http://dbd.game/killswitch
killer main, played 20 games as surv
what i learned confirmed a suspicion i already had from being the killer pov.
the reason survivors in solo queue suffer is not because of a communication issue, or tunneling, or camping, or anything else along those lines.
people in solo q games do not do gens consistently enough. this is a pure issue with player quality, and nerfing killer/buffing survivor isn't going to mitigate it in any meaningful way. in 16 out of the 20 games i played, at least one survivor (often more) spent upwards of 3 minutes healthy, not in chase or doing altruism, and not doing generators. they were often crouched near chase fishing for saves/fast unhooks, running away from the terror radius, or something else unproductive. every game where people consistently opted to focus on their objectives, i won. this tracks with my experience as killer- games where the survivors aggressively do gens whenever i'm in chase are usually the ones most likely to beat me, especially if i'm not playing a high tier in that game
Comments
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I've been playing a LOT of solo queue survivor recently (for both fun and challenges)
My escape rate is ridiculously high and most of my deaths are on purpose to get other people out. The reason? I do gens. I've been avoiding taking chases because the only consistent factor is myself, and I don't want to leave the objective to trash. I've just been running Weaving Spiders and a resilience build with a toolbox. Injured all game and doing just fine. Hell, I'm not even hiding or playing immersed.
So yes, I agree. It's definitely player quality if that's all it takes to win. Buffing gen speeds doesn't matter when the survivors aren't touching them to begin with
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Quality of teammates is definitively the biggest issue with solo queue. It really comes down to the non-functioning matchmaking system and the horrifically bad MMR scoring system. I will have a run of escapes with great teammates in solo, only to be rewarded with brand new player teammates in the next lobby (and no, it’s not because I got backfilled into a lobby). This happens all the time. The matchmaking system simply does not work.
When I get competent, experienced solo queue teammates, the matches are always fun, even when I lose. It’s those matches with brand new and/or downright useless teammates that really make it miserable.28 -
It's matchmaking. Like, there's no way I should still be getting team mates that hide at the hint of a terror radius. But sometimes I do.
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At least those who don't even play the game gonna take a DC penalty, which would improve solo queue quality imensely
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That's my main experience as well. The main reason solo queue matches lose has nothing to do with communication, tunneling, or camping. It's just bad players. They make poor choices, which is usually poor time efficiency. Lots of wasted time not sitting on a generator.
While communication is a massive advantage for swf, the biggest advantage is just picking your own teammates. You remove the rng of matchmaker giving you bad teammates and guarantees you get good players.
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I disagree in a way that it's not a communication issue because I've had plenty of matches where I'm doing a gen and someone else is too, but the third person isn't. I spend as much time as I can on the gen before I decide to leave and then normally when I'm half way across the map, the other person has come off their gen and then the third player has decided to unhook. If there were an 'I'll go for the unhook' emote like the mobile version had I'd like to see how that impacted gameplay.
Similarly with all the proxy camping and slugging going on at the moment, people doing gens often come off to try and help and then it can snowball from there whereas if you can be told 'don't bother they're camping' it means you can stay on gens for far longer.
So, I agree with you that survivors not doing gens is an issue, but I do think communication is an issue too.
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This ^ I even spectate the matches till then end when I’m sacrificed. When I’m getting solo queued with a competent team - the quality of match changes drastically for both sides (in a good way). Even if surv team loses entirely
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This is 100% the biggest issue I have with this game right now. Not Killers, not the tunnel slug camp stuff, not even unfair maps. Survivor teammates not doing their job.
The other day I had a Renato sit and cling to a BRAND NEW UNTOUCHED gen while my friend and I were dying on hook. Literally watched my friend go to third hook because Renato wanted to finish his Gen repair Quest more than he wanted to try and help us reset. Against a not very good Nurse.Yeah. I quit the game for the night after that.
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Yeah, kinda annoying when I often feel like I am getting killed more by my teammates than killer…
Like sorry, but I have actually managed to reach second stage (not unhooked) while I play with Kindred… That should be impossible.1 -
2v8 makes it so much more obvious how many survivors flat out refuse to do gens. With another 2v8 round starting, pay attention to how often you see this:
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How is it I can run an Oni for an excessive amount of time. Oni gives up and chases a Leon who can't even last 10 seconds. All that time squandered away. It's a joke.
