http://dbd.game/killswitch
BHVR’s selective accessibility
today Bhvr made a tweet about keeping the game acccessible by not planning any spider killers for people with arachnophobia, and of course they have been receiving praise online for it, the thing that bothers me is why is arachnophobia given thought and not other phobias or other disabilities. There’s no black option for blinding for epileptics, the rarity color rework made the game 100x less accessible for color blind people and the color blind options we do have are honestly quiere abysmal. HOH people are just screwed when it comes to spirit. If you want to be known as an accessible game then put the work in. I hope you never have to experience the feeling of a game you care deeply for becoming less accessible for you and to have your concerns fall on deaf ears. You say you want new players, I never thought it would exclude those of us with disabilities.
Comments
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Its just their way of saying a spider killer is not in the cards, with the killers they have released over the years I doubt it has anything to do with Phobias. Its a horror game. It should be treated as such. All cards are on the table at this point.
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I agree with this. I had a serious fear of spiders when we lived in AZ and that’s when the movie Arachnophobia came out, that movie amplified it. It isn’t so much now even had a pet tarantula. I do agree with OP that if they will make a statement like that then look at all your killers not just one.
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I am sensitive to light so when someone uses a flashlight it hurts my eyes and dims my vision. I still play and one of the main reasons I use lightborn. I wouldn’t expect them to cater to a weird eye issue.
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There's differences here though. They understood that they couldn't, for some reason, add a dark blind feature. Instead, they put a notice when you load up the game, so epileptic people weren't blindsided.
The rarity color rework is stupid, I agree, but they did it to match other games. Colorblind people shouldn't be struggling with the change because the icons and placements are still the same, and if you are...Nightlight exists. Get the old perk skins back.
HOH people can't play Spirit or against her, and that's just the unfortunate reality of having a sound based killer. And honestly, dbd is just straight up a very sound oriented game, despite all the audio bugs.
So what do we have here?
1- Something BHVR apparently can't do, and gave a warning for instead to keep people safe
2- Something that doesn't affect colorblind people
3- An unavoidable aspect of the game that can't and won't ever change
I mean, your entire post is false equivalences
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rainbow six siege solves this easily by changing the flash bang effect to a black one with a simple toggle
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Console doesn’t have nightlight and you don’t get to say what does and doesn’t affect colorblind people
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Accessibility features in videogames are always selective.. and they didnt specify this was only related tonarachnophobia
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Before Curtain Call was announced the common response from the devs for not having a Clown killer in game was that people with an intense fear of them wouldn't be able to play (the actual reason was Star breeze wouldn't let BHVR), but then they added Clown and literally gave him a perk called Coulrophobia.
Weirdest thing to me is, doesn't the Entity totally kinda already touch on Arachnophobia? I mean, it's a bunch of disembodied appendages that look extremely spider like. They touch on it in the tweet, but like that doesn't really change anything?
Honestly just kinda feels like BHVR just wants a reason to not add a spider killer and maybe snag a few brownie points while announcing it, but idk I feel kinda pompous making a statement like that in confidence.
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Is it possible to have an accessibility discussion without slippery slope fallacies? Asking for a friend.
As someone who is directly impacted by my colorblindness with this game, you're both right yet rude about it. Colorblindness affects every person differently, so issues for one might not be an issue for another. That said, the colorblind mode in the game provides a bare minimum accommodation without sacrificing potential advantages. Personally I think things like selecting the base colors for various auras and blood pools would help someone like myself specifically, but if you started getting into things like luminosity (which objectively helps introduce contrast in many situations where hue is the primary difference) would start to get into an advantage gaining issue. That said, the rarity thing was absolutely stupid and they were warned constantly the moment players found out it was going to be a thing, but they refused to scrap the change and further refuse to give an option to revert them to the previous colors, which comes off as extremely tonedeaf and dismissive about the issue.
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Photophobia isn't a "weird eye issue." In fact it often presents naturally as people age. While most people focus on conditions like epilepsy, people who suffer migraines also tend to be very photophobic.
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this is a sound based game and sound is super important if someone is hard of hearing they might need to play a different game since the heartbeat meter is already really good if they add something that counters spirit phase might be game breaking
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I guess the fear of Clowns is a second class phobia.
