I can’t stand The Ghoul. Genuinely.
I thought I hated legion and Wesker but the ghoul is quickly making his way to the top.
The instant hits right out of a leap need to go. Cancelling your power mid leap shouldn’t be a thing.
Comments
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I think The Ghoul is kind of a design failure to be honest.
He’s one of those killers that’s doomed to be unfun for one side regardless of how they tweak the balance.
Either he’s allowed to get free injuries to make up for the fact that his power can’t directly down (much like Legion). And in doing so is very frustrating for survivors.
Or they drastically reduce his ability to get free injuries to make him funner to play against but in doing so he’s going to be frustrating to play since his power can’t down.
The only way to make him good for both sides would be to rework. But then they’re alienating the people who like him as he his.
So it’s a lose-lose-lose.
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I agree. I can't be bothered when I see him as the killer. The nerfs helped sure, but they nerfed the wrong stuff. I have several videos like this where I can't even make the pallet because of the insta hits. I have videos where the pallet is WAY closer and I STILL can't make.
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Balance aside, I also find him kind of overstimulating to play against. Really this is just a personal gripe but the constant yelling is so annoying to me.
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I agree with that too. The only thing I do love about him is his looks, and his terror radius music. The mori is cool too.
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Oh his music and mori are incredible. It’s a huge shame I don’t really like the power :/
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I feel ya. I really wanted to like him. I truly did, but holy. I really hate to be that guy but I will be going next when I see him. At least until the Go Next Prevention comes out. I never do that nor like to, but I just cant.
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The only way to make him good for both sides would be to rework. But then they’re alienating the people who like him as he his.
Unfortunately, my friend, I am certain that is never taken into consideration.
Wish I didn't speak from experience.
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that wasn't an instant hit you literally ran to a dead zone and blamed ghoul
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That was your fault, what is that pathing? You ran past shack window and left gallows pallet, expecting to last when you didn't know there wasn't any resources mid map?
He also did not do either of what you said Ghoul can do (not insta hitting, since you had distance from his landing point and he didn't end power mid leap, otherwise he would've slid)
Troll post
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I ran through shack and was headed towards the cart pallet in front of main. That was the only resource in that area. No other pallets generated in that area other than shack which was used.
Oh okay sorry not instant. I had 0.25 seconds of time. What was I suppose to do? It doesn't change the fact I cant stand him. It wont change the fact that he is frustrating to go against for survivors. His design stinks.
Post edited by MechWarrior3 on16 -
Used the pallet at gallows I thought the other survivor was going to use? I didn't bother to throw it because of that.
Still doesn't change the fact he can hit you instantly out of power. Troll Response honestly.
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why didn't you just use shack window instead and then run to a safe loop like the buildings or ran to that pallet afterwards
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Gallows pallet was still up, granted your teammate went down under the pallet, thats misplay by them for not splitting up and maybe dying edge 11 instead of beside you.
He cannot instantly hit you, theres a 1.5 second window post ending power that prevents him from performing any action. Unless you mean hitting the second hes capable of doing so (after a whole 1.5 seconds) then yeah, i guess in your mind hes instantly hitting.
The least you can do before complaining about a killer is to realize this one has counterplay. Its not like Blight, Oni or Nurse, you can actually cut their distance or catch up power entirely if you just double back on leaps when you know hes gonna slide away from your shack vault for example. You could've lasted a whole lot longer if you played shack and gallows, but you didn't.
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So what was the point of the clip? What you had an issue with multiple other killers could have taken advantage of to very similar degrees of success purely from your pathing.
Even if you couldn't cancel power mid leap he still would have got you before you reached the pallet in front of saloon.-14 -
Blight and Oni are easy to loop. Nurse is beyond stupid. I rarely EVER complain about a killer. Literally.
There is no time or space before he can just whack you again.
Just like here. Downed instantly. Couldn’t even make the pallet that is literally right there.
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Yea I mean kaneki is getting 2 downs here.
Shack was thrown, and you are on the window side against Kaneki. Shack window isnt an option;would be a nonstarter of an idea. People who are saying to use shack window are not saying anything genuine here.