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Agreed. When I play solo Q surv, I always get players as teammates that don't do the main objective at all and most of the survivors just give up instantly when the match don't go their way. But on the other side, when I play killer, I constantly play against SWF teams, that have good coms, strategy and most of the time I just lose because I don't have enough map pressure (mostly because I play M1 "honest knife to back" killers like pig and GF). Map pressure is hard to achieve because just my last game I played as Pig against 3 syringes, sprint bursters and other annoying perks.
As a side note: For the love of GOD I would give anything if even ONE TIME I could just sit back and relax playing killer, but this is impossible to do. There is no relaxing when there is nothing you can do without sweating your ass off to get hooks. This is the reason why I don't play much killer anymore, because it is just insanity. Delete the comp scene and comp mindset from this game. Jesus Christ………-1 -
because the matchmaking is intentionally bad and produces inconsistent results like this. Hens and Otzdarva have talked about this at length and even defended the matchmaking being terrible to prevent killers from getting frustrated. It's not difficult to figure out what is going on.
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Yep, this is one reason 2v8 absolutely does my head in as an exclusively solo queue player.
Not only that but people open chests constantly over doing gens… like, what is the point in doing that if you're never going to get out anyway because nobody is doing gens?!
I did enjoy previous 2v8 versions but I think I far prefer normal matches or Chaos Shuffle
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strongly disagree with this post for several reasons.
Nr1 if you are a killer player and now decided to do survivor you are getting baby mmr on survivor. And from what i can see it lasts for a good ammount of games.
Nr2 solo Q is random. like really random and you can get teams that can't loop any killer that isn't a m1 killer. Get a dracula vs your average team and the dracula has free hits all game. People just can't dodge.
Nr 3 doing gens is a good thing to say but there's context missing, are the survivors healing? is the gen blocked? is the survivor going for unhook because he doesn't know if someone else is going?
There's many reasons solo Q is bad and saying it's not because of X or Y when Several killers are extremely hard to play against and can win chases in seconds isn't right. Solo Q is hard because OF MANYYY REASONS all mixed together and one shouldn't just blame gens.
In my solo Q matches everyone does gens all the time, does it matter when killer slugs, tunnels, camps, has 3 gen regress perks like dms/grim that block gens? plus killer with mobility just winning chases in second and instantly being on a 80% gen.
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Yes and no. Team mates really are the main issue with solo queue. But it's not the only issue.
Camping and tunneling surely are an issue as well, which are both harder to counter for solo queue survivors than for swf survivors. And there sure as hell is still more information solo queue survivors should get as well, for example the anti-camp meter being shown on the hud.
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I definitely agree that there is more to solo queue being problematic than just teammates not doing gens. Balance wise as well. Tunneling and camping definitely need to be nerfed a bit more, which I hope will happen in the next updates.
I am not sure about gen regress perks though. I think matches are still winnable even if the killer uses three or more.
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Not really, if the killer has DMS + pain res + good mobility + maybe antiloop + pop/surge etc It's complete GG you would need to be really bad at killer to lose a game where you are given several mins for free.
If it's a high mmr team on comms they can deal with it. but vs solo Q? it's just a insta loss.
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I've been saying this. And the odds that we lose against are just pitiful. Like literal Eyrie of crows, Ghoul who's not that good at chasing (because me and 1 other player gave him 2 game-losing chases each), and the gens simply weren't done. What was going on? While all of that chasing was occuring, the other 2 teammates who clearly didn't know what they were doing did like half a gen's worth, collectively, OR healed each other to full. Any decent team could've done at least both. Other teams have died for equally no reason, refusing body blocks, heal techs, strong loops, everything that's available to them. They don't even bring in items, a completely free advantage, and then insist on searching chests. Like, what are you doing, man? These kinds of teammates make killers like Pig, Ghost Face, and Clown seem viable. And when that's actually the conclusion that players come to, because they don't understand how bad the survivor team is playing, of course they're gonna believe that anything above that is OP. "Wraith is OP!" Why? "Because he's fast AND has stealth!" Wow, I wonder why he's not being run in tournaments, nor the other 90% of the killer cast.
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Well, they don't need more info. If anything, the killer needs more info, because they're stuck counting hooks with coins irl. The communication that SWF on comms gets for free takes the game awareness aspect out of the survivor experience. If 2 people are on gens, and 1 hasn't been, that 1 needs to go for the unhook. If they start getting chased, then the other ones know that one of them needs to go for the unhook now. I think people are just too scared to hook trade, even though it's a time positive for the survivors assuming they're pushing gens.