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I'm sorry but the sound issues in this game are almost always 100% fixable at all times. Disregarding the ones that are related to bugs (which this game has never had a shortage of, especially in terms of audio,) things like sound balancing of important audio queues have always been a correctable issue, and continue to be so. Even the normalization of survivor volume has been on the table and directly acknowledged for years, with absolutely no followup. Something an amateur could fix in a program like Audacity in an afternoon, maybe two.
The issue many HoH people have with audio in the game is that important information is purposely obfuscated, be it by chase music or gen progress or sound occlusion or anything else. You can go into a game adapting to missing that information and doing your best to go without, but losing someone because the map made no footsteps while they play Ada or Ace and you have to waste extra time using muddied scratch marks to refind them each time LoS gets significantly broken, it starts to become a pretty frustrating thing. Or you're playing vs doctor and the distorted audio makes you miss things like skill check sounds or make it harder to determine the intensity of the chase music. The constant vomiting vs plague making it difficult to hear a nearby fountain (among other issues, for those with emetophobia.) All while the answer is out in the open, but BHVR flat out refuses.
Audio accessibility is 100% an imposed limitation with the game, which is why its an important accessibility issue. It can be fixed, but instead its considered ok for a large number of players to be forced into a disadvantage revolving around a core tracking/awareness sense in the game. They understood the importance when the visual heartbeat actively nerfed stealth killers at the time but rolled it out anyway, so its always baffling why other audio issues always seem to get ignored.
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I hate spiders and honestly that would be amazing to have a spider Killer because this is a Horror game. The Unknown is a great Example to this people hate and love him because he's scary an I heard that people had nightmares after encountering a Unknown but they came back to DBD (Plot Twist that person who had a nightmare of the Unknown was actually me) because of that thrill of being scared.
ITS A DAMN HORROR GAME FOR CRYING OUT LOUD
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They don't need to 'cater' to you, but they could create either for everyone or as a toggle a way to make blinds less BRIGHT… make your screen go black for a few seconds, maybe with a slight reddish tint or something so you know your monitor didn't just fry out, but the brightness that blinds many players IRL too, that isn't 'catering' to us.
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It's weird because they teased a spider creature years ago in the rift.
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I'm all for accessibility, but there should be some lines drawn. And one of them are phobias, especially in a horror game.
I used to be deeply arachnophobic. I would go into panick attacks just by seeing pictures or hearing about spiders. Until I decided it's stupid to let this control me. And I worked on it, learned more and more about spiders and came to love them. Am I still scared about species I know are venomous? Yes. But I don't get dead scared anymore, I just look at them from afar with interest and admiration.
It's for me senseless not to add cool killers because there are phobias related to them. We already have Clown and Plague for example. And I know for a fact I'd be sad if Plague never existed because of emetophobia.
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Yet another bad decision.. People have been begging for a spider killer.. BHVR will kill their own game faster than anyone else will so at the end of the day..who really cares anymore.. Dumb ideas will continue to be pushed by people who just don't get it..
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Yeah.
This game is not accesible at all, and it just got worse with the color changes (which I'll hate even with my dying breath), so accesibility is never the reason behind adding or not adding things.
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and of course they have been receiving praise online for it
This is sarcasm, right?
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nope people have been singing them praises on Twitter for it.
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- I have serious vision problems and playing against Dredge (or on excessively dark maps) is simply a pain. when my eyesight is very tired I put on Ormond or Eyrie of Crows/dead sand to simply rest my eyes. I always thought that playing against Spirit, for those with hearing problems, is something really bad.
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This is incorrect or at least poorly worded from OPs side. BHVR only confirmed that no Spider-Killer is planned for the foreseeable future, but not because of accessibility. They mentioined accessibility since it came into discussion with a spider killer and arachnophobia, but this is not the reason why there is no Spider-Killer.
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I had a friend that quit because of Curtain Call. She came back later but DCd whenever we'd get a clown, that is until they introduced the DC penalty and there she went for good. I would think those spider legs on the hook would be the same thing as a spider, but what do I know. Phobias are weird.
You're right about the brownies. Companies virtue signal all the time, and BHVR isn't any different.