Plus you arent making any distance against the slug even if you do this. You are just delaying a 2 down, in the same area.
You played the only thing you realistically had. You didnt do anything wrong here.
Outside of giga delay aginst kaneki on top of the slug. Which would be pure 50/50 rng on that weak pallet, or that dumb window idea people are using, you are just dead.
None of these responses were genuine to you which is unfortunate @MechWarrior3.
Yea totally agree. What needs to happen with the top tier killers is their main issues that … were not touched.
Main issues with the top tier killers:
1) Too much distance
2) No reasonable cooldowns
Kaneki has an added one.
3) A free first hit.22 -
Shack window was not safe to use at all. He broke the door down and the pallet was gone at shack. I wouldn't even have been able to make it to gallows pallet from where he was.
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I miss original Freddy terribly </3
Way more unique than what we have now.
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Multiple other killers, aren't The Ghoul. His ability to get free hits is awful. I woulnd't even have been injured had he not used his tentacles to wrap around a wall I was completely hidden by cover with. We can start there as well.
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it's not as safe as a normal shack but it's still an option than nothing also if i were in that position i would've vaulted shack window either ran back to the gallows or went towards the saloon buildings since he's a m1 killer at chained loops
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THANK YOU! I am being completely honest and reasonable. Am I perfect at looping? No. Am I pretty damn good at it? Yes. I am an ever better killer but good lord. Ghoul sucks. Exactly. I didn't even talk about the other 2 points.
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Its a terrible option. I would have went down even faster. Lets be so for real. You never would have made it back to the gallows with Ghouls current position and you're lucky if you would have made it to the Saloon Buildings if I couldn't even reach the pallet in front of main outside of shack.
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If you did anything with that window against Kaneki in this situation, it would be 100% on the Kaneki's skill if they dont just down you at shack. You dont 50/50 shack short side in this video. Youd either vault right into him, or hed just wait and then chase you round, the doors even open for him.
This isnt an option.
And youll just be slugged next to his other slug.
Grats, now the killer has an easier time with his 2 downs.12 -
so instead of using the tools you have available at the time which was shack window you would cut your losses and run to a dead zone like op?
i'd at least try because kaneki might make enough of a mistake to let me run to a pallet but he decided to run to a pallet that was too far and got punished
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i would've because i would've used shack window first it's an option that isn't run to an immediate deadzone
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Without power cancel he's just a slightly better legion. He needs the cancel
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You would have went down even faster than I did.
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Slightly is a far understatement.
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What? Shack window itself is a deadzone in this situation so I dont know what you are on about with "deadzones" here.
Plus there is another slugged teammate nearby.
So its more like a "get away from this zone"
Just because there is a window in the vicinity in chase, doesnt mean you should use it. Thats how you get WOO brain plays from low MMR/skilled survivors.
You arent thinking macro or team with your window idea here. Theres no way you use it here. Its an unsafe window.
"use tools around you"
Yea the right tools. The shack window is not one of those tools.9 -
we wouldn't know because you didn't do what i would do
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the funny thing i think if he wasn't a hit scan power it would naturally slow him down to the point that i think none of his issues would even be present in the first place
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I understand the frustration, but without the landing hits (leap, land, M1) he would be utterly useless.
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No we actually do know what you would do since you keep repeating it. And this is what would happen:
Last response for you.
Sorry bout your situation @MechWarrior3 you really needed a health state, or shack pallet here to do anything. Getting stuck in that corner of the map with Kaneki is never a good spot to be in. Especially if your mid map has no resources.
You ran distance as it was your only option in search of something. Sadly there was nothing. You did everything right here.
Hope you dont run into him more. It is a bit of an annoyance.16 -
and we see with op he also made the wrong decision by running into a deadzone so he made the worse choice in the decision since he just went down and then blamed kaneki
even as a macro decision with the downed player at gallows pallet why didn't he use shack to loop away from the downed player towards the chain saloon loops (not the main building) because you consider a tool that he has available not to be the right one got him downed anyway
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you forgot about the part immediately after where kaneki jumps right after him he should have doubled back to the window
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Then rework him.
