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Is wallhack perks fair?

zumer
zumer Member Posts: 359

why does the game have wallhack perks? is this a horror game or what? why can't a survivor play stealth? for killers you encourage different game tactics camp, tunnel, slug and others. why survivors don't have any tactics except genrush?

Comments

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 2,827
    edited May 2025

    It's pretty dumb. Limited aura potential is fine, but there are WAY to many ways to read auras at the moment for both sides. They also said they are buffing keys to essentially have built in aura reading.

    All this does is remove the fun feature of the game on doing mindgames. Guaranteed info shouldn't be so easily accessible.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    To be fair both sides have this. Are Iri Keys with Blood Amber that fair? Not really. Is four aura read Blight fair? Not really. Will BHVR address this? No…

  • DeBecker
    DeBecker Member Posts: 934

    Survivors arent allowed to have variety in their gameplay.

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 15,082

    This Game isnt a pure horror game and hasnt been for most of its existence.

    The Community (Both Killer and survivor side) actively asks for the gameplay to be less Horror and be more action based, and everyone is complaining about stealth only for survivors.

  • zumer
    zumer Member Posts: 359

    However, this makes the gameplay as boring as possible. Neither the survivors nor the killers should see each other. This is contrary to common sense.

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 15,082
    edited May 2025

    the argument is that playing hide-and-seek is boring and direct chases/player vs player interaction is more interesting


    (edit: Not my opinion, I would welcome more Horror, and hide-and-seek gameplay while still denying full hiding without and interactions/objective progression)

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 2,843

    People started to lose game sense by relying on perks, so somehow that's the survivors problem. Taking Distortion you could see how much killers refuse to use their eyes.

    People got upset that they had Lethal countered by 4 Distortion once so they pretended to be concerned for survivors by saying it's in their best interest to nerf it.

    Safe to say, that was a sham. Killers spawn in and immediately bee line you in 5 seconds and there's nothing new players can do about it.

  • zumer
    zumer Member Posts: 359

    maybe bhvr should split perks into categories and disallow choosing more than one perk from a category?

  • PetTheDoggo
    PetTheDoggo Member Posts: 2,022

    Doesn't really work (very difficult for some to decide, where they fit) and sounds boring.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 2,827
    edited May 2025

    @Mooks

    Aura reads harm chase health too, though. It entirely removes the element of mind games in chase and instead just turns them into all having the same ultimate result...you'll be safe for exactly 3 loops and 3 loops only around that pallet, drop, leave. Now you're safe for exactly 2 loops at that pallet, drop, leave. Rinse and repeat.

    It leaves no room for dynamic chases or mindgames when out of sight. It's all essentially predetermined.

  • Khastrx
    Khastrx Member Posts: 250

    Sure, if only so many killers didn't have Killer Instinct which literally has zero counters. Not suggesting it should but aura protection can only do so much…

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,788

    Who cares, no one loves stealth including both survivors and killers

  • Khastrx
    Khastrx Member Posts: 250
    edited May 2025

    But then the devs are regularly adding perks that have stealth and/or deception elements. Make it make sense if no one cares…

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,788
  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 15,082

    no. I mean everyone. Especially fellow survivor players that accuse others of only hiding, wasting time, not taking chase, tanking hits.

    It obviously depends on situation and there is many were the above hurt the Team but it’s gotten to a Point were plenty of survivor players attack others if they decide to do these when it’s actually completely okay to do.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 5,419

    If they remove aura perks for killers, then for sadako I better be completely stealthed. No lullaby, not flickering in and out. lol


    All jokes aside…survivors get intel perks too, why shouldn’t killers?

  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 2,243

    i mean killer instinct for most killers is something that happens after someone gets hit/downed and it's not really a perk

  • zumer
    zumer Member Posts: 359

    Auras are not needed. The whole charm of the game is in their absence.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 5,419

    Well, then remove my lullaby from Sadako. I want to be completely stealthed for the charm of a horror game.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683
    edited May 2025

    Killers are really not allowed variety in their perks either, why do you think generator control/regression/hold is so popular? Because generators can go faster than some Killers can even patrol the map. In fact half the roster has no actual form of a mobility power. Even some with mobility powers can struggle. Generator perks often feel necessary for a Killer player to bring. That's why you always see the same four or five of them over and over.

    Now start questioning why Killer players may feel the need to bring these perks - it's not because they want to make Survivors miserable or just to win, it's because quite often these perks do feel necessary on some Killers especially if you're not as good at them yet. So therefore, no variety for perks, and no variety for Killers either. Nobody gets to have any fun.

    Oh and look. Downvoted for telling the truth again. I will continue to be downvoted for saying things people do not want to hear, whatever helps you all feel better I guess. The truth is still that Killers are just trying to play a game, not make Survivors miserable. No Killer player loads up the game rubbing their hands together going, "I am going to make someone DC tonight!".

    Post edited by LockerLurk on
  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683
    edited May 2025

    I need to address the elephant in the room here: people complaining about parts of a Killer power designed to give info, i.e. Killer Instinct. If it's part of the power, then it's balanced because it's part of the power, and therefore CANNOT be "unfair". Killer powers are designed to be fair. Let's look at when and where some Killers get this, and why:

