong Killers. Or uberstrong SWFs for that matter.
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I definitely still have fun with my killer variety at the very least, absolutely.
Though, I imagine I see more people giving up on first hook and otherwise throwing matches by throwing tantrums, haha. I can't imagine they're raising in MMR as high as people who actually try.
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I mean, if you consider legion M1 killer, won't ghoul be same? I don't think he can down with M2 at all
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Probably, yeah. Ghoul's probably the strongest M1 killer right now. Maybe second to Spirit? But very good either way.
I guess calling Ghoul an M1 killer does somewhat test the definition, but there's not really any way around the fact that he is, his power exists to get the first hit and to catch up for the second.
Unless we create a new category for killers like Legion and Ghoul. You could probably toss Skull Merchant in there too, for killers whose powers injure but don't down. That'd be worthwhile I think, the more of those we get.
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A few of us still main killers like Myers, Pig, and Ghostface. We exist still.
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