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Thank you so much for your words and your diagram! That was pretty neat to look at from a different perspective. It also really helps clear up what is happening in that moment. :D
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Double back? Really? He will down me nearly instantly or as you said, 1.5 seconds. I would have went down either way my guy.
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To sort of weigh in with my own opinions here, I think it is fine to have some grievances with Ghoul's power to some degree. Personally I take issue with how generous the first hit is. Not that it's a free hit but that sometimes the 'way' it hits you just seems ridiculously unfair from the survivors POV. One time I was crouched behind a generator and somehow they still got me with it.
However, what I also want to say is sometimes these downs happen because of misplays earlier in the match that might be completely out of your control. In the saloon clip, yeah he downed you before you could make it anywhere but a lot of killers would get a down there too because the area was a deadzone with both shack and the other close pallet being gone.
This isn't meant to be a dismissive 'lol skill issue' reply since I think it's fair to critique Ghoul's power, but sometimes just because of how a match played out downs like this happen and I wouldn't chalk it completely up to the Killer's power.
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Exactly, dear friend!
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Posts like this make me dread when Springtrap gets released and he's gonna get the same level of hate
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Kaneki has more counterplay than both of those killers. They're also both stronger than him. He got nerfed so bad that they actually reverted his 2nd nerf wave almost completely. While that wasn't the problem in terms of survivor frustrations, it ended up making him feel awful to play and alot weaker since his cooldowns were massive just for breaking a pallet
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It doesn't change my mind on how I view him with what I am experiencing.
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hahaha, the person who told you to drop the pallet on your teammate and to use shack window to…. vault into Kaneki? is calling you low mmr?? Well.. I do enjoy comedy.
Without seeing the rest of the map resources (what you ran past), we can only go off what we can see, and you were in a no win situation. You were probably SOL regardless of the killer, but yes ghoul can catch up way to quick, and everyone knows that whether or not they want to admit it.
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Ill say his catch-up highlights my issues with him and top tier killers.
Too much distance
No cooldown
The person being overly assumptive and rude I wont bother responding to but lets dive into the jungle gym idea with another diagram;
This window is a deadzone, no matter how you play it. The kaneki would have to have their keyboard/mouse/controller just stop working for you to not go down here. Even if you perfectly read the window, without a health state for distance, you die there.
This is another classic example of people thinking 0 macro and all micro. You dont play windows that do nothing for you, and you definitely dont play windows that do nothing for you, closer to your downed/hooked teammates.
Your perk though is the answer. That being DH.
Could have DH'd the pallet and made more distance.
To be fair I think what happened was you were spamming the pallet pull down, and thought you had it. I probably would have thought this as well.
This is a split second decision, I cant backseat game this idea. I would equally try to throw this pallet or deadhard. Sucks that he was just too close.
your comments on blight and Oni, yes you could outplay them on deadzones with their powers.
Blight you can play around his power on terrain, like rocks and such. Same with Oni.
Kaneki is unfortunately just nurse lite™ in this situation.5 -
Please keep conversation and commentary constructive and civil. Thank you!
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Even if you couldn't cancel the leap, you were way out positioned there. There was just bad play on your part, like why did you go that way where there was no pallet? You should have cut over to the window. Hell, even better, you shouldn't have left that pallet so quickly at the beginning. Short loops like that are where this killer really struggles, and you immediately left that area to move to a position where the killer is at their strongest, and expect to not go down?
Also, if you couldn't cancel, then what would the power be? Just swinging around? You need to be able to get hits with the power.
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I do agree that his ability to get free hits is frustrating, but since he cannot down he is basically like looping a mobile M1 killer so I just run him down until he either hits the M1 finally, or he goes to pressure someone else
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I've played the Ghoul a lot and I don't think the hits look right from his POV either. You can injure survivors through certain obects, through windows even after they have started backing away from it, and even when they have already started to fall from a great height. You can get them with the tentacle by aiming on spaces outside their models. So yeah, I do think his free hits are a problem.
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I haven't played him myself yet but yeah not surprising
I hope it's just a bug and not intended behaviour because it's very unfair sometimes. Say what you want about Legion's free hit, at least he has to actually get to you and hit you.
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