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I have chronic migraines but I have always been sensitive to light. I have zero depth perception and can’t see 3D. I also can’t watch people playing video games or I get sick but playing is ok.
My son is autistic and he can’t play the game as survivor because of all the tunneling and camping.
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BHVR picking and choosing which people’s accessibility issues they care about and which ones they don’t. Very nice
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As long as they don't trigger anyone's anatideaphobia, I think it'll be fine. Could you imagine?
Fear of spiders is something that just locks some people up. Not surprising they won't do it.
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Hey folks! I wanted to pop into this thread to share a little more about yesterday's post that mentioned accessibility. While it was shared in relation to discussions about arachnophobia, the community response has been extremely valuable in highlighting the vast range of folks' experiences. We've used this as an opportunity to listen and share a wide range of accessibility feedback (as well as players' experiences with different phobias) with the team. That includes notes that have been shared in this thread, like alternative forms of blinding effects.
So all that to say, please don't hesitate to continue sharing your feedback and experiences with accessibility - we're here to convey your feedback to the team and will continue to do that!
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W Ryan as always
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I just wish the hearing accessibility enhancements would happen on both sides of the game.
Survivors were given a visual terror radius, but killers still have a sound occlusion system that purposely hides survivor noises when there isn’t any line of sight.
I have the game volume blasting in my ears, at way too high a volume, but what else am I supposed to do when the chase music is so much louder than survivor breathing/grunts of pain/footstep noises?
Sound occlusion and purposely loud chase music, is so very anti-accessibility, and it can be considered a bit of a health hazard, because it encourages players to use a volume setting that might be dangerously high.
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Never has been, they just stated its not currently in the plans - which includes the planned chapters up until next anniversary chapter.
I guess theoretically that Community vote chapter may lead to a Spider still
Survivors were given a visual terror radius, but killers still have a sound occlusion system that purposely hides survivor noises when there isn’t any line of sight.
The Sound occlusion also affects survivors and iirc doesnt affect the audio of the terror radius either
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Honestly, as much as acessibility is important, not wanting to add specific horrifying stuff because of phobias would a bit too much. The main point of horror is to be disturbing in some way and the entire genre is already full of stuff that can cause different forms of phobia. A "phobia" is an intense irrational fear or aversion to something, and horror is entirely based on things that can cause fear. It's no coincidence the game itself already has at least two perks and one achievement with the names of REAL PHOBIAS (coulrophobia, thanatophobia, hemophobia).
Hell, if DbD was really commited to avoid phobia-inducing things, then we wouldn't have the Clown, the Plague, and maybe not even the Dredge. Let's just list a few things in the game that are related to phobias. I understand that most of them are less common, but let's just be reminded how, when it comes to horror, almost everything can be related to some phobia:
Coulrophobia (clowns): there's a clown killer with literally a perk with that name.
Emetophobia (vomitting or seeing others vomit): the Plague (one thing must be pointed out tho, the devs once put a question in a poll about how much her power would impact each players' gameplay experience… but they did so AFTER she had already released and nothing was done about it to this day).
Scotophobia (darkness): the Macmillan State maps used to be quite dark, and now we have the Dredge. I don't know if Nightfall could trigger scotophobia or nyctophobia on people, but I wouldn't be surprised.
Chiroptophobia (bats): Dracula can turn into a small swarm of them, making bat screeches and all.
Hemophobia (blood): there's even an achievement with this name, and even though it's not .
Necrophobia (corpses and things related to death): well, this one is really unavoidable.
Hell, if you want to really go far, there's even Cynophobia (fear of dogs), which is surprisingly common and affects a similar percentage of the world population to aracnophobia, and DbD creates a scenario where a dog is chasing the survivors, biting them, and even attacking them on the ground.
Either way, if we want to give a more constructive feedback here, I believe it should be easier to put spider-related content in the game in a more accessible what it was done to the Clown or the Plague: just make a spider-like being that doesnt'really have the shape of a spider. Come on, that's literally already in the game: the entity's legs coming out of the hook, the Hag's "Black Widow" skin, and even the facehuggers on Nostromo. Facehuggers were always a bit spider-like, but I never heard of them triggering anyone's aracnophobia in either the movies or games. Buuuut of course, I cannot speak for arachnophobes because I am not one. So you know what? I'm going to make another thread asking people about what people would think about a humanoid-ish spider-like killer. Hold on.