    • Ghostface gets Killer Instinct whenever he is revealed so he can chase the Survivor that did it. This is because Revealing is part of his counter, and without it Survivors could hide and he'd never know where the person revealing him is. There's even addons that exist to capitalize on being revealed (which means no, it's not a bug or downside pr a problem at all - it's a feature and a good Ghostface will use this feature as a tool; he's supposed to occasionally be revealed).
    • Sadako gets her Killer Instinct when a Survivor nearby is ready to be Mori'd by the Condemn mechanic, particularly when they put a tape in the TV. This is to help guide her to someone she can chase and then reward her if she gets the Down for using her power properly.
    • Dredge gets Killer Instinct during Nightfall whenever someone is close to a locker or their remnant in Nightfall. This helps the Dredge find Survivors they can chase during Nightfall, when they might be more vulnerable, giving them the element of surprise. Killer Instinct is notably not blocked by lockers, so this may be intended to also show when a Survivor is opening or getting into or locking a locker.
    • Legion gets their Killer Instinct during Feral Frenzy to help guide them to Survivors nearby (within TR range) to hit and continue their streak. This is an intended part of their play and meant to eventually reward them with a free one hit down if they manage to chain five (though that's quite rare).
    • Pinhead has Killer Instinct with a special overlay that tells him whenever someone is solving the Box, so he can teleport to it and interrupt it if he wants, either to juggle the Box for a Chain Hunt streak or as information to find a new Survivor. This is the counterplay to the Survivors being able to do the Box.
    • Twins gets Killer Instinct whenever Victor is out and there are any Survivors moving around or in the Dying State within Victor's Lullaby range, which is intended to help them find Survivors for Victor to pounce on or any Survivors that crawled away, since Victor is very tiny and has a low camera.
    • Demogorgon gets Killer Instinct when a Survivor is close to a portal. Pyramid Head gets it when someone walks over his Torment Trail. Both are meant to indicate to the player either where they can find a Survivor to chase, or where someone who can be sent to a Cage of Atonement or Mori'd is.

    So as you can see, Killer Instinct is completely fine and fair, because it's always used as a mechanic to aid the Killer towards getting into new chases or providing some power based benefit or reward. It's not cheap or wallhacks since it only lasts a few seconds, and it's certainly not something unbalanced that needs to be counterable, especially because we all know what Survivors tend to like to do if they cannot shake the Killer in chase themselves - hide and hope for hatch. It is ALWAYS meant to make playing Killer much less frustrating or provide information on who to chase next. It's usually because the Killer does not have a super strong chase power either, or has mobility but no way to tell info while in the mobility option.

    Edit: You can downvote me for this take, but it doesn't make Killer Instinct less fair. A Killer Power that is balanced, and most every Killer is balanced, cannot be inherently unfair. You are not supposed to be hiding from the Killer easily all round, mid chase, or any other time. The Killer is intended to chase you, info helps with that. If Iri Keys with blood amber are fine, so is Killer Instinct.

    Post edited by LockerLurk on
  • terumisan
    terumisan Member Posts: 2,243

    1 i wasn't complaining i was honestly just going to list out killers who could but was too lazy to do it

    2 you missed a couple

    Dracula (wolf form) killer instinct when survivors vault near him

    houndmaster search

    vecna if he downs people with skeletons

    xeno if survivors are close enough to the tunnel entrance are revealed while he's exiting tunnels

    if there are more i'm too lazy to look

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    Also correct. I believe Spirit also gets it if she runs Cherry Blossom. Wasn't trying to go for every Killer that has it though.

  • DeBecker
    DeBecker Member Posts: 934

    Thats just the normal misconception. There is no need to run these perks. The overall majority just does it cause its easy and it makes survivors suffer. Killer have much more variety in their perks than survivors ever had. Both of this is common sense.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    Trapper, Pig, Ghostface, Legion, Clown, Doctor, and all other low tier Killer picks don't need to run these perks at all?

    Do you really think low mobility Killers can win against a team of stronger Survivor players that can coordinate well enough to make gens go by quickly? you TRULY think all Killer players just want Survivor players to suffer?

    … oh no, friend… you think KIllers don't play Survivor too, don't you? You actually think Killer players WANT to hurt people… I'm afraid you're the one with the misconception here. Most Killers only run these perks for three reasons:

    1) Their Killer does not have mobility and they face decent teams often.
    2) They aren't confident at map pressure yet.
    3) They're a setup Killer that may need the extra time to prepare.

    None of those are about making Survivors feel bad. Nobody runs Pain Res to make you feel bad. The game isn't about you.

  • DeBecker
    DeBecker Member Posts: 934
    edited May 2025

    If theyre not confident relying on cheap gameplay doesnt help them improve their skill. So they use them cause its easy, just as i said. Youre just agreeing to me there. You dont need mobility to not play just slowdown. As killer I am Trapper Main and i never had to rely on those slowdown builds, cause I just know what i have to do as trapper. Most killer players have literally no clue on how to play their character properly. So relying on cheap gameplay is the easy way out again. And most people already play S-Tier killers and still use 4 slowdowns to just annoy people. Common sense again.

  • LockerLurk
    LockerLurk Member Posts: 1,683

    While I agree none of these Killers should rely on tunnelling you continue to miss my point. I did not say these Killers have to do this. I said if someone is a weaker Killer player overall, they may feel the need to do this.

    Most people are most certainly not all playing S tiers, go look at the pickrates sometime. There's still pretty high pickrates for Killers that are strong but not S tier (Dracula, Wesker, Huntress, etc.) and the pickrate for a fair few of the lower tiers is also higher than you'd think too. In fact some very strong killers, like Artist and Twins, are hardly ever picked at all… which disproves that claim that "everyone just plays strong Killers".

    You are correct that many Killers don't learn their kits properly, which is why the phrase "weak Killer" is and always has been an oxymoron. No Killer is weak - you just might not know how to play them yet, or effectively. It's not the Killer's kit, it's the player.

  • zumer
    zumer Member Posts: 359
    r.PNG

    Typical The Huntress

    Lethal Pursuer
    Bitter Murmur
    Barbecue & Chili
    Darkness Revealed

    Glowing Concoction

    Do you think it is possible to win such a match? and after this you say that it is fair?