An improved matchmaking system, putting survivors of similar skill level and game awareness with each other, will lead to better matches. You don't know what you're doing? Okay, you get put with teammates and a killer who also don't know what they're doing. You're really efficient? You get put with teammates and a killer who are also efficient. It should be like that, always. But some people are way too clever, so that despite their claims that they're casual or that DBD is a party game, they complain constantly about killer being OP, and don't consider better matchmaking a viable solution.
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You don't say....
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This.
But also, last time we had strict matchmaking, people complained that their Killer matches were too stressful, sweaty, and were overall miserable. This is a direct by-product of changing how MMR functions. If you want easier and less stressful games you need more inconsistent and loose matchmaking, which only serves to harm new/less experience players by throwing them in matchmaking brackets that they do not belong in OR harm more experienced players by diminishing their experience by giving them dead weight.
Keep in mind that none of this is to say that the complaints were not justified to some degree, but simply that these complaints led to matchmaking being more loose and SoloQ being made more miserable since you have no way of insuring quality teammates.
This all shows if you just check Steam profiles. I consistent face players with thousands of hours, but it is not uncommon for me to also get players with less than 500 hours either. Just earlier today I faced off against a Survivor with 32 hours in the game.
Post edited by Iron_Cutlass on6 -
I almost entirely play solo queue. I dont see what the fuss is about on it being difficult. Usually the only times I ever get sacrificed is because of deciding to do bodyblocks or risk trying to get someone hooked in the endgame. I have a ton of bp, so I'll even accept a hook trade in the endgame collapse to get the other person out of the match.
Sure, you have less communication, but we weren't supposed to have communication to begin with. Thats part of the fun, trying to work out plans with others doing their own thing.
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as a killer main I respect the trade and the way you play
you are the kind of person that is the reason I dont play to win but have fun
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No that's definitely not true. The odds might be stacked against the survivor team a bit, but there is definitely still a chance for a solo queue team to win that match. The killer doesn't have to suck for that.
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I'm the exact same way and I really hope the Devs continue to develop the game in this direction, maybe it will push the sweatlords out into scrims in customs or something…
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The main problem of solo Q is that you get teammates that are like orange cats searching for the collective braincell, regardless of your skill level.
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I think improvements to matchmaking could help alleviate differences in efficiency, because I do think survivors wasting time doing basically nothing is a huge contributor to match outcomes. Possibly the second largest, after morale (which needs to be addressed just as much, as its causing the "go next meta"').
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you’re so funny. Your statement is so on the nose.
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first of all, fun is a very subjective term and you can't just say "i play for fun" because you haven't defined what actually is fun for you.
you will never be able to push those "pub sweatlords" into scrims because people in scrims follow some balance rules, while those sweatlords want to have as much of unfair advantage over their opponents as possible.
And honestly it's kinda rude to work on pushing people who love playing to win into customs rather than balancing the game out and creating something like ranked queues. Everybody has the same rights to play pubs and game should be balanced that way.
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So many games are easily winnable but team mates make absurd mistakes or don't do gens
loop a bad killer for 3 mins looks at hud no one on gen and no gens done sigh.
Some team mates are so bad it feels like sabotage5 -
Unfortunately, I'm personally convinced this is not a "bug" in the matchmaking, it's a feature.
The way it appears to work, is that even if the matchmaker had access to an infinite supply of survivors at every MMR level, it would still deliberately choose a weak link for your team.
I also think it would try to choose a "strong link" in an attempt to balance out the MMR average, but that doesn't matter nearly as much as the person allergic to gens.
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played a lot of survivor yesterday and there were games where people don't run into boons or i was the only one doing gens but when i got games where survivors who were focused on gens we generally had 3-4 escapes even against ghoul or nurse and also killers don't snuff boons enough either
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I honestly have no idea were all this downvotes are coming from. OP is pretty much on the spot, what makes SWF so consistently brutal to face is that they do gens like clockwork and often work on gens the second you drop a chase and turn your back, while in soloQ you often got scared little kittens. But they are also singlehandedly propping up the killrates of some of the lowtier killers, who would be much furhter down if it came just to their powers and capabilities.
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I agree partially. But i do believe that having some extra info (see others perks, basekit kindred, extra info on other survivors when they are in chase or in a specific gen) would make SoloQ better without harming the game balance.