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Some feedback that is on my mind. Thanks.
The item and perk colour change is bad. Adds nothing to the game and makes it worse. A toggle would be fine if you don´t want to change it completely back.
Chase music is to loud. Especially since for whatever reason almost all of them now have a very short hammering drum- oder percussion-loop. A slider to make it even a little less loud would be great.
Why the heck can´t we get our NEXT and PREVIOUS buttons back to cycle through chars in the menu. You need much more clicks than before to go through them now. Still feels clunky.
Please consider something different than "Quests". This is so incredible generic and boring. DbD don´t need to copy every other game. Why take some cool mystery out of the game?
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As someone who is actually very sensible to loud noises and is still not sure if that's due to autism or not (I wasn't diagnosed. At least not yet, but heard profesionals say I have quite a few traits), the most triggering noise in the game is the "generator completed" sound effect. It's loud, high-pitched and reminds me of the ringing of a bell. I hurts to hear those even when I'm playing survivor and already know when it's going to pop.
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Sound occlusion affects survivors way less than it affects killers, because if a noise is important to survivors, the game makes sure the survivors can hear those noises.
Did you know Spirit's directional phasing audio used to respect audio occlusion? But people complained that it was unfair they couldn't always hear the audio, so the directional phasing audio was buffed so that it could be easily heard through walls?
And yes, the terror radius noises are another perfect example, where the audio works perfectly through walls, because it's important for survivors to be able to hear important noises.
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But there are directional, occluded noises that affect survivor players especislly against stealth killers..
Terror Radius isnt directional so you shouldnt expect it to be treated the same here
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Fully agree with your post. There needs to be a killer ban system to prevent people from going against killers they hate or literally can't go against.
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If chase music were made much quieter, and sound occlusion were removed from the game, do you honestly think survivors and killers would benefit equally from those changes?
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An auto-run/toggle sprint option for survivors would be amazing 🙏
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no, I am not the one that asked for equal treatment in an asymmetrical game either.
I would welcome these changes for the Killer side, I just think it’s Not really fair to always bring up ‚us vs them‘ for any topic. The terror Radius I just a very specific Feature for the surv side
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I can agree with this. While I feel survivor side has been more accommodated in regards to hearing issues (big part of why I play majority survivor,) there are still multiple issue on their side as well. Accessibility especially shouldn't be an us vs them topic, its not about pulling each other down as much as it is making sure everyone is taken care of.
Regarding phobias, the issue is in psychosomatic responses, which often come hand in hand with many phobias. Its not as much about fear as your body literally tricking you into believing involuntary sensations. There's a very big difference between even deep psychological horror and physically getting ill, or even true Fight/Flight/Freeze/Fawn responses. Few people who advocate for further phobias being excluded from the game think that the ones already there should be ignored, in fact they could (and should) be fixed the same as other accessibility issues.
Since it is too late as they are already in the game, accommodations would have to involve removing/swapping assets in a voluntary (specifically end user focused) censorship fashion (A setting to force the clown to use an appearance that does not represent a clown specifically, muting vomiting/giving it disassociated visual representation with an unnatural appearance like rainbow vomit, etc.) If you add another common phobia to the mix just because the other mistakes were made in the past, you're putting preference and/or spite before accessibility. There is far more feedback about how phobias do/have affect(ed) players in the community, so we have more data on the subject than we did when Clown was released. Obviously its mostly anecdotal feedback, but people have voiced their difficulties on these topics compared to before they were implemented.
The most important thing that a lot of people need to understand about how a lot of these issues affect players isn't about fear specifically, its about everything that comes with it turning it into a disproportionately negative experience, as opposed to being a "thrill" with no direct consequence. One of the most important aspects of appreciating horror is that it is always in a safe environment, thats why even cortisol can be welcomed in the right circumstances. Thats something that people should always be able to expect from their games, and a complaint that shouldn't really be ignored.
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thank you so much for this explanation! People have a hard time distinguishing between a phobia and being just afraid of something specifically and i think you worded it very well (better than I ever could).
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colorblind people have been yelling about the changes with rarity since they were introduced and the team hasn’t done anything about it.
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