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I have played survivor matches and generally a lot of the matches that I see survivors not being able to hop on gens are usually for various reasons. Some being:
- Killer’s are getting quick downs and the cycle of stop gen→unhook→heal→find gen interrupt (or potentially go down again bc many killers like Ghoul dash back to hook or patrol hook)
- Protecting survivors who are being tunnelled
- Killers slugging
It’s not like survivors just choose not to do gens, it’s likely that they are doing other things, trying to find a gen, wasting time trying to find Hexes, healing, saving, setting up totems (blood favour, devour, ruin, plaything etc)
I think a big problem for survivors is they basically need to run the same perks to combat the same set of killer tactics, which doesn’t leave room for them to play with perks that might compliment their strengths/playstyle.
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"If there were an 'I'll go for the unhook' emote like the mobile version had I'd like to see how that impacted gameplay."
Something like this would definitely help, as more communication is always better. But even so, I find it bewildering when situations like this happen. Ever since they added the interaction icons that let you know what your teammates are doing, you can infer most of this without communicating. Let's say we have 3 people on gens, 1 on hook. One person gets off their gen. You can logically infer that they are either about to engage in a chase, or are going for an unhook. After a good 10 or so seconds you could probably tell if they have begun a chase or not.
It boggles my mind when I get off my gen to go save, no chase is going on, and then one of the other two people on gens decides they should try to save, too. How hard is it to infer one's actions based on these icons? Sure, you won't get it right 100% of the time, but I would say more often than not they are a good indicator for what's going on in the match.
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i would shake your hand if I could
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fun for me isn't winning its seeing people play together and have enjoy themselves while playing as a team against a common enemy which in this case is me
and I really love to see playstyles and perk builds evolve so I need to adapt to their adaptations
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Ignoring bro ONLY did 20 surv games.
Because games are random.
Saying surv needs to do gens to win is like saying killer needs Kills to win
What this ignores is tunnel , camping, healing, gen regress, anti loop killer, killer mobility, bad hooking , bad plans, instadowns ,stealth.
RANDOM
How AM i supposed to do gens with 2 team mates hooked and One that needs heals?
Saying solo q lose rates is due to not doing gens is honestly....
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I think the best part of threads like this is we have the same names in here, who say their matches (which are overwhelmingly soloQ) are all turbo rushed gens and they have to tunnel, but then apparently their teammates also dont do gens in soloQ?
Fun stuff.3 -
Matchmaking RNG. Worst of both worlds. Difficult time as killer, difficult time as solo. But only when it would negatively impact you.
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I'm a Dredge Main, specify which of my thousands of hands. XD
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Yeah I've said as such a few times in the past. I remember years ago my team mates actually felt like they were on my level. At some point something changed (I think it was around when they started to balance around kill rates) and my solo teams started feeling like they were based around the killer's experience level. It seems like most games will give the killer a team with at least one more experienced survivor and at least one less experienced survivor.
If the killer finds the latter first it's ggs. If they find one of the former then the team stands a chance unless the less experienced survivor/s don't pull their weight (ie those games where you run the killer for like 2-3 gens worth but a couple of your team mates haven't done anything in that time so it was all for nothing. We've all been there). I notice it when I play killer too. I can quickly gauge who falls into which category and play accordingly (I take pity on the least experienced one because killing someone in a lower MMR bracket won't really affect my own MMR so it's whatever).
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If that is true, it may well get worse until a Survivor becomes really good, and then only gets top tier Killers and top tier Survivors.
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as a fellow dreddredge main I must say
horse tastes great
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It's true but even moreso in 1v4. Without such, however, there would be very little variety in gameplay. Killers would get one to two kills Max if survivors just did gens. Gameplay would become very stale, so be grateful for the boneheads.
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And this is exactly why "but Good Survivors though!" is always a moot argument.
95% of Survivors play like utter boneheads and all the actual good ones are up facing Blight, Nurse, Kaneki, Wesker on repeat and nobody else.Post edited by LockerLurk on1 -
The thing is, judging by the stats, this isn't true. According to official statistics, those 4-man swiffer teams, while stronger than solos in high MMR, are still not winning most of their matches. If it were down to random matchmaking, we wouldn't be seeing these figures. Survivors are legitimately underpowered.
Random matchmaking doesn't help, of course, but to state that it's -the- reason goes against what the stats point out and just feels like an extension of the 'survivors win = survivors OP, killers win = survivors bad' forum killer adage.
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